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Sakurazuka posted:Are we supposed to know what's going on with Yukino yet? I don't know. She's a really anime character, so maybe it's something like she's hiding that she has to go overseas or something equally dumb.
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May 8, 2015 16:25
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Seemed more like it was specifically to do with how he handled the student council thing last episode.
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May 8, 2015 16:28
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I think she's seemed off since the school trip and seems to be getting worse, like it's a combination of things. I dunno.
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May 8, 2015 16:31
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I think the idea is that she really did want to be student council president, if only because of the taunting of her sister, or maybe Meguri's machinations, and Hachiman took that path away from her. Since of course she can't possibly just admit that and run for president anyway. The little speech at the end of the previous episode was about how some people only act when given a reason to. Being asked to help out the position that she was supposed to be in herself just opens up that old wound, which Hachiman noticed and tried to mitigate by keeping her uninvolved. Clarste fucked around with this message at 16:34 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 16:31
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Clarste posted:I think the idea is that she really did want to be student council president, if only because of the taunting of her sister, or maybe Meguri's machinations, and Hachiman took that path away from her. Since of course she can't possibly just admit that and run for president anyway. The little speech at the end of the previous episode was about how some people only act when given a reason to. This makes sense but I thought she didn't want to be president. Her sister was just messing with her. E: Update quote for politeness.
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May 8, 2015 16:34
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Well, maybe "want" is a strong word, but she feels she'd be better suited for it and is letting people down. Anyway, that's the impression I get of what this whole conflict is about. Hachiman's methods last time didn't explicitly hurt anyone, but they still have consequences.
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May 8, 2015 16:40
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The_Frag_Man posted:This makes sense but I thought she didn't want to be president. Her sister was just messing with her. That's what Hikigaya thought, too, which is why this blindsided him; he realized in hindsight that Yukino knew a strange amount about the duties of Student Council President and how to run even before she seemed to make the decision.
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May 8, 2015 16:41
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Einander posted:That's what Hikigaya thought, too, which is why this blindsided him; he realized in hindsight that Yukino knew a strange amount about the duties of Student Council President and how to run even before she seemed to make the decision. I thought that's because she's helped out the Council before or was on some other Council or something (can't remember the details now). If she really did want to run, then this makes me like her even less because she's so gutless.
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May 8, 2015 16:49
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Her hypocrisy is the whole point of her character, isn't it?
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May 8, 2015 16:52
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Clarste posted:Her hypocrisy is the whole point of her character, isn't it? Is it? I don't know. (I'm not good at this).
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May 8, 2015 16:55
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The_Frag_Man posted:Is it? I don't know. (I'm not good at this). Well, it was the theme of the last arc of the previous season. In fact, the exact same thing happened: she didn't volunteer for the festival committee but ended up taking it over anyway. She's basically equal and opposite to Hachiman. Her reasoning is different, but they both have a wall of pride that supports their self-esteem yet at the same time limits their actions a lot. Neither of them can ever do what they really want to do, because admitting to themselves that they actually want would tear down that wall. Heck, they were mirrored in the previous episode with Komachi giving Hachiman a superficial reason to do what he wanted. Haruno was doing the same thing for her sibling: her provocation provided a reason for Yukino to act.
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May 8, 2015 17:05
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The_Frag_Man posted:This makes sense but I thought she didn't want to be president. Her sister was just messing with her. She wants to live up to people's expectations - especially her sister's - but she recognizes that people manipulate her for their own benefit or expect unreasonable things from her. Despite that, she still wants to live up to expectations. Here and there the show has also given us hints that she has ambitions of her own, aside from what people expect from her - but because she's drowning in all these expectations and the stereotypes people apply to her (capable, just like her big sister, etc) it's impossible to separate chasing her goals from doing what other people want her to do. Spoilering since hey, lots of recent episode poo poo: The student council president campaign was a natural place for that arc to become a mess because it was a situation where she was being asked to do something she probably wanted to do anyway. People expected her to run (her sister certainly did, at least) and she's the type of character that classmates will assume would be a good student council president. It ceases to be a choice and is basically just inertia. Assuming I'm interpreting this right, that's why Yui decided to run and part of why Hachiman decided to run: All they could see is outside expectations & pressure causing Yukino to run because that would solve everything. They couldn't know she was actually interested because she never communicated that to them. (To me, the saddest part of this arc and the last arc is the fact that NONE of the three main characters realized they could chase after the ideal solution that was presented in the end sequence of the previous episode. None of them properly understand each other and they don't communicate well enough for an idea like that to seem viable.) This arc will probably go to some good places, since it creates space for Hachiman to have some character growth, and he's seeing the direct consequences of how he 'solved' the problem last time. This episode also shows us that Hayato's social group is basically destroyed, despite the fact that Hachiman 'saved' it before. Kaelan Zero fucked around with this message at 19:35 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 19:28
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Kaelan Zero posted:This episode also shows us that Hayato's social group is basically destroyed, despite the fact that Hachiman 'saved' it before. Er... is it? I don't think we saw enough of that to get a clear picture. Ebina's busy, but that's presumably just Comiket since it overlaps with Christmas (ie: nerd Christmas), and Hayato himself is just a bit more distant because he's probably thinking about Hachiman.
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May 8, 2015 19:38
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Clarste posted:Hayato himself is just a bit more distant because he's probably thinking about Hachiman. 
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May 8, 2015 19:40
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I mean, Hachiman is clearly gay and the entire show is about him coming to terms with it by accepting Hayato's love. Isn't that obvious? Why else would they have so many jokes about the guy who looks like a girl?
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May 8, 2015 19:43
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Clarste posted:I mean, Hachiman is clearly gay and the entire show is about him coming to terms with it by accepting Hayato's love. Isn't that obvious? Why else would they have so many jokes about the guy who looks like a girl? Finally some meaningful critique of the show.
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May 8, 2015 20:14
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Clarste posted:Why else would they have so many jokes about the guy who looks like a girl? This story wouldn't be nearly as interesting if they all joined the student council like the outgoing student council president dreamed of. A couple things: 1. Hachiman is now building his harem up even further. 2. We get to see (as Kaelan Zero mentioned) additional Hachiman growth. I do wish they'd spell things out for me though. Either the language barrier is getting to me, or the writers are just too obscure with things, or I'm just not that smart, but I'm still not sure I understand all the reasons for things. I'm still wondering what Haruno meant when she said "I've learned what I wanted to learn tonight...." a few episodes ago. What did she learn? Did Hina Ebina indicate to Hachiman after the botched confession incident that she might be amenable to a relationship with Hachiman himself even though she generally wasn't interested in any relationships because she considers herself a bad girl? I'm not sure I understood that either.
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May 8, 2015 21:34
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Part of the charm of the show is that things aren't explicitly spelled out and you do have to work out what people are thinking. Though in Haruno's case it's because she's The Joker.
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May 8, 2015 21:55
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Dan7el posted:Did Hina Ebina indicate to Hachiman after the botched confession incident that she might be amenable to a relationship with Hachiman himself even though she generally wasn't interested in any relationships because she considers herself a bad girl? I'm not sure I understood that either. Yeah she did. He realized that and indirectly turned her down.
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May 8, 2015 22:26
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Sakurazuka posted:Part of the charm of the show is that things aren't explicitly spelled out and you do have to work out what people are thinking. Definitely, and I enjoy reading everyone's take on it as well.
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May 8, 2015 22:34
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The_Frag_Man posted:Yeah she did. He realized that and indirectly turned her down. His rejection might just be an extension of his defensiveness but you can view it as a subtle indication of character growth - he doesn't want to give up (yet, at least). In retrospect Ebina's conversation and a few other things were obvious red flags that things had ended really poorly there, and in this episode we get the first direct acknowledgement of that - everyone seemed okay with the status quo being maintained, but in reality it had been completely destroyed. Ebina and Tobe and the others believed they had put their relationships in stasis but a bunch of damage was done behind the scenes. Hachiman comments on this when observing the group, and you can tell from some of the other glimpses of the group (and Yui's behavior in general) that things are not okay. Hayato's group and Yukino/Yui/Hachiman share a core problem: dishonesty. Everyone hides their true feelings, so they're afraid to show vulnerability only to have a friend turn on them. The way Hayato's group keeps pulling in Yui/Yukino/Hachiman is illustrative here, because they feel 'safe' being vulnerable to outsiders - it doesn't jeopardize the wall between them and their friends. Then for Hachiman we have a parallel - he pulls in all sorts of outsiders (people the club has helped) to ask for advice on how to deal with the club, because he can't be open with Yui or Yukino. At this point in a sad fashion I think a happy ending for S2 would be as simple as Hachiman looking Yui or Yukino in the face and saying 'I'm sorry', or characters otherwise being honest with each other. All the other arcs could remain unresolved. (I'm hoping for it to go interesting places, though!) Overall the way this show hinges on relationship dynamics makes it engaging for me. The school stuff is set dressing; all the dynamics feel familiar from my childhood, personally, but I've observed most of them in workplaces & my friend circles as an adult. You build your life around validation or get used to being dishonest with everyone and that sticks with you...
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May 8, 2015 22:47
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Kaelan Zero posted:The way I interpreted that conversation is that she views herself as irredeemable and views him the same way, so she thinks they're compatible as a result of that - they'd be on even footing and would view each other as equals. This was my interpretation as well. I don't think that it's fair to call that settling though.
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May 8, 2015 23:03
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i want to synergize the other student council to death
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May 8, 2015 23:52
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Davincie posted:i want to synergize the other student council to death let's engage in a group-think brainstorming session so that we can quantify the means in which to bring an end to the other student council.
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May 8, 2015 23:56
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Davincie posted:i want to synergize the other student council to death This episode did a really good job of reminding me how much I hate that word.
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May 8, 2015 23:59
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That student council was rough, but Hachiman came through as usual with some great responses. His imitation of the student council girl is amazing too.Clarste posted:I mean, Hachiman is clearly gay and the entire show is about him coming to terms with it by accepting Hayato's love. Isn't that obvious? Why else would they have so many jokes about the guy who looks like a girl? 
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May 9, 2015 01:30
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Okay, so the other school they have to work with is a bunch of business school ideas guys who make their group do all the work, their President just kind of rolls over and accepts everything, and they have no confidence or trust in their President to actually address their concerns so they never bring it up. Furthermore, the President is actually clever and aware enough to know all this, but is trapped by the persona she has built around herself to get people to like her which prevents her from actually doing anything effective. Yeah this student council is screwed, good job Hachiman.
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May 9, 2015 02:35
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paragon1 posted:Okay, so the other school they have to work with is a bunch of business school ideas guys who make their group do all the work, their President just kind of rolls over and accepts everything, and they have no confidence or trust in their President to actually address their concerns so they never bring it up. Furthermore, the President is actually clever and aware enough to know all this, but is trapped by the persona she has built around herself to get people to like her which prevents her from actually doing anything effective. And yes, 8man really hosed himself over with the StudCo President solution.
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May 9, 2015 03:34
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It may be a cultural barrier issue but the whole "don't sacrifice yourself because it hurts the people who care about you" thing really falls flat for me. You see this a lot in other anime too but it makes more sense when the character is an angsty lone wolf who constantly rushes head first into life or death situations. Here, the stakes are practically meaningless. To use a made up example to illustrate, say you had some obnoxious person hanging out at a party that no one wanted there so you took it upon yourself to tell them as much. In an anime, the room would go quiet and everyone would get awkward and suddenly the party would end because no one was comfortable anymore. Then the heroine would tearfully remonstrate you for making yourself the bad guy. In real life, the party would be quiet for a second and then start back up again and your buddy would come over and be like "thanks, that was awkward, here's a beer" and then no one would give a poo poo anymore.
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May 9, 2015 05:34
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Your analogy is misleading. Hayato is the guy who talks to the obnoxious person at the party. Hikigaya is the obnoxious person himself. What he's sacrificing is his reputation. And being the friend of "that rear end in a top hat who ruined the party" must be pretty awkward too.
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May 9, 2015 05:41
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The instances are meaningless in and of themselves. The audience doesn't really care what Hikigaya's exact status is with the rest of the class, as Hiki doesn't either (it's rarely brought up beyond "people don't really like me" and instances of specific individuals). OreGairu isn't really primarily a romance either, so while the feelings of the girls are narratively important, they're not the primary currency the story trades in either. Rather, the point is growing up with that mindset is hilariously unhealthy and liable to send you spiralling into depression as you get older and interpersonal relationships get increasingly important/serious. The "stakes" at risk are Hikigaya going through highschool and becoming set in his ways, almost certainly leading to a sad and disappointing life with periodic flashbacks of regrets of things he failed to do in highschool (much as we get periodic reminders about his failures in middle school). The stakes of individual events are generally measured by how much they pull Hiki towards or away from that ultimate destiny.
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May 9, 2015 06:25
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Crunchyroll is kind of dropping the ball on context lately... Yukino's line at the end last time was very probably wrong, but the way they translated Iroha's line about why she wasn't asking Hayato for help (after Hikigaya's "wow that's admirable" reaction to the first part of that) is "translated completely devoid of context" levels of wrong. That's kind of worrying! Might be best to stick to Commie if this keeps up. Edit: They're also making some of Tamanawa's lines at the meeting so straightforward that he sounds like a moron instead of a bullshitter. Also misheard "flash idea" as "fresh idea." Commie's translation isn't perfect either (and some choices, like "foxy" or "preach it," get the point across but are kind of cringe-worthy), but they seem to be doing a generally better job. Einander fucked around with this message at 08:09 on May 9, 2015 |
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May 9, 2015 07:49
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Davincie posted:i want to synergize the other student council to death organism posted:It may be a cultural barrier issue but the whole "don't sacrifice yourself because it hurts the people who care about you" thing really falls flat for me. You see this a lot in other anime too but it makes more sense when the character is an angsty lone wolf who constantly rushes head first into life or death situations. Here, the stakes are practically meaningless. To use a made up example to illustrate, say you had some obnoxious person hanging out at a party that no one wanted there so you took it upon yourself to tell them as much. In an anime, the room would go quiet and everyone would get awkward and suddenly the party would end because no one was comfortable anymore. Then the heroine would tearfully remonstrate you for making yourself the bad guy. In real life, the party would be quiet for a second and then start back up again and your buddy would come over and be like "thanks, that was awkward, here's a beer" and then no one would give a poo poo anymore.
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May 9, 2015 09:12
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Classy Hydra posted:Rather, the point is growing up with that mindset is hilariously unhealthy and liable to send you spiralling into depression as you get older and interpersonal relationships get increasingly important/serious. The "stakes" at risk are Hikigaya going through highschool and becoming set in his ways, almost certainly leading to a sad and disappointing life with periodic flashbacks of regrets of things he failed to do in highschool (much as we get periodic reminders about his failures in middle school). The stakes of individual events are generally measured by how much they pull Hiki towards or away from that ultimate destiny. 
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May 9, 2015 10:08
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Is Iroha even aware that she's being saddled with ALL of the work and responsibilities? Everyone else seem to be. I... don't like this plotline at all. It's just a bunch of pretentious assholes and a, seemingly, very predictable outcome. Yeah...
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May 9, 2015 10:19
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Poil posted:Is Iroha even aware that she's being saddled with ALL of the work and responsibilities? Everyone else seem to be. She is, she just doesn't know how to do anything about it without breaking kayfabe. At least I think that's the case.
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May 9, 2015 11:35
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Poil posted:Is Iroha even aware that she's being saddled with ALL of the work and responsibilities? Everyone else seem to be.
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May 9, 2015 14:12
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I see that Orimoto is still a bitch. Carry on Hikki, carry on. 
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May 9, 2015 14:17
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Coaaab posted:What do you mean by predictable?  Well like they'll get swamped with work and the service club gets involved in the end anyway and they manage to pull through yet again. I can't describe it well at all but it'd be more interesting to have it all fail despite their best efforts for a change.
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May 9, 2015 14:35
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Razzled posted:I see that Orimoto is still a bitch. I dunno. She intentionally sought out to talk to Hikki twice now, and unlike on the double date we can't assume she's making fun of him for social points. I actually think she legitimately considers him an acquaintance.
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May 9, 2015 20:19
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