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pathetic little tramp
Dec 12, 2005

by Hillary Clinton's assassins
Fallen Rib
http://www.businessinsider.com/california-labor-commission-rules-uber-drivers-are-employees-2015-6

quote:

If this ruling sticks ... The cost to run the business would skyrocket. Uber would have to seriously downsize the number of drivers it has as partners and provide benefits for them all.

Employees are expensive; tacking on 1 million+ more would be a huge blow to Uber, which was last valued at $50 billion. Companies have to pay social security and medicare taxes for each employee among other things, according to the IRS. They don't have to do any of that for independent contractors.

it turns out having a bunch of employees work for you but calling them 'special-not-employees' doesn't work


okay next idea what if we start a business to sell organs but put in fine print 'entertainment use only' that'll work right.

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The Human Crouton
Sep 20, 2002

Calling Uber drivers employees is retarded. I'm very much against companies using fake contractors that are actually employees, but in this case they really are just contractors.

City of Tampa
May 6, 2007

by zen death robot
they need to figure out some way to let me pay a person for a ride somewhere because gently caress dropping $85 for a 20 minute ride in a taxi

Burt Sexual
Jan 26, 2006

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Switchblade Switcharoo
less rape opportunities

ANIME IS BLOOD
Sep 4, 2008

by zen death robot
uber makes more in China than they do everywhere else in the rest of the world combined, I don't think losing Germany will even register

pathetic little tramp
Dec 12, 2005

by Hillary Clinton's assassins
Fallen Rib
i'm hearing that their lawyers were basically morons of the highest degree and their arguments were terrible poo poo

dad gay. so what
Feb 18, 2003

by FactsAreUseless
you people ruin everything

im going to start a business where i sell cigarettes to children

Illuminti
Dec 3, 2005

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

ANIME IS BLOOD posted:

uber makes more in China than they do everywhere else in the rest of the world combined, I don't think losing Germany will even register

Thanks for the info. What about California? Since that's what the report is about.

penus penus penus
Nov 9, 2014

by piss__donald

The Human Crouton posted:

Calling Uber drivers employees is retarded. I'm very much against companies using fake contractors that are actually employees, but in this case they really are just contractors.

Yeah this is true. Amazing how much lobbying power taxi groups had, hell you can see it in action even in GBS. I don't think the op has heard of the word contractor before.

Noblesse Obliged
Apr 7, 2012

i dont get uber man.

its the only massive multinational corporation that rips off those dumb enough to drive for it, is completely unregulated and escapes paying any taxes

yet progressives will loving defend it to the bitter end.

i dont understand anymore

pathetic little tramp
Dec 12, 2005

by Hillary Clinton's assassins
Fallen Rib
the funniest part of uber's business plan is that they're focussing on switching their workforce to driverless cars as soon as they're able.

you know, because when cars are driverless and you don't therefore need anyone to drive you, ever, there will be a point to getting a taxi

Mr. Stingly
Sep 1, 2001

Satanic cop-killing henchman with a heart of gold
Should have hired Ron LaFlamme.

Vin BioEthanol
Jan 18, 2002

by Ralp
ze statue of liberty is kaput!

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

The Human Crouton posted:

Calling Uber drivers employees is retarded. I'm very much against companies using fake contractors that are actually employees, but in this case they really are just contractors.

they fail several of the contractor tests very obviously

ArbitraryC
Jan 28, 2009
Pick a number, any number
Pillbug

Noblesse Obliged posted:

i dont get uber man.

its the only massive multinational corporation that rips off those dumb enough to drive for it, is completely unregulated and escapes paying any taxes

yet progressives will loving defend it to the bitter end.

i dont understand anymore

It's because most people treat leftism as a trendy fashion statement and would rather focus on pop issues that can score them social points than actually important things.

Concerned Citizen
Jul 22, 2007
Ramrod XTreme

pathetic little tramp posted:

the funniest part of uber's business plan is that they're focussing on switching their workforce to driverless cars as soon as they're able.

you know, because when cars are driverless and you don't therefore need anyone to drive you, ever, there will be a point to getting a taxi

maybe you don't want to own a car?

City of Tampa
May 6, 2007

by zen death robot

Noblesse Obliged posted:

i dont get uber man.

its the only massive multinational corporation that rips off those dumb enough to drive for it, is completely unregulated and escapes paying any taxes

yet progressives will loving defend it to the bitter end.

i dont understand anymore

it makes taxis accessible to people that don't have tons of expendable cash. It's nice to get a ride home from a game without having to spend a ridiculous amount of money or risk a DUI.

funeral home DJ
Apr 21, 2003


Pillbug

Jonny 290 posted:

they fail several of the contractor tests very obviously

Can someone link to the contractor test stuff because I can't remember which ones they gently caress up on but I'm pretty sure it's the same poo poo that FedEx got in trouble for when calling their drivers contractors.

spud
Aug 27, 2003

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

City of Tampa posted:

they need to figure out some way to let me pay a person for a ride somewhere because gently caress dropping $85 for a 20 minute ride in a taxi

Bang on people's windows and wave money in their faces.

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

City of Tampa posted:

it makes taxis accessible to people that don't have tons of expendable cash. It's nice to get a ride home from a game without having to spend a ridiculous amount of money or risk a DUI.

its also really nice to have a vast pool of labor that you dont have to actually treat like human beings, this ruling is a terrible blow to the capitalist spirit of america

or at least its balls

Noblesse Obliged
Apr 7, 2012

City of Tampa posted:

it makes taxis accessible to people that don't have tons of expendable cash. It's nice to get a ride home from a game without having to spend a ridiculous amount of money or risk a DUI.

so instead of using mechanisms we already have in place to regulate taxis and subsidize public transit you will hand over all for-hire cars to a dubious shadow company with no accountability and pays nothing into the cities in which they operate?

big business man
Sep 30, 2012

Noblesse Obliged posted:

so instead of using mechanisms we already have in place to regulate taxis and subsidize public transit you will hand over all for-hire cars to a dubious shadow company with no accountability and pays nothing into the cities in which they operate?

I think you missed the part about disruption

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

The Human Crouton posted:

Calling Uber drivers employees is retarded. I'm very much against companies using fake contractors that are actually employees, but in this case they really are just contractors.
If you tell people exactly how to do their jobs then they aren't a contractor under any labor law, hope this helps

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

Noblesse Obliged posted:

yet progressives will loving defend it to the bitter end.

something something new economy

Alien Sex Manual
Dec 14, 2010

is not a sandwich

ANIME IS BLOOD posted:

uber makes more in China than they do everywhere else in the rest of the world combined, I don't think losing Germany will even register

California, Germany is truly a hotbed of Uber activity. You may want to rethink your statement.

ArbitraryC
Jan 28, 2009
Pick a number, any number
Pillbug

City of Tampa posted:

it makes taxis accessible to people that don't have tons of expendable cash. It's nice to get a ride home from a game without having to spend a ridiculous amount of money or risk a DUI.
Thats sorta like saying sweatshops make clothing accesible to poor people

tetsuo
May 12, 2001

I am a shaman, magician

Ripoff posted:

Can someone link to the contractor test stuff because I can't remember which ones they gently caress up on but I'm pretty sure it's the same poo poo that FedEx got in trouble for when calling their drivers contractors.
I don't know about the test but some guy summed up the court findings :

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9732231

quote:

1) Drivers providing their own cars is not a strong factor - pizza delivery employees also drive their own cars.
2) Uber "control the tools that drivers use" by regulating the newness of the car.
3) Uber exercises extensive control over vetting and hiring drivers and requires extensive personal information from drivers.
4) Uber alone sets prices, and tipping is discouraged, so there is no mechanism for driver (as "contractor") to set prices.
5) Plaintiff driver only provided her time and car. "Plaintiff's work did not entail any 'managerial' skills that could affect profit or loss."
6) Drivers cannot subcontract (presumably negating Uber's position as a "lead generation" tool for contractors).
Sorry that these are out of order. Look on Page 9 of court documents for full text.

#4 and #6 especially seem damning.

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008

City of Tampa posted:

it makes taxis accessible to people that don't have tons of expendable cash. It's nice to get a ride home from a game without having to spend a ridiculous amount of money or risk a DUI.



I can understand your feeling, however make sure you take care of yourself! Getting that drunk is not good for your body you know, be careful!

CISMALES DID 9-11
Jun 5, 2002

chaotic good STEM major; INTJ
im lebrons dick

City of Tampa
May 6, 2007

by zen death robot

Flesh Forge posted:

its also really nice to have a vast pool of labor that you dont have to actually treat like human beings, this ruling is a terrible blow to the capitalist spirit of america

or at least its balls

that's where it gets weird; uber drivers should not be driving as their main occupation. If they are full time taxi drivers then yes, they should be employees with benefits and all that.

Outside of that though I think it's A-OK for people to want to make a little extra money in their spare time by giving rides to people, and an app that facilitates this should be allowed to exist. Uber is treading a fine line here and they probably do need to be reeled back a bit.

Noblesse Obliged posted:

so instead of using mechanisms we already have in place to regulate taxis and subsidize public transit you will hand over all for-hire cars to a dubious shadow company with no accountability and pays nothing into the cities in which they operate?

I just want a method to exist that allows me to say "hey I need a ride to the airport and I have $25" and then someone that has nothing better to do can see that and come give me a ride to the airport. It doesn't need to be a full time job for someone, or something that builds a multi-million dollar company, or something that results in campaign contributions.

I just need a ride to the airport and I know that there are people out there that will provide this for much less than the $75 that Yellow Cab wants. I'd love for subsidized public transportation to exist (or any decent public transportation in my area at all) but I'm not holding my breath for that to happen.

Bro Dad
Mar 26, 2010


ANIME IS BLOOD posted:

uber makes more in China than they do everywhere else in the rest of the world combined, I don't think losing Germany will even register

theyre actually in trouble in china because they put over a million fake drivers on their books and chinese taxi drivers are rioting over the lost business

expect them to be considered a poisonous foreign element and expelled while a worse chinese company takes over their market share

CISMALES DID 9-11
Jun 5, 2002

chaotic good STEM major; INTJ
all companies should be forced to pay me 50-60 grand a year so i can sit around and watch anime and stuff because it's my right as a human being to get things for nothing

big business man
Sep 30, 2012

Bro Dad posted:

theyre actually in trouble in china because they put over a million fake drivers on their books and chinese taxi drivers are rioting over the lost business

expect them to be considered a poisonous foreign element and expelled while a worse chinese company takes over their market share

lmao uber really is trying their best to qualify in the 'scummiest former startup' competition

Mao Zedong Thot
Oct 16, 2008


oh wow our yuppie service economy of uber-for-x is actually built on the backs of exploited poors? WHO KNEW!!

:orders indigent mexican house cleaner from slick looking app to clean up my outrage vomit:

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

City of Tampa posted:

that's where it gets weird; uber drivers should not be driving as their main occupation. If they are full time taxi drivers then yes, they should be employees with benefits and all that.

There are types of employees that are not full-time/full-benefits, and there are legal responsibilities that business have to those employees even if they're not providing health care or whatever, and Uber neatly sidesteps all that expensive unimportant bullshit.

lorn Wayne
Jan 7, 2006

:staredog::meowth::pipe:
if this results in fewer startups calling their service the next 'uber of x', then it might all be worth it.

was at a business pitching event recently and one startup unironically called themselves the 'uber of cooking utensils'.

Mao Zedong Thot
Oct 16, 2008


CISMALES DID 9-11 posted:

all companies should be forced to pay me 50-60 grand a year so i can sit around and watch anime and stuff because it's my right as a human being to get things for nothing

the dream of every basic income advocate

CISMALES DID 9-11
Jun 5, 2002

chaotic good STEM major; INTJ
im gonna make a startup that combines "uber for x" and "put stuff in a box and mail it to you once a month"

ANIME IS BLOOD
Sep 4, 2008

by zen death robot

Glaucus atlanticus posted:

California, Germany is truly a hotbed of Uber activity. You may want to rethink your statement.

eh, same difference. lol

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Mao Zedong Thot
Oct 16, 2008


lorn Wayne posted:

if this results in fewer startups calling their service the next 'uber of x', then it might all be worth it.

was at a business pitching event recently and one startup unironically called themselves the 'uber of cooking utensils'.

KITCHN DRAWRR - UBER FOR COOKING UTENSILS

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