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computer parts posted:Continuing to send all the black people to food service isn't a solution even if they have a "living wage". Its not all the black people and I was really thinking of vocations or manufacturing more than food service but your point is a good one and it is taken.
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Apr 18, 2015 16:00
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I think I would agree with that vocational idea at least in part. It's beyond the scope of this thread probably, but education has other, more long-sighted reforms in teaching pedagogy and overall philosophy that extend far beyond the little high-stakes testing poo poo-show that we've got right now. Reforming teaching to be more about teaching kids to actually be able to ask meaningful questions and be able to adequately dissect the world around them, and thus be able to figure out what it means (to them) to be worthwhile to know and explore should be a goal in education, but that's probably a long way off. I'm going to be a teacher and I think sometimes about my stance on high-stakes testing and how I will approach it. If it's so obviously fundamentally toxic to real, meaningful education, what should we do about?
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Apr 18, 2015 17:59
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semper wifi posted:The alternative is trapping good students in with awful ones (or more realistically for these schools; less bad ones with the really bad ones). And even if you do that and your school keeps its scores above whatever the minimums are, it doesn't actually help the worse-off students because they're still going to be in there failing. Smarter kids bringing the average up doesn't change that. As someone who was in both behavior mod and the interdistrict gifted/talented class, no. Having an interdistrict gifted program improved student averages across all participating districts. Country Club Elementary/Middle/High was the only local school that didn't scramble to get in because they had a racket going with the tutoring company and also didn't want anything to do with us. Charter schools work like the behavior mod program. Rather than intervene on behalf of failing students you just shove the kids getting picked on in with the Nazi kid and then drop the entire class citing discipline issues. The presence of students who are being validated and given extras by the school improves participation. Dropping students who slip just improves averages. Big Hubris fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Apr 18, 2015 |
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Apr 18, 2015 18:08
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Zesty Mordant posted:I think I would agree with that vocational idea at least in part. It's beyond the scope of this thread probably, but education has other, more long-sighted reforms in teaching pedagogy and overall philosophy that extend far beyond the little high-stakes testing poo poo-show that we've got right now. Reforming teaching to be more about teaching kids to actually be able to ask meaningful questions and be able to adequately dissect the world around them, and thus be able to figure out what it means (to them) to be worthwhile to know and explore should be a goal in education, but that's probably a long way off. Unfortunately, what is happening in American education is rooted in relatively long-term trends in American politics, high-stakes testing is there for a reason and getting rid of it may not even be possible at this point. At this point, It is very much an ideological issue, and the poor social results it brings are either swept under the rug or maybe even secretly desired. Also, to be honest, I don't know how many American politicians and education wonks really want American children to be able to adequately be able to dissect the world around them.
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Apr 18, 2015 18:20
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Unfortunately, developing technocratic solutions to intractable societal problems has been a major part of liberal orthodoxy since the New Deal. That's not to say there aren't technocratic solutions to some of our problems, but we've gone way too far with some of this poo poo. Determining a school, or neighborhood, or a child's value by test scores allows us to shift blame and ignore the context. Why, the test is the same for everybody, and everyone is taught the test with the same curriculum, so if the school/neighborhood/child fails, it is their own fault. We do this poo poo everywhere. The Justice System tries to solve problems of racial bias in pre-trial bail evaluations with score-based forms to determine the objective likelihood of a person failing to appear. Even with these tools, pre-trial evaluations have hilarious (awful) racial disparities. Instead of focusing on problems like racial bias in the judiciary itself, or the overpolicing of minority populations, we focus all our attention on calibrating our tools better, to avoid those awkward conversations.
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Apr 19, 2015 03:18
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