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Ah, gently caress it. I still want a SRT Challenger. 
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Jul 25, 2015 04:18
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movax posted:LIN and CAN in the traditional German fashion are designed to go together -- take your driver door, the idea is to throw in one CAN module (pricier, more complex) that has local LIN links to other functions in the door (window motors, switches, mirror control, etc.). It looks really pretty in a system level diagram -- you have complex nodes, and then simpler nodes scattered around the vehicle for the low-bandwidth, sensor/actuator stuff that the complex node controls / filters/ processes and sends out to the rest of the bus. yeah, I have to say that is pretty neat. I have a pile of ATA6631s and ATmega64M1s set up exactly that way right now, actually.
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Jul 25, 2015 04:46
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Sweating bullets as the car checked the firmware file and updated to the safe version of UConnect: One of the modules was the wireless radio, and verifying that took forever. I thought it was frozen at one point. I wonder if there were multiple extra checks run on it? Even if I'm a car guy, I still think of cars as appliances. This Internet-of-Things paradigm shift, where everything has to be enabled, is bugging me.
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Aug 6, 2015 07:09
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Went to the BlackHat talk on that today. It was pretty interesting. No where near enough time to go into a lot of detail, but the white paper (90+ pages) will be released on Monday for those that want all the details. The network change Sprint made a week or two back eliminated the ability to access the cars over the cellular network in that way. Unpatched cars are probably still accessible over WiFi but that would require someone to have actually paid for the hotspot feature. The WiFi uses WPA2 and the default password is strong enough, but the initial password generating code was reverse engineered and in most cases there will only be a few dozen password options. The current time is the only variable/unknown in the algorithm but the car likely doesn't know the time when it first boots and generates the password so it just uses a default time (Jan 1 2013 if I remember) and starts counting up from there. So basically take that date plus about 30 seconds and plug it into the algorithm. The update filters the various ports. No idea if they actually fixed the ability to run arbitrary commands and code on the head unit (doubt it) or did anything about the V850 chip's (which is accessible from the head unit and talks on the CAN bus) firmware not bring signed or secured in anyway.
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Aug 6, 2015 07:54
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Galler posted:The update filters the various ports. No idea if they actually fixed the ability to run arbitrary commands and code on the head unit (doubt it) or did anything about the V850 chip's (which is accessible from the head unit and talks on the CAN bus) firmware not bring signed or secured in anyway. Huh, wonder which supplier made that -- we were using V850s about 10 years ago for a lot of modules destined for Nissan and Toyota vehicles -- HVAC control, etc. Firmware updates were never signed, but there was a (static) password to get into the CAN bootloader to deploy the updated software.
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Aug 6, 2015 08:04
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Galler posted:Went to the BlackHat talk on that today. It was pretty interesting. No where near enough time to go into a lot of detail, but the white paper (90+ pages) will be released on Monday for those that want all the details. Really the thing that's most interesting about the exploit was the remote accessibility, as the threat of an attacker plugging into your car and doing something that causes it to crash is the same threat that's been accepted around cars since we started with the drat things. The remote stuff is easily fixed by a proper post car manufacturing QA process. Along with dyno testing and other QC/QA functionality, there should be a scan/fuzzing the car's networking equipment/IP/etc for flaws. At least at that point you can demonstrate due diligence on externally accessible interfaces, and you can catch failures by 3rd parties to meet your security requirements, which is likely what happened here - no one expected someone to come in on that vector, but no one validated that that was the case either.
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Aug 6, 2015 17:22
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Honestly, such a thing shouldn't be possible. Stability control, abs, etc is all possible without making those systems exposed to another system with internet access.
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Aug 6, 2015 18:56
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Coredump posted:Honestly, such a thing shouldn't be possible. Stability control, abs, etc is all possible without making those systems exposed to another system with internet access. Absolutely correct, but most of the management of groups designing / building this stuff is utterly incompetent. Same problem exists with avionics, but their stakes have always been higher (killing a couple hundred people at once vs. a couple here and there), and they have some pressure from the government (terrorists!  ) to get some poo poo right.
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Aug 6, 2015 20:20
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Coredump posted:Honestly, such a thing shouldn't be possible. Stability control, abs, etc is all possible without making those systems exposed to another system with internet access. Sure, it's possible - but consider the complexity of a modern "ABS" module. It's really a heavily integrated auto-brake that might be called upon to handle ABS, stability control, LSD emulation, and brake-on-collision-warning. These are all cool, safety-enhancing things, but a system that complex, that's not named "Space Shuttle," is almost guaranteed to have bugs. Manufacturers know this, and they're well aware of their options. A fully air-gapped system would work, but a major bug would mean either a massively expensive recall, or a coverup. So, why not integrate them into the same system that handles the radio/nav/whatever, that has a firmware update mechanism built in? A dealership tech can quietly update it with a cable in the dash, as part of normal service that also fixes radio bugs and updates the nav map. The recall bill in the billions just got shaved to a tiny fraction of that cost. And once you can hook any component of the system up to the internet, why even bother with the dealerships? Just have a devops guy click the "push update" button, and every car gets the fix, labelled "fix for Bluetooth connectivity issues and other minor problems," before consumers, regulators, or courts ever even know a problem existed. I'm not saying that this is a good thing. But it is a completely understandable decision when you realize that leadership at auto companies want very much to avoid a recall at any cost, and haven't had any reason to think about security risks.
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Aug 16, 2015 20:12
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Again, this is why I'm glad I bought a car with a manual + mechanically operated ebrake. gently caress that poo poo ten ways from Sunday. In other news the VCHC is about to go down as one of the most epic in our history. I'll post videos and photos as I can here and hopefully the biggest Viper burnout of all time (I'm considering my tires done after the event even though they have a good amount of tread.) For starters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9ObruM554g
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Aug 17, 2015 00:21
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That's not a burnout. THIS is a burnout.  We all eagerly await the destruction of your P Zeros.
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Aug 17, 2015 02:08
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Space Gopher posted:A fully air-gapped system would work, but a major bug would mean either a massively expensive recall, or a coverup. So, why not integrate them into the same system that handles the radio/nav/whatever, that has a firmware update mechanism built in? A dealership tech can quietly update it with a cable in the dash, as part of normal service that also fixes radio bugs and updates the nav map. The recall bill in the billions just got shaved to a tiny fraction of that cost. There's a happy medium in there which would be secure enough that most should be comfortable with it while still allowing such updates to be delivered remotely. Require the car be "booted" to an update mode before critical components can have their firmware updated. Use physical switch, a "cheat code" entered in via inputs like brake and gas that live on the "secure" network, a special command sent over the OBD2 port, whatever. Make it so the car won't start in this mode to prevent idiots from just leaving it enabled and have it control the write protect lines on the actual flash chips. If a critical component update is required the manufacturer can release it along with instructions on how to enable the update mode. A lot of people will be able to do it themselves, and for those that can't it now doesn't need to take up any skilled service tech time. Any random employee with a USB key can do the job. These are not unsolvable problems, they're not even really hard problems and they've been solved a number of times in different applications, just as with so many other things relating to digital security it's a matter of getting the right people to care when there's always pressure to get the product released yesterday.
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Aug 17, 2015 03:24
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Yup - that's exactly it.
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Aug 22, 2015 00:31
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kimbo305 posted:Sweating bullets as the car checked the firmware file and updated to the safe version of UConnect: Wait when did you get a, (is that a) Tesla? Personally, I have had a terrible experience with computers and cellphones ever since i had em. poo poo always goes wary, im so nervous this is all headed to maintain casual poo poo in my casual car.
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Aug 22, 2015 00:48
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Preoptopus posted:Wait when did you get a, (is that a) Tesla? Zoom, enhance: 
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Aug 22, 2015 00:51
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oh. approved.
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Aug 22, 2015 01:27
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More e/n from me. So Chrysler uses a 3rd party company called ISG to handle buyback situations. A timeline: 6/25: I manage to get a case opened within FCA's ticket system, after navigating SRT's support system for a few days. 7/7: I escalate the case a few times myself before finally getting a person who can offer some remedies. 7/15: He passes me over to ISG, who sends me some forms to fill out. After shooting them a huge wad of data, they hunker down to prepare a buyback proposal. 7/22: I receive and agree to ISG's proposed buyback price, which is thankfully 100% of my taxes, fees, financing, etc. 8/10: I ask how things are. ISG says FCA cut the check and they're waiting for it to get mailed to the receiving dealership (where I'll turn the car in) 8/20: I check in again, wondering how long a check in the mail will take. Oops, ISG says no check was actually mailed. Any buyback that is more than $75k takes extra levels of approval, the status of which are opaque to me. ISG says this process can take up to 60 days.  how many extra people need to sign off on this?I ask my one contact in FCA who handled my situation when I opened it up with the SRT service center. He said he'd try to expedite it. So 2 months have passed, and I have no clue how far away I am from being able to turn the car in.
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Aug 22, 2015 04:16
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Jeez, it's like DV stole your domestic-brand-luck and is now using it for his own nefarious purposes, Kimbo305.
Militant Lesbian fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Aug 22, 2015 |
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Aug 22, 2015 06:02
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HotCanadianChick posted:Jeez, it's like DV stole your domestic-brand-luck and is now using it for his own nefarious purposes, Raluek. Oh poo poo what did I do I don't even have a mopar 
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Aug 22, 2015 06:36
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Raluek posted:Oh poo poo what did I do I don't even have a mopar Oh poo poo, was phone posting and couldn't remember which poster I was replying to, sorry 
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Aug 22, 2015 11:59
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Man, I hope my domestic brand luck is still intact, since that's all I'll be driving for the forseeable future
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Aug 22, 2015 20:07
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kimbo305 posted:More e/n from me. So Chrysler uses a 3rd party company called ISG to handle buyback situations. A timeline: Most of this sounds like horseshit but it's really that Chrysler is still in flux post-buyout. I'd get with the GM of the dealer and make friends with him since he'll be the one handling it, don't talk to people down the foodchain about it. If you post on VOA there's a lot of people with ISG contacts that can give a kick in the rear end, but really, just enjoy the free Viper. They'll get around to it. mods thread title change to "Free Viper appreciation station" plz
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Aug 22, 2015 21:17
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So, from what I'm gathering in this thread, there are going to be a lot of lemon Vipers on the market for cheap eventually. Kinda like the Ducati 749/999 stalling issue.
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Aug 22, 2015 22:44
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Mine's not even a lemon, at least not yet. I didn't do the 500mi oil change, but gonna do right by the future owner by getting a 1k change. It snuck up on me cuz I didn't think this process would take this long. Have also been watching oil like a hawk thanks to DV's warnings. That said, if it's got a bad bearing in it, it's only a matter of time. I'm really curious how they'll price it.
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Aug 23, 2015 00:55
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DV, where'd the hillclimb trip report wind up? (I don't keep up with the chat thread- too much, too fast). Wanna see some dream cars bouncing off their rev limiters.
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Aug 23, 2015 22:18
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glyph posted:DV, where'd the hillclimb trip report wind up? (I don't keep up with the chat thread- too much, too fast). I'll do a photo dump in a thread since a couple of other AI'ers are coming. I don't know what Motor Trend's time line for producing episodes is either, but I'll see if they can give me some footage bits to throw on youtube.
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Aug 23, 2015 22:23
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The buyback 3rd party called and set up an appointment at the dealer closest to me. Apparently, I'm getting the whole check and am supposed to pay the bank's part back myself. They also want the title back, which... is with the bank. I've asked them twice how they see this playing out, but have been given no confident answer. So I'm assuming this is not the only trip in going to have to make to get this sorted. I've probably had a lot more neutral of an attitude about FCA going into this than most people here, but I'm so fed up with this. Also, DV, did either of yours have a clutch that started chattering? I know your TA had some engagement consistency issues, but didn't know if chatter were present.
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Aug 31, 2015 00:11
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Me this morning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tDN5DYsNk0&t=49s After all that sweating, the turn-in process went pretty quickly. I'm thinking about a couple other Vipers out there, but mostly, I'm trying to relax and decompress from the whole experience. e: oh, one more thing, after I turned the car in, I got this cool custom patch USB key in the mail:  I feel like I'm living in Hackers right now. kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Sep 7, 2015 |
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Sep 2, 2015 22:16
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Posting to update and keep this out of the archives. Chrysler was dumb enough to sell me a lifetime bumper to bumper warranty on the car, and my friend owns the biggest/best Dodge dealership in the Bay Area, so I got it at cost. Apparently Mopar extended warranty doesn't draw any distinctions between a Caravan and a Viper when they sell them, so for the princely sum of $2000 I will personally cause the downfall of FCA. A few things things broke on the car - the shifter kept coming loose and the bezel plate on the cover finally broke from them popping it loose to re-tighten it several times. It also needed an amp and a navigation unit, the stereo started making awful dying sounds and finally quit, so I pulled the amp fuse until I got around to taking it in. It'll have a new shifter handle, clamp assembly and so forth in the transmission as well. It's been sitting around for weeks while they ship the wrong parts to them over and over again, of course, because Chrysler. I've been harassing Kumho USA to sell the ACR tire in the 18" wheel size for the rest of us non-ACR owning plebs. In case you've been living under a rock, the ACR took back the Laguna Seca production car lap record, crushing the original TA's time and the Porsche 918 & McLaren P1 in the process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXP3Eij2GGA At the beginning of 2016, Bondurant will be dumping their fleet (including the C7 Corvettes  ) for Viper TA 2.0's and ACRs. I never used the coupon I got for the track day from this car, so I'm going to sign up for that one next year. Since my car is the middle child between the old TA and the ACR (better aero, better brakes, slightly more power, different gearing, alignment, etc etc) I was kind of hoping to see a time for the TA 2.0, but I don't think that's going to happen for now. At the end of the month, I will be returning to Laguna Seca for a one day track event, so I'll have some more content then.Here are some new photos courtesy of the folks at the hillclimb:             I love this car so much. It's a dramatic leap forward from the M3, but I've driven lots of great cars over the years and it's still the best car I've ever driven. Team Viper did it right: Simplify, then add lightness. They applied extremely sophisticated techniques to keep their formula working, reducing complexity while improving performance. How they can afford to build a car with carbon fiber body panels and chassis development from Ferrari is beyond my understanding though. Underneath, the Viper is still basically the same car, but thanks to the extensive re-engineering, it's lighter, stiffer, faster, and has dramatically improved handling. They've managed this despite having to add a lot of weight to the car in the form of interiors, stereos, and more airbags. The end result is that the TA feels like an Exige with 500hp, and I think we can probably all agree that's a good thing.
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Nov 8, 2015 21:52
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Das Volk posted:Posting to update and keep this out of the archives. Chrysler was dumb enough to sell me a lifetime bumper to bumper warranty on the car, and my friend owns the biggest/best Dodge dealership in the Bay Area, so I got it at cost. Apparently Mopar extended warranty doesn't draw any distinctions between a Caravan and a Viper when they sell them, so for the princely sum of $2000 I will personally cause the downfall of FCA. Oh man, they literally have no idea what they've done  This is going to be amazing. quote:love this car so much. It's a dramatic leap forward from the M3, but I've driven lots of great cars over the years and it's still the best car I've ever driven. Team Viper did it right: Simplify, then add lightness. They applied extremely sophisticated techniques to keep their formula working, reducing complexity while improving performance. How they can afford to build a car with carbon fiber body panels and chassis development from Ferrari is beyond my understanding though. Underneath, the Viper is still basically the same car, but thanks to the extensive re-engineering, it's lighter, stiffer, faster, and has dramatically improved handling. They've managed this despite having to add a lot of weight to the car in the form of interiors, stereos, and more airbags. The end result is that the TA feels like an Exige with 500hp, and I think we can probably all agree that's a good thing. Don't forget that it looks absolutely ridiculous and unlike anything else on the road. It's a big brash lecture in the proper application of brute force with a dash of sophistication added later down the line. It's the absolute thinnest possible veneer of Lord Greystoke over Tarzan, the brutal savage murder-king of the apes. Because you don't become king of the apes by being a nice guy.
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Nov 8, 2015 22:04
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Das Volk posted:I've driven lots of great cars over the years and it's still the best car I've ever driven. Team Viper did it right: Simplify, then add lightness. They applied extremely sophisticated techniques to keep their formula working, reducing complexity while improving performance. How they can afford to build a car with carbon fiber body panels and chassis development from Ferrari is beyond my understanding though. Underneath, the Viper is still basically the same car, but thanks to the extensive re-engineering, it's lighter, stiffer, faster, and has dramatically improved handling. Do you want my copy of the SRT development journal picture book? It doesn't cover things in tremendous detail, but it goes address how they went from GenIV to GenV on a tiny budget. Basically, they warmed the IV over as precisely as possible. They did exactly 2 things to the engine (variable timing cam and better intake manifold) to pick up 40hp. And similar for the rest of the car -- try to target the most rewarding low-hanging fruit and deliver. This makes me think that, with careful aftermarket suspension choices, you can have a very fast GenIV, even if those are exactly super discounted yet.
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Nov 8, 2015 22:59
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I love that car. This thread gives me vicarious joy.
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Nov 8, 2015 23:54
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kimbo305 posted:Do you want my copy of the SRT development journal picture book? It doesn't cover things in tremendous detail, but it goes address how they went from GenIV to GenV on a tiny budget. Basically, they warmed the IV over as precisely as possible. They did exactly 2 things to the engine (variable timing cam and better intake manifold) to pick up 40hp. And similar for the rest of the car -- try to target the most rewarding low-hanging fruit and deliver. This makes me think that, with careful aftermarket suspension choices, you can have a very fast GenIV, even if those are exactly super discounted yet. That would be great, thanks! Seeing them do things like re-creating the chassis for stiffness while reducing welding by 70% was interesting to me. I'll email you my current mailing address.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:20
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I love that car and the blue on your Viper is amazing. I'm a little sad that production is ending on the Viper after MY2017 but it's understandable because seemingly no one is buying them. It's a crazy bargain for $85k. Question for you Das Volk. I know you loved your e92 M3, what's your take on the new F80 M3 sedan? I need a car with back seats a human can use (not the 911 "these back seats are good for 5 minutes max" concept I was going with prior to now). It would not be my track car and the price delta isn't a huge concern. I think for a daily I'd prefer the torque. Interested to hear your take on it having owned two or three e92s.
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Nov 9, 2015 03:57
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Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers
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You know someone's gonna ask, any good video off that camera stuck to your fender?
LloydDobler fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 04:00
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LloydDobler posted:You know someone's gonna ask, any good video off that camera stuck to your fender? If there's anything this thread is lacking it's more Viper noises 
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Nov 9, 2015 12:54
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LloydDobler posted:You know someone's gonna ask, any good video off that camera stuck to your fender? I thought I had posted it in this thread, but it looks like I didn't. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlI8CSD_T5s
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Nov 10, 2015 00:13
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How often each week would you say that you look at the car and think "holy poo poo I own that awesome childhood fantasy car"? My Jeep is worth $10k on a good day and is kinda beat up, and I still catch myself looking back over my shoulder as I walk away from the parking lot.
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Nov 10, 2015 00:40
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Das Volk posted:I thought I had posted it in this thread, but it looks like I didn't. Thanks! That's loving sweet.
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Nov 10, 2015 10:26
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Astonishing Wang posted:How often each week would you say that you look at the car and think "holy poo poo I own that awesome childhood fantasy car"? Some time mid-high school, I was at the grocery store and leafed through the current issue of Sport Compact Car. One of the editors was in his black 4th gen Camaro SS doing a burnout in a parking lot. His piece was about why he [a Socal Asian guy] was all about American muscle cars in an era of Japanese sport compacts. Keep in mind this was before F&F 1. His thesis boiled down to "because it has torque and doesn't apologize and goes against the grain." That mindset really stuck with me through all the years and definitely influenced my car purchases. Not speaking for DV, but the car is way more fulfilling behind the wheel. For all the FAHVE HUNNERT jokes, I truly believe that the Viper makes a statement about America. When the V10 shakes to life in the front, and the exhaust opens up with a hideous cackle, you know you're in something different. That was the satisfaction the car gave to me. The gas pedal is 100% engineered savagery. I got way more buzz from settling into the seat than from looking at the car walking to or away. That's not to say the car isn't also visually impressive. Despite all the wild curves and vents and cutouts, though, it's still a pretty small car. It has more presence roaring down a road then parked 20ft from you. I had an insane twinge of jealousy when I saw a black one loping around the block when I pulled up to work one morning. That was the only time I had any tiny regrets about returning mine back to Chrysler.
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Nov 10, 2015 19:32
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