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Woolie Wool posted:Bush was actually the voice of reason in many cabinet meetings. He frequently shot down Darth Cheney and Paul "Adolf" Wolfowitz's crazier ideas. The whole dumb redneck thing was mostly an act. Not to say he wasn't a right-wing warmongering Jesus freak but there were many people in his administration who were much worse than he was. It wasn't just his accent that was constructed (and as a southerner I can confirm that rednecks ate that poo poo up) but his entire persona. On the other hand, gently caress that malignant turd. That whole administration should share a wing at the Hague.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:53
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Woolie Wool posted:Bush was actually the voice of reason in many cabinet meetings. He frequently shot down Darth Cheney and Paul "Adolf" Wolfowitz's crazier ideas. The whole dumb redneck thing was mostly an act. Not to say he wasn't a right-wing warmongering Jesus freak but there were many people in his administration who were much worse than he was. It wasn't just his accent that was constructed (and as a southerner I can confirm that rednecks ate that poo poo up) but his entire persona. Yeah this. If Bush ever went to Cheney or Wolfowitz about wanting them to "think big for Christsakes" they would have been tripping over themselves to fetch the launch codes for him.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:56
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MonsieurChoc posted:Let's leave america for a bit: Margaret loving Thatcher. If we restrict it to leaders with title president then the answer is Hindenburg. 
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Apr 29, 2015 23:06
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Ego-bot posted:Does this have anything to do with the last 15 years in Zimbabwe? Lots, actually. Chinese support of Mugabe killed the power sharing deal that America and her allies worked out in the wake of the disastrous land reform.
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Apr 29, 2015 23:08
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Sure sucks that Hoover has a thinktank named after him in Stanford promoting "economic freedom" *wink wink*
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Apr 29, 2015 23:20
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My Imaginary GF posted:Lots, actually. Chinese support of Mugabe killed the power sharing deal that America and her allies worked out in the wake of the disastrous land reform. Blame Manning and Assange too for revealing Tsvangirai's perfidy.
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Apr 30, 2015 06:29
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ninotoreS posted:didn't he inherit a terrible recession and more or less fixed it by the end of his 8 years, handing Bush Sr. and Bill those nice economies? and didn't he manage to generally work well and get things done with a congress controlled by the opposition? that in particular seems like an impossible feat these days Anyone who thinks Reagan was anywhere near the worst president is delusional. But I would not give him credit for the economy under Clinton. I would give Bush Sr. Much more credit than he gets. He made a ton of right choices from running the Iraq war well to raising taxes because they needed to be raised and having that cost him reelection.
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Apr 30, 2015 08:18
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Bush I was the victim of being the first to clean up Reagan's mess, e.g., tax hikes.
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Apr 30, 2015 11:24
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For most of his term Reagan was probably the least responsible president when it came to Cold War nuclear brinksmanship. He was most likely to get everyone nuked this side of the Cuban Missile Crisis. That has to be a big negative.
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Apr 30, 2015 17:43
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JonathonSpectre posted:Seriously, Andrew Johnson is the worst and it's not particularly close.
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Apr 30, 2015 17:54
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sean10mm posted:For most of his term Reagan was probably the least responsible president when it came to Cold War nuclear brinksmanship. He was most likely to get everyone nuked this side of the Cuban Missile Crisis. That has to be a big negative. I feel like this doesn't get enough attention. Reagan was bad domestically, but his foreign policy was a Team B/Neocon wet dream.
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Apr 30, 2015 18:08
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Iowa Snow King posted:I feel like this doesn't get enough attention. Reagan was bad domestically, but his foreign policy was a Team B/Neocon wet dream. The funny thing is that the real true believer neocons hated his guts for being limp on Polish Solidarity and shipping grain to Soviet bloc countries.
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Apr 30, 2015 18:12
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Lee Harvey Oswald posted:Bush I was the victim of being the first to clean up Reagan's mess, e.g., tax hikes. Bush I is one of the most underrated presidents.
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Apr 30, 2015 22:08
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TheImmigrant posted:Bush I is one of the most underrated presidents. to paraphrase someone else from here; his biggest mistake politically was that he didn't spray W. over Barbaras stomach when he had the chance
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May 1, 2015 03:01
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Barlow posted:Hoover never gets a fair shake. During the Coolidge adminstration, when Hoover was Secretary of Commerce he spent a large portion of his time warning people that economies were cyclical, that the United States could go into a depression, and that something should be done. Pretty much no one listened to him. The one person who could have legally intervened to regulate Wall Street, the governor of New York, Franklin Roosevelt basically told Hoover to get lost. Re Hoover and Roosevelt: I've read all of Hoover's press statements. In none of them did he ever express a belief that Wall Street ought to be regulated by the federal government or anyone else. Indeed, he never even suggested that Wall Street was responsible for the crisis. What instead comes across, repeatedly, is his firm belief in the "passing storm" theory, that matters would right themselves and action on his part was unnecessary and counterproductive. The main occasion on which Hoover and Roosevelt quarreled, was about whether to close banks before the inauguration. Hoover was the president and it was his prerogative. But for god knows what reason, he went to Roosevelt asking "mother may I." According to the record we have, Roosevelt told Hoover that he was the president and it was his drat prerogative and and he should grow a pair. It's true that Roosevelt hated Hoover. But he hated him for the right reasons: for being a political lightweight with no understanding of how to develop and execute policy, and for being deaf to public suffering. When Hoover finally did pass substantial interventions (in 1932, with Congressional Republicans begging him) they were of a different class character than the ones Roosevelt eventually put in place. Putting it bluntly, they were bailouts. Bills to secure business investments were signed. Bills to directly relieve the unemployed public, such as the Wagner bill, were rejected, and Hoover even scolded Congress for taking up a public works bill at all. (That bill, the Garner bill, was eventually passed in a more conservative form, but the hysterical way that Hoover reacted to the proposal is what I find offensive.) Look at how Obama has dealt with Congress on immigration and other issues where Republicans have blocked him. He has used his existing authority to make policy that has the force of law, without any additional laws being passed. Hoover, with his civics-class understanding of government (possibly influenced by Quaker notions of consensus) never could do this. His MO was setting up committees and bringing opposing interests to the White House to make gentlemen's agreements, and basically avoiding personal action every way he could, on the theory that "progress" and "work" within existing structures would take care of everything. tldr: He was a bad president. Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 09:41 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 08:59
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Gazpacho posted:Re Hoover and Roosevelt: I've read all of Hoover's press statements. In none of them did he ever express a belief that Wall Street ought to be regulated by the federal government or anyone else. Indeed, he never even suggested that Wall Street was responsible for the crisis. What instead comes across, repeatedly, is his firm belief in the "passing storm" theory, that matters would right themselves and action on his part was unnecessary and counterproductive. In other contexts the kind of leadership style Hoover used has worked pretty well. Scholars are pretty complementary of Eisenhower's "hidden handed Presidency" and it was much the same in using private informal meetings with business and political leaders to achieve policy objectives. The fact that Hoover couldn't fix things means he shouldn't be on a list of great Presidents anytime soon, but a failure to respond adequately to an unprecedented situation hardly makes him the worst leader, just a mediocre one. Save the worst leader labels for someone like James Buchanan, whose actions lead to the Dred Scott decision, sided with the slaveholders during the crisis in Kansas and then ignored Southern succession. Really a single one of these three actions easily should give Buchanan the number one spot.
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May 1, 2015 09:50
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Mecca-Benghazi posted:If we're talking worst prez, it's hard to beat Andrew "literally committed genocide" Jackson
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May 1, 2015 09:55
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Ahaha yeah since Oskar Schindler was the Commander-in-Chief of the German armed forces these situations are exactly the same.
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May 1, 2015 10:59
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an elected leader sending the army to beat up rich voters over widely hated non voters' rights is not going to happen 
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May 1, 2015 11:10
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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That's an argument that Jackson was an ordinary power-hungry rear end in a top hat instead of straight-up evil; it doesn't make him a hero like Schindler.
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May 1, 2015 11:14
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correct, and it probably describes most leaders
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May 1, 2015 11:19
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Andrew Jackson was killing and relocating natives well before he became president.
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May 1, 2015 13:25
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I've recently begun to think that George W. Bush's worst sin wasn't ignorance so much as incuriosity. He may well have been the voice of reason among his advisors, but he also kept them around even though they insisted in pressing frankly insane and monstrous agendas. It suggests to me that he only really gave half a poo poo about how the rest of the world reacted to his military adventures insofar as it might or might not land him in trouble or inconvenience. It's like he has Bart Simpson's faults without any of Bart Simpson's humanizing qualities. If there is a hell, both Reagan and Thatcher are there--not as clients but as staff. Reagan in particular looks to me like the type who could smile vacantly and think of jelly beans while taking notes for the "doctor" conducting "experiments" on the effects of flaying humans alive. Compared to these assholes, Nixon's transparent loathsomeness and bottomless, seething, paranoia-streaked hatred seem downright refreshing imo SatansOnion fucked around with this message at 15:41 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 15:33
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Imo Stalin's the worst leader of all time, if you wanna talk about anyone in the world. -caused the deaths millions of Ukranians to die in a state-sponsored famine -caused the deaths of millions of his own people due to idiotic paranoia castrating the Soviet military before WWII -caused the deaths of millions of people all over the world, thanks to exporting a broken, gay oppressive political system to the four corners of the globe
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May 1, 2015 20:24
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-Troika- posted:Imo Stalin's the worst leader of all time, if you wanna talk about anyone in the world. Stalin was actually strong and good, and is my friend.
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May 1, 2015 20:26
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-Troika- posted:Imo Stalin's the worst leader of all time, if you wanna talk about anyone in the world. As bad as those are he still beat Hitler and industrialized Russia. He probably only killed two or three times more people than he would have if he were a really good leader.
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May 2, 2015 05:51
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Dr Cheeto posted:Andrew Jackson was killing and relocating natives well before he became president. But he was a good person who was only doing it to build up indian-murdering cred to get elected, so you can't say that's wrong.
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May 2, 2015 05:56
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-Troika- posted:Imo Stalin's the worst leader of all time, if you wanna talk about anyone in the world. -Built the Soviet Union into an industrial power capable of defeating the might of the German Army, out of a nation that had been ravaged by civil war and suffered a string of unbroken defeat against Germany in the previous war Stalin was a monster, but worst leader of all time he was definitely not. At the very least, the guy who started a war with Stalin that he then lost and which resulted in his country's total surrender and 50 years of occupation was worse at running a country.
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May 2, 2015 05:59
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Lol at this incredibly stupid OP. Nixon was the worst leader of all time because of some stuff I made up that isn't true - also, what's genocide and who has ever committed it?
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May 2, 2015 06:12
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JonathonSpectre posted:1.Andrew Johnson: Completely squandered the victory in the Civil War by being an unrepentant scumbag white supremacist motherfucker. Just imagine how different the country would be today if staunch anti-slavery Union man Hannibal Hamlin had been President after Lincoln. Don't think about it too long or you'll get depressed and want to drink poison. Seriously, Andrew Johnson is the worst and it's not particularly close. But really, gently caress Andrew Johnson. Bush II was definitely quite bad at presidenting but I feel like it's too close to have an unbiased opinion on it.
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May 2, 2015 06:14
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Clearly Richard Nixon is responsible for the drug war which began while he was college student, duh guys.
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May 2, 2015 06:16
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Also I hear he deregulated our major industries and gutted unions thereby killing the middle class. These are all true facts that happened. He definitely was a ware mongerer who started Vietnam and was not elected largely because he hinted broadly at having a masterstroke plan to end the war, definitely. Also he started Vietnam before he was a president.
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May 2, 2015 06:19
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He also invented dirty politics and there wasn't a conservative machine already in place humming along under the power of the John Birch society and the National Review and the OG College Republicans and this never happened first under Goldwater, it was Nixon, he invented awful conservative politics. Also Ronald Regan didn't spend decades brainwashing middle class whites with lies on radio shows and GE television, this never happened. Nixon did it all. JFK didn't have a sea of dirty money behind him either in the first election that Nixon lost. Something something China.
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May 2, 2015 06:22
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Well he did sabotage the peace talks before he was president, that's just a matter of historical fact.
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May 2, 2015 06:22
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That settles it then, he's the worst leader in the history of the world.
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May 2, 2015 06:23
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"Of all time", that includes other worlds too.
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May 2, 2015 06:25
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If we're counting all worlds, we all know in our hearts its Xenu
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May 2, 2015 06:26
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District Selectman posted:He also invented dirty politics and there wasn't a conservative machine already in place humming along under the power of the John Birch society and the National Review and the OG College Republicans and this never happened first under Goldwater, it was Nixon, he invented awful conservative politics. Also Ronald Regan didn't spend decades brainwashing middle class whites with lies on radio shows and GE television, this never happened. Nixon did it all. JFK didn't have a sea of dirty money behind him either in the first election that Nixon lost. Something something China. whoa what's with these facts let's get back into Stalin apologia
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May 2, 2015 06:41
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District Selectman posted:If we're counting all worlds, we all know in our hearts its Xenu Xenu found a solution to the issue of galactic overpopulation.
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May 2, 2015 06:43
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Stalin invented George W Bush and the illegal weed, so I'd say he's #2 worst ever behind Nixon who invented crying and cancer puppies
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May 2, 2015 06:44
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