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The_PC_Snob
Nov 22, 2012

Mario? Never
heard of him.
Wasn't really being serious about Escaton being right. But yeah, it is probably for the best to figure a way to get rid of an artifact that has "Armageddon" in it's name, Gelu.

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Tanith
Jul 17, 2005


Alpha, Beta, Gamma cores
Use them, lose them, salvage more
Kick off the next AI war
In the Persean Sector

THE BAR posted:

I've only ever beaten it once, so some of the details were lost on me.

Back to Heroes 2, I'm always at a bit of a dilemma with Heroes 2 through 4. 3 is arguably the most well crafted, with 4 having a, to me, fun RPG side to it, but Heroes 2 is the hands down prettiest of the three. So much craft has been put into every animation, and it all comes down much more organic than 3's amalgamation of 3D rendered models and 2D backgrounds. I've been told that "painterly" is a word that describes 2's style? I would personally just say that it's just pixel-based spritework done perfectly. So much good stuff has come out of putting small squares next to each other, it's crazy to me considering the SVGA limits they had.

The dilemma being which is the better. It's 2 or 3, obviously, but is it 3 for its refined gameplay or 2 for its overwhelming charm? Logic would dictate that gameplay trumps anything, but.. It's not easy, really!

This, but replace 4 with 5 for me. I thought 4 was hideous.

5 is bright and goofy, and has wizards from a laputan Agrabah with the Weatherlight. Good enough for me.

Incidentally, I wonder if one could mod all the djinn-associated sound effects to pertinent Robin Williams clips.

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013

THE BAR posted:

I've only ever beaten it once, so some of the details were lost on me.

Back to Heroes 2, I'm always at a bit of a dilemma with Heroes 2 through 4. 3 is arguably the most well crafted, with 4 having a, to me, fun RPG side to it, but Heroes 2 is the hands down prettiest of the three. So much craft has been put into every animation, and it all comes down much more organic than 3's amalgamation of 3D rendered models and 2D backgrounds. I've been told that "painterly" is a word that describes 2's style? I would personally just say that it's just pixel-based spritework done perfectly. So much good stuff has come out of putting small squares next to each other, it's crazy to me considering the SVGA limits they had.

The dilemma being which is the better. It's 2 or 3, obviously, but is it 3 for its refined gameplay or 2 for its overwhelming charm? Logic would dictate that gameplay trumps anything, but.. It's not easy, really!

Keep in mind, I've only played Heroes 3 base game while I was younger and thus even worse at the game then I am now.

But was Heroes3 really that much better in balance than Heroes2? We already covered the grail structures. Angels are broken as can be and fortress and barbarians are terrible compared to the others.

I think that I personally find both to be nearly equal. :shrug: But I just LOVE beautiful painterly perfect pixel art.


An update is probably going up tomorrow.

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

Darth TNT posted:

Keep in mind, I've only played Heroes 3 base game while I was younger and thus even worse at the game then I am now.

But was Heroes3 really that much better in balance than Heroes2? We already covered the grail structures. Angels are broken as can be and fortress and barbarians are terrible compared to the others.

I think that I personally find both to be nearly equal. :shrug: But I just LOVE beautiful painterly perfect pixel art.


An update is probably going up tomorrow.

People always underestimate Fortress, but it does have some excellent heroes and the ability to churn out Wyverns on day 3, if you're playing on normal against other players, giving you a good lead at the start!

While (Arch)Angels -are- ludicrously good, the Titans and Black Dragons are still mathematically better, with their much higher attack and defence ratings, with the dragons coming out on top in any 1 v 1 situation. The problem with the Castle faction is that their early units are really, really good early game units, while also having one of the best lategame units as well. Add to the fact that any sane player would pick Loynis and his bonus Prayer spell, further exacerbating the problem.

The Stronghold's probably the weakest faction, if it wasn't for the fact that Inferno existed, and Ancient Behemoths being able to completely obliterate any other tier 7 unit, if given the chance. -80% defence rating hurts. A lot. Shame that their other units are either too weak or their dwellings too expensive. It's not uncommon to get Behemoths before Cyclopses, their tier 6 ranged unit.

About Inferno.. Eeeeh.. They have multiple problems. One being their units either being underpowered or prohibitively average, with only the Arch Devils being the third fastest unit in the game and Efreets being alright for what they are. The other is the fact that upgrading certain units either does nothing noteworthy (Pit Fiend to Pit Lord giving only +1 speed and a next to useless ability) or actively hurt you more than it helps with Magogs throwing fireballs that can hurt most of your own units as well. The last problem being more of a pet peeve of mine, as their mage guild is more inclined to offer fire spells, of which I rarely use any. Fire spells have some offensive capabilities in stuff like Frenzy, but their direct damage spells are all outclassed by earth and air spells, especially when you consider the awesome utility you get from those two as well. Blind and Curse are two extremely useful spells, but they're low level and you rarely go a game without stumbling upon them.

What I do like about Heroes 3 that 2 lacks is the heroes themselves, as they have personal boons, whereas everyone is interchangeable in H2. Both games have excellent music, with H3 having a naturally better quality sound to it. Actually, one reason -not- to play as Castle in H3 could be that their town's music's the weakest of them all!

With that said, I'm sure we can agree on them both being good games, and mostly for the same reasons!

THE BAR fucked around with this message at 09:30 on May 19, 2015

kvx687
Dec 29, 2009

Soiled Meat

Tanith posted:

This, but replace 4 with 5 for me. I thought 4 was hideous.

5 is bright and goofy, and has wizards from a laputan Agrabah with the Weatherlight. Good enough for me.

Incidentally, I wonder if one could mod all the djinn-associated sound effects to pertinent Robin Williams clips.
I like the concept of 5, but the actual gameplay was kind of mediocre; between the utterly idiotic story, a weak campaign, and the skill system that was so obtuse you could never hope to even figure out the ultimate skills existed without a guide, it was kind of a letdown. The expansions helped some, but it was too little too late for me. Also, Ashan is just a straight boring setting compared to Enroth or even Axeoth.
No, the fact that I suck at it doesn't affect my opinion at all.

Darth TNT posted:

Keep in mind, I've only played Heroes 3 base game while I was younger and thus even worse at the game then I am now.

But was Heroes3 really that much better in balance than Heroes2? We already covered the grail structures. Angels are broken as can be and fortress and barbarians are terrible compared to the others.

I think that I personally find both to be nearly equal. :shrug: But I just LOVE beautiful painterly perfect pixel art.


An update is probably going up tomorrow.

I've always been pretty terrible at 3, so I can't speak for balance. That said, I think a big reason 3 is so much more popular is because of how utterly massive it was in comparison. It had about triple the creature count, as many campaigns in the base game as 2 and its expansion put together, a complete revamp of the artifact system, a better hero and skill design, a more complex map editor, all kinds of stuff. 2 is better looking, but it comes off as pretty small in retrospect.

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013

THE BAR posted:

People always underestimate Fortress, but it does have some excellent heroes and the ability to churn out Wyverns on day 3, if you're playing on normal against other players, giving you a good lead at the start!

While (Arch)Angels -are- ludicrously good, the Titans and Black Dragons are still mathematically better, with their much higher attack and defence ratings, with the dragons coming out on top in any 1 v 1 situation. The problem with the Castle faction is that their early units are really, really good early game units, while also having one of the best lategame units as well. Add to the fact that any sane player would pick Loynis and his bonus Prayer spell, further exacerbating the problem.

The Stronghold's probably the weakest faction, if it wasn't for the fact that Inferno existed, and Ancient Behemoths being able to completely obliterate any other tier 7 unit, if given the chance. -80% defence rating hurts. A lot. Shame that their other units are either too weak or their dwellings too expensive. It's not uncommon to get Behemoths before Cyclopses, their tier 6 ranged unit.

About Inferno.. Eeeeh.. They have multiple problems. One being their units either being underpowered or prohibitively average, with only the Arch Devils being the third fastest unit in the game and Efreets being alright for what they are. The other is the fact that upgrading certain units either does nothing noteworthy (Pit Fiend to Pit Lord giving only +1 speed and a next to useless ability) or actively hurt you more than it helps with Magogs throwing fireballs that can hurt most of your own units as well. The last problem being more of a pet peeve of mine, as their mage guild is more inclined to offer fire spells, of which I rarely use any. Fire spells have some offensive capabilities in stuff like Frenzy, but their direct damage spells are all outclassed by earth and air spells, especially when you consider the awesome utility you get from those two as well. Blind and Curse are two extremely useful spells, but they're low level and you rarely go a game without stumbling upon them.

What I do like about Heroes 3 that 2 lacks is the heroes themselves, as they have personal boons, whereas everyone is interchangeable in H2. Both games have excellent music, with H3 having a naturally better quality sound to it. Actually, one reason -not- to play as Castle in H3 could be that their town's music's the weakest of them all!

With that said, I'm sure we can agree on them both being good games, and mostly for the same reasons!

I always found Behemoths to be pretty fragile (despite having 300hp) and really slow for level 7 units, which always pissed me off. I love the concept of those things. They just look pretty awesome, but I feel like they should've been slightly cheaper to get.

Oh right, I forgot about them, but I dislike inferno as well. The magogs being able to hurt even the fire resistant Efreets always felt like a bug. Especially now that the undead can ignore the lich death cloud (which has the second best sound effect in all heroes games :hb:). I want to consider the cerberus as one of their crutch units as well. Any creature with no retaliation and proper offensive stats is annoying to fight against.
I can't be the only one that adores the Archdevils idle animation. :allears: It's one of the little heroes2 touches that survived into heroes3.

We can certainly agree on both games being good. :hf:

kvx687 posted:

I like the concept of 5, but the actual gameplay was kind of mediocre; between the utterly idiotic story, a weak campaign, and the skill system that was so obtuse you could never hope to even figure out the ultimate skills existed without a guide, it was kind of a letdown. The expansions helped some, but it was too little too late for me. Also, Ashan is just a straight boring setting compared to Enroth or even Axeoth.
No, the fact that I suck at it doesn't affect my opinion at all.

I've always been pretty terrible at 3, so I can't speak for balance. That said, I think a big reason 3 is so much more popular is because of how utterly massive it was in comparison. It had about triple the creature count, as many campaigns in the base game as 2 and its expansion put together, a complete revamp of the artifact system, a better hero and skill design, a more complex map editor, all kinds of stuff. 2 is better looking, but it comes off as pretty small in retrospect.

The size difference can't be overstated no. Heroes3 is absolutely huge in more ways than one. I'll always miss the ability to wear three pairs of boots with the same hero. :smith:

If you want to compare worlds between Ashan and Enroth/Axeoth, you should try and do that without taking the might and magic games into account.
My own introduction to the mythologie of might and magic came much much later than my introduction into the Heroes of might and magic world. To me Heroes always had a very simple yet serviceable world of good versus evil. Coming from Heroes 2 where it's literally good vs evil and into heroes3 where they tried to tell a story (which I never finished because I suck(ed)), it's still just a simple medieval setting.

Ashan is trying much harder to be interesting even without delving into a load of other games. I'm just not that fond of the setting they're making, they're trying very hard to make a fairly generic setting interesting. Sometimes, making a world just serviceable is enough for a game.

Of course, when you factor in the backdrop introduced in the might and magic games I find myself suddenly very interested and find the new world to be very "flat".

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

Don't forget how ungodly slow Heroes 5 runs on any machine. The AI's turns take a really long time, even when they don't get the bug that causes them to sit and wait out their turn limit. The AI does fortunately have one but it's set to 3 minutes. Have fun with that.

But the game does have lots of overpowered and broken things you can do. Like the vampirism spell gives your troops back % of damage dealt as health depending on your spellpower and it's not difficult to get it above 100%.

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

Darth TNT posted:

I always found Behemoths to be pretty fragile (despite having 300hp) and really slow for level 7 units, which always pissed me off. I love the concept of those things. They just look pretty awesome, but I feel like they should've been slightly cheaper to get.

Oh right, I forgot about them, but I dislike inferno as well. The magogs being able to hurt even the fire resistant Efreets always felt like a bug. Especially now that the undead can ignore the lich death cloud (which has the second best sound effect in all heroes games :hb:). I want to consider the cerberus as one of their crutch units as well. Any creature with no retaliation and proper offensive stats is annoying to fight against.
I can't be the only one that adores the Archdevils idle animation. :allears: It's one of the little heroes2 touches that survived into heroes3.

Coming from Heroes 2 where it's literally good vs evil and into heroes3 where they tried to tell a story (which I never finished because I suck(ed)), it's still just a simple medieval setting.


Behemoths are a force multiplier, but the rest of the town has almost nothing to make use of it. Thunderbirds are your fastest unit, but 11 speed's still painfully slow, meaning that you'll never get to fire off that crucial haste, teleport or mass slow your Behemoths so sorely need. Behemoths do make excellent additions to other heroes, though!

Yeah, the only really -good- Inferno units are the Cerberus and Efreet, with the Cerberus falling behind due to its slow speed and the Efreet being a bit too squishy for a unit that's supposed to take a hit.

Don't worry about the Heroes 3 campaigns; the majority of them are pretty hard unless you already know where to go.

Poil posted:

But the game does have lots of overpowered and broken things you can do. Like the vampirism spell gives your troops back % of damage dealt as health depending on your spellpower and it's not difficult to get it above 100%.

This reminds me of the Vampirism spell in Heroes 4.. Sure, turn my Bone Dragons (who make their target flee a few steps, making retaliation impossible) into vampires for the entire battle, I can't see anything wrong in that! :haw:

But that's what I like about Heroes 4! Order heroes can beat the game by having nothing but a Titan as cloning material with them, Nature heroes can skulk around in stealth, popping out and summon a legion of top tier units, while the Might hero's a one-man army, no units needed at all! Of course, it's not really the same as the previous games, as Heroes can win entire games by themselves, but that makes for a stronger RPG experience, which many map creators have taken advantage of.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

THE BAR posted:

This reminds me of the Vampirism spell in Heroes 4.. Sure, turn my Bone Dragons (who make their target flee a few steps, making retaliation impossible) into vampires for the entire battle, I can't see anything wrong in that! :haw:

But that's what I like about Heroes 4! Order heroes can beat the game by having nothing but a Titan as cloning material with them, Nature heroes can skulk around in stealth, popping out and summon a legion of top tier units, while the Might hero's a one-man army, no units needed at all! Of course, it's not really the same as the previous games, as Heroes can win entire games by themselves, but that makes for a stronger RPG experience, which many map creators have taken advantage of.
Yeah, but at least in HoMM4 the spell is actually balanced and only ever gives 50% lifedrain, just like the vampires do. Death also have the hilarious plague, poison and aura of fear spells. The first two deals damage every turn for the entire battle unless cured (poison is single target and plague is everyone who is not from the Death faction, they stack gloriously). The latter gives the no retaliation ability unless the enemy can't be scared (such as undead, mechanical or things immune to mind affects).

Technically you don't even need to (t)roll around with a titan as a powerful order mage because you can just clone the enemy's creatures. As long as they have anything worth cloning of course, that's not a black dragon. The only game in the series to have flavor text for every spell. They are even written by different characters depending on which school of magic they are from.

quote:

Poison
You have to agree , there is nothing quite as appealing as gloating over your enemy as they die ever so slowly.

Fire Bolt
Set your enemies on fire, light a campfire, or roast a duck - it's an all purpose spell!

Slow
When a charging enemy suddenly feels a tremendous weight on his back, he can only slow his pace to compensate even if there is nothing there to explain this unusual heaviness.

Bind Wounds
In my youth, I followed armies in the hospital wagons. There were so many of us, acolytes with no powers except the ability to close the wounds of the injured.

Giant Strength
She was a little old woman. No one expected any trouble from her. Before we knew it, three of us had broken arms!

I love Heroes 4. Sure it has its flaws but it's still a fun game. :)

Sloober
Apr 1, 2011

THE BAR posted:

Behemoths are a force multiplier, but the rest of the town has almost nothing to make use of it. Thunderbirds are your fastest unit, but 11 speed's still painfully slow, meaning that you'll never get to fire off that crucial haste, teleport or mass slow your Behemoths so sorely need. Behemoths do make excellent additions to other heroes, though!

Yeah, the only really -good- Inferno units are the Cerberus and Efreet, with the Cerberus falling behind due to its slow speed and the Efreet being a bit too squishy for a unit that's supposed to take a hit.

Don't worry about the Heroes 3 campaigns; the majority of them are pretty hard unless you already know where to go.


This reminds me of the Vampirism spell in Heroes 4.. Sure, turn my Bone Dragons (who make their target flee a few steps, making retaliation impossible) into vampires for the entire battle, I can't see anything wrong in that! :haw:

But that's what I like about Heroes 4! Order heroes can beat the game by having nothing but a Titan as cloning material with them, Nature heroes can skulk around in stealth, popping out and summon a legion of top tier units, while the Might hero's a one-man army, no units needed at all! Of course, it's not really the same as the previous games, as Heroes can win entire games by themselves, but that makes for a stronger RPG experience, which many map creators have taken advantage of.

I really enjoyed the HoMM3 campaigns but yeah, some of them are brutally difficult or rely on trick shenanigans and/or perfect build orders. The first 2-3 are ok though for sure, i don't recall which it is but the one that you control inferno and have to take a massively built up haven town with a hero that has legions of critters is harsh, considering you can never catch up to their numbers. I ended up luring the hero out with a trash hero and storming in to take the undefended town with a logistics expert that also had some +move items.

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

Poil posted:

Yeah, but at least in HoMM4 the spell is actually balanced and only ever gives 50% lifedrain, just like the vampires do. Death also have the hilarious plague, poison and aura of fear spells. The first two deals damage every turn for the entire battle unless cured (poison is single target and plague is everyone who is not from the Death faction, they stack gloriously). The latter gives the no retaliation ability unless the enemy can't be scared (such as undead, mechanical or things immune to mind affects).

Technically you don't even need to (t)roll around with a titan as a powerful order mage because you can just clone the enemy's creatures. As long as they have anything worth cloning of course, that's not a black dragon. The only game in the series to have flavor text for every spell. They are even written by different characters depending on which school of magic they are from.


I love Heroes 4. Sure it has its flaws but it's still a fun game. :)

It was balanced in the fact that every faction had something equally overpowered! :eng101:

And yes, you could just romp around on your own as an Order mage, no doubt about it, but it was also fun how Genies' and your own clone spell stacked!

Immortality potions do ruin the game a bit, those really should be just one per encounter. As long as your beefy ranger/barbarian can survive two entire deaths per round, he can retaliate kick anything to death.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE
My favorite HoMM4 memory was roaming around with my nature hero who generated a ton of troops each turn. Who needs towns to recruit units?

Guildenstern Mother
Mar 31, 2010

Why walk when you can ride?

Darth TNT posted:

I can't be the only one that adores the Archdevils idle animation. :allears: It's one of the little heroes2 touches that survived into heroes3.


Pit lord idle is also top tier animation. I'll never get tired of watching them scratch their butts.

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

Torrannor posted:

My favorite HoMM4 memory was roaming around with my nature hero who generated a ton of troops each turn. Who needs towns to recruit units?

It's always fun picking up scouting. Being 100% invisible on the world map lets you do some crazy stuff!

Lokapala
Jan 6, 2013
Since we're talking about awesome little things, this was always one the best things about HoMM3 for me. It has the power to turn the Dragon Slayer campaign from bullshit slog through insurmountable terrain into a relaxing stroll through beautiful woods.

The_PC_Snob
Nov 22, 2012

Mario? Never
heard of him.

THE BAR posted:

Immortality potions do ruin the game a bit, those really should be just one per encounter. As long as your beefy ranger/barbarian can survive two entire deaths per round, he can retaliate kick anything to death.


I love it how equipping a Might hero with a ranged weapon makes it so they ditch their melee weapon, and therefore deal with melee enemies another way. Usually, by kicking.

Killing two dragons a kick will always be one of the most awesomely wrong things in all gaming.

Heroes III has very weird imbalances, but the gist is: Haven is imbalanced because they are strong in the early, mid and late-game, only becoming stronger as the game progresses, while Inferno is weak because it only get good creatures at it's highest tiers... and only to be brought all the way from weak (or even useless) to mediocre; so they're weak at the early game (where Imps die in droves and Magogs can't dent a wet towel), weak in the mid-game (where Demons and Pitlords are slow, with no useful specials, and weak) and ok in the late game (where the Devils' UPGRADE is a good Tier 7 that can be abused and the Efreet can finally actually hurt something, while both of them at last give some maneuverability to the faction).

Fortress is very weird, but even though they are generally weak they have some of the most powerful specials in the whole game. The Gorgon's death stare is a Tier 7 killer about as effective as the "everything-is-a-wet-towel-Behemoths" and "enjoy-your-100-damage-per-creature-Ghost-Dragon" (it is almost as powerful as the Genies' completely broken Heroes I - II special, but more likely to trigger, even if the damage doesn't instantly translates into a weaker stack). The Petrification is still a very powerful special (essentially the same as the unicorn's equally powerful blind). Gnolls are solid Tier 1. Dragon Flies have a nifty debuff with Weaken (so you want them to "spread the love") and utility with their instant dispel. And their Hydras are as powerful as Hydras always been, except with legs now! They can be an early game monster if allowed.

Just a head's up, some unlucky events will delay my update... I'm fine, just my arm is a bit down under the weather.

The_PC_Snob fucked around with this message at 09:47 on May 20, 2015

Guildenstern Mother
Mar 31, 2010

Why walk when you can ride?
The other great thing about fortress is the sky high defense on most of their creatures, which when paired with expert armomer makes them take forever to kill. That said if you can't get the teleport spell good luck ever using your hydras for anything ever.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

Units that never die are fun to have, but really frustrating to fight. Trying to fight strong defense and weak attack creatures with the same is just dreadful.

The_PC_Snob posted:

I love it how equipping a Might hero with a ranged weapon makes it so they ditch their melee weapon, and therefore deal with melee enemies another way. Usually, by kicking.

Killing two dragons a kick will always be one of the most awesomely wrong things in all gaming.

Heroes III has very weird imbalances, but the gist is: Haven is imbalanced because they are strong in the early, mid and late-game, only becoming stronger as the game progresses, while Inferno is weak because it only get good creatures at it's highest tiers... and only to be brought all the way from weak (or even useless) to mediocre; so they're weak at the early game (where Imps die in droves and Magogs can't dent a wet towel), weak in the mid-game (where Demons and Pitlords are slow, with no useful specials, and weak) and ok in the late game (where the Devils' UPGRADE is a good Tier 7 that can be abused and the Efreet can finally actually hurt something, while both of them at last give some maneuverability to the faction).

Fortress is very weird, but even though they are generally weak they have some of the most powerful specials in the whole game. The Gorgon's death stare is a Tier 7 killer about as effective as the "everything-is-a-wet-towel-Behemoths" and "enjoy-your-100-damage-per-creature-Ghost-Dragon" (it is almost as powerful as the Genies' completely broken Heroes I - II special, but more likely to trigger, even if the damage doesn't instantly translates into a weaker stack). The Petrification is still a very powerful skill (essentially the same as the unicorn's equally powerful blind). Gongs are solid Tier 1. Dragon Flies have a nifty debuff with Weaken (so you want them to "spread the love") and utility with their instant dispel. And their Hydras are as powerful as Hydras always been, except with legs now! They can be an early game monster if allowed.

Just a head's up, some unlucky events will delay my update... I'm fine, just my arm is a bit down under the weather.
The knight heroes (life might) keep their melee weapon, they just gain a crossbow on their back. But when it comes to awesome melee attacks you don't get much better than the sorcerer and sorceress. Standing backflip and Matrix styled slow motion jumping crane kick. Their ranged attacks are kinda neat too.

When it comes to spreading love, Heroes 4 ghosts are fun. Not as dangerous as Heroes 2 ghosts obviously, but they give Aging to everything they attack. -25% attack skill, -20% defense skill, -50% speed and movement. Come to think of it, demons are the crappier option in Heroes 4 too.

While Fortress is probably my second favorite HoMM3 faction (after Dungeon) I also really like HoMM5 fortress. It changes from swamp monsters to dwarves. And the dwarves have bear cavalry and giant teleporting dwarves with massive hammerthings that do a chain lightning effect to other nearby enemies when they attack.

Try a healing or cure spell. :v:

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

Poil posted:

Come to think of it, demons are the crappier option in Heroes 4 too.

Yeah, I had a comp stomp with my brother last week, figured I might as well try out an all-daemon composition.. Huge mistake, those things are terrible! I mean, they do have Venom Spawns, but come on, they share the same tier as Vampires. You also lose out on the natural synergy your spellcasters get with necromancy!

Dr_Gee
Apr 26, 2008
I generally liked Devils' teleporting and with maxed Necromancy you can do Venom Spawn since you're generating boatloads of Vampires naturally anyways, but aside from that the demon units were trash.

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

Nah! A little chocolate will do




I had realised today that I never really played HoMM4 because by the time my family REALLY got into Heroes games the only version of 4 that we could find was the expansion, and of course you can't play the expansion without the base game so that was pretty loving useless.

Thankfully, the Humble Bundle gave me Heroes 4 so now I get to actually see how much of a departure from the previous Heroes games it was. Someone once described it as similar to the Warlords games, can people confirm or deny that?

The_PC_Snob
Nov 22, 2012

Mario? Never
heard of him.
I'm traditional, I'm afraid. Whenever I play Heroes IV with Death I configure Necromancy to raise Skeletons instead (with equilibris). Well, unless I need more ghosts to spread the love of geriatric diapers.

It still is fun to lug around over a thousand of these tier 1 bastards and they're still very receptive to buffs.

The Undead Transformer is also good to bloat the skeleton numbers, once you have a secondary castle and start turning both T1 creatures from there. Heck, I don't even bother with Imps, MOAR SKELETONS!

Aces High posted:

Thankfully, the Humble Bundle gave me Heroes 4 so now I get to actually see how much of a departure from the previous Heroes games it was. Someone once described it as similar to the Warlords games, can people confirm or deny that?

Hmmm... both series were always a bit similar, but I wouldn't go as far as say Heroes IV is closer to Warlords. Warlords has a VERY different take on strategy and tactics.

The thing that might take you off-guard the most is the fog-of-war. Scouting is crucial and flagged structures will give you more of a head's up, but otherwise you're not omnipotent anymore wherever you already explored and this changes the strategical part of the game a LOT. Some like to make loads of T1 creatures and stuff them in key spots, however, since you can send creatures alone in the adventure map.

The_PC_Snob fucked around with this message at 04:21 on May 20, 2015

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

Venom Spawns are a really good unit, but vampires are just better and you get more vampires through grandmaster necromancy. Devils are about as good as bone dragons so there's nothing wrong with picking either one. Cerberus aren't particularly good, especially not when the alternative is a ghost. Imps are indeed crap and fodder until you hire a third hero in the army and you send them through the undead transformer to make room for the chaos or order magic hero.

I really liked the hero classes. For example, If you combine Death and Nature magic you get the Demonologist class with its horribly overpowered +50% to the summon demon spells. You unlock those spells just through picking the skills. Best use of demons is just to call them in for free when you need them. Highest level gives you a bunch of devils every time you cast it.

You don't need to change the skill I think, if you don't have any space to put the ghosts or vampires it'll raise skeletons instead. If you have no space at all for any of them it'll raise them in a separate army (a bit of a hassle if you use those units of course). Just like the Summoning skill, if you only have space for elves in your army it'll summon elves and no elementals or tigers or whatever.

Poil fucked around with this message at 09:46 on May 20, 2015

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013
Update 3

Last time I wanted to take the enemy castle, but was too scared to go through with it after the enemy hero dropped off some zombies. I got better.

Day 32

Where was I…oh yes.


That rock isn’t destroying the top part, just damaging it. However thanks to the ballistics skill a second shot follows and destroys it giving the Archmages clear shot of the royal mummies.


But first a lightning bolt on the mutant zombies. Why? Because I don’t feel like walking all the way over. The vampires can come to us on their own power.


Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.


That was easy.


Well, Dawn is the primary hero, so scouting isn’t all that bad of a choice.


Welcome to Willow, one of the necromancer homes. It’s fairly well built and even better, I can upgrade the mansion and buy some vampire lords before taking out the hero parked in front.


Thanks to the medal I found earlier this only drops my morale back to neutral. Normally living units apparently don't like working with dead cousin Ted.


Wait a minute I can recognize an enemy horse rear end any day of the week. Look closely and you too can spot another enemy hero near the left edge.


That’s quite a lot of skeletons you have there, would be a shame if they were to suddenly die again.
A quick lightning bolt on the mummies to kill four of them.


They blind my rocs and I shoot their skeletons knocking them down from 60 to 19.


My pigs easily best their pigs from behind.


I don’t think I ever noticed before, but apparently the vampire lords eyes turn red when they attack. They’re yellowish otherwise. I love little details like that.


One vampire lord died to the skeletons, who hit really hard for a level 1 unit. Fortunately, this isn’t Heroes3 and the vampire sucks enough blood from the skeletons to rise back from the dead. That makes sense?


I forgot to show off the new spells in my new town. So here’s that.
The only ones we haven’t seen yet are Cure and Death ripple.

Cure: For 6 spell points you can remove all negative spells from a unit of choice and heal their HP for 5 times your spell power. This is probably going to keep my giant alive in the long run.

Death ripple: For 6 spell points you inflict 5 times you spell power in damage to all non-undead creatures on the field. I hope PC Snob will show it off, because it has a simple spell animation that I like. As things currently stand Fineous is going to get the Necromancer units and this spell is pretty useless on him. It’s like a really tiny Armageddon…an armakiddon if you will.

Anyway, I cast another lightning bolt on the mummies.


And with the archmages shooting them again they unravel leaving nothing behind but a bad smell.


The pigs kill the Halflings and victory is mine!


What? :what:


I think I can use that luck now. :ohdear:


:negative: That’s a cursed artifact. Back and slightly more plentiful than ever compared to the first game are the cursed artifacts. There are three artifacts that provide a permanent negative your hero. In this case, this artifact costs me 250 in gold each turn. I want to get rid of it ASAP, but currently have no means to do so. Artifacts can’t be dropped, so all you can do is hire a hero and have it killed.


Of course I’m short. He’s going to reclaim that castle again.


And of course Zam runs around with sprites, because what else goes better with the undead.


It kinda looks like a defense? :shepface: I split them up, hoping that it will take at least two castings of lightning bolt to kill them.


Flints slowly comes closer to claim some mines.


And here he comes.

Also, please join the suspense with some enemy turn music.



Please miss. You wasting time is all part of my plan.


The catapult missed. He cast stone skin on his zombies making them nice and sturdy, but without a way in it’s going to be a war of attrition.


PC Snob already mentioned the Captain, here are his stats again. He knows all spells in the spell book, but with his horrible mana pool he’s not casting too many spells. I like the idea of the captain, but they’re just a little too limited to be worth it.


Disruption ray undoes the stone stone and we skip our turn.


This is what a miss looks like.


It’s no lightning bolt, it’s the next best thing. The enemy knows cold ray. Considering that there isn’t a lightning bolt in the castle that leads me to conclude that the shrine I spotted above the enemy hero teaches it. I’ll visit it at a later date.


The AI tired of my games and thus a second casting of cold ray kills the last zombie.


Well, that was to be expected.

Day 33

Time reclaim what is right fully mine. Note the shrine at the top, that’s the one that will teach me cold ray.


I still have terrible luck with sieges as even with ballistics I still need two shots to kill one wall.
Look at that defending army. However will I manage?

You can also see my cursor in the screenshots. Thanks to the Might and Magic Humble Bundle I can now play Heroes2 on multiple computers without touching my disc. :shepface: Unfortunately, I only noticed later on that I forgot to turn off the mouse cursor in my screenshots on my laptop. I usually do this on my Desktop. Unrelated this is the third time I’ve bought Heroes2. I’m pretty good with money. :smug:


Blah!


I’ll manage like this. I wonder if they bought anything.


And that was the end of Orange.
Flint is already here, so I’m going to have him claim the mines while Dawn heads out again. I’ll have Fineous the not-Kelzen meet her somewhere to provide some extra units.


I wonder what that hut will teach, but it's a low prio for me.

Day 34

The shrine next to the encampment teaches curse. Being the opposite of bless, that’s nice. I think I prefer bless. My units are pretty sturdy, so they can take the hit.


It teaches scouting.


Those pudding like guys are Water elementals. They have the best walking sound. We can take them, but I think I’ll let them be.


Fineous the not-Kelzen is near the open area in the middle, it will take Dawn about two turns to get there. After that, we’ll have Dawn attack the next castle.


As expected, that shrine teaches cold ray, the lesser brother of lightning bolt.

Cold Ray: For 6 spell points you can attack one enemy with a beam of cold, doing 20 times your spell power in damage. It’s 1 spell point cheaper for 5 damage per spell point less than lightning bolt. I prefer lightning bolt.

Day 35

Fineous the not-Kelzen is getting some extra knowledge from the witchdoctor while he waits for Dawn.
Flint is waiting around for a bit. I’m going to wait three days after which I’ll purchase my upgraded sky castle to get titans. After that it’s his turn to get an army.

Day 36

Ignore the hand, that’s a graphical glitch caused by the screenshotting. No idea why. This also only happens on my laptop and not on my desktop.
I had almost forgotten about the taxlien. Better give that to Fineous the not-Kelzen so he can give it to a new friend.

Day 37

Dawn visited the witchdoctor hut and now let’s claim that scary sulfur mine.


Titans! The sky castle gets some gold trimming and two larger towers. Now to get them to Dawn at some point.

day 38

Dawn desperately needs new spell points, so she’s going for a quick detour to the well. I was right about the mine, it was flagged. Flagged by green, so they will have to be our next target.

Day 39

Note how much larger her green mana bar is near her portrait. She was thirsty.


Meet my new hero Myrini. She’s our sacrificial lamb. She just delivered two titans to Fineous the not-Kelzen who traded her for it with the tax lien. A fair trade if I ever saw one. I just noticed that Myrini has another skill going on, weird since she’s level 1. The AI must’ve had her at some point and lost her to some Artificial Stupidity.


I finally noticed that I’m drowning in wood and ore, so I bought a market place in both my towns.


Trading in progress. I’ll use the money to outfit Flint with some units.


An army takes shape.

Day 40

Dawn is going to get those two titans and then we’ll finish this map.

Day 41

She also got his three boars.


Meet Ranloo the Necromancer. He doesn’t sparkle, but I’m pretty sure he’s a vampire.


Indeed, still no army for Flint. Necromancer units really like having a necromancer hero. Flint will be following Dawn again. :hush: Flint is also one of the heroes I irrationally dislike, but not on the same level of Maximus. :argh:

Day 42

I just saw an enemy run past.


Tracks are fresh, the mushrooms are still warm. :drugs:


These are her last moments for us.


I want that shield, because I just don’t have that many artifacts yet.


We can easily handle one of the worst units in the game, so we follow.


So how about those Titans?

[img]
Titans are the ultimate wizard unit and possibly the ultimate Heroes2 unit. Though personally I think black dragons are better. Tied with the black dragons for the most HP they improve on the giants in every conceivable way. The speed goes from average to very fast, they get a ranged attack, they suffer no melee penalty, they are immune to mind spells and get a sizeable increase to their attack and defense skills making them the highest in the game. However they aren’t immune to magic like the dragons, which is both a blessing (possibly literally) and a curse (possibly literally).
They are also still ridiculously expensive costing 5.000 and 2 gems per titan.

They also come complete with some badass sound effects, [url= http://tindeck.com/listen/oyaub ]listen to the getting hit and striking back.[/url] I had to record this on my PC at a later time, so this is them getting hit by and retaliating against zombies.


Now about that shield.


We just struck gold. Diplomacy is often seen as one of the most broken skills, meanwhile Archery works miracles with the range dependant Wizard faction. I’ll take archery.
Archery adds a +10% increase to damage at basic level, 25% at advanced and 50% at expert level.


It adds a +2 to our defense.


Come one! Take your best shot!


And that’s how you use orcs and possibly get rid of cursed artifacts.

Day 43

I considered attacking the zombies, but the Gazebo isn’t going to help me much.


I found Crodo and he has an…army?

Day 44

Couldn’t stay away from me could you? :smuggo: That's okay, ignoring the weird :catstare: you've got going on you look pretty okay yourself.


This army is so bad I’m not certain what I should even attack first.


So my Boars are feeling lucky.


Like really lucky, probably because they don’t know what’s for dinner.


See you next castle!


The ring of elementals halves the cost of summoning spells. Nice, if I had elemental summing spells.


A lucky clover adds a +1 to luck, also nice but since Dawn has the luck skill it will soon be obsolete.


This will be short.


Really short.


Tough choice. Take the enemy castle or take the purse from the elves.


Fineous the not-Kelzen returns home and discovers the price of upgrading for giants and this is just a single one. I still do it though since I have money to spare.

Day 45

This first level is really easy so far.


Did you know going through doors works best when they’re open? This goes for all types of doors, glass, wood, you name it. Of note is that Morglin invented the drawbridges! Behold one of the greatest technological advancements since Heroes1, where a defending hero was stuck inside the walls until the walls were brought down by the enemy. The drawbridge automatically opens when a unit wants to go through and closes when it has passed. You can however jam the drawbridge by putting a corpse on top of it.


Victory!


Stop offering me Eagle Eye.


Two down one to go. The forces of good will prevail. I’ll bet that in some alternate universe Archibald is having a much harder time.


That’s a really sad example of a barbarian castle. I'll let PC Snob post the music to this faction, instead just imagine some impressive opera singing.


Because I can I bought another level of mage guild here and off we go take on the last castle.
Holy word: The exact opposite of death ripple. For 9 spell points you can do damage to all undead units on the field for 10 times your spell power.
Mass haste: For 10 spell points you can cast haste on all your units at the same time. As a reminder, this adds two levels to their speed. This is a great spell.


Flint comes along to flag everything.


Let’s give the undead something to do.

Day 46

Run along now Dawn, there’s more stuff to kill.


Time to test out the undead.


That’s a group of 66 FroDos. :downsrim: (no one is going to get this)


And yet I don’t see any problems.


We cast death ripple, because why not. Note that the necromancer on the horse casts spells by slamming his fists together.


Victory, now for my skeletons.


These halflings didn’t drink enough milk. I was hoping for more skeletons.


That’s pretty neat, thank you witch!


So Zam is back as well? How amusing. Anyway, according to this he is a builder. We’ll see what kind of castle he has then next time.

Next update we finish this map…probably.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
I wonder if the AI in Heroes 2 will turn out to be more of a challenge than in 1, because I remember in 1 you pretty much had no challenges.

The_PC_Snob
Nov 22, 2012

Mario? Never
heard of him.

PurpleXVI posted:

I wonder if the AI in Heroes 2 will turn out to be more of a challenge than in 1, because I remember in 1 you pretty much had no challenges.

The AI is better, both in the adventure map and in the battle map. But what will really up the challenge from Heroes 1 is that they are better scripted to screw you over in the campaign missions. I for one, have a couple of missions I'm dreading preemptively. In one you start much weaker than the opponent and you have to rush him for a certain something... and the AI will just plain start guessing and eventually get it right at some point. In another the AI starts with several well-developed castles (and one fully developed) and several high-level Might Heroes to go with them... while I won't even start with a castle and will have to bring my heroes from the ground up like a chump. I tell you, fighting a bunch of level 8 Knights with a level 1-3 Warlock before you even have the resources for a decent Mage's Guild just plain sucks.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

That sounds like a lot of fun. Have they started with the bullshit one way teleporters the Heroes games have such a raging hard on for?

Locking down the drawbridge with a corpse never stops being funny.

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013

PurpleXVI posted:

I wonder if the AI in Heroes 2 will turn out to be more of a challenge than in 1, because I remember in 1 you pretty much had no challenges.

The last level was about to become challenging, but I was just in time. I actually went back and waited two days before going after the last castle to see what would have happened. The barbarians arrived and were repulsed. But in a hilarious twist of fate the sorceress faction hired non other than Kelzen who dimension doored past me with a force sufficient to take over my second knight castle and/or warlock castle. Meanwhile, they had a force back at their own castle that I didn't manage to beat after my usual ballistics luck and liberal application of berserk. :negative: I considered making a "what if" update, but then I suddenly heard Heroes2's siren song. :allears:


The_PC_Snob posted:

The AI is better, both in the adventure map and in the battle map. But what will really up the challenge from Heroes 1 is that they are better scripted to screw you over in the campaign missions. I for one, have a couple of missions I'm dreading preemptively. In one you start much weaker than the opponent and you have to rush him for a certain something... and the AI will just plain start guessing and eventually get it right at some point. In another the AI starts with several well-developed castles (and one fully developed) and several high-level Might Heroes to go with them... while I won't even start with a castle and will have to bring my heroes from the ground up like a chump. I tell you, fighting a bunch of level 8 Knights with a level 1-3 Warlock before you even have the resources for a decent Mage's Guild just plain sucks.

Wait, I don't remember that...what have I gotten myself into? :gonk:

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

Nah! A little chocolate will do




luckily for you, Darth, you don't have to worry because it is Archibald's campaign where those hard missions are. I remember both of those missions and thinking to myself "why did I choose this path and not the other one? Oh well"

The_PC_Snob
Nov 22, 2012

Mario? Never
heard of him.
General Snob, Mission 1, Part 3
JAFFA, FLEE!


Day 20


“General, I've been attacked on the Knight's castle! The opposing knight produced a strange staff from his back-pack that fired a beam of light that fried two of my cavalry!”

:supaburn:

“I was afraid that he'd get to you before Sandro got to him... that's the only reason I allowed you to hire these cavalrymen in the first place. If he has such a powerful weapon, I guess you're screwed. Who is he?”



“JAFFA, KREE!”

“A big, dark-skinned guy... he looks at the same time pissed-off and serene... that's as disturbing as a goblin working girl. But it seems his staff is out of charges.”

“Lucky you... that's Tyro, some call him Teal'c, one of the most fearsome knights in all Enroth, behind Kilburn. :fella: He's not from around here, you know? Some say he's a space orc. It's been good knowing you.”

“What? His firepower is already spent, I have plenty of archers in both the towers and behind the walls... and I haven't even unleashed MY magic yet. Do not discard me so easily, general.”



“RIDE THE LIGHTNING! :science:



“Here's a trick I learned from cousin Flench and his friend Fubar.”

“Not every day you find someone able to throw an arrow with his bare hands across the battlefield. :stonk:



“The walls has been breached! The swordsmen killed one of our sisters!”

“Fear not, ladies! I've got a trick saved just for such an occasion!”

:what: There's one still alive. Why haven't you fried both of them with a lightning bolt?”

“Oh... well... you see, :sweatdrop: my magic reserves aren't yet... I've failed, you, ladies!”



“What a bittersweet victory... I've defeated Tyro the Teal'c's army, but at more losses than it could have been.”



“He left his staff behind though... what's this? He had an artifact powering the staff! It is a Mage's Ring of Power, general! With it, I can better protect...”

“Great! Give it to Sandro.”

“... Very well, general. I will give it to the lich...”



“The Yellow lord chased after Tyro the Teal'c demanding he charges my walls single-handed, but the dark-skinned orc seems to be leaving him behind. Without armies to protect his land and no more Knights or other heroes to serve his cause he is nothing more than a straggler now.”

“One down, two to go, and now the advantage is solely mine!”

DAY 21



“Squirrel? I guess we're going to run out of nuts this week, at worst. What's this sound...? Are the sprites back? Take it out of my head! It pierces my heart!”

That's the Grassland's theme for Heroes II. This tune is very special to me. There are two songs I can say, without a shadow of doubt, to have heard in my dreams. And more than once... constantly, in fact. This one, in it's MIDI version, and Might & Magic VI's “Moonlit Snow Adventure” tune. For a while I had forgotten where this song that followed me in my dreams was from, and it really hit me like a rock the first time I reinstalled Heroes II in my teens, booted it up, started a scenario mission, and heard it. I literally wept.



General Snob's Journal posted:

“I've dispatched a band o zombies to hunt down whoever is responsible for that music that's haunting my dreams. I expect them to find it sometime between now and never. Meanwhile, I've dispatched Zam to ransack some nomads in the wrong part of town, who've built quite a treasure cove.

“Relinquish your ill-gotten treasure to Archibald's cause, bandits!”

“You think your imitation dragon scares us? Kill this vampire, men, and then stake him through his black heart, take his riches and add it to ours!”



The nomad is an overall a good neutral. Equivalent to a Tier3, they have good stats, better than most Very Fast units, and have great speed. 20 health is a bit low for a Tier 3, however considering they are rather inexpensive at 200 gold if you manage to find their tent they are well worth it. Their only oddity is their damage, which is one of the most unreliable in the game, so they're greatly affected by Bless or Curse.



“What sorcery is this! I can't see!”

“If you're going to make it hard on yourself, I vill not pass on your blood offering!”



“Skeleton battalion, advance!”

“We did not sign up for this! They're flanking us from all sides!”



“That monstrosity! It is going to kill us, it is going to kill us all!”

“Cover in the face of our powerful Bone Dragons! They're the last thing you vill see.”



“We're really reconsidering our terrible life choices right now...”

“And your last was to choose standing betveen me and my revenge on that horrible gnome!”

“What?”

“Vhat?”



“Victory is ours and ours alone, boss. They had a nifty set-up here, ransacking the peasants trying to flee the warring lands, capturing some to send to the crystal mines for the sprites to work them to death for their psychedelic rocks. And now, it is all ours.”

“Seems like you're finally making yourself useful, Zam. Good work.”



“Goddamn lich. I got this artifact fair and square from the bastard sieging my castle. I held my ground when even the general thought I was a lost cause. And now he gets everything.”

“What's that, genie? Please, grumble and mumble louder so I can hear your misfortune. Mage's Ring, though? Bah! It is not what I seek. Is it possible that none of the artifacts I'm looking for are here in Enroth? Will I need to go back to Antagarich?”

“If it is not what you are looking for... does that mean you can give me my artifact back so I can better protect the women and children of this castle?”





:agesilaus: “Now, skadoodle away from here!”

“I AM WORTHY! :science: OPEN THE DOOR YOU SELF-IMPORTANT RAT! Bastards. This place is well protected. Not even my magic can get through. FINE! I WILL INCREASE MY POWER AND BLAST YOU OUT OF THERE MYSELF!”

“Maybe if you asked nicely.”

“Was that the wind? Or something even less important?”



“Who's a good dragon? You are! Yes, you are!”

:hb:

“Now we hunt food for daddy!”

DAY 22



“I hope the miller worked hard this week. If he doesn't want to become breakfast.”



“drat... this is actually really nice. I guess I will have to pass breakfast.”



“And lunch too? The wee green man just left the gold here for us to take but is nowhere to be seem. Why everyone hates Rialdo? :(



“We saw you around here several days ago! I knew we shouldn't have allowed you to leave and come back in greater numbers, blood-sucker!”

“Ow, but Vampires and Trolls could make such a beautiful friendship! You provide unlimited blood... and ve let you live!”

“Bury them, girls!”



“Have you seem the size of that thing! It will devour us all!”



“Vell, I can't argue vith that. When you're right, you're right.”



“Victory, and their bones, are ours, boss.”



“Having this battle vithout magic vas tough, but I managed. It made me realize I need more magical knowledge, though.”



“Oh, and their gold mine is now ours too, I guess.”



“You're not going to tresspass into the yellow lord's terri... AGH! MY EYES!”

“Sorry, if you think we're trespassing INTO the yellow territory, you're obviously blind. I just corrected that slight. Also, your orders are outdated, the yellow lord is no-more.”

“Does... does that mean we can just go away?”

“Nooo... it means you're MY reinforcements now.”



“You may be powerful, but we are resolute and we outnumber you! Come my brothers!”

“Oh, how droll. You really think you outnumber us? Go, my bone warriors! With the wind under your feet, reveal yourselves out of the trees!”

“That's... that's a lot of bones. :stonk:

“Where?”



“Do you feel resolute still while you're surrounded by all sides? Do you really think you'll be on top, when the dust settles? By now, you must've realized. Hope is fruitless. All that is left is being reborn under my guidance, my power and my command! Skeletons, do your work.”



“This is not being very reassuring... are we really on the right side here?”



“Ah, to hell with it! We're obviously on the WINNING side.”




“Zealous fools. They cost me more than I was really willing to pay, but in the end, it was still a net positive for me.”

“Ahem.”

“What, haven't you noticed you're no longer my most valuable troops?”



“Hmm... water made living in these parts... but my magic reserves are low. Better return. But no harm in claiming whatever gifts the yellow coward left us, is that an Alchemist's Lab in the forest to the south?”



“It is unfortunate I actually had to resort to the riches I was saving... but with the mine Zam captured we'll be swimming in gold very shortly. So I guess I could spend a bit of it on more improvements. Quartermaster, what else you've got?”

“Oh, we could raise a nice obelisk in front of the Pyramid.”

“What is this? MORE decoration?”

“Obelisks are magical batteries, general. The embalmers will then channel its reserves into reanimating the most powerful and old of our dead!”

“Fine... it'd be nice to know how can a simple obelisk cost the same and need half the raw materials of the pyramid itself... but truthfully, that's actually more in line with what I believe this Obelisk should cost.”





The Royal Mummy is a very slight upgrade over the normal mummy, increasing only health and speed slightly, though it makes it tie with the Vampire Lords in speed they're still not that fast and the building upgrade is quite expensive, so it is not really worth it to rush it early in the game. The best improvement is that they increase the chance of cursing to 30%, making it so that nearly one in every three attacks is a cursing one, instead of every five. Their cost increases only by 50 gold to 300.



“Look smart... eh... men! I've detected enemy movement past the dwarves at the Gazebo in your part of the land!”

DAY 23





“If you wish, for a small investment we could make a draining system to dump all the toxic waste and other hazardous stuff into the graveyard where we dump the bodies we collect, instead of the nearby river”

“And why would I want to do that?”

“We're not exactly sure why, but the pestilent, mutant corpses reanimated after this treatment will actually shamble in a manner resembling running... and they're fairly sturdier as well.”



“You mean that's for the Zombies? Look, they're nice, obedient servants and all, but so far I've been unimpressed with their combat prowess. I'd rather see what your Necromancer friends will be willing to teach us after I improve their Spa.”

“You mean the Mage's Guild?”

“You've heard me.”



“The snack bar is finished, with the silk curtains floor.”

“... Terrific.”



Anti-magic is a great spell for Might heroes, as it allows them to protect prized stacks from spell shenanigans. For Magic heroes, however, it is much less useful, since it takes up a turn you could be using to fry half your opposition's forces.



Earthquake is... more useful for Magic heroes, but still a spell for Might ones. It causes a lot of damage to castle walls, easing siege, but the Necromancers already have good flying troops to fly over the walls so it is not that useful for us. It is a godsend to Knights and Barbarians, though, since they have a tough time getting past walls with no flying units. It might be useful to help our Skeletons get through, but a good spell power means there are probably better uses for our spell points.

“That's all you've got? You think you're what? Knights?”



:kamina: “Since your servants are untiring, you can make them carry some more stuff with you. Have some carts pulled by the zombies with the stuff you need, instead of tiring your horse.”

“But my horse is undead too, it doesn't get tired. We usually have to stop just so we can patch ourselves together after a long day walk.”

:kamina: “Then use these carts to carry better patching materials. Do I have to think everything for you?”



Strategically speaking... Logistics is probably the best skill in the game. It compensates for slow troops and makes heroes carrying fast troops even faster. It helps you chase running heroes better and allows that extra bit of movement to get where you need. All in all, the 30% movement bonus it provides at Expert will always be well worth it.



“Nice druids offer Rialdo new secrets AND a virgin sacrifice? BEST DAY EVER!”



“More elementals? Have they risen from the ocean just to stand in MY way? Very well, I'll back up a bit to bath in the waters from the magic well.”



“You, old man, I need more people exploring the surroundings of Night...shadow? Wait, are you sure this is a Knight's castle?”

“Yes. It was formerly a necromantic outpost. Cities change their history, but it is rare for them to change their names. There was a place I cursed all water to become wine, and they thought it was a blessing! And yet, they kept the name of Rivercity instead of renaming it to something more appropriate. Like Boozetown. The fools were still thanking me as they dehydrated themselves and died of thirst...”

“By the ancients, I did not ask for your life's story. Just take my gold and explore away.”

“Such a lack of respect for the one who was once the right hand of Alamar himself. Humph. If only that cursed Morglin had been contained before he became a threat, like I had advised Alamar, we wouldn't have been having this whole succession war problem. Alamar would still be ruling these lands and...”

“You're still here? And still talking? GO ALREADY!”



“I've found a mine of ores to the south of Nightshadow. It seems abandoned, but I'm camping by it to make sure there are no surprises.”

DAY 24





General Snob's Journal posted:

Today when I got some water from the well there was a green sludge in it. The Necromancers are really uncaring when it comes to hygiene, just because it won't kill them again, for most of them, anyway. I feel I'm being strong-armed into making those drainage systems into the graveyard by the quartermaster, but at this point it is starting to look like I don't have much of a choice.

I've taken a look into one of these “Mutant Zombies”. It is hard to believe, but they are ten times more stenchful than the vanilla variety. It is true! I've forbidden them from assigning any of these plague sacks into working anywhere near me. I've grown used to the usual rot of this outpost, but I will NOT submit myself to this new variety of uber-rot.





The upgrade from zombie to mutant is more important than the Mummy one, if only because the zombie is almost unusable before it and it becomes borderline viable after it. It is still slow, much weaker than the skeletons themselves, fragile despite their hit points, and their sole saving grace is that they come in moderate quantities, but nothing compared to the skeletons and still not enough to make them better than the mummies.



“Seems like my fears were unfounded. The mine was really empty and clear for us to take it. It is a shame to claim it for Archibald instead of Alamar but...”

“If you say Alamar one more time I'll unmake you!”



:kamina: “I see you like to mix troops from different backgrounds. But you need to keep them in check if you want to keep their morale up.”

“STOP trying to look under our skirts! Don't you see we've got pants underneath?”

“We are NOT trying to look under your drat skirts, giantesses! It is not our fault that your drat legs are taller than our heads!”

“This is definitely harder than it looks.”

DAY 25



“Zam needs more gold, and general Snubble needs more Crystals, so you better give us what we want or you're going to give ME what I want.”

:wotwot: “And what is that?”

“Dinner! :3:



“Boss! Good news! Ve seem to be ahead of our enemies in the matter of armies. The orange Lord's Heroine still only got Rocs and the Green Lady's one seem to have only Druids! They're no match for our Bone Dragons! Ve also appear to be ahead in several other areas, according to the blind seer. Including tax-income! Ve also have more castles! On the downside... she says their heroines are more powerful than any of us!”

“PREPOSTEROUS!”

“Oh, for the love of... will EVERYONE intrude into my scrying channels? Sandro, why don't you prove yourself? Take your artifacts, and explore north!”

“Nothing would give me more pleasure.”

DAY 26



“Huh... I see some really angry lady coming for the Dwarves.”



“Her troops aren't that powerful... but the chilling blizzard following her tell me she'd be able to freeze my dragons solid in the blink of an eye! I'm not supposed to be the main course!”

“Take the dwarves before she has the chance! With their reinforcements, go to the gazebo and wait further orders.”

“But this will keep me in her path! And dwarf don't taste too good, tough meat. Not fair...”



“Och! Where dese monstrosities come from! AIE!”



“Not much to reanimate... But maybe it might work after all!”



“Well, at least I'm prepared to run away.”



“I seem to have found the Orange lord's castle. It is well guarded. Wait, wait, wait... what is that? I can't believe it! Castle Alamar? Under these drat dirty mages? You maniacs! You whitened it up! drat YOU ALL TO HELL!”

“Sheesh, issues much? In any case, I was fearing that. I have no-one useful down there right now.”

“Ahem. And what am I? It is my duty to avenge my...”

“Like I said. No-one.”



“This is our turf! Pay the toll and we might consider... :supaburn:

“I will literally never tire of doing that, literally. Now, would you kindly keel over and die?”



“You're blocking my way. I can see the wizard woman from the Orange lord past you. If you could just get out of my way. My skeletons will even assist you.”





“In the end, they were nothing more than reinforcements. At least they had some schematics on a stronger catapult in their camp. I'll put that to a good use.”



“I might not have be able to reach that cousin of Halon's today, but I sure have the time to try and recruit your lazy corpses to my cause.”

:pray: “But we'd not make good soldiers! We are men of piety!”

“Who said anything about you? I'm talking to your bodies.”



Visions could be more useful, but it is just too expensive to really help. It might give you the information you need if, say, you're facing a stack of wandering monsters in those ranges of numbers that are the most vague. Namely, lots, mainly. 20 - 49 is a huge gap, and it can be useful to know if it is an easy encounter against twenty or a tough forty five one.



“DIE, creatures of bone and empty heart cavities!”

“Hey! That's racist! Just because I didn't resist the smell of elf?”

“We've heard what you did to our kin in the west! Back to the dust from whence you came, abominations!”



“TASTE THE LIGHTNING, THEN! Really, taste it. It is tasty!”



“It will be lightning against ice then! Hope your dragons can take the hit! :science:



“And I hope there's something left from your elves after they're ganged up by three dragons! No, really, I want dessert, otherwise this will be all for nothing!”



“Two dragons, you mean, surely!”

“Eh, lucky shot!”



“drat dwarves! Tough, stringy meat AND never die! I'm all out of magic and there are still over twenty of them to my handful of skeletons and single bone dragon! If only she stopped freezing my dragons!”

Tanky creatures are great for Magic heroes precisely because of this. A battle that seems already won can always turn the tables as long as they have the spell points to keep casting and destroying the opposition. Astra had 50 spell points and only now she's spent half of that amount...



“Rialdo! I told you to stay back!”

“Oh... but she... she had elves!”

“And?”

:(

“Well?”

:silent:

“I'm waiting for the part where you tell me how that is relevant in any way or form. Forget it. Miss Astra, Rialdo is an idiot. How much would you require to let him go?”

“The crimes of this monster are nothing compared to yours! You will NOT... what? How... Alright. The green Lady said I should let this monster go for the low price of 937 gold. Please, tell me you don't have that kind of currency.”

“Oh, but I do. I anticipated I'd have to bail someone today. Rialdo, come back.”

The worst thing in all this is that her morale was horrible because of this mixture of troops added to the Bone Dragon penalty and yet only once her troops froze in fear...



“Oh, for the love of... You got attacked too?”

“Yes, just as I planned. I sent the vampires ahead and fried the Halflings with a lightning bolt, but she ashed my vampires with two lightning bolts of her own. In hindsight... wasting my magic reserves on the nomads was a poor choice.”

“She's going to defeat you! I can't bail another one of you.”



“Oh, will you shut it? I have my skeletons, just need to make sure they're not attacked directly by those zombies. Where did she get so many zombies anyway? I thought it was another one of these wizard girls who had zombies falling in love with her. The kissing one.”



“DIE, BIRD! Victory will be ours!”



“Such violence! Rocs, destroy the golems this abomination stole!”



“Oh, your birds won't outrun my army of the dead! Skeletons, cut these turkeys in two!”

Looks like a neat effect, but this is just what happens when a game doesn't have vertical sync...



“You let your moderate company of zombies fall into my trap! Now they're surrounded!”

“How could you! That's dirty play! Dirty!”



“And now your zombies are no more. That's what happens when amateurs try to harness the dead!”





“She gave me more trouble than I thought, but I'm triumphant, of course!”





“So that's why her troops were mowing mine down so easily. She had found a four-leaf clover! It is not one of the artifacts I'm searching for, but I will not pass it up.”



“Oh, look, there was another four-leaf clover beside the one she left behind. I'm not superstitious... but it doesn't hurt to carry a few.”

“Guess you really are good at this whole 'let nothing stand in my way' thing you do.”

“When was there any doubt?”



“DIE, MIDGETS!”

“Oh, by Morglin's mummified balls... you too!?”

“General, I found one of these filthy, bleeding-heart wizards! I will defeat them all, for the glory of Alamar!”



“What? Defeat? Impossible! General, pay my surrender and...”

“To hell with you! They can put you in chains and leave you to rot for all I care. You're too stuck in the past to be of any use.”

DAY 27



“I've got reinforcements. I heard Rialdo had to surrender! Vhat a disgrace! Vith my forces, ve vill tip the scales!”



“Rialdo, you've failed me, but I'll give you another chance. Will you accept my gold?”

“Only because I'm still hungry. Hungry for revenge!”



“Well, let's see if the priests at the Nightshadow will have something worthwhile in their mage's guild.”



Paralyze is Blind's bigger brother. For all effects and purposes, it is the same as Blind, but will also prevent the retaliation when you break it with an attack. For 50% more spell points, this is not really worth it, but sometimes it is all you've got and it makes it possible to defeat much more powerful stacks of enemies... if you have the spare spell points.

Well, my plans of advancing east were curbed by enemy heroes popping up from all directions. But thanks to the damage Rialdo caused, even though he lost, and Sandro's victory, we are now open to attack both lords at once! No vote now. Next time: We are going to win this.

The_PC_Snob fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Sep 18, 2015

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013
I love shoutouts. :allears:


And don't worry Snobby, I too used cold ring wrong for longer than I'll ever admit openly.

grandalt
Feb 26, 2013

I didn't fight through two wars to rule
I fought for the future of the world

And the right to have hot tea whenever I wanted
Nice work. I like your call forward to Sando's plans, and it was impressive that you managed to defend the castle. Keep up the good work, please.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
It's actually nice to see some setbacks, rather than a total curbstomp.

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

Nah! A little chocolate will do




wouldn't it have been better to have your cursed hero retreat? By letting him get defeated he passed the Tax Lien onto that other hero you will HAVE to face and so you will just get it again, at least by having him retreat he is stuck in your tavern for a whole week.

Unless I missed something and the Warlock wasn't given the Tax Lien

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

Huh, I never knew that Lord Inspectron runs the trade market! :allears:

The_PC_Snob
Nov 22, 2012

Mario? Never
heard of him.

Aces High posted:

wouldn't it have been better to have your cursed hero retreat? By letting him get defeated he passed the Tax Lien onto that other hero you will HAVE to face and so you will just get it again, at least by having him retreat he is stuck in your tavern for a whole week.

Unless I missed something and the Warlock wasn't given the Tax Lien

The tax lien was on Darth's side. I was just poking the lion's den with Barok.

Darth TNT posted:

I love shoutouts. :allears:


And don't worry Snobby, I too used cold ring wrong for longer than I'll ever admit openly.

:ssh: you're getting ahead of yourself

The_PC_Snob fucked around with this message at 21:36 on May 23, 2015

Yapping Eevee
Nov 12, 2011

STAND TOGETHER.
FIGHT WITH HONOR.
RESTORE BALANCE.

Eevees play for free.
Good ol' Flench and Fubar. Undeniably a well-used shout-out.

Also, I don't know what I'll use HAHAHAHAHA.gif for, but I'm definitely saving it. :mmmhmm:

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

Nah! A little chocolate will do




I am very curious what the knights in the Gazebos will start saying when your heroes are high enough level that a measly 1000exp won't warrant a level up.

I imagine something like this :kamina: "well thanks for listening to an old man whinge for a bit, builds character"

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013
Update 4: The end of the first level
Last time we took two enemy castles leaving only one for the taking and with a clear road which I needed to take to get to that castle. So let’s finish this map.

Day 47

I saw an enemy hero running around here, I think he’s scared.


Ranloo is going to get a few extra units before he’s allowed to go out and play with the “big” boys.

Day 48

The enemy stays hidden and shows that the AI is currently set for stupid monkey difficulty. I'll take that gold instead and kill some skeletons for fun.


It’s something.


Wait, didn’t I already have this? The gold pile was a measly 500.


And away he goes! He’ll probably never see yellow, but who cares. The dead shall walk the world again!

Day 49

Hello again Zam.


I can’t reach Zam or kiss the statue so we’ll just park ourselves next to him…MENACINGLY.


This should be good exercise for him. A horde of battle dwarves.

Day 50

Go get them Ranloo. The plan is simple enough, we'll pelt them with chemicals.


Like this.


And like this. I fully expect them to end up next to eachother next turn, so that should be good. The AI will never try to spread out its units, which is one of the things that makes Power Liches as good as they are.


Yes, exactly as planned.


:drac: “Blah! Now to see vat’s really under zat helmet!”


The dwarfs are trying to divide and conquer.


The divide part went well at least.


And we have 5 new skeletons in our army. We just used the extra femurs to make them taller and more humanlike.


The book is useless to us, it doubles the effectiveness of summoning spells of which we have none.


What was I doing again?


Oh right, kissing stuff. :bigtran:


Well, that was easy. Heh, what a silly name for a warlock castle.

Day 51

He hasn’t visited the gazebo yet, so let’s talk up some old guy.


Helping us flag mines as usual is Flint.


There’s a xanadu next to their castle. I want it. PC Snob may be neither famous nor diplomatic enough, but I surely qualify. :smug:


Of course we’ll follow those elves, they’re hiding something!


Grand elves are actually too much of a pain to fight. They’re very fast meaning only the boars, titans and archmages tie them for speed. They’ll outspeed the vampires and rocs so we’re going to get hurt.


I don't want to get hurt, so let’s fix that with some mass haste.


Blazing is a hidden speed. It is one tier above ultra fast and no unit has this naturally. Now everyone is at least very fast. :getin:


And the boars are still short of reaching the other side thanks to some plants.


BLAH!


It was a tough battle where they managed to do two damage to my titans. Technically they did more, but the vampires healed themselves again.


It’s all mine!

Day 52

Oh right, Flint was there. The enemy also has another hero somewhere in the fog of war.


:wotwot: “Didn’t I tell you to get...”
:stare:
:wotwot: “Nevermind! Please come in.”

The Xanadu provides a nice +1 upgrade to all your skills, provided you can get in that is. :smug:


Look upon her and tremble, I guess we could go save Flint. But I don’t care about him, for reasons unknown I actually dislike Flint.


Also, this castle will be unguarded in a few minutes.


The titans throw their mighty lightning bolt and the vampires finish the job.


That was barely two minutes.


Welcome to Pigs eye! It's the Bee's knees, except with pigs and their eyes.


It spells doom for my enemies!
Let’s run through the new spells:
Animate dead: For 10 spell points you animate the dead, drawing them back from their second visit to the afterlife and drafting them permanently in your army. You restore 50 times your spell power in HP. This only works on the undead.

Resurrection: A waste of a spell if there ever was one and in my opinion exemplary of the patented Heroes of Might and Magic balance. This fourth level spell costs 12 spell points to temporarily bring back living units in your army. It heals for 50 time your spell power. Can you guess what’s so bad about this spell? Animate dead is a spell level below, costs less spell points and permanently raises the undead. There is a true resurrection spell available, but it’s a fifth level spell. :psyduck:

Mass shield: Well this is awkward, we haven’t seen the single target spell yet. So for 7 spell points you apply a shield that halves all missile damage to your units. It can be useful when you’re facing sorceress, wizard or are laying siege.


Flint should be happy, I have a plan to save him.
I wonder if the AI can resist retaking their castle now that it’s unguarded.


Now for part two. :smug: Run away Flint! :byodood:


Ranloo is getting there.

Day 53

:jeb: :derp:


I don’t think that that is going to save you.


Yes, undead, the Irish and three factions in a single army will do that to your morale.


The gargoyles were shot by the Archmages first and he blinded my rocs. Obviously they were the biggest threat on this map. This lucky hit did a whole 14 damage to my titans.


Time to pay them back in the back.


We haven’t talked about the griffins yet, but they have a very interesting special in that they have unlimited retaliations, meaning they can strike back as often as they are attacked making them annoying to fight. Fortunately, the vampires no retaliation specialty overcomes the griffins unlimited retaliations. One boar dies to the skeletons, I probably should care more but this map is over anyway and we need something to eat.
The sprites have a lucky shot on my titans who take 6 damage. :suspense:


I’d forgotten what holy word looked like. Pretty sweet blur. My vampires can recover from that damage by eating the griffins and even if they couldn’t I still would’ve cast this spell.

Holy Word: For 9 spell points you can cast the holy word. It’s the exact opposite of death ripple and thus deals 10 times your spell power in damage to all undead creatures on the battle field. I don’t like it very much. It’s very situational and the creatures you want to use this on the most can shrug it off unless you have 5 or more spell power. I wish turn undead from Heroes1 was still a thing. That spell outright killed a stack of undead.


Hey, that’s an attack spell. That usually means that they’re going to run, but he doesn’t have a castle. :psyduck:


Get back here you bastard! :argh:


And stop offering me eagle eye! :argh:


There’s no way that we’re going to survive this without damage, but I want to show PC Snob what happens when you oppose the forces of good.


I think I’ll cast haste on a stack of my vampires. This is where you notice how slow fast as a speed really is. These grand elves are all very fast, tying them with my power liches.


The liches weaken the top stack and take their first hit. The vampires can block two stacks at the same time.


And I lose a power lich.


Another lich dies due to the top grand elf going first this round, but he gets his revenge.


Cold ray to speed things up.


I hope you paid attention PC Snob, this is how we handle the undead. :shepface:


I also get 6 skeletons.


Never not pick logistics.

Day 54

And last but not least, Luna shows up.


This will not take long.


It'll be like lightning striking.


This isn’t what it looks like! :godwin: He’s just throwing a lightning bolt. :ohdear:


Hurrah, a victory.


And that settles that, this should teach those lords who their true benevolent lord is. :colbert:

Next time we see how grateful Roland is. I’ll bet I get even more gold, maybe some lands and dare I say it maybe even a miller as well. :allears:

Darth TNT fucked around with this message at 20:39 on May 27, 2015

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THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

The icon for logistics has always been the most comfortable pillow transport I've ever seen.

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