Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Swartz
Jul 28, 2005

by FactsAreUseless


Serious post:

I know people like to make fun of people with autism on this forum and elsewhere, but in all seriousness don't you think Travis Bickle of Taxi Driver had Aspergers? Granted, now there is only Autism Spectrum Disorder in the latest DSM, but I still feel the word is applicable.

As per DSM IV-TR:

DSM posted:

(I) Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

(A) marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
(B) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
(C) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interest or achievements with other people, (e.g.. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
(D) lack of social or emotional reciprocity

(II) Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(C) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects


(III) The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

(IV) There is no clinically significant general delay in language (E.G. single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

(V) There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction) and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

(VI) Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia."

Of course Aspergers did not "exist" when Taxi Driver came out. Paul Schrader is simply a brilliant writer and I feel he happened to channel a real thing.



Criteria he meets:

  • I-C: He seems to have very few interests and he does not share them.
  • I-D: He seems to have problems expressing appropriate emotions.
  • II-A: Guns and violence.
  • III: Socially Travis is very bad at expressing himself. He lacks peer relationships. Occupationally the only work he was able to find that suited him was driving a taxi around.
  • IV: Impossible to know.
  • V: Again, film doesn't delve into it.
  • VI: I can't think of any other disorders Travis would have, and I would count Schizophrenia out.


Taxi Driver is one of my favorite films and it only dawned on me the other day when watching it that he has Aspergers syndrome.

Does anyone else agree or am I off the mark? What are your theories into Travis psychologically?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!

DeNiro did research mental illness for the role, so Travis was always intended to have some sort of mental disorder. Although I don't think they [Scorsese & co.] ever defined what it was specifically.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours
I don't go in for the trendy diagnosis. Inadequate, assassin-type personality.

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


aspergers doesn't exist OP. severe PTSD does

Swartz
Jul 28, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

icantfindaname posted:

aspergers doesn't exist OP. severe PTSD does

What about mild PTSD. Does that exist?

Mr. Unlucky
Nov 1, 2006

by R. Guyovich
he`s got it like putins got it

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


Swartz posted:

What about mild PTSD. Does that exist?

yeah

girth brooks part 2
Sep 6, 2011

Bush did 911
Fun Shoe

TrixRabbi posted:

DeNiro did research mental illness for the role, so Travis was always intended to have some sort of mental disorder. Although I don't think they [Scorsese & co.] ever defined what it was specifically.

The character was also based heavily off Arthur Bremer's diary, so whatever the gently caress is wrong with that guy.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours

girth brooks part 2 posted:

The character was also based heavily off Arthur Bremer's diary, so whatever the gently caress is wrong with that guy.

I've always liked this witticism from Bremer:

quote:

According to 1997 parole records, psychological testing indicated releasing him would be risky. He argued in his June 1996 hearing that "Shooting segregationist dinosaurs wasn't as bad as harming mainstream politicians".

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 272 days!

icantfindaname posted:

aspergers doesn't exist OP. severe PTSD does

There is also Acute vs Chronic. Also Complex PTSD, which is actually a separate diagnosis and is specific to survivors of certain scenarios of protracted powerlessness, usually as a child.

Bickle could also have Schizoid Personality Disorder.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours
I'm no pusher, OP. I never have pushed.

Fish of hemp
Apr 1, 2011

A friendly little mouse!

icantfindaname posted:

aspergers doesn't exist OP. severe PTSD does

My headcanon is that being a Vietnam veteran is just an elobarate fantasy Travis has built for himself. He's not a nobody from the bad part of town, he's a war hero!

GODS NOT REAL
Sep 25, 2012

YOU STUPID BUNNIES
He had some form of mental illness I think because I remember reading somewhere that the director said Travis was living in a fantasy world and a lot of the events in the film happened only inside his head.

Yaws
Oct 23, 2013

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

I've always liked this witticism from Bremer:

He had a point

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 272 days!

Fish of hemp posted:

My headcanon is that being a Vietnam veteran is just an elobarate fantasy Travis has built for himself. He's not a nobody from the bad part of town, he's a war hero!

That wound fit the Schizoid hypothesis perfectly.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.

Fish of hemp posted:

My headcanon is that being a Vietnam veteran is just an elobarate fantasy Travis has built for himself. He's not a nobody from the bad part of town, he's a war hero!

But then, he did have specific details figured out, that other vets grill him on and he is able to answer. He could still have fabricated them, of course, but he's 26 in the mid-1970's...it's not like being in the military was an unlikely reality.

I assume he actually was in the military, but that the motivations you list are why he did it. My headcanon is that he joined voluntarily, to explore the kind of violence he craves in a context that encourages it. As you say, he's not a weird loser, he's a war hero.

Of course, a social situation where he's forced into a structured dynamic with other soldiers also sounds like it'd appeal to him. The civilian world is unstructured, socially unforgiving; the military is a place where decisions are made for you, and you're not isolated because you're part of a platoon. You'd think he'd still be in the military, which suggests to me his instability proved a problem there, too, honorably discharged or not.


As for whether he's autism spectrum or not: well, who knows? An answer to that doesn't address why his loneliness pushes him so directly to violence. He could've become obsessed with trains or baseball cards, but he chose guns.

girth brooks part 2
Sep 6, 2011

Bush did 911
Fun Shoe

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

I've always liked this witticism from Bremer:

Amazing. Dude owns.

Alfred P. Pseudonym
May 29, 2006

And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8

It's definitely come to mind before, op.

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 272 days!
The fun part of armchair psychology: it doesn't just have to be one, and differential diagnosis can be really hard even for actual professionals.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours

Yaws posted:

He had a point

He did his time and was vindicated by history.

raditts
Feb 21, 2001

The Kwanzaa Bot is here to protect me.


HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

I've always liked this witticism from Bremer:

I can't find it in myself to disagree with this.

Darwin Phasetrot
Apr 20, 2015

You're all just skeletons
trying to fool me.

Xealot posted:


Of course, a social situation where he's forced into a structured dynamic with other soldiers also sounds like it'd appeal to him. The civilian world is unstructured, socially unforgiving; the military is a place where decisions are made for you, and you're not isolated because you're part of a platoon. You'd think he'd still be in the military, which suggests to me his instability proved a problem there, too, honorably discharged or not.


Excellent point - that makes sense to me.

That being said, I feel like his inclination toward violent thoughts was not really present before the beginning of the film, or maybe even before joining the military.

But it's been a while since I've watched it.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

UNRULY_HOUSEGUEST
Jul 19, 2006

mea culpa
As long as we're doing speculative diagnoses on fictional characters I would say more schizotypal disorder, as far as Travis fits any DSM definition.

Wikipedia's article on schizotypal posted:

Inappropriate or constricted affect (the individual appears cold and aloof);
Behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric or peculiar;
Poor rapport with others and a tendency to withdraw socially;
Odd beliefs or magical thinking, influencing behavior and inconsistent with subcultural norms;
Suspiciousness or paranoid ideas;
Obsessive ruminations without inner resistance, often with dysmorphophobic, sexual or aggressive contents;
Unusual perceptual experiences including somatosensory (bodily) or other illusions, depersonalization or derealization;
Vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, over-elaborate or stereotyped thinking, manifested by odd speech or in other ways, without gross incoherence;
Occasional transient quasi-psychotic episodes with intense illusions, auditory or other hallucinations and delusion-like ideas, usually occurring without external provocation.

Autism doesn't cover the undercurrent of psychosis, and I think Travis exhibits more of a desire to connect with people than objects, he's just certain that he'll fail, and deeply frustrated about it. Also in schizotypal you have the obsessiveness, aggression, paranoia, alienation, his mode of expression being coherent but closed or vague, and the derealisation you see over the end of the film. I think that's a pretty strong overlap.

Although obviously what's on screen is mid-70s Martin Scorsese's direction of Robert DeNiro based on a script inspired by Paul Schrader identifying with Arthur Bremer, so that's off the charts in terms of psychological issues.

  • Locked thread