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CuwiKhons posted:Good, somebody has to make a stand against Discendo Vox's tyranny. Jokers writing is the best thing in the series. So what if it lacks in some other areas.
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May 1, 2015 05:20
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| # ? Apr 24, 2024 05:41 |
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While I really liked Origins I fully admit that it has a ton of sharp problems and your ability to fully enjoy it will depend on which of them you can tolerate and which you cannot. It'll also depend on how well you can treat origins as a seperate game rather than a prequel to a well-executed game. If you think city was a legit 9/10 going down two steps to a legit 7/10 for origins might feel kick to the shins even though you're still getting a solid game. The best parts of Origins haven't come up yet anyway, the night is long and we're still warming up from a cold start, so the discussion may turn later.
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May 1, 2015 05:34
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CuwiKhons posted:
It's okay, I don't totally love it, but I'll defend at least 80... no wait 75% of the game. Probably because I guess I was really lucky and didn't encounter any of the bugs that so many people on the internet report with this game.
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May 1, 2015 07:59
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I haven't checked the LP subforum in awhile, I've just been following a few bookmarked threads. I can't believe I missed you starting this LP. I'm gonna... I'm gonna catch up on this, and then I'm gonna be the Lone Defender of Origins.
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To be honest, I'm legitimately surprised that scruffy hasn't gotten that annoying glitch where Batman will just spaz out while gliding and just have a seizure or something in mid-air.
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May 1, 2015 08:05
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:To be honest, I'm legitimately surprised that scruffy hasn't gotten that annoying glitch where Batman will just spaz out while gliding and just have a seizure or something in mid-air. Funny story. Wait for a few more videos.
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May 1, 2015 08:12
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Waltzing Along posted:Jokers writing is the best thing in the series. So what if it lacks in some other areas. I don't think "So what if it's bad" is a good way to look at what people would consider a AAA game. Joker's writing was good, but also very predictable. And I'm not fond of black hole characters in any work of fiction. Once he shows up, the entire story has to center around him. I know there are plenty of great Batman stories that he isn't in and I'd hoped this game was going to be another. I was let down in that regard as far as the story went. And Discendo Vox has said every complaint I have about the game way better than I could from a mechanics standpoint. Hard counter hit a good point. I loved City a lot, consider it a 10/10, so Origins' biggest sin wasn't that it was truly bad (despite the game breaking bugs on launch day) but that it was a let down.
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May 1, 2015 08:37
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Black Hole character is a pretty drat good way of referring to this game's two main villains. They're just overdone to the point where there's nothing interesting about them. Batman has a great villain gallery, just why do they keep sticking with this pair is beyond me.
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May 1, 2015 09:32
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Yeah, I wonder why in a game about Arkham Origins we'd have The Joker and Penguin and Gordon?
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May 1, 2015 09:42
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Waltzing Along posted:Yeah, I wonder why in a game about Arkham Origins we'd have The Joker and Penguin and Gordon? You do realize you can do whatever you want with Batman. You could even *gasp* excise the joker completely and Batman will still remain Batman. The joker is absolutely not essential, only popular.
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May 1, 2015 10:07
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Waltzing Along posted:Yeah, I wonder why in a game about Arkham Origins we'd have The Joker and Penguin and Gordon?
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May 1, 2015 10:14
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Time to fight THE POWER. With the power of   Bringing Order To Anarky/Polsy
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May 1, 2015 16:17
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For a guy who hates government, Anarky can filibuster with the best of them. I also love how he alternates between saying sensible things and just being a petulant child. I can't help but feel like Batman could've talked things out with Anarky and potentially made a new ally or at least convinced him to use less extreme methods. But, I guess beating up a bunch of abused and disillusioned homeless people is easier than trying to talk? I mean, I know Anarky and his guys are in the wrong, but Batman is seriously a dick in this game. And if there's one thing I can say for certain in Origins' defense, its AR Missions are considerably superior to Arkham City's. Far less annoying to complete them. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 17:02 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 16:21
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I never liked the augmented reality challenges
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May 1, 2015 16:39
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:For a guy who hates government, Anarky can filibuster with the best of them. I also love how he alternates between saying sensible things and just being a petulant child. For all that I find Origins the least of the three Arkham titles, Anarky is genuinely a well written character in Origins. He doesn't see the whole story, but he sees enough of it to raise some valid concerns (Especially about Batman), and, in a way, is one of those making an implicit statement about one of the biggest flaws of a capitalistic system. Of course, where it falls down, where Anarky falls down, is that, as he's represented here, he's gone straight to bullying and propagandizing as his main options, ironically becoming the same kind of beast as the system he despises. But, of the villains in Origins, he's easily among the most sympathetic. He's been let down, sometimes quite brutally. He's not a sadistic thug, or a lecherous, abusive and obsessive profiteer. He's a kid who's seen enough to say "gently caress this, this is not right", but not enough to see that what he's doing... Isn't right either. Also, Alfred, never stop being you. You classy gent, you. 
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May 1, 2015 18:03
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:For a guy who hates government, Anarky can filibuster with the best of them. I also love how he alternates between saying sensible things and just being a petulant child. I think the point of Anarky's filibuster was to show how he twists and turns theory and reality alike into self-righteous convultions that ultimately suit his own destructive tendencies at their culmination. He seems reasonable at first, as in he might be swayed by logic and reason, but he'll stew and cook at an issue until he can convince himself one and one make three if that's convenient for him. I'm not sure if there is a talking to him, outside of extended medical rehabilitation anyway. Anarky is definitely a great but underutilized villain. A lot of Anarky's methods and ideas are borrowed from the radical anarchists that caused a 'fair' amount of mayhem at the dawn of the 20th century. They were a kind of a boogyman for a while although their real accomplishments were few. Some call them the first genuine terrorists in the sense that their actions did more by indirectly causing a stirr than by direct attack since you now had newspapers to sensationalize events. Bombings, political assassinations and cutting down strike breakers were all on the plate for them. On the one hand, very generally, they supported ideas we'd call good today but their methods often did more harm than help - their efforts actually regularly set back the work of individuals who worked very hard at acheiving social progress by reaching the hearts and minds of the people and by making real changes in the laws that dictate how people can be legally treated. Those are things you can't do when you hurl bombs into high-end restaurants hoping to somehow stick it to the man. hard counter fucked around with this message at 20:23 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 20:00
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I definitely think Batman did the right thing to turn Anarky in, but his "I don't work with criminals. You need to turn yourself in" comment felt very worrying to me. It's a strange thing to say when he's a criminal himself. It looked to me like he just gave Anarky a canned response without giving a care about whether or said response is actually appropriate for the situation at hand which in turn makes me feel as if it hadn't mattered if Anarky had been a more reasonable person. To be frank, this does fit the impression of Batman I've been given from the Arkham games, he's not a person who listens to others and can be reasoned with.
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May 1, 2015 20:21
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Crystalgate posted:I definitely think Batman did the right thing to turn Anarky in, but his "I don't work with criminals. You need to turn yourself in" comment felt very worrying to me. It's a strange thing to say when he's a criminal himself. It looked to me like he just gave Anarky a canned response without giving a care about whether or said response is actually appropriate for the situation at hand which in turn makes me feel as if it hadn't mattered if Anarky had been a more reasonable person. To be frank, this does fit the impression of Batman I've been given from the Arkham games, he's not a person who listens to others and can be reasoned with. Isn't that pretty par for the course with batman though? I mean half of Alfred's character is asking Bruce to be reasonable and then rolling his eyes when Bruce inevitably ignores his advice.
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May 1, 2015 20:35
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All you need to know about Anarky's true nature is that he was intending to not only blow up a bunch of buildings with people in them, but also to blow up his own followers without their knowledge. They aren't even willing martyrs. Whatever bullshit he says about how he is different from the corporate overlords, he views his people as expendable pawns.
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May 1, 2015 20:59
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FoolyCharged posted:Isn't that pretty par for the course with batman though? I mean half of Alfred's character is asking Bruce to be reasonable and then rolling his eyes when Bruce inevitably ignores his advice.
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May 1, 2015 21:04
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Mzbundifund posted:All you need to know about Anarky's true nature is that he was intending to not only blow up a bunch of buildings with people in them, but also to blow up his own followers without their knowledge. They aren't even willing martyrs. Whatever bullshit he says about how he is different from the corporate overlords, he views his people as expendable pawns. I'll make an angry effortpost backing this up later tonight, but the short version is that Anarky is a paranoid schizophrenic with a messiah complex. He's not reasonable in any way, and Batman's not unreasonable in any way for not wanting to "work with him". His writing is a very intentional word salad of different fringe political beliefs for that reason- it's also why his profile refers to his obsessive self-importance. As far as his background in comics, Anarky is a similarly terrible character, an Alan Grant self-insert whose ideals shifted over time to reflect the writer's various "smash the system, man" political beliefs, ultimately winding up an Objectivist when Grant discovered the holy Rand. Anarky is good at hand to hand, computer hacking, persuasion, crossword puzzles and anything else his stories needed him to be good at, since he's a horrible Mary Sue. He's like DnD and a bad stereotype of Batman fused together. vvvv He's doesn't even remotely have sympathetic goals, because most of the things he's railing against ingame are things that don't exist. The whole point of his spiel once he's taken down is that he's mentally ill- he can't accept that he's not infinitely and absolutely correct and the perfect revolutionary leader, or that Batman could be correct in disagreeing with him. You literally watch him reason his way out of working with batman because if batman disagrees with him, he must be one of THEM. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 22:11 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 21:26
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At the same time, as an antagonist, he certainly works. After all, 'Mentally ill person who puts on a ridiculous outfit and tries to solve the world's problems via violence' is basically the definition of superhero, so having someone with sympathetic goals who goes too far is a good way to provide some contrast and help show where the line is.
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May 1, 2015 21:40
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As "Evil Batman mirrors" go he's probably one of the more interesting ones and it'd be good to see him get more use in the upcoming Arkham Knight.
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May 1, 2015 21:55
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Manic_Misanthrope posted:As "Evil Batman mirrors" go he's probably one of the more interesting ones and it'd be good to see him get more use in the upcoming Arkham Knight. Actually, a profoundly changed Anarky would be a good explanation for the Arkham Knight, if Origins were canon.
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May 1, 2015 22:17
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:
Unless you decide to wait until the game starts littering the map with snipers to do them. One of the Advanced AR missions will kill you by having Batman stand in place while the AR markers pop up because that doesn't stop the five snipers on the surrounding rooftops from targeting and shooting you.
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May 1, 2015 22:30
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paragon1 posted:Unless you decide to wait until the game starts littering the map with snipers to do them. One of the Advanced AR missions will kill you by having Batman stand in place while the AR markers pop up because that doesn't stop the five snipers on the surrounding rooftops from targeting and shooting you. Dammit, you guys are spoiling all my effortposts! Yeah, this game nicely illustrates why City and Asylum only use snipers in predator rooms and in scripted events. The lack of learning from the past by WB was impressive.
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May 1, 2015 22:37
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City had snipers casually hanging out around the Steel Mill though? And Asylum had them in the guard towers. Of course, those guys you had fairly easy access too so they weren't a huge pain to deal with.
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May 1, 2015 22:41
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Discendo Vox posted:Dammit, you guys are spoiling all my effortposts! Yeah, this game nicely illustrates why City and Asylum only use snipers in predator rooms and in scripted events. The lack of learning from the past by WB was impressive. Hell, even at the end of City the outdoor snipers were annoying. When the game forces you to clear up the rooftops of half the city just to have the breathing room to pick up some Riddler trophies, it starts to make the whole thing into a bit of a chore.
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May 1, 2015 22:45
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inflatablefish posted:Hell, even at the end of City the outdoor snipers were annoying. When the game forces you to clear up the rooftops of half the city just to have the breathing room to pick up some Riddler trophies, it starts to make the whole thing into a bit of a chore. Iirc the end of City snipers were only on 1. the Monarch Theater and 2. the entrance to wonder tower. All snipers disappear in the postgame.
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May 1, 2015 22:57
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Discendo Vox posted:Actually, a profoundly changed Anarky would be a good explanation for the Arkham Knight, if Origins were canon. Chucking out the baby with the bathwater being common practice in the Video Game industry.
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May 1, 2015 23:11
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Night10194 posted:At the same time, as an antagonist, he certainly works. I definitely agree that he's a good antagonist. Dude who convinces people (and himself) to do vile, reprehensible things by appealing to some principled greater good is a great premise for a villain and one we see quite often outside of fiction.
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May 1, 2015 23:12
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I'd always gotten the opinion Anarky just wanted to do the right thing, but took measures too far. But, that mention of self-importance and seeing that whole rant to Batman again really does make it clear that he's only really interested in his own spin on things, huh? paragon1 posted:Unless you decide to wait until the game starts littering the map with snipers to do them. One of the Advanced AR missions will kill you by having Batman stand in place while the AR markers pop up because that doesn't stop the five snipers on the surrounding rooftops from targeting and shooting you. I will have more to say about the snipers in this game later (if I remember), but man, are there problems with snipers in this game.
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May 1, 2015 23:53
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FoolyCharged posted:Isn't that pretty par for the course with batman though? I mean half of Alfred's character is asking Bruce to be reasonable and then rolling his eyes when Bruce inevitably ignores his advice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWHHsdE_oQg Frankly, going around and beating up thugs is when Batman is at his least interesting.
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May 2, 2015 00:27
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I think Anarky is best summed up by his final speech there, where he asks to be Batman's apprentice. He brings up the valid point that Batman really doesn't listen to anyone, and while he is very strong he is also very clearly disconnected from the people he is trying to save. But then he turns Batman into a scapegoat and takes it too far, raving about how Batman must be looking down on everyone and has gone mad with power and whatnot. Again, also possibly true but certainly not to the degree that Anarky insisted and the sudden 180 of opinions between sentences made it very clear that Anarky really needs help. He's very well written in that you almost agree with him or are at least interested in what he has to say, but then he turns around and starts up the crazy again. It paints a very interesting picture of someone who very clearly needs mental help.
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May 2, 2015 00:43
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Discendo Vox posted:Iirc the end of City snipers were only on 1. the Monarch Theater and 2. the entrance to wonder tower. All snipers disappear in the postgame. I'm pretty sure snipers stay active at the entrance of Joker's Funland/Amusement Mile (I forget the actual district names) through the post-game.
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May 2, 2015 00:52
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I've decided the best way for me to be fair as I critique the game is to not just go off of my own memory. I have a 100% file with all the DLC anyway. I might as well play alongside the LP. Should be interesting.
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May 2, 2015 01:44
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Arcade Rabbit posted:I think Anarky is best summed up by his final speech there, where he asks to be Batman's apprentice. He brings up the valid point that Batman really doesn't listen to anyone, and while he is very strong he is also very clearly disconnected from the people he is trying to save. But then he turns Batman into a scapegoat and takes it too far, raving about how Batman must be looking down on everyone and has gone mad with power and whatnot. Again, also possibly true but certainly not to the degree that Anarky insisted and the sudden 180 of opinions between sentences made it very clear that Anarky really needs help. He's very well written in that you almost agree with him or are at least interested in what he has to say, but then he turns around and starts up the crazy again. It paints a very interesting picture of someone who very clearly needs mental help. The best villain is one you agree with for the first minute or two he's talking. And then goes places he really shouldn't.
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May 2, 2015 02:03
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Nihilarian posted:It depends on the writer. Gonna derail this discussion long enough to say that JLU is probably my favourite depiction of most of the involved characters, pro and antagonist alike.
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May 2, 2015 02:06
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TwoPair posted:I'm pretty sure snipers stay active at the entrance of Joker's Funland/Amusement Mile (I forget the actual district names) through the post-game. You may well be right, it's been long enough I don't remember. Dickish if true. I'll do a real effortpost on snipers when they start sticking round in the city.
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May 2, 2015 03:42
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Night10194 posted:The best villain is one you agree with for the first minute or two he's talking. And then goes places he really shouldn't. "You have an accurate view of the problem. It's your solution that needs to be stopped." - Kidd Radd
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May 2, 2015 07:09
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Crystalgate posted:I definitely think Batman did the right thing to turn Anarky in, but his "I don't work with criminals. You need to turn yourself in" comment felt very worrying to me. It's a strange thing to say when he's a criminal himself. It looked to me like he just gave Anarky a canned response without giving a care about whether or said response is actually appropriate for the situation at hand which in turn makes me feel as if it hadn't mattered if Anarky had been a more reasonable person. To be frank, this does fit the impression of Batman I've been given from the Arkham games, he's not a person who listens to others and can be reasoned with. I saw someone explain this once after being asked why Batman is such a dick to Mr. Freeze in City. Basically, if Batman starts reasoning with people, they might get the idea that Batman is something that can be reasoned with. If Batman's not a total dick to everybody he meets, people might get the impression that he's human after all, rather than a terrifying, invulnerable embodiment of justice in the shape of a fist. Discendo Vox posted:You literally watch him reason his way out of working with batman because if batman disagrees with him, he must be one of THEM. You see that happen in real life when it comes to politics and social issues. Ideological splits happen and people who 99% agree with you become as much The Enemy as people who disagree with you 99%. And he is sorta right, Batman is a 1%er who's using fancy gadgets to beat up homeless people. 
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May 2, 2015 08:18
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