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SedanChair posted:But the precious bodily integrity of my corpse. In some cultures, the integrity of the corpse is extremely important. Shame on you.
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Apr 3, 2015 20:11
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dogcrash truther posted:In some cultures, the integrity of the corpse is extremely important. Shame on you. In some cultures, wives leaping onto the burning funeral pyre of their husbands is extremely important; however, I don't give a poo poo.
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Apr 3, 2015 20:19
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How about a compromise? Only people who have committed to donate their organs already are eligible to be organ recipients.
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Apr 3, 2015 20:23
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SedanChair posted:In some cultures, wives leaping onto the burning funeral pyre of their husbands is extremely important; however, I don't give a poo poo. I wonder what the cultural appropriation thread would have to say about that. You are literally stealing organs from the culture. b0lt posted:How about a compromise? Only people who have committed to donate their organs already are eligible to be organ recipients. I like this one too, but lol like that would ever happen. Also it would unfeasible because there is no such thing as an "emergency organ transplant," so you could always just commit to organ donation when you suddenly need a kidney or whatever.
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Apr 3, 2015 20:24
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Powercrazy posted:Also it would unfeasible because there is no such thing as an "emergency organ transplant," so you could always just commit to organ donation when you suddenly need a kidney or whatever. Add a vesting schedule for your organ donation so that you need to have been registered to donate an organ for some number of years before you can get an organ.
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Apr 3, 2015 20:30
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I see. I guess discriminating against African Americans in terms of who gets a donor kidney or not make sense then, since they're genetically predisposed to ruin perfectly good kidneys. Er... that's a very weird thing to say. They represent a larger portion of the waiting list because they're more likely to have kidney disease than other populations. Whether they're actually being discriminated against, as evaluated by the distribution of compatible kidneys between them and other races relative to the proportion of the waiting list they represent, is a different one.
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Apr 3, 2015 20:30
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Powercrazy posted:I wonder what the cultural appropriation thread would have to say about that. You are literally stealing organs from the culture. The organs belong to dead people, there would be no theft. I once interviewed at a program that sources corneas. They have a 24/7 staff of workers whose job it is to comb through hospital intake data, call grieving family members immediately after death and try to convince them to give up their deceased loved ones' eyes. This should not be necessary. The need for organs outweighs the need for cultural sensitivity in this case. I would be willing to tolerate religious exemptions with considerable hoops to jump through.
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Apr 3, 2015 20:57
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SedanChair posted:The organs belong to dead people, there would be no theft. I think most religious officials are on board with donation too so it's not a good excuse.
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Apr 3, 2015 21:49
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ReidRansom posted:No, that's what family does. For all his faults, they still loved him and were in his corner wanting him to live and get a second chance. That doesn't make them bad people. A lot of people hosed up in a lot of ways in this, including maybe the family, but not for that reason. It makes them bad people because of the end result, not because of their motivations. Good intentions and all that. Someone else could have gotten the heart, instead it was wasted (and probably destroyed in the crash), so you have two dead people. One that deserved to croak long ago and another that could have received the heart and lived. That, along with all of the race-bating shenanigans by the family to manipulate the hospital into performing the transplant, makes them bad people.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:36
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Zeno-25 posted:It makes them bad people because of the end result, not because of their motivations. Good intentions and all that. The hospital might have been afraid of accusations of racism, and there might have been members of the public playing the race card, but I don't see any evidence that the family actually did. The family contact the media, media makes some news, hospital immediately capitulates. Where was the race baiting?
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Apr 3, 2015 22:49
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esquilax posted:Where was the race baiting? Black people complaining publicly about possible discrimination = race baiting The parents are at fault for not letting their teenage thug die of a heart defect. Shame on them. e: None of the original stories say that the family claimed race was a factor, only his grades and juvie record. Anyone talking about race or race-baiting is retroactively trying to make this a racial issue. boner confessor fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Apr 3, 2015 |
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Apr 3, 2015 22:50
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Black people complaining publicly about possible discrimination = race baiting My point was I didn't see any examples of the family members complaining about possible discrimination
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Apr 3, 2015 22:52
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Black people complaining publicly about possible discrimination = race baiting The hospital is at fault for giving someone otherwise unqualified to receive an organ donation priority on the list, at the cost of a compliant individual's health. You want organ donation priority? Comply with doctor's orders and don't get arrested.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:52
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My Imaginary GF posted:The hospital is at fault for giving someone otherwise unqualified to receive an organ donation priority on the list, at the cost of a compliant individual's health. Agreed, there should be a citizenship test for getting an organ. It could look like this: 
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Apr 3, 2015 22:56
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My Imaginary GF posted:The hospital is at fault for giving someone otherwise unqualified to receive an organ donation priority on the list, at the cost of a compliant individual's health. I am so going to submit all of your SA lasagna foodporn posts when I hear you're on the heart transplant list.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:56
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My kid could go on a shooting spree and kill 10 people, and I'd still be sitting behind him at his trial. Going after his family for their role seems a bit strange.
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Apr 3, 2015 23:05
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Zeno-25 posted:It makes them bad people because of the end result, not because of their motivations. Good intentions and all that. How new and incredible, it seems that families should now take the objective worth of their own family members' lives into consideration compared to the entire rest of the human race before bothering to try and save their lives. If this had been a school shooter with a history of mental disturbance, you would not have said a peep. You would not have thought to blame the parents for choosing to advocate for their son's life. You would have said "these things happen." And there is no sense in you saying "no I wouldn't have" because you don't know your own mind.
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Apr 3, 2015 23:40
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b0lt posted:How about a compromise? Only people who have committed to donate their organs already are eligible to be organ recipients. Can organs be donated twice? Like say if I got a new liver because my old one was wrecked in an industrial accident or something that wasn't my direct fault (i.e. I wasn't Mickey Mantle), could I "pass it forward" when I died?
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Apr 3, 2015 23:40
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Teenage delinquency is not sufficient grounds for a death sentence, despite what racists might believe. Organ scarcity and non-compliance adds a complex and uncomfortable dimension to the issue, but I'm honestly baffled that somebody could be so utterly without basic compassion to fault the kid's parents for trying to save his life. The guy wasn't some sort of spree killer or patient zero of the Hyper-Ebola Outbreak of 2018. He was just belligerent child with some violent tendencies. People are known to grow out of that, or to be continually excused of that until they reach public office, if they're lucky. The hospital in question made a logical decision, but so did the parents. There's nobody at fault here except for the kid, who I am comfortable saying should not have been behaving so recklessly after the transplant, but even then I would be hesitant to rake him over the coals too harshly because 18 is still in "not fully neurologically developed" territory. Don't call his family bad people for mistakes they had no idea he would make.
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Apr 3, 2015 23:59
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e: ^^the parents share zero blame for getting him a new heart, I would expect nothing less for them to go to every length to save his life (though what the gently caress were they doing when he posted himself posing with a gun on goddamn facebook? That requires some degree of being absent)Zeno-25 posted:It makes them bad people because of the end result, not because of their motivations. Good intentions and all that. being hung up on the idea of Stokes "deserving" to die just makes you sound like a bigoted old man. its not remotely about whether or not Stokes having a history of criminal behavior made him scum, and scum dont deserve new hearts or something. It's just about when you choose who lives or dies, you ought to choose the person who's likely to live for the longer period of time. Stokes's history implied a degree of self-destructive behavior that carries a significant risk of early death. The people who claimed discrimination against Stokes share blame for the heart going to waste, but everyone posting about a thug wasting a second chance are just revealing their own bigotry. (Though loving seriously, where the gently caress were the people that worked themselves into a furor to get Stokes on the transfer list when he needed help after he got the heart to change his living situation? It smacks of Republicans being obsessed about the life of an unborn fetus, but the moment it passes through the birth canal it can get hosed) A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Apr 4, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 00:03
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Dazzling Addar posted:Teenage delinquency is not sufficient grounds for a death sentence, "Death sentence" is a really dishonest way to frame the issue. Organ transplants are a matter of triage. There simply are not enough viable organs to go around, and some people will not get the organs they need to survive. You might as well call it "genocide." It would be about as accurate.
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Apr 4, 2015 00:09
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Can organs be donated twice? Like say if I got a new liver because my old one was wrecked in an industrial accident or something that wasn't my direct fault (i.e. I wasn't Mickey Mantle), could I "pass it forward" when I died? As far as I know it depends on the organ, but the trauma imposed by repeated surgery and the effects from medicinal regimes would probably make it a poor candidate. Dazzling Addar posted:Teenage delinquency is not sufficient grounds for a death sentence Deprioritizing someone from a transplant list is not a death sentence, in the same way that rejecting a patient from a medical trial is not a death sentence. Doctors do the best they can, but selecting the best candidates for a scarce treatment is triage, not execution. Or else those doctors become equally responsible for "murdering" the nameless heart patient that could have used Stokes' heart but was lower on the priority list. A big flaming stink posted:The people who claimed discrimination against Stokes share blame for the heart going to waste, but everyone posting about a thug wasting a second chance are just revealing their own bigotry. (Though loving seriously, where the gently caress were the people that worked themselves into a furor to get Stokes on the transfer list when he needed help after he got the heart to change his living situation? It smacks of Republicans being obsessed about the life of an unborn fetus, but the moment it passes through the birth canal it can get hosed) According to the Christian advocacy group that spearheaded the effort to get him his heart, they connected him with a mentoring organization but lost direct contact after the surgery was successful. Unless you expect them to perform constant oversight for years afterward, it sounds to me like they did their due diligence. I mean it's not like Stokes was wandering down the hospital corridors with a gun in hand stealing clipboards - regardless of his actions outside of the medical environment, I'm sure he was just a normal patient while under their care. Certainly if I was in charge of their organization, I'd have thought that resources would be better spent helping other people in need, rather than babysitting one person for political reasons. Kaal fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Apr 4, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 00:16
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tsa posted:You just really don't understand the concept of scarcity do you? This isn't a problem you can just throw money at and fix, there needs to be times you say "no" to a young kid so another young kid with a better chance for a good outcome gets a "yes". That's why we have medical boards and why it was bad they gave in to activism over what they knew was the best choice. This is pretty much my stance, too. If you take race away from the equation, he doesn't get the heart. So, anyone claiming racism is a moron. Race and white guilt was actually the only reason he got a second chance to start with.
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Apr 4, 2015 00:34
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Yeah, if that kid were white, his parents would never have contacted anyone. I'm sure they would have been like "gently caress him, that white Christian cishet shitlord is tainted with the blood of slaves." White people never get organs after a huge public campaign, when will the discrimination end 
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Apr 4, 2015 02:28
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L-Boned posted:So, anyone claiming racism is a moron. Race and white guilt was actually the only reason he got a second chance to start with. I love it when idiot goons own themselves. "It's not about race you morons! He only got the heart because he was black!" 
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Apr 4, 2015 02:47
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So we're actually at the point where we're whining about saving lives now? Viva la muerte, motherfuckers.
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Apr 4, 2015 02:49
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Effectronica posted:So we're actually at the point where we're whining about saving lives now? Viva la muerte, motherfuckers. "If you heal a negro, are you really saving a life?" -Hundreds of goons
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Apr 4, 2015 02:51
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Effectronica posted:So we're actually at the point where we're whining about saving lives now? Viva la muerte, motherfuckers.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:00
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tumblr.txt posted:I'd rather the heart went to someone who wasn't on the path to being a violent criminal. Until we have an infinite heart cloning machine we have to pick the most worthy recipients. Viva la muerte.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:08
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Popular Thug Drink posted:I love it when idiot goons own themselves. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, I see. Obviously, everyone else saw my point that was if you just went by qualified recipients, there was no way that kid was getting the heart.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:13
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Neither would that 10-year-old girl have gotten lungs, but the parents of only one of the children are accused of race-baiting. Hmmmmmm...
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Apr 4, 2015 03:19
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Effectronica posted:Viva la muerte.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:20
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tumblr.txt posted:Do you not understand that there are only so many organs to go around? It's not like anyone is watching the kid die and cackling manically. Frankly, it's pretty clear that, carjacking and all, this kid deserved his new heart more than you would deserve blood transfusions. But long live death, motherfuckers.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:23
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People aren't cackling maniacally over this kid's death, no. This thread is more about smug little smiles, quiet satisfaction, and knowing nods.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:24
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When you think about it, there's only so many bandages to go around...
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Apr 4, 2015 03:25
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I wonder how valid the compliance concerns were to begin with, since empirically doctors assume that black patients are less likely to be compliant with treatment guidelines than white patients. Anyway, thread bad.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:27
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VitalSigns posted:Neither would that 10-year-old girl have gotten lungs, but the parents of only one of the children are accused of race-baiting. Time will tell if that was a good idea either.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:30
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 so the hospital made the right call from the beginning. It's almost as if we should let medical professionals do their job, instead of having religious advocacy groups pressure them into doing dumb things. Crazy thought.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:31
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ReidRansom posted:Time will tell if that was a good idea either. It will. Want to bet on how many people will come out of the woodwork calling her parents race-hustlers if it goes bad?
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Apr 4, 2015 03:34
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VitalSigns posted:It will. Oh, none, I have no doubt.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:35
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