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Obdicut posted:As I said, get it from the library or get the 2nd edition which is literally $.01. Links please? Since you're such an expert on where to get it why don't you actually help someone out instead of being a smug prick about it?
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Apr 14, 2015 23:29
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Typo posted:They shall henceforce be defined as the "Western United States Empire" and the "Eastern United States Empire". Now you're thinking. Hitlers Gay Secret posted:So what if some states would reenact Jim Crow laws. You don't have to live there. I think you'll find that the south will become quite unlivable after the north uses its nuke stockpiles to turn it into an apocalyptic wasteland.
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Apr 14, 2015 23:31
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Lotka Volterra posted:I think you'll find that the south will become quite unlivable after the north uses its nuke stockpiles to turn it into an apocalyptic wasteland. Good. gently caress the south. 
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Apr 14, 2015 23:33
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Lotka Volterra posted:I think you'll find that the south will become quite unlivable after the north uses its nuke stockpiles to turn it into an apocalyptic wasteland. *wants to nuke a shitload of black people* *thinks of self as racially progressive*
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Apr 14, 2015 23:33
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"Once we've carpetbombed South Africa and killed all the racists, the remainder of the populace should gladly thank us for freeing them of their horrible condition"
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Apr 14, 2015 23:34
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Obdicut posted:May I suggest that instead of reading random poo poo, you read a well-written text on the subject, like the one I provided for you above? I choose not to. If you'd like my reasoning, you might find it in the untranslated "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" or maybe "The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire" series
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Apr 14, 2015 23:34
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Popular Thug Drink posted:*wants to nuke a shitload of black people* Are some posters so far through the looking glass that they cannot even recognize a joke? The answer is yes.
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Apr 14, 2015 23:35
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Locke Dunnegan posted:I choose not to. centristwhining.txt
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Apr 14, 2015 23:36
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Links please? Since you're such an expert on where to get it why don't you actually help someone out instead of being a smug prick about it? You really don't need to be an expert to type "give me liberty textbook 2nd edition" into amazon, but here you go: http://www.amazon.com/Give-Liberty-...ook+2nd+edition poo poo volume 1 costs .98 cents. What a rip. You're pretty good at angrily demanding things be spoon-fed to you. There's probably some line of work that values that, you should look into it.
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Apr 14, 2015 23:37
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Lotka Volterra posted:Are some posters so far through the looking glass that they cannot even recognize a joke? 
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Apr 14, 2015 23:46
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Obdicut posted:You're pretty good at angrily demanding things be spoon-fed to you. There's probably some line of work that values that, you should look into it. All the loud mouths have those jobs sadly. And they're better at demanding they keep their jobs. 
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Apr 14, 2015 23:47
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I honestly don't even know what to say to this. Use tone better? idk
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Apr 14, 2015 23:51
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Locke Dunnegan posted:I choose not to. If you'd like my reasoning, you might find it in the untranslated "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" or maybe "The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire" series  Why won't anyone take my ideas seriously?Oh no thanks, I don't want to read any history about what was happening in the country when it was run like I want. Articles of Confederation, is that a new reality show?
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Apr 14, 2015 23:54
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Locke Dunnegan posted:I choose not to. If you'd like my reasoning, you might find it in the untranslated "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" or maybe "The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire" series Are you saying you cannot read English? Or that understanding American history is grossly unrelated to talking about American politics? Your post doesn't really make much sense.
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Apr 14, 2015 23:58
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Edit: count this as a reply to the last two posts too. Now that's efficiency! Obdicut posted:You really don't need to be an expert to type "give me liberty textbook 2nd edition" into amazon, but here you go: No one is coming up to you out of the blue and demanding anything. You are holding your own input in discussion hostage until someone takes the time to find, acquire, and read an entire textbook, but you are missing the part where no one gives a gently caress what you think when you pull stupid poo poo like that. There's only a certain amount of acceptance in asking someone to read up on something so you can have a discussion with common knowledge, and an entire physical textbook is a bit past that point when the discussion is the vitriolic clusterfuck that is this thread. I appreciate what you are trying to do, though, but if there isn't a shorter and more accessible way to access your input I don't have enough interest. I admit that is in part personal failing, but only the amount of personal failing that happens when I don't read the terms and conditions of a piece of shareware. I don't mean I don't have interest in reading ANYTHING relating to American politics, as I am sure people are going to skew my post into. It's more that if a random person comes to my door and won't tell me why they are there until I read the book they have, I'm going to close the door. Locke Dunnegan fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Apr 15, 2015 |
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Apr 15, 2015 00:00
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Locke Dunnegan posted:No one is coming up to you out of the blue and demanding anything. You are holding your own input in discussion hostage until someone takes the time to find, acquire, and read an entire textbook, but you are missing the part where no one gives a gently caress what you think when you pull stupid poo poo like that. There's only a certain amount of acceptance in asking someone to read up on something so you can have a discussion with common knowledge, and an entire physical textbook is a bit past that point when the discussion is the vitriolic clusterfuck that is this thread. I appreciate what you are trying to do, though, but if there isn't a shorter and more accessible way to access your input I don't have enough interest. I admit that is in part personal failing, but only the amount of personal failing that happens when I don't read the terms and conditions of a piece of shareware. Everyone else told you what was up, he deigned to give you a book link that would explain it in full course detail, dude.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:09
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Locke Dunnegan posted:
Yeah that's the thing a lot of people don't seem to understand that there are other people who post on this forum for enjoyment and a discussion which begins and ends with telling them to digest a few textbooks and maybe a few thousand pages of das kapital is not fun.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:12
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Nintendo Kid posted:Everyone else told you what was up, he deigned to give you a book link that would explain it in full course detail, dude. And I thank him for that, now I got some new reading material for when I go poop. And I get to learn something new in the process. 
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Apr 15, 2015 00:12
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Nintendo Kid posted:Everyone else told you what was up, he deigned to give you a book link that would explain it in full course detail, dude. Is that seen as a good start by a lot of people? There didn't seem to be anyone else supporting his choice in literature so it came across as a random dude pimping an old textbook and then sitting there tapping his foot until I did what he wanted. When the level is discourse is as lovely as it has been anyone not in the in crowd knows who to trust to not be an elaborate troll. Trolling is useless and fucks things up for people on all sides of debate which is why I'm not excited about continuing discussion. Just trying to get my view across as best I can.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:15
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Locke Dunnegan posted:Edit: count this as a reply to the last two posts too. Now that's efficiency! Dude, I'm saying if you want to know why the US should stay a federation--or, more broadly, the issues around federalism and states rights in the development of the US--you should read the book(s). If you're not actually interested in the question, then i dunno. It's a good book. very clearly written. You'll learn a lot of other stuff, too. That's my input. It's not a hostage. See, it's walking free.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:15
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Typo posted:Yeah that's the thing a lot of people don't seem to understand that there are other people who post on this forum for enjoyment and a discussion which begins and ends with telling them to digest a few textbooks and maybe a few thousand pages of das kapital is not fun. I'm going to storm into the mathematics symposium with a crackpot idea and when they tell me to learn calculus and suggest textbooks for that I'll get mad.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:17
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Locke Dunnegan posted:Is that seen as a good start by a lot of people? There didn't seem to be anyone else supporting his choice in literature so it came across as a random dude pimping an old textbook and then sitting there tapping his foot until I did what he wanted. When the level is discourse is as lovely as it has been anyone not in the in crowd knows who to trust to not be an elaborate troll. Trolling is useless and fucks things up for people on all sides of debate which is why I'm not excited about continuing discussion. Just trying to get my view across as best I can. I haven't trolled you once. By the way you still didn't respond to my simple example of how easy local corruption is.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:18
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chairface posted:I'm going to storm into the mathematics symposium with a crackpot idea and when they tell me to learn calculus and suggest textbooks for that I'll get mad. D&D is not a mathematics symposium. You are taking this forum way too seriously. But then again Eprisa threads are fun so there's that.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:18
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Typo posted:D&D is not a mathematics symposium. I don't think expecting people to have understood middle and high school level government/social studies classes is such a high bar to be quite honest.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:20
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Nintendo Kid posted:I don't think expecting people to have understood middle and high school level government/social studies classes is such a high bar to be quite honest. OTOH OP actually seems to be willing to learn and doesn't think of himself as smarter than everyone else. To put it another way, I did my degree in Computer Science and if some guy with a lovely understanding of CS (but is willing to learn) comes in and talks to my professors about his great new sorting algorithm which runs at n time, at least some of them would appreciate his interest and passion and at least sit down to tell him why he's wrong in a polite, non-condescending way. I don't think ignorance is so much a barrier to discussion as ignorance+conviction that you are right and refuse to anyone else. OTOH this board did have a couple of those types of people on the -left- and were super obnoxious on top of that and nobody ever called them out for it because they adheres to the correct set of political orthodoxies.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:24
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Typo posted:OTOH OP actually seems to be willing to learn and doesn't think of himself as smarter than everyone else. If he was so willing to learn he wouldn't pitch a fit like a baby and go "I'm not going to chat because you guys were SO MEAN". Typo posted:
Tell me more about ethics in leftist journalism.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:26
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Nintendo Kid posted:I don't think expecting people to have understood middle and high school level government/social studies classes is such a high bar to be quite honest. I don't want to assume you don't know this, especially given how much of an elitist prick you've been the whole thread, but it's either that or you are being intellectually dishonest in the claim that public school education is adequate in making informed citizens. Especially when it comes to American history and politics, it's not too crazy to think that an otherwise intelligent individual wasn't given a good basis on positives and negatives of interplay between state and federal checks and balances. So basically you are ignoring a real problem in our education system to say I, personally, am an idiot due to personal failings, which is stupid, or you are ignorant of it, and are thus an idiot yourself. 
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Apr 15, 2015 00:26
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Locke Dunnegan posted:I don't care if I sounded to some people as if I were a libertarian wolf in sheep's clothing, at face value it obviously isn't, because I loving wasn't. No one actually knows this but you. The things you post are identical to Libertarian or trolling horseshit and people are going to react accordingly.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:26
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Nintendo Kid posted:If he was so willing to learn he wouldn't pitch a fit like a baby and go "I'm not going to chat because you guys were SO MEAN". But that's the thing though. It's fair and valid to ask for a civil discussion without insults being thrown around because this is how the vast majority of enjoyable human interactions go.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:28
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goon in a well: book-learnin' edition
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Apr 15, 2015 00:28
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Nintendo Kid posted:If he was so willing to learn he wouldn't pitch a fit like a baby and go "I'm not going to chat because you guys were SO MEAN". Typo posted:But that's the thing though. 
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Apr 15, 2015 00:30
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Locke Dunnegan posted:Is that seen as a good start by a lot of people? There didn't seem to be anyone else supporting his choice in literature so it came across as a random dude pimping an old textbook and then sitting there tapping his foot until I did what he wanted. When the level is discourse is as lovely as it has been anyone not in the in crowd knows who to trust to not be an elaborate troll. Trolling is useless and fucks things up for people on all sides of debate which is why I'm not excited about continuing discussion. Just trying to get my view across as best I can. Look man, I've been as generous as I can but the reason Obdicut and others have suggested you should read up is, based on the few posts you've made that weren't just tone whining, you've displayed a remarkable deficiency of knowledge about some pretty drat basic aspects of American history and government operation. Yeah, admittedly this isn't a college-level seminar or anything, but if you want to, you know, actually debate and not get (exclusively) made fun of, you sort of have to at least demonstrate an adequate basis of knowledge for the subject to hand. It really seems as if you want to discuss something that you lack precisely that basis discuss, and that you've complained that the rest of us haven't made huge effortposts to fill in the gaps in your knowledge for you, well, comes off as more than a little lazy and/or disingenuous. Furthermore, I'll repeat what I said before that you've chosen a really broad and poorly-defined subject to try to start a conversation about even excepting these problems, and would really benefit from narrowing down what it is, exactly, you want to talk about.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:32
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Locke Dunnegan posted:I don't want to assume you don't know this, especially given how much of an elitist prick you've been the whole thread, but it's either that or you are being intellectually dishonest in the claim that public school education is adequate in making informed citizens. Especially when it comes to American history and politics, it's not too crazy to think that an otherwise intelligent individual wasn't given a good basis on positives and negatives of interplay between state and federal checks and balances. It's not being elitist to expect people to understand a) why the Confederation failed b) why the Confederate States would have been broken even if they managed to not start/not lose the civil war. Typo posted:But that's the thing though. If you can't handle new D&D then I suggest you go hang out in BYOB for your political discussion you whiny little cliffer. It's acceptable to just abandon the thread after complaining, or to make your complaint and then move on, but constantly bringing it up is just dumb and makes people doing it look dumb. Locke Dunnegan posted:Being excessively lovely to someone asking honest questions because you jumped to conclusions about their reasoning behind it and then refuse to back down for a long time can indeed affect their interest in both the discussion and the topic as a whole. Perhaps you should have paid attention in high school psychology or communications???? It'd be great if you lost interest in this topic because your interest is completely misfounded, to be quite frank
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Apr 15, 2015 00:32
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Nintendo Kid posted:
Or you can stop taking this forum so seriously and adhere to this belief that hostile internet posting environment amounts to some sort of machoism. If you can't have a discussion without being civil, the problem is really with you and how you choose to interact with other people.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:34
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Bitchfits like this is enough justification for the destruction of America.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:35
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Locke Dunnegan posted:Being excessively lovely to someone asking honest questions because you jumped to conclusions about their reasoning behind it and then refuse to back down for a long time can indeed affect their interest in both the discussion and the topic as a whole. Perhaps you should have paid attention in high school psychology or communications???? I haven't been lovely to you at any point, unless you think calling you 'huffy' is being lovely, and your response to me has been pretty much the same. The issue is complex, or at least broad, and there's a reason why entire textbooks get written about it. Moreover, it is something that can't be understood as a static point in time, but as an evolutionary system. Just to take a microcosm, the way that states pushed environmental regulation under Reagan, and now push deregulation under Obama, has to be understood in the light of GOP's changing strategies etc. etc. As I said, your OP and your further commentaries reveal ignorance. Ignorance is just a deficit in learning, not a deficit in intelligence or morals or anything like that. You can correct it by learning. You will not correct it by random conversations with people online--you may get a patchy understanding, but not a systematic and trustworthy one. And you certainly won't get past ignorance by just yelling at people about how they shouldn't be mean to you if they expect you to learn stuff. Typo posted:Or you can stop taking this forum so seriously and adhere to this belief that hostile internet posting environment amounts to some sort of machoism. I was civil to him and his response to me is pretty much the same.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:37
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Typo posted:Or you can stop taking this forum so seriously and adhere to this belief that hostile internet posting environment amounts to some sort of machoism. Dude you're the one taking this forum seriously by ranting about ethics in lefitst journalism and how mean people are to whatever apparently dumb views you apparently have are. Here's an idea: stop making whiny tone arguments and start making actual arguments. Same goes for the OP.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:37
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Nintendo Kid posted:Dude you're the one taking this forum seriously by ranting about ethics in lefitst journalism quote:and how mean people are to whatever apparently dumb views you apparently have are. This is the problem, you don't, or at least don't want to, understand the value of a civil discussion to debating. Have fun I guess, I just hope this isn't the way you choose to interact with people irl.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:39
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nm
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Apr 15, 2015 00:41
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Typo posted:I never said anything about leftist journalism Congrats on not getting jokes, guy who whines that everyone else takes things too seriously. If you think and believe dumb things you deserve to be made fun of if you can't adequately defend them, and apparently you can't. Demanding everyone be civil is honestly the coward's way and suited for like boring high school debates rather than an interesting posting experience. I have no idea what the things you apparently get made fun of for are. Yeah I don't bother talking to the weird ranty people who yell about how everyone else is so mean in real life, mostly because they're weirdos.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:44
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