Ask me about Judaism

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Ask me about Judaism

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

Noctis Horrendae posted:

Do you think there's such a thing as a Jewish race? I know this is a controversial topic.

All races are fictitious constructs, it has no actual definable meaning.

Now let's watch as the thread inevitable descends into an I/P shitshow.

# ¿ May 22, 2015 18:57

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 11:08

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

ZeusJupitar posted:

Historical discussions and depictions of medieval and early modern Jewish people seem to focus on the educated urban middle class. Where there many/any Jewish peasant communities outside of the Levant after the diaspora?

Yes. Why wouldn't there be?

# ¿ May 26, 2015 13:48

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

Private Eye posted:

So it recently came out that an ultra-orthodox sect in north london is discouraging women from driving:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32935767

Is this a common thing in orthodox circles? I confess I've never paid much attention to this kind of stuff.

And the original article from the Jewish Chronicle:

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/136878/stamford-hill-sect-bans-women-drivers

Edit: In the balance of fairness, a lot of prominent Jews have come out and said it's ridiculous.

Ultra-orthodox and orthodox are not at all the same thing.

# ¿ May 30, 2015 11:28

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

Noctis Horrendae posted:

What is the opinion of most Jews on Israel?

In my experience - at least stateside - most Christians will defend Israel, no matter what they do.

Hold on, let me ask most Jews.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2015 03:57

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

Noctis Horrendae posted:

There must be polls on the topic.

Then go find them. There's no reason any random Jew would know the results of those polls.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2015 21:26

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

Noctis Horrendae posted:

I am also perfectly comfortable with anecdotes and personal opinions.

The question was poorly phrased, but it didn't hinder your understanding or make the question unanswerable. Relax, guy.

The question was dumb, not poorly phrased. The main reason it's dumb is as has been said, do you mean Israel's existence at all? Israel's treatment of Palestinians? Israel's existence as a specifically "Jewish" state? Israel's current government? Israel's actions?

Furthermore, the thread is about Judaism. Judaism is not synonymous with Jews. Tons of Jews are non-practicing, as has already been covered. This is probably a much more valuable thread if it's about Judaism in its various forms and not just Jews in general. The OP asked to avoid Israel chat in the OP.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2015 23:14

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Hmm but is Judaism the religious practice or the cultural traditions and experiences that include the religious practice?

The religious practice. You don't say you practice Judaism. You're just culturally Jewish. Likewise, I don't know any atheists who came from a Christian background who don't celebrate Christmas. But in no way do they call themselves Christian or would it be at all reasonable to call them Christian.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2015 23:44

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

tsa posted:

All sorts of people do actually, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. It's also really weird to get worked up about a question on Israel in a thread entitled: 'ask about Judaism'.

I'm sorry, who are the atheists who call themselves Christian?

The reason to get worked up about it is because any thread about anything related to Jews descends into the black hole of I/P debate and it would suck if this thread followed that path.

Also, you're becoming creepy.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2015 04:59

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

Enophos posted:

Following this topic, this is why I believe and follow Judaism. The prophet Isaiah said that the Jews or Jewish Kingdom was to serve as a light unto the nations, otherwise known as Goy or Gentiles - non Jews. Many people believe in G-D, even thought they may have a understanding of G-D I do not agree with. I believe this is a necessary consequence of free will and that the continued existence of Jews and the belief in G-D means that there must be something to it.

As a follower of Reform Judaism, this is good enough for me and I would never try to force someone to follow my beliefs.

That's a very modern re-interpretation of the passage, and the context generally is other nations being super-impressed by the kingdom of Zion, not that it'll be a moral or spiritual guiding light, viz. 4:23:

And kings shall be thy foster-fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers; they shall bow down to thee with their face to the earth, and lick the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD, for they shall not be ashamed that wait for Me.

And 4:26

And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine; and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour, and thy Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.

Pretty much all of Isaiah 4 is martial, it's not really being presented as a spiritual thing.

I think it's totally cool to reinterpret that, but it's important to note its a reinterpretation. The above bit is also kind of interesting with the eventual Christian belief in body & blood as sacrament, too.

Have you read any of Robert Alter's re-translations of the tanakh?

His version of Job is incredible.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Wisdom-Books-Ecclesiastes-Translation/dp/0393340538/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_y

# ¿ Jun 27, 2015 14:04

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

Sobieski posted:

Would you agree that, due to this fact, jews harbor an inherited hatred for the European civilisation and its peoples? If so, couple that with the vast sway you hold over America through your economic power then to me a true Jewish conspiracy would seem entirely plausible

Poor troll attempt. Also, tons of European civilization comes from Jews. As has been said.

But really, with the rich veins of anti-semitism out there you could have trolled much better. Be ashamed.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2015 12:14

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

Enophos posted:

I have read this re-translation. At the risk of observing a meaning simply for traditions sake - As a Reform Jew, I believe that it is important for the individual to decide the meaning of a passage in the Bible. I believe the meaning this had for Jews 2000+ years ago can change. I see the Torah and Tanakh as "living" documents - providing meaning in the modern day as they did 2500+ years ago. I think that religions must "evolve" just as everything in nature does - since G-D has allowed this constant change and evolution of species and human understanding, it must be an intrinsic part of the world. I admit this might seem to be a cop-out, but this is how I understand theology.

Do reform Jews at all believe there may be portions of the Tanakh that are interpolations? If you read Alter's notes, he points out some bits in Job that are clearly by a different (and much less talented) author that do not fit with the main story, and that the whole thing is encased in a much older 'wrapper' story. Do you have to figure out a way so that the 'kings and queens will lick the dust from your feet' becomes something remotely reasonable or can you dismiss it as either unfit for the modern time or probably a political interpolation?

# ¿ Jul 9, 2015 20:04

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

Red Ryder posted:

I get the impression that most Jews in America are quite tolerant of other cultures and lifestyles but it seems a bit like an acceptance that there are "others" who can do whatever they like as long as they remain separate from Jews. What is your feeling, OP--and your impression of the attitude of other Jews--when somebody wishes to reconcile being Jewish with being homosexual, or even with being atheist?

You've really got to clarify what form of "Jew" you're talking about. OP is Reform. Reform Judaism has actively campaigned for gay rights, mostly. Orthodox are just flat against it. Conservatives are divided. For atheism, it's much the same. Orthodox are also not tolerant of homosexuality in 'others', either, really. I think what you might be getting at is that even among orthodox Jews, there's a pretty strong level of support for separation of church and state, but that's pragmatic--that Orthodox Jews are not, nor will be, in the majority in the US.

Basically, all questions like this have the same answer: There are more and less liberal forms of Judaism.

For atheism, there is one little wrinkle, which is that Chabad and a few other orthodox sects target atheist or 'lapsed' Jews for reconversion. I get approached by them every once in awhile, and they are loving annoying.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2015 01:23

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

Mousepractice posted:

A while back some Lubavitchers came to where I work and asked "any Jews here" and one of my colleagues pointed me out, so for the next year or so they would come back every Friday and ask for a mitzvah and some davening and we'd say the Sh'ma. They were all socially stunted dorks so they never got round to asking me about re-upping on the faith, but I figured there was no harm in it and played along for a while, plus my Libyan boss got a laugh out of the whole situation. Eventually they gave up.

NB There was one cool one who could smell that I had been smoking weed in my office, seemed like he was on the verge of asking for a spliff but he got sent back to the USA. I got the feeling if they did really well in London they got bumped to other territories, with the dream destination being their native Brooklyn or something. The cool one was Canadian.

They hang around outside the 92nd street Y sometimes, especially around the High Holidays. I've never done more than say, "Yeah, I'm a Jew, no, I'm not going to come to shul with you, why not, because I don't want to, don't be rude, take no for an answer, don't have a shanda fur die goy." That usually confuses them enough to get them off my back.

It's semi-ironic because my heritage is Sephardic and I picked up most of my yiddish from a non-Jewish Italian dude whose business partner was Ashkenazi.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2015 20:37

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 11:08

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

theshim posted:

Hey guys. Raised Orthodox, currently still nominally Orthodox in practice but very distant personally. I'd like to toss my hat in on a few things.

Even among supposedly monolithic sects like Orthodoxy there's a great deal of variance. I actually am friends with a number of Orthodox gay Jews, and it's a struggle for them, but the overwhelming majority of my Orthodox friends support gay rights and equality. My group is fairly liberal, I guess, and there absolutely are more hardline factions that decry it, but there's a whole ton of different people out there.

Well, as I said, there's still very strong support for separation of church and state, which equates out to gay rights and equality. However, I don't know any Orthodox who believe that homosexual behavior is fine, any more than I know any orthodox who believe adultery is fine. I'm not saying that they want the state to repress it, but I do not think there is any sort of common idea in Orthodox Judaism that gay behavior is sanctioned. For some wonderful rabbinical-style hair splitting, here's the The Gay and Lesbian Yeshiva Day School Alumni Association's take on it, which basically says that the prohibition against gay sex amounts to a prohibition against anal.

http://www.orthogays.org/faq.html#q_torah

# ¿ Jul 21, 2015 15:30

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Ask me about Judaism