Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Reign Of Pain
May 1, 2005

Nap Ghost

Blue Raider posted:

whenever somebody mentions noam chondky i mentally file them as a garbage person not to be taken seriously in any regard

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Tezzor
Jul 29, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!

Prallax Litovsk posted:

as someone from eastern europe, lemme break it down for y'all in terms you can understand: mup da doo didda po mo gub dat tum muhfugen bix nood cof bin dub ho muhfugga

Giblet Plus!
Sep 14, 2004
I file anyone who dislikes people like Noam Chomsky or Naomi Klein into the same bin as these people:



Intellectual children worthy of pity.

jBrereton
May 30, 2013
Grimey Drawer

Tezzor posted:

how come this high-level scientific theory published in an academic paper doesnt use terminology accessible to my three year old brain
"I'm writing an apparently high-level scientific theory, so in discussing the use of observed sentences in linguistic theory, I'd better tell people that linguistic theories involve observed sentences, i.e. a sentence that is being observed, or an "observed sentence", three loving times just in case the duller members of the audience couldn't make the connection twice."

babypolis
Nov 4, 2009

thats just how marx writes and every socialist feels like they need to copy his style

jBrereton
May 30, 2013
Grimey Drawer
It was obnoxious in the 19th century.

babypolis
Nov 4, 2009

jBrereton posted:

It was obnoxious in the 19th century.

yeah many old timey scholars wrote like that and it doesnt jive with our more modern and concise style and shorter attention spans

Ape Fist
Feb 23, 2007

Nowadays, you can do anything that you want; anal, oral, fisting, but you need to be wearing gloves, condoms, protection.
Guy: Hey Noam, whats the deal with the whole Ukraine situation, bud?
Noam: *Goes off on a 15 minute tangent about how the USA is evil as gently caress, adds something about the Ukraine thing being bad for like 10 seconds at the end.*
Guy: Ugh, a-alright.

Tezzor
Jul 29, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!

jBrereton posted:

"I'm writing an apparently high-level scientific theory, so in discussing the use of observed sentences in linguistic theory, I'd better tell people that linguistic theories involve observed sentences, i.e. a sentence that is being observed, or an "observed sentence", three loving times just in case the duller members of the audience couldn't make the connection twice."

and yet despite being told three times some duller members of the audience find the concept incomprehensible

jBrereton
May 30, 2013
Grimey Drawer

Tezzor posted:

and yet despite being told three times some duller members of the audience find the concept incomprehensible
The problem with Chomsky from a mechanical writing point of view is that you are being bombarded with useless information that makes his work more difficult to tackle than it actually needs to be, because as people are saying, there isn't anything particularly unintuitive about his work. He just chooses to make it a total slog.

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->
if someone's conclusion on every international affair or incident is "gently caress the usa" even on things that have nothing to do with the usa then it should be a clue that they're full of poo poo

babypolis
Nov 4, 2009

Fojar38 posted:

if someone's conclusion on every international affair or incident is "gently caress the usa" even on things that have nothing to do with the usa then it should be a clue that they're full of poo poo

actually hes right

there is nowhere in the world where the us doesnt have influence, and most problems internationally can be traced to something retarded tthe us did

Tezzor
Jul 29, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!

jBrereton posted:

The problem with Chomsky from a mechanical writing point of view is that you are being bombarded with useless information that makes his work more difficult to tackle than it actually needs to be, because as people are saying, there isn't anything particularly unintuitive about his work. He just chooses to make it a total slog.

I think the Original Poster was referring to his political writing, not his technical writing. I agree the former has gotten more meandering with age

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Fojar38 posted:

if someone's conclusion on every international affair or incident is "gently caress the usa" even on things that have nothing to do with the usa then it should be a clue that they're full of poo poo

Everything has something do to with the USA. The entire world is Americas sphere of influence.

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->
if that's what you believe then you also have to credit america for good things that happen, which is something chomsky never does

Tezzor
Jul 29, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!

Fojar38 posted:

if that's what you believe then you also have to credit america for good things that happen, which is something chomsky never does

qq

ashgromnies
Jun 19, 2004

opus111 posted:

manufacturing consent is a good book.


i don't know anything about linguistics but I've heard loads of people scoff at it online in non-specific ways which makes me believe that his linguistic work is actually really good and people do it to sound smarter than they actually are.

it's just old at this point and other ppl have developed on his ideas and rejected some

it's historically important but modern linguistics has incorporated and moved beyond him

babypolis
Nov 4, 2009

Fojar38 posted:

if that's what you believe then you also have to credit america for good things that happen, which is something chomsky never does

usually america doesnt do good things for other nations. in fact if america is messing around your bussines you can 100% assume its to your own detriment. also your a retarded baby that knows nothing about int politics and shouldshut the gently caress up

Reign Of Pain
May 1, 2005

Nap Ghost

babypolis posted:

usually america doesnt do good things for other nations. in fact if america is messing around your bussines you can 100% assume its to your own detriment. also your a retarded baby that knows nothing about int politics and shouldshut the gently caress up

Sounds like every other country in the world. What country is going to do something for another for free? The only reason 1 nation helps another is to help itself.

Beef Turret
Jul 9, 2009

by Lowtax
Never forget

Clipperton
Dec 20, 2011
Grimey Drawer

Beef Turret posted:

Never forget


lol even christopher hitchens (who loving hated chomsky) thought the khmer rouge thing was bullshit

quote:

Here is the story, as far as I can trace it, of Chomsky's effort to "minimize" or "deny" the harvest of the Khmer Rouge. It will be seen that the phony "credibility" of the charge against him derives from his lack of gullibility about the American mass killings in Indochina (routinely euphemized or concealed by large sections of the domestic intelligentsia). From this arises the idea that Chomsky might have said such things; was the sort of person who could decline to criticize "the other side"; was a well-known political extremist. Couple this with the slothful ease of the accusation, the reluctance of certain authors to prove they are not unpatriotic dupes, and you have a scapegoat in the making. Dr. Arbuthnot was right. Nobody would believe that Chomsky advocated a massacre. But they might be brought to believe that he excused or overlooked one.

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Chomsky also said the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia to overthrow Pol Pot was, unlike Iraq and Afghanistan, an actual example of a humanitarian intervention.

Kiryen
Feb 25, 2015

babypolis posted:

actually hes right

there is nowhere in the world where the us doesnt have influence, and most problems internationally can be traced to something retarded tthe us did

Which is a great way to think if Complex Cause Fallacy and completely denying the agency of anyone but America is your thing.

Which is probably the case if you think Chomsky is even remotely a serious intellectual.

Kiryen fucked around with this message at 23:39 on May 27, 2015

Tezzor
Jul 29, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!

Beef Turret posted:

Never forget


maybe if noam chomsky murdered a black kid you'd like him better

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->
chomsky is an expert on propaganda because he himself is a propagandist masquerading as an intellectual

Tezzor
Jul 29, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!

Fojar38 posted:

chomsky is an expert on propaganda because he himself is a propagandist masquerading as an intellectual

kind of like how you are a hog who walks as a man

babypolis
Nov 4, 2009

Fojar38 posted:

chomsky is an expert on propaganda because he himself is a propagandist masquerading as an intellectual

i bet youve never read more than a paragraph of his writing

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

babypolis posted:

i bet youve never read more than a paragraph of his writing

it usually doesn't take longer than a sentence to realize something is wrong

Tezzor
Jul 29, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!
the five letters F, O, J, A and R in that order generally suffice

Kiryen
Feb 25, 2015

babypolis posted:

i bet youve never read more than a paragraph of his writing

You don't need to read more than a few pages of Mein Kampf to reject it as complete bullshit and it's author as a deeply despicable person either.

Tezzor
Jul 29, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!

Kiryen posted:

You don't need to read more than a few pages of Mein Kampf to reject it as complete bullshit and it's author as a deeply despicable person either.

lol

babypolis
Nov 4, 2009

Kiryen posted:

You don't need to read more than a few pages of Mein Kampf to reject it as complete bullshit and it's author as a deeply despicable person either.

what a good, illustrative example you got there buddy. surely comparing noam chomsky to hitler will make your argument more clear to everyone

Reign Of Pain
May 1, 2005

Nap Ghost
When Noam is bitching about America why does he consistently ignore the guilt of other nations regarding the same whine he's on about? I know that "But they're doing it too wahh waaah waaaah" is a very Russian thing to do but come on....

Tezzor
Jul 29, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!

Reign Of Pain posted:

When Noam is bitching about America why does he consistently ignore the guilt of other nations regarding the same whine he's on about? I know that "But they're doing it too wahh waaah waaaah" is a very Russian thing to do but come on....


"My own concern is primarily the terror and violence carried out by my own state, for two reasons. For one thing, because it happens to be the larger component of international violence. But also for a much more important reason than that; namely, I can do something about it. So even if the U.S. was responsible for 2 percent of the violence in the world instead of the majority of it, it would be that 2 percent I would be primarily responsible for. And that is a simple ethical judgment. That is, the ethical value of one’s actions depends on their anticipated and predictable consequences. It is very easy to denounce the atrocities of someone else. That has about as much ethical value as denouncing atrocities that took place in the 18th century."

opus111
Jul 6, 2014

Giblet Plus! posted:

I file anyone who dislikes people like Noam Chomsky or Naomi Klein into the same bin as these people:



Intellectual children worthy of pity.

chompsky is good, naomi klein is terrible, not even in the same league, wtf? all her work starts on the assumption that you agree with her 100%. Her writing is idiotic.

frogge
Apr 7, 2006


Some bits of his speeches got put into some Leftover Crack/Choking Victim songs; which is kinda cool.

His universal grammar theory doesn't hold much weight outside of a small fraction of US linguistics academics; which is kinda *farts*

buckets of buckets
Apr 8, 2012

CHECK OUT MY AWESOME POSTS
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3681373&pagenumber=114&perpage=40#post447051278

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3681373&pagenumber=91&perpage=40#post444280066

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3818944&pagenumber=196&perpage=40#post472627338

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3788178&pagenumber=405&perpage=40#post474195694

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3831643&pagenumber=5&perpage=40#post475694634

ethical value are the points lefties get for saying things is bad

Reign Of Pain
May 1, 2005

Nap Ghost

Tezzor posted:

"My own concern is primarily the terror and violence carried out by my own state, for two reasons. For one thing, because it happens to be the larger component of international violence. But also for a much more important reason than that; namely, I can do something about it. So even if the U.S. was responsible for 2 percent of the violence in the world instead of the majority of it, it would be that 2 percent I would be primarily responsible for. And that is a simple ethical judgment. That is, the ethical value of one’s actions depends on their anticipated and predictable consequences. It is very easy to denounce the atrocities of someone else. That has about as much ethical value as denouncing atrocities that took place in the 18th century."

How convenient. Why can he do more about the actions of the US than the actions of another nation? He can write about them too? The argument about denouncing the atrocities of another nation is weak at best and I doubt that he has regarded himself as an American for a long long time.

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS

Tezzor posted:

"My own concern is primarily the terror and violence carried out by my own state, for two reasons. For one thing, because it happens to be the larger component of international violence. But also for a much more important reason than that; namely, I can do something about it. So even if the U.S. was responsible for 2 percent of the violence in the world instead of the majority of it, it would be that 2 percent I would be primarily responsible for. And that is a simple ethical judgment. That is, the ethical value of one’s actions depends on their anticipated and predictable consequences. It is very easy to denounce the atrocities of someone else. That has about as much ethical value as denouncing atrocities that took place in the 18th century."

That's a good quote, thanks. I think he is much clearer, and thus better, in his interviews than his books

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Tezzor
Jul 29, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!

Reign Of Pain posted:

How convenient. Why can he do more about the actions of the US than the actions of another nation? He can write about them too? The argument about denouncing the atrocities of another nation is weak at best and I doubt that he has regarded himself as an American for a long long time.

it's so gratifying when you respect someone and you universally discover that his critics are barely sapient

  • Locked thread