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Moridin920 posted:Well you're right I think it is actually difficult to sink the whole ship but all you need is minor damage to the flight deck and its whole purpose is borked. carrier groups don't travel in bunched up groups like you see in promo photos. they're spread out way more. like beyond the horizon far. where in the group of ships is the carrier? radar still has limited range. you still need to know where to aim the missile. those speedboats aren't going to be packing radar that can effectively see beyond the horizon. any ship or plane packing a radar is going to be an immediate target. they're also not going to be standing still, especially in a hot war. they're not gonna just park off the chinese coast and wait for poo poo to come to them. nuclear aircraft carriers are fast fuckers. that's assuming you're actually able to mount the missiles to the speedboats (which is a big if), get them into position, and get them aimed and launched properly. the millennium challenge wargame had a lot of poo poo wrong with it (that general also did poo poo like assume instantaneous communication via a network of motorcycle couriers or some insane poo poo like that) and also took place in an environment where the navy couldn't just shoot any boat that came within x miles of the group because it's the fuckin arabian gulf and it's constricted and there's a shitload of traffic around. the us loses a carrier (or just a flight deck, w/e) and the rules of engagement will get a lot looser either way. also 1000 missiles is a fuckin lot of missiles. how many times can they do that? if they only get one carrier with their whole antiship missile load, we have more carriers. Moridin920 posted:Just a reminder that Israel's Iron Dome (developed with the US) is supposedly the world's most advanced point defense system and it can't even stop 100% of lovely 70s era mortar fire. sure, but it's a more difficult problem to solve. the jumped-up fireworks rocket could come down anywhere, and reaction times are a lot less. naval point defense can assume that incoming missiles are headed towards certain locations. look, i'm not saying the navy is invincible to missile swarms. but it's not guaranteed that you're going to knock out a carrier. maybe you wind up just sinking a couple escorts. the point is that missile swarm is something the navy's been thinking about for decades. Robo Reagan posted:Isn't that what we have billions of dollars worth of spy satellites for? I imagine the heat signature is pretty hard to mask so just look for the blob of hot that's hauling rear end to your homebase blob of hot doesn't really do you a lot of good for individual targeting. it just lets you know the general area at the time you launch your missiles. and given the US has satellites as well, odds are good they'll see the hot launch exhaust and do an immediate course change to get the gently caress out. seriously the only way a ballistic missile attack against ships pens out is if you're throwing nuclear warheads. which yeah probably would sink a carrier group buuuuut...
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Jun 11, 2015 19:52
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Robo Reagan posted:Isn't that what we have billions of dollars worth of spy satellites for? I imagine the heat signature is pretty hard to mask so just look for the blob of hot that's hauling rear end to your homebase there is a lot of lag on spy satellites and by the time the ship appears on your screen it will have already moved thats if you can even find it in the first place which isnt as simply as looking for heat signatures
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Jun 11, 2015 19:52
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Ah, alright. I'm used to the idea that ships are slow as gently caress and sit around doing fuckall
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Jun 11, 2015 19:54
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can we get a mod to rename the thread to something like "Tom Clancy knows just what China is doing" or something like that, thanks and god bless
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Jun 11, 2015 19:54
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Necc0 posted:problem with those is you actually need to know exactly where your target is. and if your target is beyond the horizon and 'somewhere in the ocean' then good luck not really hard to spot a ship that size in 2015 and determine its heading. Fojar38 posted:http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/08/04/our-aircraft-carriers-are-not-sitting-ducks/ A lot of fancy tech and I'm noticing not once do they say 100% effective which means one thing hits the flight deck and the whole ship is useless. Doesn't need to sink. That whole article reads like the Pentagon going 'no we promise the F35 is a cutting edge super plane.'
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Jun 11, 2015 19:56
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china is really weird in the sheer amount of bullshit that there is out there about it in the western press its basically a 21st century mix of orientalism and yellow terror
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Jun 11, 2015 19:57
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I'll just leave this here:US Naval Institute 2009 posted:If operational as is believed, the system marks the first time a ballistic missile has been successfully developed to attack vessels at sea. Ships currently have no defense against a ballistic missile attack. Granted it's been 6 years but still gl hitting a missile going mach 8 and btw there's 100 of them. The top brass are assholes and they either know but don't care because money and career or they are idiots and don't know but either is perfectly plausible.
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Jun 11, 2015 19:58
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Moridin920 posted:not really hard to spot a ship that size in 2015 and determine its heading. itt its 1750 apparently and naval combat constitutes lining your men-o-war off the coast of china and bombarding them into submission
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Jun 11, 2015 19:59
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Fojar38 posted:real life naval warfare isnt like eve online and actually even hitting a ship with a missle is really loving hard let alone sinking the most massive ships on the seas Heh, last I heard a ship was once sunk back in 1967 or something by a missile. I don't think even my mom was born back then. Lends a kinda farcical air to everything really, we have all these missiles and electronic warfare jammers and stuff, but it hasn't really been used, as least with ships. Training is good but doesn't really count. F-16 Vipers, export, are shot down occasionally by man-portable air-defence sure, but only when they're flying low and slow doing close air support. And a ship shot down an Iranian passenger jet once and the captain got a medal for it blah blah blah. Point is, never really tested against an enemy with the same technology. Landing a missile on a ship is hard, yes, but making a decent ship worthy of a missile is even harder.
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Jun 11, 2015 19:59
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Eh if a war really broke out and it didn't go nuclear the U.S. would just churn out cheap drones and poo poo all over China while they tried to decode some half-stolen decade old schematic they had an intern steal in between polluting their country to death and dying in accidents caused by half-assing their stolen tech. China is literally a joke.
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Jun 11, 2015 20:00
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Moridin920 posted:Granted it's been 6 years but still gl hitting a missile going mach 8 and btw there's 100 of them. you really dont seem to be comprehending how loving huge the pacific ocean is
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Jun 11, 2015 20:01
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bad caps kill japs
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Jun 11, 2015 20:01
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i say we start a war with china/russia it will be cathartic for everyone involved and it doesnt even have to be over anything for real just park some ships around some small island or whatever and murder each other for a few months then the refs will decide who won and then both sides can go back to the drawing board for a few years it'll be fun for everyone
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Jun 11, 2015 20:01
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I mean our newest most high tech ship dissolves in water and our newest most high tech plane explodes on the runway idk what you people are thinking taking the Pentagon's "everything is fine we have the best weapons and vehicles in the world" at face value.
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Jun 11, 2015 20:04
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like even ten thousand missiles is meaningless when your targets could be anywhere from the sea of japan to the philippines
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Jun 11, 2015 20:04
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they're over the horizon we gotta sail closer and spot them from the crow's nest USS Nimitz off the starboard bow!
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Jun 11, 2015 20:05
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i trust in u cap'n jack sparrow
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Jun 11, 2015 20:05
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Moridin920 posted:I mean our newest most high tech ship dissolves in water and our newest most high tech plane explodes on the runway idk what you people are thinking taking the Pentagon's "everything is fine we have the best weapons and vehicles in the world" at face value. i make my international military calculations based on goon memes as well
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Jun 11, 2015 20:06
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bring out the long nines we are closing to weapons range 32 lbers don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes 
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Jun 11, 2015 20:07
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lollin at people that take the US military's self-reported capabilities at face value
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Jun 11, 2015 20:07
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Robo Reagan posted:i say we start a war with china/russia it will be cathartic for everyone involved and it doesnt even have to be over anything for real just park some ships around some small island or whatever and murder each other for a few months then the refs will decide who won and then both sides can go back to the drawing board for a few years it'll be fun for everyone Agreed. It doesn't even have to be a proper war. Just the idea of war. The propaganda of war. Let it be fought with drones and stuff. Let merchants pass unharmed and unhampered beneath. War has a way of bringing out the best in people, and if we can utilise that without people actually dying we'd really be in business. But it brings out the best in a nation as a whole, but only if there's a nemesis. We need a villain to rail against.
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Jun 11, 2015 20:08
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IronClaymore posted:Heh, last I heard a ship was once sunk back in 1967 or something by a missile. I don't think even my mom was born back then. Lends a kinda farcical air to everything really, we have all these missiles and electronic warfare jammers and stuff, but it hasn't really been used, as least with ships. Training is good but doesn't really count. the chinese dont have technological parity with the americans and the chinese would be the first to admit that
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Jun 11, 2015 20:08
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IronClaymore posted:Agreed. It doesn't even have to be a proper war. Just the idea of war. The propaganda of war. Let it be fought with drones and stuff. Let merchants pass unharmed and unhampered beneath. Hell yeah, just wait until China or India gets for realsies serious about their space development. Space Race 2.0 is a few years away if we're lucky.
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Jun 11, 2015 20:12
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Fojar38 posted:the chinese dont have technological parity with the americans and the chinese would be the first to admit that Duh. Classic con. Lull them into a false sense of security and air power. Then turn on the radars and let loose the missiles of war!
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Jun 11, 2015 20:12
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IronClaymore posted:Duh. Classic con. Lull them into a false sense of security and air power. Then turn on the radars and let loose the missiles of war! those inscrutable orientals, always playing the long game
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Jun 11, 2015 20:13
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We have always been at war with eastasia double plus ungood
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Jun 11, 2015 20:15
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I just assume everyone is incompetent or corrupt and everything is borked until proven otherwise and work from there. My current vision of a naval conflict between China and the US looks something like half the Chinese missiles exploding in the launcher and the other half falling out of the air halfway to their target while the US ships are forced to retreat when the F35s they are trying to launch explode. All the while some rich Chinese dude and some rich American dude are chortling.
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Jun 11, 2015 20:15
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This is all you need to know about China and modern technology. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenzhou_train_collision China is literally that retarded kid who copies the smart kids answers but writes them down wrong, fails the rest and then buries the report card hoping his parents won't find out. Cheating and bullshitting is a way of life in China.
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Jun 11, 2015 20:16
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Arkanomen posted:This is all you need to know about China and modern technology. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenzhou_train_collision lol pretty sure they need to play some OpenTTD to get signaling right before anything else quote:An Lusheng, the chief of the Shanghai Railway Bureau, was quoted as saying that a device had "failed to turn from green to red." But CTCS-2 equipped trains do not rely on drivers observing green or red wayside signals, the driver has a computer-controlled monitor in front of him. Early announcements spoke of Train D3115 being stopped by a lightning strike, but that would not cause the accident. The second train D301 should not have been allowed to run into it. Whether Train D3115 was stopped by lightning or for any other reason is irrelevant. lol
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Jun 11, 2015 20:17
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Angry Fish posted:Is China reclaiming land in the South China Sea? Malaysia apparently wants to behave tough guy to China, but China told Malaysia's girlfriend that Malaysia has Islam and therefore will burka her or something. (China is a bigot, but likes to pretend to not be a bigot) Nobody knows, and China isn't telling. I'm married to a lovely Chinese gal. She informs me that I should stop asking stupid gwailo questions. Hope this helps.
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Jun 11, 2015 20:18
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If China sinks a carrier the US should blow up the Three Gorges Dam with the earthquake machine
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Jun 11, 2015 20:19
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Arkanomen posted:This is all you need to know about China and modern technology. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenzhou_train_collision India too when it comes to IT, apparently. Both countries pretty much teach their dudes to find something sort of similar on Google then slightly tweak the code so it's only mostly broken then let someone else worry about unfucking it because what you made technically does what your employer wanted it to do and you'll have a new contract with another employer in a few months anyway so gently caress it
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Jun 11, 2015 20:21
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Fojar38 posted:those inscrutable orientals, always playing the long game What? No, basic airpower tactics. Anti-SEAD stuff or whatever they call it. The Chinese could have an advantage in this thing. They set up a basic screen of poo poo, enough to be viable, we wreck it down, ok fine. The air strikes go hog wild on military positions. But secretly these are poo poo military positions. Low value divisions, prisoners and so forth. Wait until a bunch of strike aircraft are in the country, then you go live. Every plane is lit up like a Christmas Tree, a dozen radars pinging off them. The scrambled interceptors don't even have to turn on their own radars, the ground stuff guides the missiles right in. Ok it isn't that simple. But they'll definitely keep long range radars and missiles in reserve. And no matter how many Sukhoi's you shoot down (each of which will be a pain BTW, and omg the Su-27 is gorgeous), they'll keep that threat up.
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Jun 11, 2015 20:23
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:carrier groups don't travel in bunched up groups like you see in promo photos. they're spread out way more. like beyond the horizon far. where in the group of ships is the carrier? radar still has limited range. you still need to know where to aim the missile. those speedboats aren't going to be packing radar that can effectively see beyond the horizon. any ship or plane packing a radar is going to be an immediate target. Yeah you make good points but all I'm saying is that poo poo isn't invincible like the Pentagon likes to say. I don't really know how the US carrier groups are disposed during battle or whatever so I can't say much to that. I really don't know poo poo about the Chinese military but one of our subs can carry a little over 150 cruise missiles so yeah 1000 sounds like a lot but it probably isn't really when you're talking about a major nation.
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Jun 11, 2015 20:24
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Bunch of care too muches in this thread now.
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Jun 11, 2015 20:24
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Angry Fish posted:Bunch of care too muches in this thread now. yea I'll stop
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Jun 11, 2015 20:25
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IronClaymore posted:What? No, basic airpower tactics. Anti-SEAD stuff or whatever they call it. The Chinese could have an advantage in this thing. The most important jet is the one that has a small cabin behind the cockpit with beds and a galley and poo poo in it every jet should have that imo that way pilots never have to leave the aircraft
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Jun 11, 2015 20:25
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Moridin920 posted:yea I'll stop Post your latest purchase made in China and I'll forgive you.
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Jun 11, 2015 20:26
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The most important jet is the jet of blood coming out of my mouth after traveling the distance from a very bad tumor in my gut
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Jun 11, 2015 20:27
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in case of WW3, what would be the best place for a limp wristed academic to live out the rest of his life in peace and relative prosperity? asking for a friend
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Jun 11, 2015 20:27
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