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Private Eye posted:So it recently came out that an ultra-orthodox sect in north london is discouraging women from driving: Ultra-orthodox and orthodox are not at all the same thing.
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May 30, 2015 11:28
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Jeek posted:It seems that the mainstream Jew culture comes from the European ones. What are your opinions on those who migrated to somewhere else, like that group of Jew who somehow managed to move to the middle of China of all places? The destruction of the Temple and later expulsion of the Jews by the Romans led to migrations throughout Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and Asia. Jews had already spread in these areas along trade routes, but without the Temple to serve as a center point for Jewish culture and religion, Jews continued to spread an integrate into many nations. I think it is fascinating that Jews were and are able to live in so many societies around the world while retaining many cultural and religious beliefs. No group of Jews today maintains the exact beliefs and practices of 2000 years ago, so I think that all of these migrant communities are important to Jewish history and culture.
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May 31, 2015 01:28
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du -hast posted:What is the deal with stomping on a glass a Jewish weddings? It seems pretty un-Jewish to break perfectly usable silverware. Like many Jewish Traditions, no one really knows. As Viola the Mad said many ascribe stomping on a glass to commemorate the destruction of the Temple, but there is no strong evidence or consensus of what it means. Modern Israel is a difficult subject. It was founded by refugees of WWII and has become a nation shaped by people who were desperate to survive. Its its politics, relation to Palestine, and the religious decrees of its chief Rabbinate should be understood in those terms. I do not think that it speaks for all Jews any more than Saudi Arabia speaks for all Muslims or the Vatican speaks for all Christians.
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May 31, 2015 01:40
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Y-Hat posted:Fellow Reform Jew (if you can even call me that) checking in. What makes the Satmar Ultra-Orthodox sect unique? If you go south of Broadway in Williamsburg, you end up in a big Satmar neighborhood. It's like walking into Bizarro Williamsburg- there's nothing to do, the people are dressed the same, and everything is so dead. At least the Lubavitcher section of Crown Heights is lively, even though it's also creepy in its own way. Orthodox Judaism is a modern understanding of the religion and culture shaped but its differences with other communities that either hold "additional" views or interpret Torah differently. I am not familiar with the Satmar sect, but it appears to be Hasidic which means it was strongly influenced by Eastern European Jewish culture and the the development of theology along Kabbalistic or "mystical" lines.
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May 31, 2015 01:50
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Basebf555 posted:Agreed that America is the best place for Jews right now, but yea that 70% approval stat is definitely deceptive. As a Jew I get a lot of the more subtle, friendlier, more insidious kind of racism. I've never been openly called a dirty Jew or a kike or anything like that, but you get a lot of people who will have that "I like Jews, so it doesn't matter that I make broad sweeping generalizations about them" attitude. Like you'll hear people say that they are looking for a lawyer, but its gotta be a "Jew lawyer" because Jews are the best lawyers. Or they may say that they really respect Jews because they are so good with money. These are backhanded compliments at best, but most people that say stuff like that aren't self-aware enough to realize the racist ideas that are at the root of them. I don't look stereotypical Jewish so I have seen some bigotry in America from people who didn't know they were talking to a Jew. It has mostly been things like people saying they were "Jewed" out of money - that greedy Jewish bankers are somehow robbing them, or that Jews control the U.S. media and government for our own benefit. I think this is less malice directly towards Jews and more that people can blame their own problems on a convenient "other" group. The only outright hatred I have experienced was not by an American but by a Jordanian visitor who wanted to warn me as a "Christian" that Jews were destroying the world. Jordan has had a difficult relationship with Israel with several wars, so I can understand why someone from there would have a negative view of Jews as a whole. Enophos fucked around with this message at 03:03 on May 31, 2015 |
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May 31, 2015 01:58
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MJP posted:Do you believe Israel has a right to exist based upon the Jewish-centric belief that it belongs to the Jewish people? I believe that Israel is a home of the Jewish people as told to Abraham by G-D 3000+ years ago. However, its settlement by other groups in the centuries after the Roman expulsion of the Jews greatly muddies the issue. I think that it has a right to exist as a nation - but all those who see it as a homeland, Palestinian or otherwise, should have a right to live there. Enophos fucked around with this message at 03:11 on May 31, 2015 |
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May 31, 2015 02:13
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Noctis Horrendae posted:Do you think there's such a thing as a Jewish race? I know this is a controversial topic. Judaism is interesting, because it can be defined along religious, cultural, or genetic lines. It starts with the family of Abraham and Sarah - but anyone can join the religion, and being Jewish has traditionally been determined only by the Jewish religious or cultural affiliation of a child's mother. This means that people from many backgrounds can be Jewish based on their father or family prior to conversion. I don't think a "Jewish race" has ever existed. Enophos fucked around with this message at 03:17 on May 31, 2015 |
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May 31, 2015 02:23
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ZeusJupitar posted:Historical discussions and depictions of medieval and early modern Jewish people seem to focus on the educated urban middle class. Where there many/any Jewish peasant communities outside of the Levant after the diaspora? The depictions of Jewish people as an educated urban middle class come from the fact that many European nations did not allow Jews to own land. Without being able to grow crops themselves, Jews in these areas had to become craftsmen to survive. In those areas where Jews were allowed to work the land, Poland and Russia for example, Jewish "peasant" or agricultural communities existed until their destruction in WWII.
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May 31, 2015 02:29
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khwarezm posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CwHISOKIrY This is over the top, but Kosher rules can be very strict. The dietary laws in the Torah such as to not cook a calf in its mother's milk, not eat an animal with blood still in it, and the prohibitions against eating specific and general groups of animals were expounded upon in the Talmud (the commentaries on the Torah compiled in 100-500 CE) to create many strict rules. A principle to "fence the Torah" arose to make sure Jews didn't break these rules. A classic example is that you can't eat chicken and milk together - this doesn't break the rule against "cooking a calf in its mother milk," but a Jew might not know what meat they were eating an unintentionally break the law or see someone eating them together and think beef and cow's milk were OK to eat together. This principle has also led to the need for two sets of cookware for meat and milk to avoid ever breaking this one specific rule. This skit shows how convoluted Kosher rules can be. Enophos fucked around with this message at 06:43 on May 31, 2015 |
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May 31, 2015 02:40
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Private Eye posted:So it recently came out that an ultra-orthodox sect in north london is discouraging women from driving: As Obdicut said - ultra-orthodox and orthodox are not at all the same thing. I am not aware on any rules prohibiting women from driving in Judaism and I have not seen orthodox Jews impose any such rules, but this group has created one. Many people (Jews included) see Judaism as a monolithic entity, but - just like within all cultures, religions, philosophical schools, etc - the specific cultural and theological backgrounds of different groups have led to many different traditions. Enophos fucked around with this message at 02:53 on May 31, 2015 |
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May 31, 2015 02:47
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Last Buffalo posted:The more religious you get, the more divisive things get about which traditions should be followed which way. Some things, like eating pork or when the sabbath starts are universal. Others, like etiquette for a get or whether a married man should listen to another female sing are more divided. As someone who lives the Satmar lifestyle, which arguably is the most pious Jewish sect, I totally agree. The more religious you get, the more divisive things get. I must however take issue with your observation that everyone agrees to when the Sabbath starts. While everyone agrees that the Sabbath starts at sunset on Friday, there’s an ancient dispute to when “sunset” is. There are many opinions on the issue - as well as to when the Sabbath ends. In Satmar and in other Hasidic communities, we observe Sabbath for 25 ½ hours to satisfy most opinions.
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Jun 1, 2015 18:56
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Heimish Yid posted:As someone who lives the Satmar lifestyle, which arguably is the most pious Jewish sect, I totally agree. The more religious you get, the more divisive things get. I must however take issue with your observation that everyone agrees to when the Sabbath starts. While everyone agrees that the Sabbath starts at sunset on Friday, there’s an ancient dispute to when “sunset” is. There are many opinions on the issue - as well as to when the Sabbath ends. In Satmar and in other Hasidic communities, we observe Sabbath for 25 ½ hours to satisfy most opinions. ...are you SatmarGuy from the old thread? Is there now a club of Satmar goons inspired by the old thread? I don't really have good questions for you but I bet others will.
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Jun 1, 2015 19:39
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:...are you SatmarGuy from the old thread? Is there now a club of Satmar goons inspired by the old thread? I don't really have good questions for you but I bet others will. No. I’m new here. I don’t think you’ll come across many Satmars on this forum, if at all. I came across this forum by Googling something else, and I saw a thread about Judaism. Of course, I started reading and found an incorrect detail. As a good Jew, I couldn’t hold back but voice my opinion. I’m still debating if I should stay and answer questions about Satmar or even open an Ask Me About Satmar thread. I understand that people will find information about a closed community as Satmar interesting, but being on a forum like this one isn’t something that’s viewed favorably in the community – to say the least. It’s kinda risky business for me.
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Jun 1, 2015 20:40
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Heimish Yid posted:No. I’m new here. I don’t think you’ll come across many Satmars on this forum, if at all. Why would your community have problems with you posting here?
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Jun 1, 2015 20:46
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Heimish Yid posted:As a good Jew, I couldn’t hold back but voice my opinion. Good luck, and whatever you want to talk to us about will be fine! Noctis Horrendae posted:Why would your community have problems with you posting here?
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Jun 1, 2015 20:49
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Heimish Yid posted:No. I’m new here. I don’t think you’ll come across many Satmars on this forum, if at all. Not to discourage you, but the last time it happened, the thread became one of the top google results for "satmar", and made the rounds in the community. I know you can't read this without archives but the thread is here, it was started by an ex-member and eventually a (then) member joined. Thank you for anything you do answer, and it'd be awesome to hear your answers to things. Old thread, probably can't read: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3391326&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1
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Jun 1, 2015 21:03
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Noctis Horrendae posted:Why would your community have problems with you posting here? For starters, we’re not allowed to use the Internet for anything other than business. Not everyone obeys that rule, but a forum with adult language is a big no-no. Moreover, an insular community doesn’t like when their members comingle with outsiders or read too much “outside” information, lest they get some “other” ideas. Talking to gentiles is another problem. And above all, divulging information to outsiders might be considered Mesirah – a huge sin!
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Jun 1, 2015 21:10
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Have there been any notable Jewish terrorist organizations besides the Israeli state throughout history?Heimish Yid posted:For starters, we’re not allowed to use the Internet for anything other than business. Not everyone obeys that rule, but a forum with adult language is a big no-no. Moreover, an insular community doesn’t like when their members comingle with outsiders or read too much “outside” information, lest they get some “other” ideas. Talking to gentiles is another problem. And above all, divulging information to outsiders might be considered Mesirah – a huge sin! Wow. I appreciate you risking your hide just to share with us information about your community and Judaism on the whole!
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Jun 1, 2015 21:11
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HEY GAL posted:Heh. Um, no. “Heimish” means homey (lit.). “Yid” is Yiddish for Jew. It’s a way of saying this Jew is one of ours. The OP isn’t a Heimish Yid; he’s reform…
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Jun 1, 2015 21:11
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Heimish Yid posted:Um, no. “Heimish” means homey (lit.). “Yid” is Yiddish for Jew. It’s a way of saying this Jew is one of ours. The OP isn’t a Heimish Yid; he’s reform…
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Jun 1, 2015 21:12
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Not to discourage you, but the last time it happened, the thread became one of the top google results for "satmar", and made the rounds in the community. I know you can't read this without archives but the thread is here, it was started by an ex-member and eventually a (then) member joined. Thank you for anything you do answer, and it'd be awesome to hear your answers to things. I'll think about it. I'll have to find a way to talk about Satmar and protect my identity. As much as I don't believe in the teachings of Satmar, I don't want to be excommunicated. I dont want to lose my family.
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Jun 1, 2015 21:16
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How does one become a jew? Is there a book or ehow article I can read?
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Jun 2, 2015 00:28
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Noctis Horrendae posted:Have there been any notable Jewish terrorist organizations besides the Israeli state throughout history? Yes, during the British occupation of Israel from 1919 through 1947, there were many terrorist organizations who fought against the European domination of the middle east. This movement ultimately lead to the modern state of Israel. 
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Jun 2, 2015 02:12
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Mad Wack posted:How does one become a jew? Is there a book or ehow article I can read? The Book of Ruth is the most authoritative source. When Ruth says "thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God." she becomes fully Jewish. Most modern sects require you to live a Jewish life and accept certain prohibitions over time, but ultimately, the Book of Ruth is the only source in the Tanakh that records a conversion. Enophos fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jun 2, 2015 |
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Jun 2, 2015 02:18
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What is the opinion of most Jews on Israel? In my experience - at least stateside - most Christians will defend Israel, no matter what they do.
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Jun 2, 2015 02:38
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Noctis Horrendae posted:What is the opinion of most Jews on Israel? Hold on, let me ask most Jews.
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Jun 2, 2015 03:57
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American Jews, when polled, very strongly support Israel's existence, but they fracture when it comes to the current government. The more religious communities (that believe in Israel, a lot of sects reject Zionism) have become very republican in recent years because they often see Islam as the enemy and the war on terror as a good thing. Less religious American Jews skew very liberal and really don't like or support oppressive nature of modern Israel. There's of course a lot to the conversation, but those are some of the major factions of opinion.
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Jun 2, 2015 05:49
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I'd be interested to hear more about the origins of Reform Judaism, or any of the other branches. What does converting to Judaism entail? Is there a ceremony? Do men who convert get circumcised?
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Jun 2, 2015 08:43
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MrWilderheap posted:I'd be interested to hear more about the origins of Reform Judaism, or any of the other branches. Reform Judaism split sometime in the 1800s I believe (could be wrong), and conservative Judaism split from reform some time after that. Each branch generally considers the people in the other branches legitimate, although they might not agree with all the practices. In conservative and orthodox, conversion requires several years of study, following the rules very strictly, and then an examination by a beit din (kind of like a thesis defense). Men get circumscribed, if they already are they get a ceremonial nick, and they go through a ritual bath in a mikveh.
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Jun 2, 2015 17:39
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Obdicut posted:Hold on, let me ask most Jews. There must be polls on the topic.
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Jun 2, 2015 20:35
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quote:circumscribed
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Jun 2, 2015 20:38
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Noctis Horrendae posted:There must be polls on the topic. Then go find them. There's no reason any random Jew would know the results of those polls.
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Jun 2, 2015 21:26
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Obdicut posted:Then go find them. There's no reason any random Jew would know the results of those polls. I am also perfectly comfortable with anecdotes and personal opinions. The question was poorly phrased, but it didn't hinder your understanding or make the question unanswerable. Relax, guy.
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Jun 2, 2015 22:56
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Noctis Horrendae posted:I am also perfectly comfortable with anecdotes and personal opinions. The question was dumb, not poorly phrased. The main reason it's dumb is as has been said, do you mean Israel's existence at all? Israel's treatment of Palestinians? Israel's existence as a specifically "Jewish" state? Israel's current government? Israel's actions? Furthermore, the thread is about Judaism. Judaism is not synonymous with Jews. Tons of Jews are non-practicing, as has already been covered. This is probably a much more valuable thread if it's about Judaism in its various forms and not just Jews in general. The OP asked to avoid Israel chat in the OP.
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Jun 2, 2015 23:14
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Obdicut posted:The question was dumb, not poorly phrased. The main reason it's dumb is as has been said, do you mean Israel's existence at all? Israel's treatment of Palestinians? Israel's existence as a specifically "Jewish" state? Israel's current government? Israel's actions? Hmm but is Judaism the religious practice or the cultural traditions and experiences that include the religious practice? I'm willing to leave the answer with regard to this thread up to the OP, but both are interesting enough to me. The sociology of how the religious/cultural practice has evolved differently among different groups is a personal interest of mine. I certainly don't believe any religious stuff or seek to obey any religious laws but I'm still Jewish and still engage with Jewish cultural traditions in a secular way. (I agree completely that there should be no Israel stuff in here regardless, that is the most important point in your post I think.)
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Jun 2, 2015 23:31
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Hmm but is Judaism the religious practice or the cultural traditions and experiences that include the religious practice? The religious practice. You don't say you practice Judaism. You're just culturally Jewish. Likewise, I don't know any atheists who came from a Christian background who don't celebrate Christmas. But in no way do they call themselves Christian or would it be at all reasonable to call them Christian.
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Jun 2, 2015 23:44
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Sorry guys, didn't know Israel was off limits.
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Jun 3, 2015 00:36
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Noctis Horrendae posted:Sorry guys, didn't know Israel was off limits. Its embarrassingly obvious you were fishing for a reaction, the post before the one he ended up quoting was a sarcastic remark about Israel being a terrorist organization. You came into the thread looking for a debate about Israel but this isn't the place for it.
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Jun 3, 2015 01:58
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Obdicut posted:The religious practice. You don't say you practice Judaism. You're just culturally Jewish. Likewise, I don't know any atheists who came from a Christian background who don't celebrate Christmas. But in no way do they call themselves Christian or would it be at all reasonable to call them Christian. All sorts of people do actually, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. It's also really weird to get worked up about a question on Israel in a thread entitled: 'ask about Judaism'.
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Jun 3, 2015 04:02
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tsa posted:All sorts of people do actually, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. It's also really weird to get worked up about a question on Israel in a thread entitled: 'ask about Judaism'. I'm sorry, who are the atheists who call themselves Christian? The reason to get worked up about it is because any thread about anything related to Jews descends into the black hole of I/P debate and it would suck if this thread followed that path. Also, you're becoming creepy.
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Jun 3, 2015 04:59
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