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projecthalaxy posted:It'll be interesting to see when and where mod monetization spreads after Skyrim. Lots of other games on the workshop, will other companies jump in? After the huge amount of backlash, I doubt any other companies will get in on this, if they do it certainly won't be on this insane 75% cut. edit: Oh, hello new page. To shine a bit of light on more of the stupidity involved here, mods have a 24 hour period where you can get a refund. Now as well as this being woefully too short to find mod conflicts, it's also hilariously illegal in some countries due to the fact that you can only get the refund in Steam FunBux™ 
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Apr 25, 2015 03:31
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I think what Bethesda is doing is essentially co-opting the best features of the Skyrim modding scene (SkyUI, W&C, etc.) and preparing to rip the code off for use in the next Fallout or TES game.
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Apr 25, 2015 03:31
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splifyphus posted:Yeah, I'm sure it was that monolithic entity 'modders' that came up with giving a 75% cut to Valve and developers. Bingo. I really don't see how this has any sort of benefit to anyone except Steam, the game makers, and modders. Steam hosts poo poo and gets paid massively for it, the game makers get to release buggy poo poo that modders are practically forced to fix, and the modders will lap it all up for that nice shiny quarter for every dollar that the gamers have to give after the initial cost of purchasing said buggy piece of poo poo. I really hope this means that the cost of games will go down now that modders will essentially be finishing the last 25% of games released under this scheme. Haha, who am I kidding, I had to stop typing that sentence for a few minutes so I could finish laughing, and now my cheeks hurt. But for real, lemme buy that $60 triple A title that's 45% done, then go ahead and spend an additional $50 on DLC to get it to 75% done, and then a further $30 or whatever on that nice readable UI, quality of life mods, OP armor and weapons, single player campaign because every loving game is loving multiplayer now and sometimes I just want to have fun by myself, and that shiny horse penis mod because MY IMMERSION.
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Apr 25, 2015 03:31
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http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2795509-quick-updates-to-the-site-money-money-money-edition/ "The modding community, especially with Bethesda games, is built on mods that use assets from other mods. Many mods are stand-alone and use completely unique or vanilla assets, but many also use assets from other mods. On top of that, many modders release their mods as "modders resources", essentially saying to people "take whatever you want from my mod and use it in yours". The introduction of paid for mods changes that. Some mod authors have already taken their mods down because they're afraid their assets or even their entire mods will be stolen and added to the new Steam Workshop without their permission. Many more have said they are now unsure if they'll ever release another modder's resource again. We obviously do not want that to happen, and the fact it has happened already leaves a sour taste in my mouth. The taste of one side of what money is bringing to modding. We've even had our first mod taken down from the paywall section of Skyrim Workshop related to this issue, less than 24 hours in. And these were the mods vetted by Valve and Bethesda themselves! Gooooood start. Big sarcastic thumbs up. While I'm talking about this fear of mods or assets being stolen, I feel I need to point out a massive, glaring issue with this new Workshop implementation, because right now people are focusing on "Oh my god, you mean I might need to pay for some mods?" while I think an even more horrific thing is "Oh my god, you mean I will have to pay to check and make sure if someone has stolen my work!?". Let me explain. The new implementation is set up so that there's a 7-day grace period after an author uploads a file with a pricetag. During these 7 days users can view the file page, look at the pictures and read the description, but they cannot download the file. The idea of this grace period is to get the community to police new uploads before they're added to make sure that nothing bad is added to the paid section of the site. Seems like a good idea. Except if a mod author is using stolen assets from other people's mods. Unless the thief is pants on head stupid they're not going to talk about stealing assets from other mods or put up pictures that would suggest assets have been stolen. The only way the authors of the assets that have been stolen will know it's happened is if someone buys the mod and then tells the author. At which point the author is either going to have to engage in the new world of mod piracy (which began yesterday in earnest) or they're going to have to buy the mod for themselves. So you want to say, "But Dark0ne, the author can buy the mod, investigate, then ask for a refund, as there's a refund system!". Yes, there's a refund system. A refund system that refunds you in Steam Wallet money that you can never take out of Steam. So once you've bought that mod, that money will always be Valve's from that point on. Refund or not. That, I'm sorry to say, is batshit. Freaking. Crazy. Add to that the fact that the mod may have made substantial sums of money before it's spotted, some of which may have already been paid to the thief, or alternatively has been removed from the thief's account before they could get the payout and, guess where the money goes then? That's right. Valve's coffers. So if you're wondering why some mod authors have pulled their mods already, if you think it's silly or a daft knee-jerk reaction, you might want to rethink your position."
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Apr 25, 2015 03:32
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Scyantific posted:I think what Bethesda is doing is essentially co-opting the best features of the Skyrim modding scene (SkyUI, W&C, etc.) and preparing to rip the code off for use in the next Fallout or TES game. Nah Bethsoft would probably just outright steal them and the modders would be like, "This is such an honor" rather than a convoluted PR disaster like this, but then again I personally think that Bethsoft doesn't give a poo poo about mods and would keep the same garbage tier UI for the next game rather than steal better functioning UI.
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Apr 25, 2015 03:35
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I know I posted a lot in the Skyrim thread, but it is the most lovely deal imaginable for all parties involved except for Valve and Bethesda. Lets look at this: For a generous 25%, modders now get to: do customer service, make sure their mod doesn't do anything unintended or have people screaming at you, fix a broken game that the developers themselves didn't at slave wages, no longer get to compile their mod with other popular mods to get recognition because that would cost the popular mod money (or pay for the privilege to use a necessary mod to make their own. See SkyUI for this happening right now), earn $400 dollars before they see a dime (remember, it is a $100 in 'earned income', which means the 25% after Valve/Bethesda take their pound of flesh) and then have a majority of profit get taken away from them if they manage to hit it, if they make a large mod still earn less than they would if they relied on donations because their 25% is being split multiple ways, enjoy a perception that your mod is on par with the cheat mods that have already began to flood the market for $0.50 or lovely DotA imports that are a dollar, endure countless attempts at shady modders changing their work in the workshop and charging for it for and relying on a company whose customer service is possibly the worst in the industry. For consumers: get to deal with the worst quality control and customer service in gaming by relying on other gamers whom they pay, endure buggy and broken games that modders will now be relied upon to fix for a slave's wage, enjoy having no recourse when a mod inevitably breaks other mods or their saves which takes too long to figure out because modding a game takes time, be subject to the whims of the mod maker if an update breaks the game after a new patch comes out (and if the modmaker decides to do nothing about it, they are hosed), have no sense of any sort of quality of a mod except buying it and installing it which might break their save irreparably (a privilege you now pay for), if you get a refund it is in corporate money which is worthless except to spend on another game after the corporation has taken your money which costs them next to nothing, forced to use one of the worst interfaces for modding games currently in existence which may in and of itself break your mods or render some of them useless, you still have to mod the game yourself which can sometimes take hours and days to get it running at some sort of stable configuration (depending on your free time and if the mod actually works. Oh yeah, still no refund after a day. So good luck if you wait or it runs stable for a few days and then breaks your game) which is now a privilege you pay for, For Bethesda and Valve: Pocket the money and deal with none of the headaches. Hrmm, why yes, I can see how this policy is beneficial for everyone involved.
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Apr 25, 2015 03:37
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So, other than what I'm absolutely sure are the insanely money hungry *~Modding Superstars~* that only have dollar signs in their eyes, Valve, and Bethesda, has anyone actually seen anyone who's happy at this thing and the specter it brings looming in over our heads?
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Apr 25, 2015 03:42
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Dapper Dan posted:I know I posted a lot in the Skyrim thread, but it is the most lovely deal imaginable for all parties involved except for Valve and Bethesda. Lets look at this: Let's put it this way: Making a mod is a 4-step process: -Content Creation -Quality Control/Testing -Release and Hosting -Technical Support After Release Now let's look at how the workload is split: -SkyUI team is responsible for Content Creation, Quality Control/Testing, and Technical Support After Release. They are doing 75% of the work -Valve and Bethesda are responsible for Release and Hosting. They are doing 25% of the work. Looking at the profit split: -SkyUI team gets 25% of the total profits, which is then divided between the three people on the team. That's about 8% per member -Valve and Bethesda get 75% of the profits, with Valve getting 30-35% and Bethesda getting 40-45% So yeah, it is essentially low-cost, low-risk outsourcing for Bethesda in exchange for ~*reputation*~ and  funbux.
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Apr 25, 2015 03:48
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neogeo0823 posted:So, other than what I'm absolutely sure are the insanely money hungry *~Modding Superstars~* that only have dollar signs in their eyes, Valve, and Bethesda, has anyone actually seen anyone who's happy at this thing and the specter it brings looming in over our heads? A few libertarians including someone I know, but even that person doesn't particularly like the precedent it sets.
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Apr 25, 2015 03:49
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splifyphus posted:Yeah, I'm sure it was that monolithic entity 'modders' that came up with giving a 75% cut to Valve and developers. Even with the 75% cut, it's a lot more than they would get if they relied on whatever kindness gamers would donate to them. Anyway you know I distinctly remember folks voicing similar sentiments back in 2006 when Bethesda released the horse armor, now look, there are terrible games out there that are solely funded by microtransactions and they get so much money they can do superbowl commericals! Bethesda if anything, knows their audience, they know that gamers will ultimately back down. Thug Lessons posted:I hope you get run over by a truck full of rampaging gamers. If I was a modder myself I'd probably feel like I got run over by a truck of rampaging gamers everyday. Fortunately the money I would make on mods now would pay for the required drinking habits in order to cope with this. mikemil828 fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Apr 25, 2015 |
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Apr 25, 2015 03:50
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It's not so much that gamers will back down as it is that the collective internet has an attention span of like 2 days which is fuckin annoying
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Apr 25, 2015 03:51
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neogeo0823 posted:So, other than what I'm absolutely sure are the insanely money hungry *~Modding Superstars~* that only have dollar signs in their eyes, Valve, and Bethesda, has anyone actually seen anyone who's happy at this thing and the specter it brings looming in over our heads? Check out Neogaf if it's retards and shills that you're looking for.
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Apr 25, 2015 03:51
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Jabor posted:So what happens when someone makes a modmod to remove the upselling bullshit from the free version? What next, DRM on game mods? basically we're talking full on modmodgate here, were this scenario to play out
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Apr 25, 2015 03:52
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Is no one worried about the ideological concerns of fencing off one of the most free and creative niches of the internet behind a paywall?
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Apr 25, 2015 03:58
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neogeo0823 posted:So, other than what I'm absolutely sure are the insanely money hungry *~Modding Superstars~* that only have dollar signs in their eyes, Valve, and Bethesda, has anyone actually seen anyone who's happy at this thing and the specter it brings looming in over our heads? PCgamer seems to think this is the greatest thing ever, maybe they're getting a % of that money the modders never see. http://www.pcgamer.com/paid-mods-wont-kill-modding-and-might-make-it-better/
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Apr 25, 2015 03:58
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 Welcome to the ground floor of the revolution. We're taking this to the streets.
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Apr 25, 2015 03:58
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mr. nobody posted:basically we're talking full on modmodgate here, were this scenario to play out Jokes on all of you. Im already coding Gamebryo mod DRM as we speak. For mod authors to take advantage of it, it costs them 25c. The average user on the other hand gets to front a full $25.25 to use the DRM style mod which will be incorporated into 99% of all Steam Workshop mods within 3 weeks. The best part is that the DRM deleted system32 if you fail the check and its already been OKed by Valve, Bethesda, AND Zenimax. Heres the kicker, all 25% of my profits go to keep the Nexus alive, who will in turn rely on my anti-steam-workshop DRM to stop those terrible dual-resource users who think they can get away with using different websites for their mods. It will be a forced install with the Nexus Mod Manager.
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Apr 25, 2015 03:59
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Lacedaemonius posted:Is no one worried about the ideological concerns of fencing off one of the most free and creative niches of the internet behind a paywall? It is an opt-in system. Not a paywall.
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Apr 25, 2015 03:59
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neogeo0823 posted:So, other than what I'm absolutely sure are the insanely money hungry *~Modding Superstars~* that only have dollar signs in their eyes, Valve, and Bethesda, has anyone actually seen anyone who's happy at this thing and the specter it brings looming in over our heads? Greetings! I am a owner of stocks and bonds, and I can legally state that I fully approve of the move to monetize mods! As someone who has an interest in money, I think you would all agree that making money is a good thing! Who would be against compensation for hard work? Not me, that's who. It's unAmerican! That's why I support this move, a move to say thank you to modification developers for the difference they have made. This statement was in no way paid for, and is only the opinions expressed by me. It is in no way a statement or opinion of the Valve corporation, who I am not an employee of and never have been.
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Apr 25, 2015 03:59
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Bel Monte posted:Greetings! I am a owner of stocks and bonds, and I can legally state that I fully approve of the move to monetize mods! As someone who has an interest in money, I think you would all agree that making money is a good thing! Who would be against compensation for hard work? Not me, that's who. It's unAmerican! That's why I support this move, a move to say thank you to modification developers for the difference they have made. 75% of the payment for this post went to lowtax, the other 2.50 went to booze bought by lowtax
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Apr 25, 2015 04:02
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MrBims posted:It is an opt-in system. Not a paywall. Sorry, poor choice of words. How about "splitting the modding community, dividing it against itself, and erecting a paywall around significant segments of modding?"
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Apr 25, 2015 04:07
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IPlayVideoGames posted:
quote:I am a Korean, is a student.    Children of the Revolution indeed.
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Apr 25, 2015 04:08
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Lacedaemonius posted:Is no one worried about the ideological concerns of fencing off one of the most free and creative niches of the internet behind a paywall? I am. I'm okay with modders getting money for their work, but that's what donations are for. That has the added benefit of all the money going directly to the mod creators and not corporate assholes. MrBims posted:It is an opt-in system. Not a paywall. For now. God only knows what they'll do for future games.
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Apr 25, 2015 04:09
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Best mod: Extra Applequote:UPDATE 1.1 NOTES: 
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Apr 25, 2015 04:12
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How much do I have to pay Steam to give my lady elf a horsedick?
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Apr 25, 2015 04:13
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Oh no that game i haven't touched in three years is ruined.
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Apr 25, 2015 04:14
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schmitty9800 posted:Oh no that game i haven't touched in three years is ruined. Maybe some sephiroth hair and my little pony models would spice the game up for you.
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Apr 25, 2015 04:22
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schmitty9800 posted:Oh no that game i haven't touched in three years is ruined. And you'll never touch that horse dick game again thanks to Valve. THANKS VALVE.
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Apr 25, 2015 04:25
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You gotta pay the troll toll if you wanna get into the realistically detailed immersive horse hole
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Apr 25, 2015 04:34
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I must be really confused, I missed the part where mod makers are forced to charge for their mods and the rest of us are forced to buy mods. I'm under the obviously mistaken impression that people are free to not charge for mods or not purchase mods if they don't consider them worth the asking price, but that wouldn't explain the insane outrage I'm seeing unless gamers are entitled retard babies, which can't be true.
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Apr 25, 2015 04:44
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Adam Bowen posted:I must be really confused, I missed the part where mod makers are forced to charge for their mods and the rest of us are forced to buy mods. I'm under the obviously mistaken impression that people are free to not charge for mods or not purchase mods if they don't consider them worth the asking price, but that wouldn't explain the insane outrage I'm seeing unless gamers are entitled retard babies, which can't be true. goon Cardboard Box A did a pretty good job of summing up why this is bad, I bolded what might be going through the next Bethesda project manager's mind when something falls behind schedule. Delay game or let the modders fix it, and we can turn this into a profit off of our failure? Cardboard Box A posted:1) Many (most?) of the paid mods that are more than just a single item or model swap are compilations of free mods and/or depend on free mods. So they're trying to get paid for their hard work of repackaging other's hard work or that depends on other's hard work. mr. nobody fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Apr 25, 2015 |
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Apr 25, 2015 04:50
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Adam Bowen posted:I must be really confused, I missed the part where mod makers are forced to charge for their mods and the rest of us are forced to buy mods. I'm under the obviously mistaken impression that people are free to not charge for mods or not purchase mods if they don't consider them worth the asking price, but that wouldn't explain the insane outrage I'm seeing unless gamers are entitled retard babies, which can't be true. You're not confused, you're just insufferable.
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Apr 25, 2015 04:51
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Adam Bowen posted:I must be really confused, I missed the part where mod makers are forced to charge for their mods and the rest of us are forced to buy mods. I'm under the obviously mistaken impression that people are free to not charge for mods or not purchase mods if they don't consider them worth the asking price, but that wouldn't explain the insane outrage I'm seeing unless gamers are entitled retard babies, which can't be true. Your avatar obviously suits you.
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Apr 25, 2015 04:53
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I for one look forward to a future Gategate except this time there's money on the line.
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Apr 25, 2015 04:54
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Adam Bowen posted:I must be really confused, I missed the part where mod makers are forced to charge for their mods and the rest of us are forced to buy mods. I'm under the obviously mistaken impression that people are free to not charge for mods or not purchase mods if they don't consider them worth the asking price, but that wouldn't explain the insane outrage I'm seeing unless gamers are entitled retard babies, which can't be true. Well, you see, not making your mod pay to play means that someone can come along and sell it bundled with a sword reskin. It's already happened (sorta). Mod maker A sold their mod despite knowing full well it included bits from another mod maker B. A asked Valve if it was okay, and they said yes as long as it was free. B then contacts A saying "Not cool". A, being a more sensible person, agrees and decides to remove his mod from the Workshop, but Valve says "lol, no". A's mod is not up for purchase, but still exists to download. No refunds were issued to those who bought it and now A is in a legally bad area. A decided to go into hiding and has been demonized by many folks. B could issue a DMCA claim against Valve but that has serious implications and Valve's scary. So yes, I am entitled... to the mod making pie because my Dongs of Skyrim, which adds 10 new dongs to Skyrim for only $9.99! Made only possible by bundling it with Schlongs of Skyrim, but it's not like that mod was under legal protection like paid content or anything!
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Apr 25, 2015 04:55
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Most of the rage is really due to one mod, SkyUI. The chance to get some money out of an ungrateful populace gave the makers incentive to resume work on a mod they stopped updating nearly 2 years ago. Needless to say gamers did not like that one bit. mikemil828 fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Apr 25, 2015 |
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Apr 25, 2015 04:58
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quote:3) Mod makers only get 25% of the cut. This is in line with what TF2 shop owners make, sure, but here Bethesda is getting 45% of the cut - apparently they could choose less if they wanted to? Now Bethesda has a financial incentive to release buggy games and then make money off of the mods that fix their buggy games that they don't even have to lift a finger to make. this is pretty much the only point that matters. now when i see modding as a feature, i'll correctly interpret that as 'devs offloading bug fixing to players for questionable results in exchange for peanuts.' it's not a big deal, just don't buy games that hold up modding as a key feature.
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Apr 25, 2015 04:58
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Blazing Zero posted:just don't buy games that hold up modding as a key feature. This is good policy IMO.
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Apr 25, 2015 05:02
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Dapper Dan posted:I know I posted a lot in the Skyrim thread, but it is the most lovely deal imaginable for all parties involved except for Valve and Bethesda. Lets look at this: I see their $100 hurdle as being similar to the $100 upfront greenlight submission fee, in that they are trying to get it to serve a similar purpose, but by it's very nature the change appears scammier and more dishonest. It would probably be better if they required the $100 upfront to begin selling paid mods to begin with. It wouldn't necessarily fix all these problems with it but it could help with some - it would provide the floor of quality control like it does on greenlight (bad as it is, it was even worse of a flood before the fee) and give people something they could lose if they just want to repackage other people's work and sell it as their own and then be forced to take it down and lose their account when the original modders notify Valve about it. Well, still not a huge improvement.
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Apr 25, 2015 05:03
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mikemil828 posted:Most of the rage is really due to one mod, SkyUI. The chance to get some money out of an ungrateful populace gave the makers incentive to resume work on a mod they stopped updating nearly 2 years ago. Needless to say gamers did not like that one bit. Are you a gamer?
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