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Kaboom Dragoon posted:Or J. G. Hertzler who played him in Injustice and was an excellent alternative to Perlman. Didn't Injustice come after Origins? Edit: Update at the end of the previous page!
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Apr 17, 2015 16:35
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Yvonmukluk posted:Didn't Injustice come after Origins? Injustice came out April 2013, Origins came out October. They probably didn't go with either of them since this is presumably supposed to be a younger Deathstroke.
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Apr 17, 2015 16:51
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Oh this game. What a disappointment. I know games shouldn't necessarily be judged based on the merit of other games, but it's impossible not to when you're working with sequels. And boy was I let down. Glitches, laziness, a battle system that was somehow worse, repeated sidequests, and I could go on....and likely will as we reach some of this stuff. Still, credit where credit is due, the game isn't awful. It does some things very well and some parts of it are inventive. Multiplayer was actually a lot more fun than I ever expected, I wish I could've played it more, but matchmaking was awful on PS3. Glad to see you back to Arkham, scruffy!
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Apr 17, 2015 23:44
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I really like Alfred. He's like, the only guy who is really, genuinely aware Bruce is a nutjob and that this is all kind of silly. Shame he enables him instead of helping him.
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Apr 18, 2015 02:31
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Batman's arms are SO SHORT in this game.
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Apr 18, 2015 03:47
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So, have an effortpost on what we've seen in video one. This is a long post, but it sets up trends we'll see continue through the game. Italicized points are what I've inferred about the development process from what I've seen. Interior design The intro segment in Blackgate is representative of about half of the interior spaces in AO: Highly linear and scripted, consisting of a series of rooms that are a limited part of a larger space with no coherent design or layout. It's basically a set of individual things that the devs want to have happen to the player, in order, with no larger design conceit. Generally, it appears that interior spaces were designed separately from the overworld, and originated as a list of events the developers wanted to happen to the player. Detailed or integrated space design was not even on the radar, which may have been a scheduling/resource issue, but I think was more likely just a product of the initial design process. Melee hit prediction issues That thing where Croc hits batman without any real opportunity to dodge? Yeah, that's a Thing. A couple AO bosses appear to decide whether or not they will hit you before you get any real ability to dodge, meaning they will sort of zoom over to your location to deliver damage. On some systems, for reasons that are unclear, this will also happen with normal enemies, especially in the overworld. It seems to have something to do with how the game prioritizes different calculations when it's under stress. Scripted boss interactions Generally, the boss encounters transition into and out of quicktimes and cutscenes much less smoothly than the previous games. Many quicktimes will be initiated by the boss suddenly gaining invincibility and superspeed to rush your position so they can make you start hammering a button. This is more a problem for some bosses than others- some apply a completely different set of rules, which accentuates my sense that there were different teams involved in different boss setups. I think it's actually possible to identify these teams by the designs invoked- I'll discuss them later. Humor "I know I smelled you". "At least we know he won't be ugly". Yes, this is a well-written game. Note that the writing is at its most atrocious in cutscenes... Cutscene structure Ah, the "here's a list of all the assassins so there's no surprise or tension, oh, also let's attack them so they can kill us and be cool and we can use this footage for a pre-release trailer" approach to laying out the initial plot hook (a lot of the cutscene footage in the first video was used for early cycle game ads). The cutscenes appear to have been made before a fair amount of the game was developed-possibly shortly after the script was finalized. As you go through, watch for cases where the game has to undo or change something to set up or reverse something in a cutscene to make it fit, and for different style choices between cutscenes and ingame prose (the latter is often a lot more nuanced- the batcave conversations are some of the best writing in the game). Lips Don't stare directly at a character's mouth when they speak, especially Alfred and Bruce. The lipsync software they implemented really needed another tuning pass, and it's at its most noticeable in the batcave, which is too bad because Alfred's writing here is great. Some good things: Challenge mode It's really, really nice to be able to access and work on challenges from the Batcave interface. Enemy progression Although there are some (huge) problems in the late game, and although it makes the game inhospitable to new players, AO is great for series veterans, because it rapidly reintroduces the enemy types from the first game. Scruffy mentions this, and it will keep being the case. I'll post notes from video 2 in a bit. Later effortposts won't be so mind-numbing, and I'll try to include as much positive as possible. There are some very nice things in this game, it's just a shame that they're, well, in this game.
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Apr 18, 2015 03:49
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Screw it, Video 2 notes: Stealth Tutorial This is one of the nicest interiors of the game! It's highly linear, but it's structurally coherent, and frames the reveal of Gotham really well. It's also a fairly good introduction to stealth mechanics, which goes a long way in excusing its linearity. Crime Scenes Crime scenes in AO are never too complex, with one notable exception. Batman often monologues to himself (and the player) exactly what you're supposed to do next-likely a product of playtester confusion. Your first time through the game in particular, though, they're quite fun- and they're a major step forward from the investigation stuff in previous games in the series. I'm hoping AK further expands on them, but designers will always run up against the difficulty of having the player inhabit a character who is supposed to be an infallible detective. The Radio Tower was a late addition It comes out of nowhere and is used to frame game mechanics that otherwise go underexplained. This may be why it, and its writing, is actually better than a lot of the rest of the main storyline! Cute Crypto Codes I personally found these really tiring- with one fantastic exception that is glorious and redeems all the others. Fast Travel It's great! I love it! The towers mechanic, a classic import from the Assassin's Creed series and others, can be annoying, but it's necessary to restrict movement in some ways to control later plotting. Enigma HQ The location looks really cool, but notice that Batman infers that Enigma's trying to destroy the city based on absolutely nothing. The bad: Roadblock buildings To accommodate the larger size and other CPU load issues, WBG Montreal added unusually large buildings to Gotham that block your line of sight and can't be climbed, which gives the game an opportunity to buffer new areas. This was actually done with the U-shape of the world map in AC, but it's a lot more noticeable and obnoxious in this game, especially when you're crossing long distances in the late game. Having these interruptors as uncrossable "islands" in the map can be really frustrating when you have spend a minute to get around one of them.
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Apr 18, 2015 04:30
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Welcome back, dscruffy1! So, Batman's been doing this for just two years, you say? It's probably a reference to the great stories Batman: Year One and Year Two, where people's reactions to him are pretty much what we saw in the first video.
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Apr 18, 2015 05:09
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J.theYellow posted:I like how Batman has body armor. Relevant to the line in Arkham Asylum where he talked about how he used to have body armor, but it "slowed me down." One thing that bugs me about the thugs in this game is that they're always going, "What is that?" when they see Batman like he's is some sort of horrifying monster. No, you can see at a glance he's some guy in body armour. If it wasn't for the cape and ears, you wouldn't think twice about what he's wearing. Outside of predator rooms, he never even really does anything scary. I really wish they'd do more with the "Batman is loving terrifying" concept rather than leaving it as an informed attribute. On the gameplay front - having you only able to complete challenges in order is a horrible design decision. What are you supposed to do, write them all down with a pen and paper and tick them off, hoping like hell that when you get to one you can't do you find the exact right single spot in the game to do it or you're screwed forever? Because modern autosaves - and this is a huge personal peeve of mine - stop you from going back and redoing a section unless the game designers have deigned to allow you to do it. Games twenty years ago let you save whenever you want, why can't we do that now? Sometimes you just want to replay one really cool section a couple of times.
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Apr 18, 2015 05:36
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Gorilla Salad posted:On the gameplay front - having you only able to complete challenges in order is a horrible design decision. What are you supposed to do, write them all down with a pen and paper and tick them off, hoping like hell that when you get to one you can't do you find the exact right single spot in the game to do it or you're screwed forever? It's not really a problem other than with the predator challenges, because there's roaming groups of thugs everywhere in the overworld. There are some predator sections in the overworld, but they 1) don't have destructible walls, etc., which you may need for the challenge. 2) aren't allowed for some challenges. And unlike Arkham City, where the subway predator room could be repeated (and had everything you could need for any challenge), Origins makes you get any challenges you missed on New Game+. Or Dark Knight mode, if you still haven't gotten some. One of your gadgets is locked behind the level 10 (I think) challenge. Without it, you can't unlock all of the challenge maps. So yeah, you pretty much have to use a guide if you want to get them all on your first time through. Or even on New Game+, because not every room has destructible walls or a propane tank. The game also helpfully autosaves after you complete a room, just in case you thought you could reload the checkpoint and try it again if you mess up.
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Apr 18, 2015 08:46
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To be honest, the entire idea is incredibly stupid. Having to worry about not having permanently missed something that would allow you to unlock more content is a great way to spoil gameplay.
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Apr 18, 2015 08:48
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Discendo Vox posted:Melee hit prediction issues That thing where Croc hits batman without any real opportunity to dodge? Yeah, that's a Thing. A couple AO bosses appear to decide whether or not they will hit you before you get any real ability to dodge, meaning they will sort of zoom over to your location to deliver damage. On some systems, for reasons that are unclear, this will also happen with normal enemies, especially in the overworld. It seems to have something to do with how the game prioritizes different calculations when it's under stress. Anyway, I think this game started really great, but lost it's momentum when it basically said "here's eight bosses, you've already beaten one, but go beat the rest". Obviously the game is going to have speed bumps in the plot progression, but I think it's better to introduce them gradually while other speed bumps are being cleared. That way you never get to see more than one or two speed bumps simultaneously. Showing a large number of them to the player at once makes the game seem a lot less interesting, even if in the end the ratio of speed bumps vs actual plot progression is probably about the same.
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Apr 18, 2015 09:56
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With the way they laid out the 8 assassins I was hoping this was going to be megaman-esque pick a boss then run through a themed stage.
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Apr 18, 2015 11:45
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I didn't know you could still toggle the cryptographer while talking to Eddie. That makes the scene so much more hilarious. Edit: OK, I have to say this; I much prefer this Riddler to the Riddler in City or even Asylum; because he's talking about utilising a way to clean up the streets in a different way to Batman, but in a way that seems too dangerous for Bruce. This, along with another character, I find COULD have made the game better than it was (it doesn't go the whole route I would have thought more appropriate), but it does make young Batman seem... less right in his goals? That and the fact that you also beat up a hell of a lot of police in this game, too. I'm surprised there wasn't an outcry about that when it was released. Samovar fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Apr 18, 2015 |
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Apr 18, 2015 12:21
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Crystalgate posted:I've heard this game also has problems with counters, namely if an enemy decides to attack Batman after he already has started attacking another enemy. Yes, I was going to get into that later when there are more examples of it. There are a number of things borked with basic combat, but again, results are inconsistent, and seem to vary heavily on PCs running the game. This resulted in a couple fun excuses in the main game thread when it was released, primarily "git gud" and "enemies hitting you out of animations is a design feature, it's meant to make the game more challenging and show that batman's less experienced." There are other combat problems, but there's a lot of good in the additions to the game's combat that shouldn't be lost, so I'll discuss them later. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Apr 18, 2015 |
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Apr 18, 2015 16:34
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Man, holy poo poo. Despite my earlier statements of not doing 100% I didn't realize how accurate it'd be. The combat flow in this game is making it SUPER DIFFICULT to get the challenge maps done. No poo poo it's a drat trial and I'm not sure how I did it the first time. WHICH I DID AND IT'S ON VIDEO and it'll be shown in the next few challenge maps. This game is hard but not in the sense that God Hand is hard but fair, it's hard in the sense that you dodged but the game is going to clock you anyway because WB Montreal wants money. Welcome to the ride y'all. e: no poo poo I was playing through the challenges again and I was getting hit by ghosts. No threat, no display, no nothing. Straight up OH HEY YOU'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF COMBAT. HOPE YOU LIKE GETTING HIT FROM NOWHERE HO HO HO dscruffy1 fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Apr 18, 2015 |
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Apr 18, 2015 21:32
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Speaking of combat flow that's one thing I dislike about what they did with the
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Apr 18, 2015 21:49
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dscruffy1 posted:Man, holy poo poo. Despite my earlier statements of not doing 100% I didn't realize how accurate it'd be. The combat flow in this game is making it SUPER DIFFICULT to get the challenge maps done. No poo poo it's a drat trial and I'm not sure how I did it the first time. WHICH I DID AND IT'S ON VIDEO and it'll be shown in the next few challenge maps. This game is hard but not in the sense that God Hand is hard but fair, it's hard in the sense that you dodged but the game is going to clock you anyway because WB Montreal wants money. Welcome to the ride y'all. I got every trophy from the challenge maps in the previous games and it took me half a dozen tries to get 3 on the first combat challenge. Sometimes Batman will just decide not to counter, or to punch the air. It seems like the best strategy is just to use [gadget obtained later] immediately, which is basically ignoring all of the combat's intricacies and turning into into mashing the punch button.
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Apr 18, 2015 22:02
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The timing is so different from City that I remember dying a ton when I first got the game. Things are just off.It's really easy to get hit mid punch in this game. Counters seem to work just fine, but I've had Batman punch space and ruin a combo many times. The combat challenges definitely took a minute to do. I had to get 100% though, just so I could put the game down with peace of mind.
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Apr 18, 2015 22:20
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I had some difficulty with the combat in this game, but I had assumed it was because I played it on PC with KB&M after playing both Asylum and City on PS3.
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Apr 18, 2015 22:57
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Chaltab posted:I had some difficulty with the combat in this game, but I had assumed it was because I played it on PC with KB&M after playing both Asylum and City on PS3. I played all of them on PC with keyboard and mouse (I know, I'm insane). Combat in Origins is definitely janky.
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Apr 18, 2015 23:33
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GimpInBlack posted:I played all of them on PC with keyboard and mouse (I know, I'm insane). Combat in Origins is definitely janky. Fellow KBM player here too, and yeah Origins just plain doesn't cooperate well with the controls. Honestly most of its issues in general boil down to a general lack of polish; the story is pretty darn good (arguably even the best one in the series thus far, although that's a tough call), most of the general ideas and new gadgets and such were reasonably interesting, it's just the actual execution of everything was so flawed it brings the whole game down, especially compared to the other two which were far better on having gameplay actually PLAY well.
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Apr 19, 2015 04:16
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It does boggle the mind a bit when you realize that we're sitting here talking about the main issue with a superhero game being that it lacked a little bit of polish. There is nothing wrong with that mind you. It is just sort of nice, and odd, that a game with a high priced name attacked to it is good to start with.
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Apr 19, 2015 16:13
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Manic_Misanthrope posted:With the way they laid out the 8 assassins I was hoping this was going to be megaman-esque pick a boss then run through a themed stage. Yeah, I was expecting a lot more hijinks, but what I got was okay. With one major exception, which I'll bitch about when we get there, and several minor ones, Like the combat problems, and our old buddy Riddler's seemingly inconsistent lines. Discendo Vox has dealt with most of my complaints from the first couplea videos quite well, and it seems like nearly everybody's experienced the problems with combat flow. However, I will grant the game a couple of things: Feminine villains and henchladies are slightly better. Slightly. I'll talk a lil' about each myself when we get to them. I also unequivocally love Detective Mode. There's not been a single use of it in the game that I didn't get and like, and they get a lot of mileage out of it... Plus, it's one of the few times where the shiny smoke and mirrors of it all actually counts in my book
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Apr 19, 2015 16:36
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Major_JF posted:It does boggle the mind a bit when you realize that we're sitting here talking about the main issue with a superhero game being that it lacked a little bit of polish. There is nothing wrong with that mind you. It is just sort of nice, and odd, that a game with a high priced name attacked to it is good to start with. If it wasn't a prequel to two much better games, I think more of us would be willing to ignore the issues.As is, you can't exactly pull the 'it's good for a licensed game' card when Asylum and City both showed how much better this game could have been.
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Apr 19, 2015 17:42
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Hopefully that'll apply to even more licensed games in future, but maybe they won't be able to reach the lofty heights of Asylum and City. At least there's the various Lego games, but there will always be the movie tie-ins developed for every platform that'll be crapped out and will get their money back no matter what they do, so it's a thin line. I'm also looking forward to games that aren't Batman, as great as they are. Surely there's loads of cool heroes, or even villains that you could make great games out of.
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Apr 19, 2015 18:05
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The detective mode is both extremely absurd and great. I think they did the right thing to play it straight and make Batman talk as if it the reconstruction of the crime scene was no more strange than milk getting bad if you leave it out of the refrigerator for too long. Any attempt at explaining it away with techno-babble would just have caused harm. I hope the upcoming Arkham game keeps this feature.
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Apr 19, 2015 18:07
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Major_JF posted:It does boggle the mind a bit when you realize that we're sitting here talking about the main issue with a superhero game being that it lacked a little bit of polish. There is nothing wrong with that mind you. It is just sort of nice, and odd, that a game with a high priced name attacked to it is good to start with. It's really not "little bit of polish" that it lacks. The game has a variety of really severe bugs that undermine any positive aspects. The big problems appear to have emerged from its underlying design document and schedule, and exacerbated by a lack of about 6 months of QA at the tail end.
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Apr 19, 2015 18:20
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MadDogMike posted:Fellow KBM player here too, and yeah Origins just plain doesn't cooperate well with the controls. Honestly most of its issues in general boil down to a general lack of polish; the story is pretty darn good (arguably even the best one in the series thus far, although that's a tough call), most of the general ideas and new gadgets and such were reasonably interesting, it's just the actual execution of everything was so flawed it brings the whole game down, especially compared to the other two which were far better on having gameplay actually PLAY well. I third that as a keyboard+mouse guy, and yes, it's just Origins being unpolished. I played Asylum and City just fine with keyboard and mouse, but Origins gave me trouble in that regard
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Apr 19, 2015 18:34
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Hellioning posted:If it wasn't a prequel to two much better games, I think more of us would be willing to ignore the issues.As is, you can't exactly pull the 'it's good for a licensed game' card when Asylum and City both showed how much better this game could have been. I see your point. Discendo Vox posted:It's really not "little bit of polish" that it lacks. The game has a variety of really severe bugs that undermine any positive aspects. The big problems appear to have emerged from its underlying design document and schedule, and exacerbated by a lack of about 6 months of QA at the tail end. Ahh, I haven't played this one yet. I hope this can come across without killing the LP save file.
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Apr 20, 2015 02:17
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Major_JF posted:Ahh, I haven't played this one yet. I hope this can come across without killing the LP save file. At this point the main risk is it killing scruffy before he can max out challenge mode. Anyways, there are known ways to back up the save file now, iirc.
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Apr 20, 2015 02:44
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Crosspeice posted:
A Rocksteady Daredevil would be absolutely amazing.
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Apr 20, 2015 05:03
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Sir Potato posted:A Rocksteady Daredevil would be absolutely amazing. We play the whole game in detective mode anyways, why not make it the only vision mode? With all sorts of crazy effects and such because there are simple textures.
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Apr 20, 2015 05:08
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So yeah, let's track down a guy! Loose Lips Gets Kicks/PolsyPoor Ricky, his downfall was a cellphone.
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Apr 20, 2015 17:54
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The Zatanna poster on the wall during the ATM fight was a nice touch.
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Apr 20, 2015 19:08
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Dropping someone onto a tree from that height seems dangerous as hell.
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Apr 20, 2015 22:33
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Not only is it a pine tree, meaning he's probably got needles in places he doesn't want needles, splintered branches are sharp. Since he fell head-first his legs might be okay but he's probably broken an arm or two to go along with his puncture wounds.
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Apr 20, 2015 22:38
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Yeah Batman gives people concussions and breaks their limbs and leaves them out in sub-zero temperatures. This is perfectly fine, those guys are fine.
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Apr 20, 2015 22:47
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Jesus, Batman is somehow an even bigger rear end in a top hat than he was in City.
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Apr 21, 2015 01:34
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I was kind of hoping that the thug in the Santa Hat would turn in to a recurring villain.
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Apr 21, 2015 03:44
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