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Beef Turret
Jul 9, 2009

by Lowtax

gender illusionist posted:

i wish you'd been included in that lol

:iamafag:

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Gatekeeper
Aug 3, 2003

He was warrior and mystic, ogre and saint, the fox and the innocent, chivalrous, ruthless, less than a god, more than a man.

Beef Turret posted:

It's kinda insane that 12 million christians died in the soviet union because they lived in a state atheistic society that saw them as a cancer, and atheists keep saying that nobody ever died in the name of atheism.

but can't you be an atheist without caring about or trying to stamp out religious believers? the soviet union didn't kill christians just because they were an atheistic society, trying to reduce the entire soviet philosophy to "atheist" seems disingenuous i think.

GORDON
Jan 1, 2006

by Fluffdaddy
"I am currently unaffiliated."

hohhat
Sep 25, 2014

Gatekeeper posted:

but can't you be an atheist without caring about or trying to stamp out religious believers? the soviet union didn't kill christians just because they were an atheistic society, trying to reduce the entire soviet philosophy to "atheist" seems disingenuous i think.

This is not the argument you want to make.

the fart question
Mar 21, 2007

College Slice
hail satan

Gatekeeper
Aug 3, 2003

He was warrior and mystic, ogre and saint, the fox and the innocent, chivalrous, ruthless, less than a god, more than a man.

Agag posted:

This is not the argument you want to make.

please elaborate, i'm a little piss baby and everything must be patiently explained to my blind cave fish of a brain

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Beef Turret posted:

It's kinda insane that 12 million christians died in the soviet union because they lived in a state atheistic society that saw them as a cancer, and atheists keep saying that nobody ever died in the name of atheism.

because that's an extremely warped lens you're looking through lol


Gatekeeper posted:

the soviet union didn't kill christians just because they were an atheistic society, trying to reduce the entire soviet philosophy to "atheist" seems disingenuous i think.

ding ding ding we have a winner

now watch as goons trot some bullshit talking points out to convince you of how truly important atheism was to Stalin

basically christians and the church were super persecuted early in USSR history because Lenin and the Bosheviks considered organized religion to be a blight and an apparatus of control over the proletariat, not because they were atheists.

Then after WW2 Stalin revived the Orthodox Church in Russia (after Hitler tried to culture flip religious types) and presented Russia as the Defender of the Faith in an effort to gain popular support.

Then depending on who was in power and which clergy were talking poo poo people still went to prison camps and poo poo, yeah. Khrushchev forced a lot of churches to close (which were opened again in the first place because of Stalin).

The more vocal with the proselytizing you were the less the government liked you, which explains the hate for the foreign protestants in the USSR.

But it was always an issue of state control, whether you were Lenin and thought religion was enslavement or whether you were Stalin just doing whatever the gently caress for popularity or whether you were Khrushchev and just didn't want people badmouthing your administration. It wasn't because of atheism itself or any ideal of promoting it. The USSR said atheism was the scientific truth but they didn't crusade about it.

Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 23:01 on May 26, 2015

hohhat
Sep 25, 2014

Gatekeeper posted:

please elaborate, i'm a little piss baby and everything must be patiently explained to my blind cave fish of a brain

Instead of dismissing the mass-murder committed by atheists like Stalin and Mao as somehow not "really" related to atheism, simply argue that atheism isn't inherently murderous, and most atheists don't kill anybody, and the crimes of whatever murderous atheists have more to do with the nature of totalitarianism than their religious views.

Of course this means abandoning the similar argument levied against theism, which is why more strident atheists are reluctant to adopt it.

City of Tampa
May 6, 2007

by zen death robot
atheists interface with religion in the exact same way that 99% of self-proclaimed religious people do; they pick and choose what to believe and what moral structure feels right to them and then just call it whatever they think will benefit them the most.

Gatekeeper
Aug 3, 2003

He was warrior and mystic, ogre and saint, the fox and the innocent, chivalrous, ruthless, less than a god, more than a man.

Agag posted:

Instead of dismissing the mass-murder committed by atheists like Stalin and Mao as somehow not "really" related to atheism, simply argue that atheism isn't inherently murderous, and most atheists don't kill anybody, and the crimes of whatever murderous atheists have more to do with the nature of totalitarianism than their religious views.

Of course this means abandoning the similar argument levied against theism, which is why more strident atheists are reluctant to adopt it.

i think that is what i was aiming for, thanks for giving me the words to express it properly

hohhat
Sep 25, 2014

Gatekeeper posted:

i think that is what i was aiming for, thanks for giving me the words to express it properly

All things are possible through Christ.

basement jihadist
Oct 3, 2002

I lift my tail and scAre and run into the underbrush

Gatekeeper
Aug 3, 2003

He was warrior and mystic, ogre and saint, the fox and the innocent, chivalrous, ruthless, less than a god, more than a man.

Agag posted:

All things are possible through Christ.

pbuh

Justin Tyme
Feb 22, 2011


I just say I am a non-practicing non-denominational Christian and then it is literally never brought up again or never an issue. People who make a big deal out of being nonbelievers (currently anyway) always seem like the same kind of people who would make a point to not at least respectfully bow their heads during funeral/wedding prayers, as if anyone gives a poo poo about their contrarian rear end. Maybe in like 20-30 years being overtly atheist won't be quite as socially awkward, but at least now it's far easier to just be disarmingly noncommittal.

mlady, I would love to have partaken in the sexing last night, if only you could have accepted my atheist beliefs instead of saying that was a dealbreaker!

RaceBannon
Apr 3, 2010
my wife is Catholic but i think she finds the fact that I'm going to burn in hell a turn on. like the bad boy thing, y know

DreadLlama
Jul 15, 2005
Not just for breakfast anymore
If you're Jodie Foster and you've just fallen through the giant plot device that they were building secretly building in Japan and are confronted with the fact that you have zero evidence to support that your awesome acid trip was "totally real" and you decide to shut up about it and then the movie stops - what religion is that?

hohhat
Sep 25, 2014

DreadLlama posted:

If you're Jodie Foster and you've just fallen through the giant plot device that they were building secretly building in Japan and are confronted with the fact that you have zero evidence to support that your awesome acid trip was "totally real" and you decide to shut up about it and then the movie stops - what religion is that?

Worship that Matty McConaughey dick.

frenton
Aug 15, 2005

devil soup
That sounds really white so Christian or mormon I believe.

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS
It actually depends on whose asking, opie. I will gladly downplay my faith amongst certain peeps who have had really bad experiences with religion, whereas those who don't care or are even interested is another story. When i wanna be a poo poo about it, I turn to the internet.

Basically, this is place to go when you feel the need to razz fools, not the dinner table

Beef Turret
Jul 9, 2009

by Lowtax
Moridin920 if he had been a christian instead of atheist

TacticalUrbanHomo
Aug 17, 2011

by Lowtax

Beef Turret posted:

Moridin920 if he had been a christian instead of atheist


she's right

Beef Turret
Jul 9, 2009

by Lowtax

Gatekeeper posted:

but can't you be an atheist without caring about or trying to stamp out religious believers? the soviet union didn't kill christians just because they were an atheistic society, trying to reduce the entire soviet philosophy to "atheist" seems disingenuous i think.

Youre right. I'm just applying the same logic that atheists use on other creeds. Obviously it's way more complicated than that. But you can't deny that having a certain belief (or lack of thereof) might bias your worldview towards regarding certain people as inferior

Either both atheism and christianity are to blame for the suffering that was caused in their name, or neither is

a gay lion named Tangiers
Jul 30, 2013

Agag posted:

Abrahamic version: retards get a pass, along with small children, unborn babies, and people who never heard about God in the first place.

I don't know how anybody claims to know any of this with any specificity, but the general idea is that God wouldn't freeze anybody out just for not understanding what was going on.

the dantean version is that all of these people sit at the top level of hell and feel bad for everyone below them. they're still completely in hell, but instead of suffering they talk amongst themselves and look down their noses as sinners. they're basically jewish mothers.

a gay lion named Tangiers
Jul 30, 2013
anyway the point i was trying to make when i started this thread is:

atheism is popularly conceived as a movement, a group, a religion... a thing that i choose not to associate with. i am non religious, and that's what i tell people.

and then i tell them that atheists are usually assholes and i don't want to be associated with them. this thread is full of reasons why.

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS
Dante's afterlife was some funky stuff, I dig it

TacticalUrbanHomo
Aug 17, 2011

by Lowtax

devin2 posted:

anyway the point i was trying to make when i started this thread is:

atheism is popularly conceived as a movement, a group, a religion... a thing that i choose not to associate with. i am non religious, and that's what i tell people.

and then i tell them that atheists are usually assholes and i don't want to be associated with them. this thread is full of reasons why.

if some atheists are assholes about expressing their lack of belief, it's probably because all believers in abrahamic religions are assholes about expressing their beliefs, without exception

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS
it's almost like, the real problem is assholes. Thanks thread, I've learned a lot today

DreadLlama
Jul 15, 2005
Not just for breakfast anymore
So you mean if I get hosed on crazy desert cactus, and then -convinced of the truth of my own hallucinations- I go and violently prepare for the coming apocalypse, and *I'M* the bad guy?!"

At what point does my irrational belief that log monsters are a real thing and will eat you if you provoke them get to triumph over someone else's irrational belief that the latest desert religion got mad at a caricature done at his last faire and now cuts himself when you take a picture.

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS
The point of triumph for your irrational beliefs is when a numerically higher amount of people say "oh yah, those are some good beliefs" instead of "you're wrong, and ugly too" and not a moment before

the fart question
Mar 21, 2007

College Slice

Moridin920 posted:

because that's an extremely warped lens you're looking through lol


ding ding ding we have a winner

now watch as goons trot some bullshit talking points out to convince you of how truly important atheism was to Stalin

basically christians and the church were super persecuted early in USSR history because Lenin and the Bosheviks considered organized religion to be a blight and an apparatus of control over the proletariat, not because they were atheists.

Then after WW2 Stalin revived the Orthodox Church in Russia (after Hitler tried to culture flip religious types) and presented Russia as the Defender of the Faith in an effort to gain popular support.

Then depending on who was in power and which clergy were talking poo poo people still went to prison camps and poo poo, yeah. Khrushchev forced a lot of churches to close (which were opened again in the first place because of Stalin).

The more vocal with the proselytizing you were the less the government liked you, which explains the hate for the foreign protestants in the USSR.

But it was always an issue of state control, whether you were Lenin and thought religion was enslavement or whether you were Stalin just doing whatever the gently caress for popularity or whether you were Khrushchev and just didn't want people badmouthing your administration. It wasn't because of atheism itself or any ideal of promoting it. The USSR said atheism was the scientific truth but they didn't crusade about it.

why are you bothering

Fergus Mac Roich
Nov 5, 2008

Soiled Meat

Moridin920 posted:

because that's an extremely warped lens you're looking through lol


ding ding ding we have a winner

now watch as goons trot some bullshit talking points out to convince you of how truly important atheism was to Stalin

basically christians and the church were super persecuted early in USSR history because Lenin and the Bosheviks considered organized religion to be a blight and an apparatus of control over the proletariat, not because they were atheists.

Then after WW2 Stalin revived the Orthodox Church in Russia (after Hitler tried to culture flip religious types) and presented Russia as the Defender of the Faith in an effort to gain popular support.

Then depending on who was in power and which clergy were talking poo poo people still went to prison camps and poo poo, yeah. Khrushchev forced a lot of churches to close (which were opened again in the first place because of Stalin).

The more vocal with the proselytizing you were the less the government liked you, which explains the hate for the foreign protestants in the USSR.

But it was always an issue of state control, whether you were Lenin and thought religion was enslavement or whether you were Stalin just doing whatever the gently caress for popularity or whether you were Khrushchev and just didn't want people badmouthing your administration. It wasn't because of atheism itself or any ideal of promoting it. The USSR said atheism was the scientific truth but they didn't crusade about it.

beef turret is a gimmick

quakster
Jul 21, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Black Bones posted:

it's almost like, the real problem is assholes. Thanks thread, I've learned a lot today
assholes, crazies, politicians and rich people. put 'em in camps/devour their essence

old beast lunatic
Nov 3, 2004

by Hand Knit

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Beef Turret posted:

Moridin920 if he had been a christian instead of atheist


I just fuckin argue for the sake of argument pretty much

Wurzag
Jun 3, 2007

Bad Moons, Bad Moons, wot ya gonna do?


When I die I go back to Gork and Mork to be belched back into another body.

Hope that helps

old beast lunatic
Nov 3, 2004

by Hand Knit
The Jehovas came back again today and gave me this really :black101: watchtower about the end times. I admire their persistence because I've pretty much tried every polite method short of hailing satan to get them to leave me alone.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost

InterFaced posted:

The Jehovas came back again today and gave me this really :black101: watchtower about the end times. I admire their persistence because I've pretty much tried every polite method short of hailing satan to get them to leave me alone.

I just tell proselytizers that I'm happy with my current afterlife provider.

hohhat
Sep 25, 2014

devin2 posted:

the dantean version is that all of these people sit at the top level of hell and feel bad for everyone below them. they're still completely in hell, but instead of suffering they talk amongst themselves and look down their noses as sinners. they're basically jewish mothers.

Cool book imo, but problematic.





InterFaced posted:

The Jehovas came back again today and gave me this really :black101: watchtower about the end times. I admire their persistence because I've pretty much tried every polite method short of hailing satan to get them to leave me alone.

Big fan of End Times talk. Way more fun to hear about the coming RaHoWa than arguments about how evolution is a scam.

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a gay lion named Tangiers
Jul 30, 2013

Black Bones posted:

it's almost like, the real problem is assholes.

well said

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