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There is a time block in the hub room of the Fire temple, if you can get past those boulders as kid link its easy to get too.
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Jun 14, 2015 02:41
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Admiral H. Curtiss posted:Does Dodongo's Cavern have a time block? That would probably work. Pretty sure it doesn't. You don't learn the Song of Time until all three kid dungeons are (supposed to be) completed.
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Jun 14, 2015 02:50
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Not gonna lie, this feels like I'm 12 again and I'm reading about people trying to find a way into the Land of Light so they could add the Tri-Force to Link's inventory... All because of a little bit of shading on the inventory screen. 
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Jun 14, 2015 03:01
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The Master Quest version of Dodongo's Cavern has SoT blocks. I definitely remember them being present in both times, when I didn't revisit it until after becoming an adult. This was on the 3DS version, if that makes a difference.
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Jun 14, 2015 03:25
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Mordaedil posted:They really wanted to, the big holdback was when they decided to put the time traveling mechanic in the Temple of Time with regards to putting the Master Sword back in its pedestal. It became too time-consuming for the players to move between worlds constantly just to solve a puzzle and it was summarily dropped. Morroque posted:I guess the biggest reason nothing really happened with the timeline mechanic in this game was that Young Link and Adult Link just aren't really different enough for anything to be interesting. Adult Link has the hookshot and a higher jump. Other strength-based and equipment-based items also come up as you progress deeper into the game. Young Link has crawling, boomerang trickshots, and the deku stick (before fire arrows and Din's Fire, at least). Plus you could have made more kid-only items if you were developing the game down those lines for more than just a couple of dungeons before switching. I'm also guessing the writers were working pretty independently of the programmers. So the team building the engine included possibilities that might get used
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Jun 14, 2015 04:02
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I think there's a Song of Time block in the Forest Temple, during a block climbing puzzle. It's an odd puzzle element, not used very often. Likely because the core concepts were scrapped. The Triforce was also in the game at some point. The leaked Debug Master Quest ROM has a lot of extra unused data, simply because the disc meant they didn't have to fit it into a cart and compress things, and it was built using the original source tree. Link's actor has slots for three Triforce upgrades. They're named that way in the Debug info. I don't know anything beyond that. And then there's the most obvious cut, which is the Light Temple. The biggest tell is the Light Trial. I think some interview said that the Light Temple puzzle elements eventually morphed into the Tower of the Gods in Wind Waker, but someone should double check that. Outside of some weird programming about the Light Medallion and boss spawns, I haven't found anything else about it.
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Jun 14, 2015 04:41
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Link getting Triforce upgrades makes complete sense to me. When I was a kid I always looked at the triforce in the center of the ring of medallions and assumed it would get filled in as well.
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Jun 14, 2015 05:07
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Fun fact: Master Quest actually figured out a way to use the Child/Adult Link fuckery for actual puzzle solving, but only just a little. Spoiled on the off-chance you want to play the game and have the means to do so, but haven't yet, because the fun of Master Quest is seeing a dickish romhack made by developers. There is a megaton hammer switch in child Link's portion of the desert temple. To access it, you need to do a portion of the dungeon as child Link, including moving Time Blocks around, to get a key, so that you can go back as Adult Link with that key, hit the Megaton switch...and go BACK as a child again to get the Gauntlets as the switch mysteriously remains activated after going 'back' in time again. It's the most profoundly rom-hackish thing and I both loved and hated it once I figured it out again while replaying the game, and it actually made my roommate choke on their drink and yell 'THAT'S BULLSHIT'. Amusingly, because of this sort of dickery, I think you actually get to see the past/future correspondence of the Song of Time blocks here and in one or two other spots, but since you can pretty much always call or remove them from either timeline I don't think it's ever necessary to solve a puzzle.
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Jun 14, 2015 05:13
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On the subject of Master Quest, is there any chance of bonus videos to glitch the hell out of the Master Quest dungeons?
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Jun 14, 2015 07:28
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That's iffy for a number of reasons. It would be hard for me to decide what exactly to show off - if a lot of the dungeon can be skipped in regular oot, it can probably be skipped the same way in master quest so there isn't much new to go over there. For example, you can skip straight to the end of forest and water temple in pretty much the exact same ways. If you want to see all of the actual differences, suddenly that's way too much for a bonus video. I think it might also be less meaningful since a big difference in dungeons is gold skulltula layout, and I haven't really shown off any of the standard locations. If you could narrow down what you'd want to see maybe I could give it more thought. The other issue is that I'm also far less familiar with Master Quest so whatever I do will probably just be me working off of a run someone else did. I can even name the specific run! ZFG did a run that was routed to specifically show off all the differences in master quest. I've thus far hesitated to link to any other runs or videos of glitches, because it hits a bit on something I don't know exactly how to handle: pretty much every single 'trick' I've done is something someone else came up with (and I hope I haven't given the impression otherwise), so if I were to link tricks that I used then it would be a pretty big list! But in this case there's one handy video where all the different master quest content can be found. If you're really itching to see Master Quest content then check that one out. That's not to say I can't also do a video but I doubt I'd be able to add anything over that one video, especially since ZFG is probably the best OoT player around. I don't know though, like I said if you had a more specific idea then maybe I can consider it. This definitely made me think of how to give credit to all the help I've gotten for this LP though, even if a lot of it was help through random youtube videos. I think once the LP is over I'll make a playlist of all the videos I used as reference and maybe talk about them a bit, does that sound like something that would be interesting? Or is the LP fine on it's own?
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Jun 14, 2015 12:05
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DoctorKill posted:I think once the LP is over I'll make a playlist of all the videos I used as reference and maybe talk about them a bit, does that sound like something that would be interesting? Or is the LP fine on it's own? I think you could say both are true. It's not like the LP needs it, but that suggestion certainly doesn't take anything away from the LP - rather the opposite. A few words about the routing process and such would be interesting too.
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Jun 14, 2015 13:25
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Maybe it's because I've never played the game, but I don't understand what Suspicious Dish says is going on with the time blocks. Are they programmed to stay in their spot when going from child to adult or back, even if you move them? Or something like that? Oh well that's actually pretty cool then. But I could see how it would have been difficult implementing that in a good way in an N64 3D title. VVV Markovnikov fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Jun 14, 2015 |
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Jun 14, 2015 13:34
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These blocks never change location. The way the game used them, they had two states: visible and invisible, and playing the Song of Time toggled them between those two states What I'm saying is that those blocks in fact aren't invisible: when they're invisible, they're actually in the other timeline from Link. So if they're invisible as adult, they're instead visible in the child timeline. So, really, in game canon, these blocks are either in the child or adult timeline, and playing the Song of Time near them transports them from/to the other timeline.
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Jun 14, 2015 13:46
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I've heard a "Chaos Mode" LP get namedropped a few times in these videos but I'm not familiar with what that is, beyond the obvious inference that it's a super-glitchy cheat-filled run. Was it an LP on here? If not where can I find it?
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Jun 15, 2015 01:52
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I did it alongside Faerie Fortune's Blind Ocarina run. It was...quite an experience, to say the least.
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Jun 15, 2015 02:26
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So the fire temple got a little bit upstaged by spirit temple stuff, I probably should have waited a little bit before bringing up spirit temple. So I'm gonna relink so I can talk about it a little more, since it has such a cool glitch. For a long time beating the fire temple as child was considered impossible, but thanks to "Child BA" we can use the hammer as child. We do this using a variable called TempB, which has actually been a part of a few glitches up until now. This value is used to store your B button value whenever it changes naturally in the game, usually for minigames like bombchu bowling or getting on a horse, which makes your B button a bow. Under certain conditions it then reads TempB and then restores that value back onto your B button. In this case we used dying with a non sword item on B. This even happened in earlier video. TempB defaults to a value of 0, and if you die with a bottle on B, it restores that value on your B button, and item number 0 is deku sticks. This is also how I became swordless as an adult. Going to the fishing pond stores your sword into TempB, and if you leave with the rod and pause, it restores the TempB variable onto B. However, if you are in water or are climbing on something, TempB actually becomes value 255, which is a blank B button. If you enter water, then leave the water, TempB would go to 0, and pausing would have put a stick on B. That is why I had to avoid entering water or climbing any surfaces when I was doing the trick, it would have reset the TempB value I stored, the value of Megaton Hammer, to 0, ruining the trick. Equipping a sword or getting bottle on B would have also made TempB 0, so I couldn't get a non-sword item on B in that manner. The only thing that works is the cutscene in which Ganon hits your sword away, which makes your B button blank but still preserves the value of TempB, which then gets put on B when I die. However there is one last catch, at least for version 1.2: whenever you die in Ganon's Tower, it forces the Master Sword onto B. This was a fix to a glitch in version 1.0 that let save after losing your sword, and stay swordless if you reloaded your file. But all I had to do was leave the fight and die somewhere else. It's a really neat glitch that only works because TempB does not change when you go through time, unlike many other things. Unfortunately, because it necessitated wrong warping into Ganon's Castle, I can only do it once. There is no other way for child link to get into Ganon's Castle so you can only ever get one item on B as child in a particular file (although there is a trick to get mini game items on B as child). The hammer by far has the most utility for this LP though so it worked out pretty well.
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Jun 16, 2015 00:00
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It's a drat shame you could only use it for such a short time.
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Jun 16, 2015 00:14
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It's time to solve a fish's riddle! What the actual riddle is is part of the riddle. In this episode me and Corn in the Bible go into Jabu Jabu and fix his guts, and then do more stuff because that doesn't actually take much time. Jabu Jabu J'accuse!I'm always surprised at just how small Jabu Jabu is, and am confounded at how I used to get lost in it. And it seems so much smaller as adult. In the next episode we'll be taking on the last dungeon, the Spirit Temple, and I'll be finishing it up as adult like most people wanted. And after that is... The Last Episode! We're pretty close to the end, I hope everyone is appropriately dismayed.
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Jun 17, 2015 22:41
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So, you said the Jabu Jabu loading zone is still there because adult and child Link use the same map, and loading zones can't be removed. Is this also true for Ganon's Castle/Hyrule Castle? And what about the Castle Town which has shops and minigames as a child, but nothing much as an adult?
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Jun 18, 2015 00:26
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So in Castle Town all the loading zones for the shops are still there, they are just blocked off by walls, and there is no known way around them. Your c buttons are disables so you can't really do any tricks. Hyrule and Ganon's castle are a weird situation, and I don't entirely know how their loading zones work so I couldn't say. For instance, if you are in Ganon's castle as child, and leave through the front entrance, you end up outside of the crawlspace to Zelda. So I don't know if that means it's the same loading zone for both or something. I guess I can try to find out.
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Jun 18, 2015 01:25
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Back when you went and all but killed Ganon before glitching your way out of the battle, what would happen if you were to go back to Ganon's Tower the proper way? Would the flags be all hosed up or would they be reset or what?
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Jun 18, 2015 01:36
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You're gonna have to specify what you mean by 'flags.' But if you're asking what happens if you go back to the tower from tower collapse? Well.. you can't! The tower is collapsed. If you save and reset the game puts you back before the collapse, in the inner tower, and it's as if you hadn't ever beat Ganondorf. This happens even if you had beaten him already, he's just always a boss you can fight. Since I had warped in there, all the enemies like the dinalfos and knuckles would also be there like normal, since I never beat them or anything. The Trials barrier is also still there, that only ever gets removed by doing the trials, it doesn't go away if you beat Ganondorf or anything like that.
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Jun 18, 2015 01:51
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DoctorKill posted:So in Castle Town all the loading zones for the shops are still there, they are just blocked off by walls, and there is no known way around them. Your c buttons are disables so you can't really do any tricks. Hyrule and Ganon's castle are a weird situation, and I don't entirely know how their loading zones work so I couldn't say. For instance, if you are in Ganon's castle as child, and leave through the front entrance, you end up outside of the crawlspace to Zelda. So I don't know if that means it's the same loading zone for both or something. I guess I can try to find out. Uh, this goes against how I understand the game. There are three separate scenes for Market (and Market Entrance / Outside Temple of Time): child day, child night, and adult. (and the Back Alley scene has day/night variants as well). These are the only scenes with "variants". Kakariko Village, Hyrule Field just have different scene setups, but the collision mesh is the same, so exits are still there. The exit warps from Hyrule Castle, Hyrule Field and Temple of Time have special logic to transport to you to the correct scene.
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Jun 18, 2015 04:07
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Then I am wrong, no one listen to me, about ocarina of time or anything.
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Jun 18, 2015 04:54
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Suspicious Dish posted:Uh, this goes against how I understand the game. There are three separate scenes for Market (and Market Entrance / Outside Temple of Time): child day, child night, and adult. (and the Back Alley scene has day/night variants as well). It's fun to note that those scenes are weird anyway because (as far as I know) they're the only place in the game where it uses prerendered backgrounds. It's why the camera is fixed for those areas.
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Jun 18, 2015 06:22
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Xenoveritas posted:It's fun to note that those scenes are weird anyway because (as far as I know) they're the only place in the game where it uses prerendered backgrounds. It's why the camera is fixed for those areas. link's house too. it's kinda funny if you play this on emulator and force it to render in widescreen because the entries and exits don't align with the pre rendered images anymore
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Jun 18, 2015 06:28
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Suspicious Dish posted:Uh, this goes against how I understand the game. There are three separate scenes for Market (and Market Entrance / Outside Temple of Time): child day, child night, and adult. (and the Back Alley scene has day/night variants as well). Didn't Ocarina of Time use the Mario 64 engine? In Mario 64 you have 15 courses, but each course has 7 stars, and depending on which star you select, some different elements can be moved around/available, although the basic environment remains the same. So maybe it's a variant on that system. The modeled environments can't change (and those would include loading zones since those are just invisible boxes) but various objects and scripts can be different. This allows them to "double up" on areas without having to actually store two really similar environments on the cart, which would be major for an N64 game.
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Jun 18, 2015 06:47
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Xenoveritas posted:It's fun to note that those scenes are weird anyway because (as far as I know) they're the only place in the game where it uses prerendered backgrounds. It's why the camera is fixed for those areas. Most house / shop interiors use prerendered textures. Trasson posted:Didn't Ocarina of Time use the Mario 64 engine? I have no idea. I imagine the code was similar, but I don't know if the base engine structure is the same. I tried to Google for engine internals, but all I found was http://www.gotoquiz.com/sm64_modding_knowledge I only scored 50%. I'm sorry.
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Jun 18, 2015 07:27
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quote:NP: Will you be making other games using the Zelda engine? As for the Odd Mushroom oddity, my headcanon is that either a) the item value that the Mushroom currently occupies used to belong to something completely different (and probably scrapped) and the chest is a remnant of that, or b) they simply put some item there at random as a placeholder. Either way, they just forgot it there when finetuning the child version of the map was no longer relevant. It doesn't seem likely that they ever had any plans for the Mushroom in particular to be there.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:14
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So I spoke to DoctorKill a little while ago about making a video showing some of the glitches that were fixed in the later versions of the game, 1.2 in particular. I thought it might be cool to show of a Ganonless speedrun as it is not a very well known run, not very many are playing it, but it's still a pretty fun and short route that relies heavily on glitch abuse to get to the end of the game. So here is part one of two in: Ocarina of time is a game about a boy who just wants to party with Paul.Power helping me with commentary. If you are only interested in the exclusive glitch in this part of the run you can skip to 07:30 and I'll show of a thing called blank A it's kind of neat. The second part is recorded but I need to get some commentary on it. Fredrik1 fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 23:20
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The trick that happens in the well, Blank A, that's the trick I regret not having the most on 1.2 / VC. It's so good! I don't like vine clipping for bombchus. I also couldn't really show it off in this LP even if I wanted, since you need a stick for that and I needed to get my first stick in the well.
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Jun 19, 2015 05:53
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Here's something I've been working on over the past few days, to mirror my Gamecube model viewer. I've been giving Doc here some preview shots, but now you can play around with it! http://magcius.github.io/zelview.js/zelview.html At some point I'll add the actor / collision models, but hopefully this is good enough for now. I don't display JPEG backgrounds yet (so any of the prerendered things don't work yet), and there are some issues where some textures don't get decoded properly.
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Jun 19, 2015 17:17
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There also seems to be a minor issue with the Z-order of some rooms.
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Jun 19, 2015 17:35
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Nifty! A control list might be nice though. I found WASD for XY adjustment, and B for return to origin. Are there any others?
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Jun 19, 2015 17:35
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Admiral H. Curtiss posted:There also seems to be a minor issue with the Z-order of some rooms. Some of the drawing commands turn off Z-depth. It normally works fine, since the engine only ever displays one room at a time. You can see the same effect with some of the water planes in the Deku Tree. There's nothing I can do, the game data is just "broken" like that. CrazySalamander posted:Nifty! A control list might be nice though. I found WASD for XY adjustment, and B for return to origin. Are there any others? Hold shift to go faster. I added some instructions to the page.
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Jun 19, 2015 17:48
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Suspicious Dish posted:Here's something I've been working on over the past few days, to mirror my Gamecube model viewer. I've been giving Doc here some preview shots, but now you can play around with it! This is really cool!
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Jun 20, 2015 08:46
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Catching up on the thread, and to go back to the Song of Time blocks for a second, the "transports through time, what's there in one timeline is not there in another" theory doesn't line up with what I saw in the Fire Temple. In Room 3 in the temple (big lava room, rope bridge, etc.), on the left side from where you enter, there are two doors; one at ground level and one above you. As an adult, you have to play the Song of Time to make a block spawn, cutting off the entrance to the lower room and giving you access to the upper room. It's not there initially when you go there as an adult, so should that not mean that it's there as a child? And unless I'm really tired from E3 week, I don't remember seeing Kill play the song in that video.
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Jun 21, 2015 09:54
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No you're right, I actually totally overlooked that block. There is also a block in the spirit temple that is not the opposite. But most other ones are: in the forest, water, and shadow temple they are in the opposite state, and so is the one in Dampe's grave. I don't know what's up with the inconsistency.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:25
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It's time for a new episode! This time Fredrik1 is joining me. He was feeling a bit under the weather, but that's ok, I made sure to tuck him in tightly and feed him some chicken soup, as I told him grand stories about princesses who saved knights from dragons and princesses who played Legend of Zelda and glitched through the Spirit Temple. ConSpiritcyThe more interesting tricks in the Spirit Temple are done as adult, so it's probably a good thing I finished it up as adult. Maybe its because the spirit temple is the only dungeon that was specifically designed around being both child and adult in it, but there isn't anything too out there to do as a child, unlike most other adult dungeons. Either way, we got through it, and have finished up all the dungeons! That means the next episode will be Ganon's Castle, and it will be the LAST EPISODE OF THIS AND ALL OTHER LPS. Also I haven't released any bonus episodes recently, so sorry about that. I'll definitely have one more before the last episode but it will probably have a lot of unrelated tricks all mixed together or something, we'll see. We're in the final stretch though, the curtains are dropping on this and life, make sure you all tell your loved ones you love them or never actually loved them because its endgame time baby and all your bones will turn to ash.
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Jun 23, 2015 22:21
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Somebody needs to gif that hand-drawn Fire Medallion, make it an avatar, and give it to you as your badge of honor for this crazy loving let's play.
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Jun 23, 2015 23:29
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