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asio posted:Even the mighty alp can change policy. For example the founding twin pillars of protectionism and exclusion of asiatics has been updated to free trade and exclusion of asiatics
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Jun 30, 2015 12:57
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Time for First Dog:
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Jun 30, 2015 13:01
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Pickled Tink posted:Time for First Dog: If you just read all that and need a laugh: 
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Jun 30, 2015 13:04
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http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...20150630-gi12pyquote:Labor has dropped any reference to non-refoulement - the principle which protects refugees from being returned to a country where they face harm - from its draft national platform. In the past I used to wonder when we'll finally hit the bottom. These thoughts have been replaced more and more with the idea that there may not even be a bottom.
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Jun 30, 2015 13:08
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Jumpingmanjim posted:If you just read all that and need a laugh: I didn't understand this post so I went and read the first dog cartoon for the first time in a year and I still don't understand this image. Precious seconds of my life wasted. Thanks
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Jun 30, 2015 13:10
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Sulla-Marius 88 posted:I didn't understand this post so I went and read the first dog cartoon for the first time in a year and I still don't understand this image. Precious seconds of my life wasted. Thanks 
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Jun 30, 2015 13:13
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Sulla-Marius 88 posted:I didn't understand this post so I went and read the first dog cartoon for the first time in a year and I still don't understand this image. Precious seconds of my life wasted. Thanks Yeah you don't want to bother. Trust me.
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Jun 30, 2015 13:14
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Don't get mad because nobody of quality and righteousness likes your particular terrible thing that you're trying to foist on people. I don't make you watch my kids' football videos
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Jun 30, 2015 13:15
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Matthew Beet posted:Yeah you don't want to bother. Trust me. Didn't know you were still alive. How's being a mod working out for you? Do you even need to check my post history for updates or do you just wait for the reports to come in
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Jun 30, 2015 13:16
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Sulla-Marius 88 posted:Didn't know you were still alive. How's being a mod working out for you? Do you even need to check my post history for updates or do you just wait for the reports to come in I just did a search and surprisingly you've never been reported. Ever.
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Jun 30, 2015 13:17
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Actually no one in this thread gets reported. Well some do, but that's in other forums. You're all very tolerant in here.
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Jun 30, 2015 13:17
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Matthew Beet posted:I just did a search and surprisingly you've never been reported. Ever. wh-wh-wh-wh-whiggity-whiggty-whirrr-rwhih-wh-wh-whwhiiiiite noise (right no1ce) e: I think it's largely because I lack the  to rereg, I've been trying to fly under the radar for a while
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Jun 30, 2015 13:19
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Yeah it takes a lot for me to report any of your guff you clowns, but that doesn't mean you're not being poo poo. Stop being poo poo.
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Jun 30, 2015 13:21
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I think the only time I really get annoyed enough at someone here to want to do something about it I immediately realise that the scope of the problem exceeds the capacity of the mods to effect change and so I just put them on ignore and move on with my life. Like GC and Negated and random blow-in IWC clones. In terms of handling conflict we're pretty self-sufficient, we acknowledge that fundamentally everyone here is a worthless turd so why get upset
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Jun 30, 2015 13:24
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Skipped over that dog post without even registering the topic. All coming very naturally now. Speaking of poo poo posts my prediction of a 100 page month fed by a Negligent meltdown is looking like a total bust. I thought Screaming Llama was going to fill the void but I think he was just on some kind of bender and not here for a sustained effort. So what I'm really saying is who's doing next month's thread? Because you've got an hour and a bit to sort it out and fill it with gags about the Democrats.
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Jun 30, 2015 13:38
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I was asked by my union to attend an industrial relations hearing at parliament house with 2 other Union members here in Hobart today with Lisa Chester and Catryna Bilyk from Labor. They wanted us to have a sit down and hear first hand experiences and concerns regarding our industry and Truss/Abbott's intention to gently caress our industry over hard. Was quite interesting. I made it clear that I was a union member and entirely disheartened with Labor and there is an increasing union shift towards Green with Labor's gutlesness as far as policy goes regarding unions/IR issues etc. They were friendly enough and very receptive. I'm not sure where to go from here, though. They took down minutes and said they will present all our individual "stories" at the next federal parliament sitting... I feel like more can be done though. Greens meeting coming up here in Hobart on the 9th... anyone going to be there I could bump heads with? Never been to a greens meeting (pretty "green"/new so to speak) In any case this is the first experience I've had with "real" politicians/politics and it's made me very keen to do more and get a lot more active. Not particularly with Labor but at least show my face at more Green's meetings and encourage the greens to push harder for more union members/votes. Every time I mentioned Greens I was kind of ignored except when they were mentioning getting more sway with Greens votes to back their policies. :P Sludge Tank fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 13:48
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Aaaaahhhhh. I missed good reads like that. Maybe the thread is good again.
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Jun 30, 2015 13:51
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what the gently caress posted:I was asked by my union to attend an industrial relations hearing at parliament house with 2 other Union members here in Hobart today with Lisa Chester and Catryna Bilyk from Labor. They wanted us to have a sit down and hear first hand experiences and concerns regarding our industry and Truss/Abbott's intention to gently caress our industry over hard. Was quite interesting. I made it clear that I was a union member and entirely disheartened with Labor and there is an increasing union shift towards Green with Labor's gutlesness as far as policy goes regarding unions/IR issues etc. They were friendly enough and very receptive. I'm not sure where to go from here, though. They took down minutes and said they will present all our individual "stories" at the next federal parliament sitting... I feel like more can be done though. Greens meeting coming up here in Hobart on the 9th... anyone going to be there I could bump heads with? Never been to a greens meeting (pretty "green"/new so to speak) Just out of interest what industry are you talking about?
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Jun 30, 2015 13:55
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Graic Gabtar posted:Just out of interest what industry are you talking about? Maritime/shipping MUA/Greens member here. As I mentioned a while ago one of my good mate's father is relatively high up in Tas Labor, and said himself that "Labor is hosed" and had no qualm with me swaying Greens.
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Jun 30, 2015 13:57
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what the gently caress posted:Every time I mentioned Greens I was kind of ignored except when they were mentioning getting more sway with Greens votes to back their policies. :P I bet it was the same blank, smiling face you'll see when a Scientologist or other nutter promises to sit you down so that the two of you can have an honest and lively debate on the merits of each side's position and it becomes your turn to speak. The reason is that it's not an honest debate, they're not interested in your thoughts, they're not looking to change their position or their path. What they're trying to do is open a gap in your defences by pretending to lower their shields, and then they can sit and nod and smile while you flap your lips and then it's their turn to speak and try to wring whatever they want out of you: your money, your allegiance, a tick on a form that they can take back home and show that there's broad support for some particular political campaign they're gunning for within their ranks. The perfect patsy that everybody's looking for is the intelligent, disillusioned but unaligned standalone, whether it be for a cult or for a political party. Intelligent and aware of it so constrained by logic or evidence, disillusioned so looking for an answer, unaligned so they don't have to break down any pre-existing beliefs or allegiances, and standalone so that they can mould the attack to your specific circumstance and a sympathetic friend won't clue you in to the inconsistencies or fallacies. Let Labor drown imo Sulla Faex fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 14:03
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white mans burping posted:i live with a bunch of americans and in america they get five days of annual leave per year, unpaid I get 15 days paid vacation (goes up to 20 after 5 years) + 10 days paid sick (the sick resets annually), I think at least 7 paid national holidays (Christmas, New Years, Labor, Thanksgiving, Independence, MLK, Presidents). My last job shut down for the week of 4th July and 2 weeks at Christmas but Big Pharma is special. Miss that job. Now I work in silicon valley for a big tech company, so it has other perks like every floor in every building in the campus having a kitchen with cereal and fresh milk dispensers, free bottles of juice, soda and water etc. Then there are 2 cafeterias on campus, each having about 5 'stations' (one of the cafeterias is just Indian food, pretty neat). The food is subsidized so it's a little cheaper than normal. I haven't seen anyone using the beach volleyball courts yet, but the line for the on-campus Starbucks is usually pretty long in the morning. Your American friends should have pulled harder on their boot straps and moved on from retail work. No but seriously I would never be where I am today, especially because I don't have a university degree, without Australia. In Australia I was able to work my way up from nothing out of high school and gradually get jobs of increasing skill level, and I never hit that "you need a degree" wall that exists here. Bald Stalin fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 14:04
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Sulla-Marius 88 posted:I bet it was the same blank, smiling face you'll see when a Scientologist or other nutter promises to sit you down so that the two of you can have an honest and lively debate on the merits of each side's position and it becomes your turn to speak. The reason is that it's not an honest debate, they're not interested in your thoughts, they're not looking to change their position or their path. What they're trying to do is open a gap in your defences by pretending to lower their shields, and then they can sit and nod and smile while you flap your lips and then it's their turn to speak and try to wring whatever they want out of you: your money, your allegiance, a tick on a form that they can take back home and show that there's broad support for some particular political campaign they're gunning for within their ranks. I absolutely saw that. The other two people I was with kept carrying on with their personal stories about being worried to feed their kids but a couple of times I brough it back to saying something like "look, the govt is not going to be interested in hearing individual stories of hardship, at the end of the day, if you get rid of these thousands of australian workers you're getting rid of tax/revenue etc and also putting extra strain on the supposed already-strained dole network by putting workers back on the dole qeue with qualifications that mean nothing on land" Lisa was almost too friendly and I could tell, because I'm relatively young, she was trying to recruit me into Labor ranks and was saying crap like "We need to take back our Party... get involved!" At the end of the day, I was grateful for the experience but I still kind of see through it with my general disenchantment with overall Labor party. I respect they took the time to have a good meeting like that, but I feel something like that would be much more productive with Greens MP's that are actually interested in P2P encounters and their concerns.
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Jun 30, 2015 14:07
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If you're unemployed like I am then every day's a holiday. Incidentally my girlfriend has just started working at Google* on a 6mo contract and the facilities are pretty good, restaurant-quality cuisine in the free bistro (like literally different restaurants, chinese, vegan, etc etc), gyms, yoga, etc etc. * Google has outsourced this project to a subcontractor so technically she works for a 3rd party so the compensation package wouldn't be fantastic except for the fact that she gets access to all those sweet high-tech money money "Do
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Jun 30, 2015 14:09
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Also Graic if you take my posts and send them to these Labor ppl I will eat out your mum
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Jun 30, 2015 14:10
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what the gently caress posted:I absolutely saw that. The other two people I was with kept carrying on with their personal stories about being worried to feed their kids but a couple of times I brough it back to saying something like "look, the govt is not going to be interested in hearing individual stories of hardship, at the end of the day, if you get rid of these thousands of australian workers you're getting rid of tax/revenue etc and also putting extra strain on the supposed already-strained dole network by putting workers back on the dole qeue with qualifications that mean nothing on land" Yeah it's this poo poo that actually makes me even more disillusioned, because if it were MPs going out being like "hey I'm not trying to sell you anything, I'm not trying to convince you to join Labor, I just want to know what you're thinking, we have these polls but honestly I don't know how far I can trust them. How do you feel about [X]?" I'd be fine. As it is, though, it's an orchestrated PR campaign like coca-cola amatil does, just sending staffers out to "touch base" with the public and put on a caring face. If they're asking for feedback at the same time they're trying to sell you something, that immediately tells you that they're full of poo poo. If your product is broken and needs improvement, do you try to flog it to the same people you're asking for tips on making it not-poo poo? No. So all they're doing is the cult recruitment poo poo and it makes me even madder than if they'd just kept on going with the program they've already clearly decided upon a long time ago.
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Jun 30, 2015 14:14
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Google is great in that regard. They have excellent benefits like child care on site, dry cleaning and laundry on site, 100% subsidized meals like you say, they're officially a 'dog friendly' company so you can bring your pooch in and a bunch more. However they've become such a 'thing' now that they're starting to build up a cult like following within their employees and depending on the team/department if you don't drink the kool aid and work a ton of hours then you will have people asking why you don't care about helping Google take over the world. Tesla is the same but worse because whilst Google expects you to work hard and join the cult, Tesla is a cult but doesn't pay the big $$ like Google. Tesla expects you to join and change the world with Elon but get paid not-tech wages. I turned down their job offer because of it.
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Jun 30, 2015 14:15
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Sulla-Marius 88 posted:Yeah it's this poo poo that actually makes me even more disillusioned, because if it were MPs going out being like "hey I'm not trying to sell you anything, I'm not trying to convince you to join Labor, I just want to know what you're thinking, we have these polls but honestly I don't know how far I can trust them. How do you feel about [X]?" I'd be fine. As it is, though, it's an orchestrated PR campaign like coca-cola amatil does, just sending staffers out to "touch base" with the public and put on a caring face. If they're asking for feedback at the same time they're trying to sell you something, that immediately tells you that they're full of poo poo. If your product is broken and needs improvement, do you try to flog it to the same people you're asking for tips on making it not-poo poo? No. So all they're doing is the cult recruitment poo poo and it makes me even madder than if they'd just kept on going with the program they've already clearly decided upon a long time ago. Thanks for crushing my dreams as far as being a relatively semi-active voice of my union and workforce is concerned. Ha. In all seriousness, as much as Lisa was pushing me to "get more involved with Labor and 'Have a voice'", made me all the more keen to hammer the Greens.
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Jun 30, 2015 14:17
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what the gently caress posted:Also Graic if you take my posts and send them to these Labor ppl I will eat out your mum You're putting me in a tough spot here mate. I don't want the old girl to miss out on a chance of a good time. Don't worry mate. By auspol standards I'm a complete arsehole, but I'm not that kind of arsehole. I'm assuming your current gripe is over the changes to conditions for workers in Australian waters? If so I don't support it ether.
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Jun 30, 2015 14:17
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...so that increase in TAFE fees have had an unexpected side effect. Wait. No. I remember the thread predicting this would happen when the fees were first introduced. quote:TAFE teachers and students furious over 'ghost town' campus.
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Jun 30, 2015 14:20
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what the gently caress posted:Thanks for crushing my dreams as far as being a relatively semi-active voice of my union and workforce is concerned. Ha. Oh you can definitely be a pretty important figure if you just turn up and put the hours in. The funny thing about people is that the ratio of "doers" to "listeners" is like 9:1 or even 99:1. If you just put your hand up and start doing stuff, you'll make more of a difference than you expect, no matter the field - whether it be unions or politics in general or just going out and picking up a couple bits of rubbish on the weekend. And whenever people initiate top-down policies they seek the support (and often compromise to secure the support) of doers, because they tend to represent sub-groups of people who will go along with whatever that person says. If you want a lovely analogy that's a bit easier to visualise, look at Feudal levies. The king controls but is reliant upon his lords who control but are reliant upon the people below them (dukes? sub-dukes? who loving knows) and so on and so forth until you get to the guys with pikes in their hands or guys who hump around bits of hay for the horses. If you just sit and listen you'll forever be the guy on the bottom rung of the ladder, but if you go out and start agitating consistently you can rapidly build quite a significant amount of influence -- and then people will start coming to you directly when they want things because it's far easier and more efficient to compromise with you than it is to try to contact and subvert every single person under your "banner".
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Jun 30, 2015 14:23
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what the gently caress posted:Greens meeting coming up here in Hobart on the 9th... anyone going to be there I could bump heads with? Never been to a greens meeting (pretty "green"/new so to speak) Paging SeekOtherCandidate to the thread
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Jun 30, 2015 14:25
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Waaaah the Christians are out to get me
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Graic Gabtar posted:You're putting me in a tough spot here mate. I don't want the old girl to miss out on a chance of a good time. Thanks buddy. I appreciate that. Even from the most hated poster in this thread. Sulla-Marius 88 posted:Oh you can definitely be a pretty important figure if you just turn up and put the hours in. The funny thing about people is that the ratio of "doers" to "listeners" is like 9:1 or even 99:1. If you just put your hand up and start doing stuff, you'll make more of a difference than you expect, no matter the field - whether it be unions or politics in general or just going out and picking up a couple bits of rubbish on the weekend. And whenever people initiate top-down policies they seek the support (and often compromise to secure the support) of doers, because they tend to represent sub-groups of people who will go along with whatever that person says. If you want a lovely analogy that's a bit easier to visualise, look at Feudal levies. The king controls but is reliant upon his lords who control but are reliant upon the people below them (dukes? sub-dukes? who loving knows) and so on and so forth. If you just sit and listen you'll forever be the guy on the bottom rung of the ladder, but if you go out and start agitating consistently you can rapidly build quite a significant amount of influence -- and then people will start coming to you directly when they want things because it's far easier and more efficient to compromise with you than it is to try to contact and subvert every single person under your "banner". I would absolutely love to get so much more involved but I've got so many lovely skeletons in my closet that if I were to become more active/public I feel that those could come out and haunt me and whatever party/organisation I choose to fight for. It's not hard to track me down and drag out dirt. I don't want to tarnish any organisation with my lovely past.
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Jun 30, 2015 14:27
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MythLisp posted:...so that increase in TAFE fees have had an unexpected side effect. Wait. No. I remember the thread predicting this would happen when the fees were first introduced. I know it's popular to not link to murdoch rags or other lovely newspapers but I think the more important thing is to have links we can share on FB etc. There have been a bunch of articles quoted here that I havent shared on facebook because the link wasnt posted and I was on a phone or something. So, in case anybody's interested: http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/tafe-teachers-and-students-furious-over-ghost-town-campus-20150624-ghw2qr.html (Great article by the way, just classic tory fuckery, throwing taxpayer money at a non-existent problem as part of a campaign to defraud the lower classes of a better future) Sulla Faex fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 14:31
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what the gently caress posted:Thanks buddy. I appreciate that. Even from the most hated poster in this thread. It's hard to say. I was having this discussion with a guy here last week, he was saying that he's too aggressive and brutish and wouldn't be a good spokesperson, you need good public speakers with flawless pasts. I disagreed with that - if you believe in something, put your hand up and make yourself available. I'm speaking in general, as someone who fled the country I haven't done much since I got here, but I'm pretty dissatisfied with that and as my Italian improves I'm trying to find more opportunities to help out. With you, however, if you've got a dirty past and don't have a great manner of speaking, that precludes you from the more publicly visible positions, so you won't ever be president or something. But an army needs more than just its generalissimo, and the quartermaster doesn't need to be the patron saint of smiling blandly and saying nothing in TV interviews. Drop the greens a line (or your union) and see if they have something for you, at the very least the Greens are always happy to have people handing out flyers or putting up posters or sabotaging nuclear facilities in false flag attacks to destabilise the state.
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Jun 30, 2015 14:35
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Sulla-Marius 88 posted:It's hard to say. I was having this discussion with a guy here last week, he was saying that he's too aggressive and brutish and wouldn't be a good spokesperson, you need good public speakers with flawless pasts. I disagreed with that - if you believe in something, put your hand up and make yourself available. I'm speaking in general, as someone who fled the country I haven't done much since I got here, but I'm pretty dissatisfied with that and as my Italian improves I'm trying to find more opportunities to help out. With you, however, if you've got a dirty past and don't have a great manner of speaking, that precludes you from the more publicly visible positions, so you won't ever be president or something. But an army needs more than just its generalissimo, and the quartermaster doesn't need to be the patron saint of smiling blandly and saying nothing in TV interviews. Drop the greens a line (or your union) and see if they have something for you, at the very least the Greens are always happy to have people handing out flyers or putting up posters or sabotaging nuclear facilities in false flag attacks to destabilise the state. I'm happy to have a backroom voice. As I said, there are a lot of union members within our fold that are realising that the the Green's are the only party truly representing us, and vocally, too. I don't ever want to get to a stage where I'm on TV making a point and then a day later some guy drags out my terrible history and discredit any ground the Greens have, at the end of the day a little while ago, even before I decided to be a Greens voter over Labor, I realised that these people are more or less the last option we have. I'd just hate to tarnish them with my lovely past.... even though I'd probably not make enough of an impact. I am educated, have a good public voice and no problem with public speaking.. but feel that it's more beneficial for someone else to do the speaking because there are so many 'right wing trolls' out there that will have no problem digging up my dirt to harm the Green's credibility as a voice for the working class, et al
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Jun 30, 2015 14:42
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Sulla-Marius 88 posted:I know it's popular to not link to murdoch rags or other lovely newspapers but I think the more important thing is to have links we can share on FB etc. There have been a bunch of articles quoted here that I havent shared on facebook because the link wasnt posted and I was on a phone or something. Sorry. Oversight on linking article on my part due to phone posting.
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Jun 30, 2015 14:46
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d3rt posted:I never hit that "you need a degree" wall that exists here. Don't forget the "your school isn't prestigious enough, sorry" wall that's here also. Straight out of university, top students from average schools will be passed over for average students who happen to have gone to top schools and slacked off for years. Also different to Australia is that it'll follow you for a long time. People will forever ask you where you went to school. If you can say you went to an Ivy or MIT etc, you'll literally get a "woah!" response when having that conversation for the rest of your life. Alumni networks (i.e. the old boys clubs) are also much more important for finding jobs. Wanting to replicate this sort of system in Australia is not the greatest idea...
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Jun 30, 2015 14:46
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what the gently caress posted:I'm happy to have a backroom voice. As I said, there are a lot of union members within our fold that are realising that the the Green's are the only party truly representing us, and vocally, too. I don't ever want to get to a stage where I'm on TV making a point and then a day later some guy drags out my terrible history and discredit any ground the Greens have, at the end of the day a little while ago, even before I decided to be a Greens voter over Labor, I realised that these people are more or less the last option we have. I'd just hate to tarnish them with my lovely past.... even though I'd probably not make enough of an impact. Definitely, I'm just saying that you don't have to be a public face, you don't have to be a public speaker or a representative. Be a cog in the machine, be the guy who turns up and gets things done. Any organisation in the world is like an iceberg - you have the bit that people see, the very visible bit that embodies the organisation to the public, but the vast majority of its machinations are hidden from sight, and without which the organisation would not exist (or function). In fact I imagine that you probably couldn't become a public face for the Greens even if you tried, they have a bunch of really good people for that, the public speakers and the poster children. What they're probably lacking (you'd have to ask a Greens staffer to confirm though) is, apart from the ever-present money, a bunch of people willing to turn up and do the behind-the-scenes stuff. The people who set up and tear down the stage rather than perform. I can't give you specifics because I honestly don't know, but I wouldn't really worry about your past coming back to haunt you. Stick your hand up and tell them you want to help out (there's even a form on the website) and then specify that you used to burn churches for the insurance money, and they'll say oh okay well we won't slot this guy in for vatican ambassador if we ever take power. You won't find out what use they could have for you unless you ask.
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Jun 30, 2015 14:47
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Anyway I don't mean to go on some weird vicarious recruiting drive, I just meant to discourage you from the idea that you'd be useless (or worse, a liability) to the Greens just because you didn't spend your while life volunteering at a soup kitchen and rescuing feral pigeons. If politics interests you, if making a difference matters, then go talk to them and see what you can do. There's a hell of a lot that goes on behind the scenes so that Scott Ludlam can sit in front of a camera and have actual policies to propose. It's not just Larissa Waters and Adam Bandt in a shed somewhere cranking out letters 24/7 and putting up flyers
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Jun 30, 2015 14:53
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d3rt posted:Google is great in that regard. They have excellent benefits like child care on site, dry cleaning and laundry on site, 100% subsidized meals like you say, they're officially a 'dog friendly' company so you can bring your pooch in and a bunch more. The other caveat is that the jobs tend to be in super expensive places (London for my girlfriend, but the tech cities in America have it worse) so unless you're some headhunted fancypants then you're going to be eating salmon at google for lunch and then ramen noodles at home in your lovely broom closet flat. The kool-aid culture shits me to tears as well. "Why do you want to work at [here]" "best salary compensation and the work sounds tolerable" apparently isn't enough, you have to get down and fellate a company that has its own lobby group as though it's still just two guys in their mum's basement drinking jolt and arguing about star trek Sulla Faex fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 14:58
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