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Maybe I'm not explaining my position well. I don't think it's right or good that you can't just off-handedly mention "I'm a lady" or something and not get poo poo for it on 4chan. I just think that it's the closest you can get to real equal footing currently. Also, I'm not sure that non-anonymous discussion does much better at preventing a majority opinion from taking hold. While 4chan users are really naive in thinking that anoymity solves that problem when all it does is make dismissing a "wrong opinion" impersonal, it's a tricky proposition to prevent cliques, posses, and mobs from forming up anywhere.
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May 15, 2015 05:27
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SunAndSpring posted:Anyway, the place is more politically varied than you'd expect, much like how we're more politically varied than the "SJW-run Hellhole" stereotype that 4chan and some subreddits ascribe to SA. Sort of. If you collect people on /soc/ to talk to they are usually quite varied. /lgbt/ is like... unusually conservative for an LGBT board, but that isn't saying too much. The interest boards skew towards the demographic they represent. Anyone who thinks /pol/ and /r9k/ is mostly just jokes and irony is deluding themselves though. I know several /pol/ posters in both real life and as long-term internet acquaintances and those are absolutely their real views. Had a Swedish fascist (member of the SVP which just disbanded  , not the slightly less fascist Sweden Democrats), far-right Italians, Australians, and Greeks, and I know IRL an American with a completely crazy mixture of fascism and libertarianism as his philosophy. Most fun time with him I've had was trying to explain Nigel Farage's comment that Indians have more in common with Brits than Eastern Europeans do (he's always banging on about his Polish heritage). /r9k/ has some humorous self-awareness with their tendies meme and such, there is a sense that the misogynistic posts there are the product of frustration about not getting laid, but they have a lot of crossover.Calling SA a "SJW-run hellhole" is dumb mostly because there is no board that unironically supports tumblr-style social justice and any board other than DnD dislikes putting self-righteousness above comedy, even if it leans slightly left. However I think it's completely fair to say that SA leans left and DnD is far-left. Ed: SunAndSpring posted:can't just off-handedly mention "I'm a lady" What's interesting about this is that it creates a self-fulfilling prophecy in their minds. If you make a funny post as a woman on 4chan, everybody will assume you are a man. If you put something in the post to indicate you're a woman, suddenly it's "TYPICAL WOMAN ALWAYS HAS TO MENTION SHE'S A WOMAN." If you assume everyone's a man unless proven otherwise then in your mind the funny posts are all by men and the shitposts are usually by women. Really this is an issue with the internet in general but it's especially pronounced in places with complete anonymity. If there was actually some way to be "anonymous" all the time, IRL and on the internet- no point where suddenly I have to reveal myself as belonging to a social category to continue my relations with people-I would be fine with it. There wouldn't really be any point in identifying as a woman if that was a social reality, unless you wanted to become part of a sexualized caste; for all intents and purposes, you would be the same as anybody else who is anonymous. It's just not possible to continue that outside of such a space, and I would contend it actually makes social relations outside of the space worse because of the assumptions mentioned above. Weldon Pemberton fucked around with this message at 05:49 on May 15, 2015 |
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May 15, 2015 05:27
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SunAndSpring posted:Maybe I'm not explaining my position well. I don't think it's right or good that you can't just off-handedly mention "I'm a lady" or something and not get poo poo for it on 4chan. I just think that it's the closest you can get to real equal footing currently. Unless SunAndSpring is in fact your full legal name I don't really see how this board isn't really anonymous as well. Hell it's long standing knowledge here that many people have multiple accounts or share accounts with each other. To say nothing of how on a lot of other forums out there, while you can choose to register, guest posting is often allowed, or registration is mandatory but completely free so nothing stops people really having tons of accounts.
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May 15, 2015 05:31
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SunAndSpring posted:Maybe I'm not explaining my position well. I don't think it's right or good that you can't just off-handedly mention "I'm a lady" or something and not get poo poo for it on 4chan. I just think that it's the closest you can get to real equal footing currently. So the best that can currently be done, and currently is being done, is that if you let it slip you're a woman you'll get poo poo for it? I mean you did just call it "the closest you can get to real equal footing currently." Actually, there are actually many websites and discussion forums where you can mention your gender and not get attacked for it. If you're actually looking for places like that, and aren't in fact content to stay in "we're all white guys, attack anyone who's not"-land, then I'm sorry you haven't found better spaces.
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May 15, 2015 05:34
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To be honest, I'm beginning to think even the whole "equal footing" thing I was talking about doesn't really work. People are still jockeying for the attention and adulation you get for saying "right" opinions there, it's just usually tied to one thread than an entire posting history. Maybe I've just got an idealized concept of what I want anonymous posting to be.
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May 15, 2015 05:35
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SunAndSpring posted:To be honest, I'm beginning to think even the whole "equal footing" thing I was talking about doesn't really work. People are still jockeying for the attention and adulation you get for saying "right" opinions there, it's just usually tied to one thread than an entire posting history. Maybe I've just got an idealized concept of what I want anonymous posting to be. Most people who think it's a good idea do.
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May 15, 2015 05:36
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Nintendo Kid posted:Unless SunAndSpring is in fact your full legal name I don't really see how this board isn't really anonymous as well. Hell it's long standing knowledge here that many people have multiple accounts or share accounts with each other. i'd say sa is pseudononymous, in that ideally none of us post explicitly identifiable information but the paywall and general culture encourages or facilitates establishing a brand that may persist between accounts (you are an example of this) that allows for a general identification of other posters as individuals and their posting style, arguments, general attributes etc. simply having a fixed account allows for a post history, punishment history, and so on that you won't get in a truly anonymous board like a typical chan setup for example if you started talking about how trains are awful i would assume that you are being facetious for some purpose, this pseudononymity carries context that changes the way discussions are held
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May 15, 2015 05:37
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Phobophilia posted:gentlemen we cannot allow a posting gap No, really, who gives a poo poo?
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May 15, 2015 05:39
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SunAndSpring posted:To be honest, I'm beginning to think even the whole "equal footing" thing I was talking about doesn't really work. People are still jockeying for the attention and adulation you get for saying "right" opinions there, it's just usually tied to one thread than an entire posting history. Maybe I've just got an idealized concept of what I want anonymous posting to be. your equal footing concept kind of works if we are looking only at the sheer content of people's posts, but i don't think that sort of context-free reading is possible given that people will self select for certain kinds of discussion and content simply by choosing to browse one site or another for example i used to just browse imgur as a big random pics thread but i got annoyed by both useless content like "here's my new puppy!" and unpopular opinion bird that's just restating boring reactionary tripe about how minorities just need to get jobs. that kind of content is truly anonymous to me because i never cared at all who posted it or who was voting on it, but the content itself caused me to stop using the site for anything but free image hosting
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May 15, 2015 05:40
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SunAndSpring posted:To be honest, I'm beginning to think even the whole "equal footing" thing I was talking about doesn't really work. People are still jockeying for the attention and adulation you get for saying "right" opinions there, it's just usually tied to one thread than an entire posting history. Maybe I've just got an idealized concept of what I want anonymous posting to be. Yeah, you do. That's understandable I guess as it's hyped by a lot of people in a lot of places, especially if you spend a lot of time on 4chan, but I'm pretty sure you see how a place where letting your gender slip is an invitation to attack isn't a place of equality, right? And you're right, functionally a "hivemind" isn't really different than a swarm of pseudonymous posters in terms of dogpiling wrong opinions or trumpeting correct ones. Honestly I suggest you look for places related to whatever hobbies you like that are explicitly welcoming of women and minorities, try posting there and see if you notice a difference. The reason some sites have to label themselves like that isn't to scare off men or score political points, it's to make it clear people don't have to walk on eggshells while implicitly acting like white guys. That promotes more equal footing than the "don't take off the white guy (guy fawkes) mask or you'll get dogpiled" model. Though of course that requires some level of moderation and poster accountability. Sharkie fucked around with this message at 05:48 on May 15, 2015 |
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May 15, 2015 05:45
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SunAndSpring posted:To be honest, I'm beginning to think even the whole "equal footing" thing I was talking about doesn't really work. People are still jockeying for the attention and adulation you get for saying "right" opinions there, it's just usually tied to one thread than an entire posting history. Maybe I've just got an idealized concept of what I want anonymous posting to be. The thing is, it works but only in certain situations. Usually it's like, the very small minor chans where there's a few hundred actual posters at most. At 4chan's scale or even like 420chan's scale, it simply doesn't work anymore.
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May 15, 2015 05:59
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I think the reason 4chan is looked down upon on SA as it was literally created to be the exact opposite of SA in every way. The site itself is a reaction to the popularity of named account forums that were popular in the 2000's.
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May 15, 2015 06:01
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Venom Snake posted:I think the reason 4chan is looked down upon on SA as it was literally created to be the exact opposite of SA in every way. The site itself is a reaction to the popularity of named account forums that were popular in the 2000's. No, moot created it because he wanted an English language 2chan of his own to post about anime on. I realize you were like 7 at the time, but some of us were actually there with him when it started and frankly he wasn't even the first, he was just marginally more competent and picked a better domain name than a lot of others. Back in the day being able to easily host images right with a post, for free? That was a huge thing especially with image uploading sites being often unreliable and cumbersome.
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May 15, 2015 06:09
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Nintendo Kid posted:No, moot created it because he wanted an English language 2chan of his own to post about anime on. I realize you were like 7 at the time, but some of us were actually there with him when it started and frankly he wasn't even the first, he was just marginally more competent and picked a better domain name than a lot of others. Part of the appeal of 2chan was anonymity. And while I might not have been around at the time I know enough that name-account sites like SA were super popular, and also had a base of users who didn't like it. You can't really ignore the founding of 4chan without looking at the context on which it was made.
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May 15, 2015 06:13
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Venom Snake posted:I think the reason 4chan is looked down upon on SA as it was literally created to be the exact opposite of SA in every way. The site itself is a reaction to the popularity of named account forums that were popular in the 2000's. Personally I look down on places full of neo-nazis and misogynists but I can only speak for myself. And yes, yes, SA has lovely people on it but at least there's accountability and saying it's anywhere as bad as most chans is silly.
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May 15, 2015 06:15
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Venom Snake posted:Part of the appeal of 2chan was anonymity. And while I might not have been around at the time I know enough that name-account sites like SA were super popular, and also had a base of users who didn't like it. You can't really ignore the founding of 4chan without looking at the context on which it was made. Dog I was in the context of when it was made and only a year younger than Moot himself. You don't really grasp the context at all, pseudonymous standing forums that weren't usenet or usenet gateways were still practically brand new for most of the internet. Social networks barely existed, and even people who used them often couldn't say, take pictures to go with them because poo poo man, digital cameras were still kinda expensive and cumbersome. You're reading way too much into the anonymity thing from the context of a world where people have pictures of their whole lives online on some sites and complete anonymity on others. Being able to host your anime pictures right with your posts right there was more than half the draw of thing, seriously. The whole anonymous-as-identity thing took quite some time to really catch on.
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May 15, 2015 06:19
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Sharkie posted:Personally I look down on places full of neo-nazis and misogynists but I can only speak for myself. And yes, yes, SA has lovely people on it but at least there's accountability and saying it's anywhere as bad as most chans is silly. It's not as bad here as we police those kinds of people out of the community, on 4chan they just don't give a poo poo. The reason 4chan is so harmful is because it could not give a single poo poo about anyone. You know that gamer terrorist episode from the Special Victims unit? /v/ loves it specifically because it gives /v/ attention and they couldn't care less about people attacking them, the circus and drama is what they desire, they don't care about the animals or people involved in making it happen.
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May 15, 2015 06:27
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NQlOfXyrUY
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May 15, 2015 06:29
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I feel like you could make a better place than reddit/4chan if you could limit the ability of small, dedicated groups to brigade/drive discussion in the direction they want. The reality is the existence of people like /pol/ posters, and the willingness of those members to project their misanthropic abrasiveness everywhere else, is what drives bald-faced racism to be socially acceptable on 4chan. And don't say 'it just ironic', it's not, ironic racism is possible to do but is distinguishable from actual racism to people with a brain, you're not fooling anyone.
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May 15, 2015 06:35
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Venom Snake posted:It's not as bad here as we police those kinds of people out of the community, on 4chan they just don't give a poo poo. The reason 4chan is so harmful is because it could not give a single poo poo about anyone. You know that gamer terrorist episode from the Special Victims unit? /v/ loves it specifically because it gives /v/ attention and they couldn't care less about people attacking them, the circus and drama is what they desire, they don't care about the animals or people involved in making it happen. Right, that's what I meant about accountability. rudatron posted:I feel like you could make a better place than reddit/4chan if you could limit the ability of small, dedicated groups to brigade/drive discussion in the direction they want. The reality is the existence of people like /pol/ posters, and the willingness of those members to project their misanthropic abrasiveness everywhere else, is what drives bald-faced racism to be socially acceptable on 4chan. And don't say 'it just ironic', it's not, ironic racism is possible to do but is distinguishable from actual racism to people with a brain, you're not fooling anyone.
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May 15, 2015 06:56
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It's strange that a number of people who never post in D&D are here to post in this thread purely as a coincidence after it was linked at the white supremacist stalker offsite
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May 15, 2015 06:58
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Someone who never posts in D&D posted:It's strange that a number of people who never post in D&D are here to post in this thread purely as a coincidence after it was linked at the white supremacist stalker offsite
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May 15, 2015 07:00
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I post in D&D fairly frequently.
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May 15, 2015 07:02
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Tezzor posted:It's strange that a number of people who never post in D&D are here to post in this thread purely as a coincidence after it was linked at the white supremacist stalker offsite kind of a post hoc ergo propter, due to crossover every chan or offsite was going to whine about this thread while posturing about how little they care and due to the subject matter a number of lurkers would be triggered into defensive poo poo and runs no matter what i mean the main stalker offsite has nothing better to do than obsess over what people post here in the name of lulz or whatever, of course they would make a thread about this thread that's like a given. i'd bet money someone will quote this post and talk about what a loser i am for caring, and me even saying that would trigger some other weird feedback loop of proving what a carefag i am for attempting to be meta about something so inconsequential, and so on boner confessor fucked around with this message at 07:20 on May 15, 2015 |
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May 15, 2015 07:16
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rudatron posted:I feel like you could make a better place than reddit/4chan if you could limit the ability of small, dedicated groups to brigade/drive discussion in the direction they want. The reality is the existence of people like /pol/ posters, and the willingness of those members to project their misanthropic abrasiveness everywhere else, is what drives bald-faced racism to be socially acceptable on 4chan. And don't say 'it just ironic', it's not, ironic racism is possible to do but is distinguishable from actual racism to people with a brain, you're not fooling anyone. Look at boards like AutoAdmit: once blood is in the water, everyone goes into a feeding frenzy, and a few people will take it way too far. Gossip or salacious stories don't need a small dedicated group except for the fact that a small dedicated group of people is probably really good at gauging possible reactions and knowing how to lay chum.
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May 15, 2015 07:19
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Nerd culture isn't about nerds or culture. Because we live in the age of irony, calling someone a casual enthusiast isn't possible. So we call them nerds. I read /tg/ and /pol/ and most of it is regurgitation and misinformation. They are reactionaries and don't understand the subjects of their fascination. They just want to belong to a larger group. Occasionally, someone that actually read Warhammer books or knows the rules to their table top games posts on /tg/ and you can actually learn from them. Mostly, 4chan consists of people half remembering what another idiot told them or reacting to outsiders. /pol/ doesn't understand politics and probably never studied Nazis or national socialism as much as they ironically praise it. Its funny to watch them repeat myths and watch it spiral into an alternative reality (i.e. DnD edition wars or the Mike Brown and Walter Scott shootings). It is all reactionaries and no different than Infowars or Glen Beck. I think GamerGate ruined something that should have been addressed which is most people want to identify as something but they don't learn about it. When people say "Girls aren't gamers", there is sexism in it however, there are many people (regardless of sex) who identify as gamers but only play 2-3 games tops. There are people who love the Marvel Universe movies and never read a comic. People that love Star Wars and never read the books. They aren't posers as much as in denial about their station as regular mundane media consumers. Calling people casual internet users sounds like their parents so they are nerds now to differentiate. I'm skeptical of nerd culture and fandoms because it seems like marketing teams have integrated sites like reddit and imgur into their promotion strategies. The definition of a nerd is someone who learns about something to the point of obsession. But they actually know something. Simply loving something is just being a fan. temple fucked around with this message at 07:32 on May 15, 2015 |
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May 15, 2015 07:29
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Tezzor posted:It's strange that a number of people who never post in D&D are here to post in this thread purely as a coincidence after it was linked at the white supremacist stalker offsite Are you referring to /pol/? It would not surprise me if GBS was crawling with /pol/acks.
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May 15, 2015 07:30
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Popular Thug Drink posted:kind of a post hoc ergo propter, due to crossover every chan or offsite was going to whine about this thread while posturing about how little they care and due to the subject matter a number of lurkers would be triggered into defensive poo poo and runs no matter what I think you've hit the mark here. For all their talk of being a free-thinking, original offshoot of ordinary society, the chans are quite predictable. Just reading that archive a few pages back made my eyes glaze over with boredom. it's all "faggots" this and "SJWs" that. Nothing coherent, just the digitilized infantile thrashings of manchildren who had their favorite toy insulted. Red and Black fucked around with this message at 08:01 on May 15, 2015 |
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May 15, 2015 07:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NQlOfXyrUY
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May 15, 2015 08:27
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I don't see what there's to discuss about "chan culture". It's just thinking you're above everybody else while posting memes and whining about everything.
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May 15, 2015 09:08
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Motto posted:I don't see what there's to discuss about "chan culture". It's just thinking you're above everybody else while posting memes and whining about everything. It's very important to establish that, in fact, we are the ones above them.
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May 15, 2015 09:19
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Freakazoid_ posted:It's very important to establish that, in fact, we are the ones above them. Yeah. Pretty much every online community is a circlejerk to some extent, and it gets even worse when discussion goes meta, or worse yet talks about other sites. Especially once you get to the point where people are spending copious amounts of time on sites they hate for the sole purpose of getting mad about them. Motto fucked around with this message at 09:26 on May 15, 2015 |
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May 15, 2015 09:23
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Motto posted:I don't see what there's to discuss about "chan culture". It's just thinking you're above everybody else while posting memes and whining about everything.
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May 15, 2015 09:24
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temple posted:Nerd culture isn't about nerds or culture. Because we live in the age of irony, calling someone a casual enthusiast isn't possible. So we call them nerds. I read /tg/ and /pol/ and most of it is regurgitation and misinformation. They are reactionaries and don't understand the subjects of their fascination. They just want to belong to a larger group. Occasionally, someone that actually read Warhammer books or knows the rules to their table top games posts on /tg/ and you can actually learn from them. Mostly, 4chan consists of people half remembering what another idiot told them or reacting to outsiders. /pol/ doesn't understand politics and probably never studied Nazis or national socialism as much as they ironically praise it. Its funny to watch them repeat myths and watch it spiral into an alternative reality (i.e. DnD edition wars or the Mike Brown and Walter Scott shootings). It is all reactionaries and no different than Infowars or Glen Beck. Maybe instead of writing a pathetic post like this one find something other than how much media you consume to center your identity around.
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May 15, 2015 09:26
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Motto posted:Yeah. Pretty much every online community is a circlejerk to some extent, and it gets even worse when discussion goes meta, or worse yet talks about other sites. Especially once you get to the point where people are spending copious amounts of time on sites they hate for the sole purpose of getting mad about them. If we've learned anything about humanity and the internet, it's never enough to tell people your opinion. You absolutely need to tell your opinion on a site that doesn't like those opinions. Something about using sites with like-minded people just doesn't really feel satisfying enough.
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May 15, 2015 09:35
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venting is fun especially when it's directed at certain people
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May 15, 2015 10:52
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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I came here to post this
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May 15, 2015 12:03
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temple posted:
What, functionally, is the difference between "mundane media consumers" and someone who delves more deeply into the medium in question? We're all "regular mundane media consumers," regardless of whether we're just watching Scandal or listening to Doctor Who audio dramas. All of it is "mundane media." What "should have been addressed" about this supposed menace? As bad as 8chan is, the offsite SA reject Nazi forum is a million times worse. GBS is also pretty bad these days.
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May 15, 2015 16:06
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The sky is falling. We must secure the intellectual purity of internet forums for future generations.
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May 15, 2015 16:09
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GBS is slowly devolving into a poo poo storm of 4chan like materiel.
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May 15, 2015 16:28
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