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So after playing only Geiger for 2 days, i branched out and played grave (solid and fun), degrey (simple and cool but not my cup of tea), Valerie (I don't think the way I want to play her is the way she's supposed to be played) and Lumiose. Holy hell, Lum is weird and complicated and awesome. Planning and pulling off a flourish is so interesting and cool. But... The character has so much weird stuff going on! His throws don't knock down, but you can boost them! He can do all sorts of weird combos because he has a long string of normals and an amazing linker on his jack. He's just way too fun.
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May 15, 2015 07:48
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 07:00 |
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I've been playing a lot of him lately so I guess I feel that I'm good enough for a small write up (I'm not good enough) Ball-Buster-Beta: Ranged rear end in a top hat  BBB is basically Dhalsim and features that one feature in Yomi that you can't understand why it wasn't introduced before: range! You would think that some of the other character's attack are ranged (Grave's J, which is basically an hadouken, for example), except gently caress you, only BBB gets ranged attacks (and Grave's J is actually a pretty loving bad thing to throw out when you are at range for reasons I'll explain later). So what does ranged do and how do you actually get range? Well, look at BBB's 2 normal below:  Do you see the little crosshair symbol on the card? No, not the one over the damage splotch, the one on the status bar. Well, that tells you that this particular move sets range, but only if you use it as a combat reveal (comboing/dodging into it doesn't count). The problem is that only you normal 2, 3, 4 and 6 set range, so the fastest possible speed that you can set range at with an attack is 2.8, which is loving slow and will be abused endlessly by other characters. The only other way to set ranged is the K, which is pretty much one of the most important cards in BBB's deck.  The problem with K is that it is a very slow throw and you don't usually want to play it raw anyway, because it is the only throw that ANYONE can use at range. Along with disallowing throws, ranged also allows BBB to take back his first face card that he plays in a turn (either to end a combo or on combat reveal), sets all his normals to speed 1.0 and prevents all damage if BBB gets hit, although this resets the fight back to close range. If both players block, this also resets range, which is why BBB doesn't usually block and also why Grave's J is so bad at range. So the basic plan for BBB at range is to just play his normals, dodges (since they can't be thrown, they are 100% safe) and sprinkle his K in there to stop his opponent dodging/blocking all the time. Don't have a K in your hand when you go at range? Well, gently caress you, there's no way to prevent your opponent from blocking until you run out of normals (taser rates helpfully points out that Q, which is in itself a fantastic card, can also be used if your opponent dodges as lot, but still suffers against dodges). BBB doesn't do a whole lot of damage and his usual plan might be to stay at range and just slowly kill the enemy, but it's actually more important for him to have a good close range game. You get two special abilities on normals: robo headbutt which allows you to play a whole new combo if you win the reveal and overdrive, which gives you more damage on face cards and gives them special abilities. With it, you can do a hilarious 46 damage combo for only 8 cards played! It also allows you to dodge into a K to set range, which is kind of a dick move. You can also use it to bluff a AA + A + A for 35 damage, since AA is your fastest attack at 0.4. Overall BBB is not an easy character to play and has a lot of weaknesses (he gets shut down if he runs out of dodges, he is card reliant, he can get rushed down really easily), but I find it extremely fun to play just because you can be an rear end in a top hat and keep someone at range all day and slowly chipping them away, meaning that the pain keeps going for a long time. Tekopo fucked around with this message at 14:36 on May 15, 2015 |
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May 15, 2015 08:24
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Hey OP, quick note: The guy who wrote the Geiger summary messed up one of the last lines. "Now that your opponent is at your mercy, you can drop a Temporal Distortion, turning your Flash Gears from 'really good' into 'absurd'," should say Time Spirals instead of Flash Gears. It's fixed in his post, but you pasted the old version.
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May 15, 2015 13:57
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inthesto posted:Hey OP, quick note: The guy who wrote the Geiger summary messed up one of the last lines. "Now that your opponent is at your mercy, you can drop a Temporal Distortion, turning your Flash Gears from 'really good' into 'absurd'," should say Time Spirals instead of Flash Gears. It's fixed in his post, but you pasted the old version. Just play with enforced rules disabled and link your Flash Gears. It's fine, only you and I will know. 
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May 15, 2015 14:24
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Tekopo posted:Don't have a K in your hand when you go at range? Well, gently caress you, there's no way to prevent your opponent from blocking until you run out of normals. This isn't quite true, since his long range Q does 13 damage on hit or block. He still wants a K though, to beat evades and set up 50/50s with Q. Besides that though, solid write-up.
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May 15, 2015 14:28
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Yeah, I always forget about the Q option, and you can overdrive it for 16 damage and to prevent the opponent from drawing cards, although I feel overdrive is better used at close range since the mix-up with it is much better there. Junkshot is also relatively slow (relative to your normals that is) at 2.2 which can mean that your opponent has more options in regards to attacks they can use to beat it.
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May 15, 2015 14:33
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Tekopo posted:Yeah, I always forget about the Q option, and you can overdrive it for 16 damage and to prevent the opponent from drawing cards, although I feel overdrive is better used at close range since the mix-up with it is much better there. Junkshot is also relatively slow (relative to your normals that is) at 2.2 which can mean that your opponent has more options in regards to attacks they can use to beat it. yea but theoretically your normals should scare them off those options
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May 15, 2015 14:56
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burger time posted:yea but theoretically your normals should scare them off those options
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May 15, 2015 14:57
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also I was rooting for you burger time but your lum failed you
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May 15, 2015 14:59
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Always use junkshot because it's loving named junkshot
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May 15, 2015 16:07
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May 15, 2015 17:13
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Today in "Fraudulent wins I didn't deserve": I spent the entire game on my back, getting read like a book without any way of option selecting my way out.  One good guess lead to a third of Persephone's life. Somebody remind me why Gwen gets to have 85 HP again?  Pers gambles on me not having heal in hand. Safe gamble, can't blame the player for deciding to do that.  I've been dodging a lot all game, so Pers is thinking to disrespect me by blowing through my defensive option. 31 damage and that puts Persephone into the danger zone. Why couldn't I have done this way earlier?  Okay, so it wasn't an OTK, but I still love being able to yank out a win in two or three moves. Gwen is fun, shame I have no idea how to play aggro characters and am vulnerable to getting mixed up like hell.
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May 16, 2015 00:27
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Emergent Gameplay story from Yomi: poster Control Volume beat the poo poo out of me with Rook and I had to make myself feel better by Hexing someone to death with Argy. A game with a narrative!
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May 16, 2015 00:54
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Here's my salty yomi story. Playing Lum against a Val, I hit blackjack and flip joker for 21, and get the joker in hand. A few turns later. I get hit. I'm at like 15 life. Opponent knows I have joker in hand, so I try to be sneaky and play a 4 facedown instead. Opponent combos anyway and I die. It turns out he didn't realize blackjack put the cards in my hand, and thought I couldn't possibly have a joker, and I was hoisted by my own petard, and my opponents lack of knowledge.
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May 16, 2015 01:00
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Chomp8645 posted:Emergent Gameplay story from Yomi: poster Control Volume beat the poo poo out of me with Rook and I had to make myself feel better by Hexing someone to death with Argy. i beat you up so hard you played a good character the system works
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May 16, 2015 01:13
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Gwen vs Grave. Grave won combat all of twice, one of which was a throw. Naturally, the other was dodge into his 45 damage aces.  Still won on the last round with two goons heckling me. 
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May 16, 2015 01:17
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Control Volume posted:i beat you up so hard you played a good character 
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May 16, 2015 01:34
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Also I just played as Valeria again and completely wrekt a Rook. Feels good man.
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May 16, 2015 02:02
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I just realized that the web client is actually far better for browsing games than the Steam version
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May 16, 2015 02:17
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Is there any bug report function anywhere? I was playing Persephone against DeGrey, and somehow wound up with his 4 in my hand--although I'm pretty sure it was still functioning as mine.
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May 17, 2015 07:23
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Gwen is a ton of fun. Shame her aces are kind of crap, and she doesn't get much off a dodge but she can always yank a combo out of her rear end.
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May 17, 2015 11:18
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I want to diversify slightly from Grave/BBB but not really sure who to go for. Menelken (or w/e his name is) looks interesting but doesn't seem to allow much room for making mistakes. I'm interested in trying out Vendetta, can anyone give a few pointers concerning him?
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May 17, 2015 11:31
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Tekopo posted:I want to diversify slightly from Grave/BBB but not really sure who to go for. Menelken (or w/e his name is) looks interesting but doesn't seem to allow much room for making mistakes. I'm interested in trying out Vendetta, can anyone give a few pointers concerning him? Vendetta is a giant scum-sucking rear end in a top hat. His most important card by far is his king, because if you can score a knockdown, you have a potential loop in hand that's really hard to get out of (doubly-so if you have a 7 in hand to follow up diving pincer strike). He has a lot of dodges, so be liberal with them because there's a good chance you'll have leftover dodges to fuel Acrobatics when you need it. Ironically, Q and A aren't that great, and you're looking to J and K for a lot of your damage. I dunno how he's supposed to maintain cards after burning it all on dodges and J, though. e: basically you want to do this inthesto fucked around with this message at 12:04 on May 17, 2015 |
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May 17, 2015 11:47
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Just gave it a try against the AI and holy poo poo it is easy for him to burn through his hand. I guess he can get back normals but still.
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May 17, 2015 12:10
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Played my first Vendetta match against a BBB, which I beat easily. Sorry BBB player, I know all the tricks 
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May 17, 2015 12:27
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Oh yeah, can somebody add me to the Steam group? Should be able to find me as Mavis Beacon Zombie Slayer or by my forums name
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May 17, 2015 12:39
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Accept my friend invite and I'll invite you to the group. That feel when you acrobatics your way out of a raw Zane's Maximum Anarchy at 48 life...
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May 17, 2015 14:03
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Tekopo posted:Accept my friend invite and I'll invite you to the group. Acrobatics and the throw loop are what keep Vendetta, a rushdown guy who can't get extra draws, in the game. Other rushdown types have ways to draw faster, but Vendetta just gets his attacks back when blocked.
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May 17, 2015 14:20
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TIL that in the Jaina vs Vendetta matchup, Jaina isn't allowed to attack and Vendetta isn't allowed to dodge
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May 17, 2015 14:52
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Since I played a lot of Jaina on the web client version, have some words about her: Jaina, Self-Detonating Bomb  Jaina is Ken Masters. Ken Masters has a history of being at least decent, if not a really good character. Unfortunately, we're not playing Street Fighter Alpha 2 or Street Fighter 3 Third Strike. We're not even playing Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo. We're playing Yomi, and there's no getting around this fact about Yomi Jaina: She. Is. Not. Good. Now, don't get too down on her. She has all the tools she needs to win. The problem is that her mechanics make her trip over her own feet while trying to get to victory. For an "aggro" character, Jaina's 2-10 have really bad speed - X.6, tied with Grave, DeGrey, and Geiger and only outspeeding Rook. (Expansion characters ameliorate this problem a bit, as she can also outspeed Troq, Quince, BBB, and Gloria.) For a character who wants to build a hand, Jaina is short on blocks due to one of them being tied to her best ability and another tied to a card that's better off discarded. For a character with a lot of dodges, she doesn't get much mileage out of them due to not being able to trigger her innate. For a character who wants to scare the opponent into blocking, her throws are slow. For a character with big combo potential, she has a hard time landing combos due to below-average speed and can fish out aces using Unstable Power anyway. All this, and her queens still aren't 0 speed and her aces aren't good enough to make up all this lost ground. Got all that? Good. Now let's start working on how to deal with these issues. Unstable Power is a really good ability. I mean, really loving good. Unfortunately, Jaina's only A/T card is her 6, which is slow on both sides (come on, 8.4 speed throw with no knockdown and no ability to return pumpers, really?), but you still get to option select really hard, and you get 2 aces for winning which you will almost always do. Smoldering Embers really messes with dodge-happy characters and is great for bluffing since you want it in the discard pile anyway (except against Rook, but that matchup is pretty hosed out of your favor anyway). With an early Smoldering Embers in your discard, you can start bullying characters who want to block with the insane chip damage on her J. If you can get two or more early Ks, you better believe those things are staying the hell in your hand because 13 - 27 damage for two combo points is crazy. Jaina is in the unique position of not having to choose between using an attack card or trading it in for an A; she can throw out the attack, see how it goes, and then return it to hand to trade in for an ace. For this reason, she should be getting aces far earlier than anyone else in the game. Finally, she has an extremely easy time shaping her hand, so when she finally does land a combo (all it takes is one throw read or a good use of Unstable Power), she can fetch aces with ease. Basically, Jaina needs to abuse the fact that she gets her good (but not great) aces faster than most characters, dodge into Red Dragon, and then use her high combo potential or Unstable Power to put them back in her hand. Between Smoldering Embers, Q/A having .2 speed and being recursive at <35 life, and J doing 5 or 7 block damage, Jaina actually has a reliable late game to finish off opponents on the verge of death. The problem is getting there in the first place, which generally requires superior match-up knowledge and reading than your opponent. And that's pretty much the hallmark of a bad character. In summary: Play safe but not passive early, don't panic when you're running short on throws and blocks, make up lost ground with Unstable Power and early aces, shape your hand into something nice, and then control your opponent to death
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May 17, 2015 16:59
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Oh and you know how Vendetta's game has a large component of dodge -> throw wall dive loop? Well, Jaina shits all over that if she has enough burning embers down. I've played a few game as Vendetta and he's pretty cool. Once you get someone knocked down you have the craziest mix-up imaginable, with the potential options being: - A 1.0 speed throw that knocks down and returns to your hand on hit. - A 1.0 speed attack which is a starter that returns to your hand on hit and can be followed up with a 7 to knock down again. - A dodge into the a knockdown that returns to your hand. poo poo is crazy. Managing to keep the guy down for 3-4 loops is legit amazing. Shame you have to burn dodges/7s to do it though.
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May 17, 2015 17:07
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Tekopo posted:Oh and you know how Vendetta's game has a large component of dodge -> throw wall dive loop? Well, Jaina shits all over that if she has enough burning embers down. 1v1 me bruh
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May 17, 2015 17:10
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Sure. We still need to do TS as well. Also, I'm the master of mix-up with Vendetta because I legit forget that post Acrobatics, you get a speed increase on attacks, so no one expects me to do attacks 
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May 17, 2015 17:11
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Tekopo posted:Sure. We still need to do TS as well. Also, I'm the master of mix-up with Vendetta because I legit forget that post Acrobatics, you get a speed increase on attacks, so no one expects me to do attacks room up, pw is lljk if anyone wants to spectate steam username is ANIME OF THE STATE
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May 17, 2015 17:13
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and the first match was a perfect lmao. gently caress vendetta
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May 17, 2015 17:18
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Fungah! posted:and the first match was a perfect lmao. gently caress vendetta
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May 17, 2015 17:45
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jesus that was a beating lmao
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May 17, 2015 18:12
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Milling out Gwen with Persephone is a wonderful feeling.
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May 17, 2015 19:19
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I threw away that last game so many times, but credit to Lord of Hats for engineering a double KO instead of outright winning instead
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May 17, 2015 19:19
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 07:00 |
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Alright I've played enough Rook matches and stomped enough people that I think I can make a writeup or something about him. First things first, here are your important cards:        Rook is mechanically and strategically very simple. He has no dodges, he likes throwing, and his blocks are better. He doesn't do the whole combo thing that much so most of his playstyle revolves around pummeling the opponent repeatedly with single, powerful attacks, or powering through the opponent's own attacks and dealing even more damage. Rock armor is the key to winning most of your battles, and you'll want to keep a big hand through pretty much the entire game. One thing to note: don't discard or trade the 3, 5, or 10 unless you really know what you're doing and know you don't want those cards. The 3 and 5 are the closest rook gets to dodges, and the 10 is the best starter you have for rock armor combos. Same goes for the face cards, though if you need to trade out face cards, the Q is the least valuable out of all of them. For strategy, in the early game, one of your priorities is building up a big hand in between tossing assholes to the ground, because Rook doesn't react too well to pressure when his hand size is low. He's effectively limited to blocking and throwing since his normal attacks are all horrible and he doesn't have enough cards to really make poking with J work. Getting knocked down is also huge since he's pretty vulnerable to mixups, while knocking them down in return doesn't mean poo poo if they attack on wakeup (they will always attack on wakeup). You need to be constantly aware of this as a Rook player, because good players can and will make every effort to keep you down before you even get started. Once you block and throw your way to a decently sized hand, though, Rook starts working his magic. Once you have a good rock armor combo in your hand (10-Q, 10-J-10, and 6-7-8 are the best), you can start power through a poke with something like a 10-Q combo for 24 damage. This is also when you can start doing things like poking with J, since that beats almost all normals and a pretty sizable amount of face cards, and a J-Q combo can deal 18 damage for only three cards, which is pretty drat good all things considered. Meanwhile, due to a combination of your defense mastery and the fact that most characters need to dump out a lot more cards to get the damage you're dealing, opponents quickly run out of steam against Rook and have a hard time building back up because Rook has a million loving throws and all of them are good and you can bet that when you're not straight up smashing through whatever piddly reversal attack they have for ridiculous damage, you're tossing them on their rear end. When they're down on cards, if you and your opponent are predicting each other about 50% of the time, you will very likely win on sheer damage and HP advantage alone, so do your best to keep them in this situation if you get them in it. Also your K is ridiculously good and isn't part of any overarching strategy so play it whenever you want 15 damage for nothing. e: forgot to include this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IDbTNd0CJc Control Volume fucked around with this message at 01:42 on May 18, 2015 |
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May 18, 2015 00:25
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