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Lockback posted:You are right he is bad off-the-ball, and in particular he needs to learn how to react and make the right pass when plays break down. You don't ask a player with that kind of talent to play off the ball.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:05
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So I missed the post game stuff last night. Anything as awesome from Kerr as this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0e6npgMHJo
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Jun 17, 2015 19:06
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dokmo posted:You don't ask a player with that kind of talent to play off the ball. But you already have LeBron and Kyrie as primary play-makers. Wiggins wouldn't have many opportunities to handle the ball. ---- Ryno is a quality player but his rebounding is putrid compared to Love's.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:07
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Lockback posted:He's a young guy who just played the most professional basketball of his life and never had teams spending hours scheming on ways to make him look bad. Now that he has that under his belt, Klay will be just fine.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:11
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dokmo posted:You don't ask a player with that kind of talent to play off the ball. That's what he'd be doing with the Cavs and it doesn't fit his current skillset very well.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:11
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Who is Ryno?
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Jun 17, 2015 19:12
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Libertine posted:Who is Ryno? Ryan Anderson
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Jun 17, 2015 19:12
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I guess I don't understand why people are so cool with trading away a player who makes no money, has a long contract, and has a good chance at becoming a franchise player.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:12
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MourningView posted:That's what he'd be doing with the Cavs and it doesn't fit his current skillset very well. Just like LeBron had to play off the ball with Wade. These good players make it work.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:14
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dokmo posted:I guess I don't understand why people are so cool with trading away a player who makes no money, has a long contract, and has a good chance at becoming a franchise player. They already have the best player in basketball; they don't need a guy with a chance to possibly become a franchise player down the raod. They need guys who can help them win a title in the short term. If they didn't have LeBron then I would call the trade stupid, but having him at this point in his career changes their goals.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:14
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dokmo posted:I guess I don't understand why people are so cool with trading away a player who makes no money, has a long contract, and has a good chance at becoming a franchise player. If a crystal ball told me LeBron would keep being dominant for 10 more years, I guess I might not have done the trade, and if I'm the Timberwolves, I'm very happy with the trade. But for the Cavs specific set of circumstances, I'm cool w/ that trade I think?
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Jun 17, 2015 19:15
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Also Lebron is more than happy to play off ball. He was more than willing to let Kyrie do whatever he wanted.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:16
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dokmo posted:Just like LeBron had to play off the ball with Wade. These good players make it work. That was often really awkward and likely would have been even moreso if they were both rookies trying to get used to NBA basketball rather than established guys in their primes and who had already developed their games. LeBron by that point had developed a solid outside jumper, has always been a next-level great playmaker who loves to share the ball, and Wade is one of the best off the ball cutters ever. I don't think Wiggins at this stage in his career is really comparable and by the time he will be LeBron is gonna be too old for it to matter. Wiggins definitely sets them up better for the future, but if you have a 30 year old LeBron with a billion miles on his odometer that's probably not your primary concern. MourningView fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 19:17
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Dexo posted:So I missed the post game stuff last night. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-auYzCs9YyI
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Jun 17, 2015 19:26
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dokmo posted:I guess I don't understand why people are so cool with trading away a player who makes no money, has a long contract, and has a good chance at becoming a franchise player. Because two to three years worth of an almost guaranteed title shot is better than a pretty-good odds on a deepish playoff run after 2-4 years player development ?
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Jun 17, 2015 19:27
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I guess if I was in the position where LeBron said he would come to my team (for a 2 year deal, with player option on year 2) under the condition that I trade the #1 overall pick for Kevin Love, I would have a much harder making that deal than you guys. Not to say I wouldn't do the deal, it's just not a gimme, especially it means that Lebron takes over GMing duties. And wants to leave this year or next. Here's a little experiment. You have the #1 overall pick in this year's draft. Which players would you trade that pick for? Obviously this depends on the state of whatever team you're imagining. My list has six names on it
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Jun 17, 2015 19:27
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I also think there's an assumption LeBron is going to resign with Cleveland in perpetuity and the 2 years was just because of Cap reasons. It'll be absolutely shocking if he leaves Cleveland again instead of ascending to God-Emperor of the Midwest status like Leto II
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Jun 17, 2015 19:29
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morestuff posted:Ryan Anderson I refuse to believe that Ryan Anderson has a nickname. dokmo posted:I guess I don't understand why people are so cool with trading away a player who makes no money, has a long contract, and has a good chance at becoming a franchise player. Agreed, and I think performance/contract is the most important thing in building a contender. I was against the trade then and am still against the trade now because trading away any #1 pick on a rookie deal who has franchise potential is always a bad move. The Love injury just re-opens the debate with hindsight because the fact that the trade ended up having zero impact on their immediate championship run when that was the whole basis for it makes it look much worse. No one knows what will happen next year with another set of moves, another year of minutes and injury potential. And one also has to think that an extremely gassed Lebron could have probably used a pair of 20-year old legs to back up some of his minutes in these late round games.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:30
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Libertine posted:I refuse to believe that Ryan Anderson has a nickname. They have the same flexibility with Love they would have had with Wiggins. Lebron + Kyrie + Tristan Thompson = Over the cap regardless. If you are in contention and willing to pay the tax, a guy making 5.5 million vs 15 million isn't that big of a difference.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:33
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EvanTH posted:I also think there's an assumption LeBron is going to resign with Cleveland in perpetuity and the 2 years was just because of Cap reasons. It'll be absolutely shocking if he leaves Cleveland again instead of ascending to God-Emperor of the Midwest status like Leto II Yeah convincing him to come back was the hard part, now that he did it and made a huge deal out of coming home it's going to be hard for him to leave. Especially if they put a good team around him, which they'll have if they re-sign Love. The 2 year seems like mostly a product of him knowing the cap was going up, with maybe a small sliver of wanting a way out if things really cratered.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:34
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quote:Here's a little experiment. You have the #1 overall pick in this year's draft. Which players would you trade that pick for? Obviously this depends on the state of whatever team you're imagining. According to bball ref, on average the #1 pick gives you 26.5 WS over the first 4 seasons. As a Portland fan, I think any all-NBA player would make Portland a favorite, so I would trade the #1 pick for pretty much any of those players.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:34
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If I'm Utah there's a bunch of dudes I'd trade the number 1 pick for, but that is because I already have the best center in basketball and don't need Towns (they would probably actually have either traded Favors or taken Russell)
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Jun 17, 2015 19:36
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Illinois Smith posted:Klay Thompson in a nutshell So Klay is a real life version of how I've always imagined Manny Ramirez to be.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:37
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Lockback posted:They have the same flexibility with Love they would have had with Wiggins. Lebron + Kyrie + Tristan Thompson = Over the cap regardless. If you are in contention and willing to pay the tax, a guy making 5.5 million vs 15 million isn't that big of a difference. True, though with Wiggins Cleveland would be more willing to send out Haywood this summer for more salary.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:38
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:True, though with Wiggins Cleveland would be more willing to send out Haywood this summer for more salary. They wouldn't be able to take on salary, would they? And who is trading anything of value for Haywood? Expiring contracts aren't big trade chips anymore.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:42
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Lockback posted:They have the same flexibility with Love they would have had with Wiggins. Lebron + Kyrie + Tristan Thompson = Over the cap regardless. If you are in contention and willing to pay the tax, a guy making 5.5 million vs 15 million isn't that big of a difference. When the cap raises to like $90m/team in 16-17 your cap would look exactly the same as it looks now with Tristan making Love money and Wiggins making Thompson money and not tying up double maxes in 2 guys who play the same position. It's a huge difference in terms of flexibility, both short-term and long-term.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:44
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@ESPNSteinLine: Story going online now: ESPN sources say Warriors and David Lee's camp have resolved to work together to find new home for former All-Star Purebred housebroken post scorer free 2 good home
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Jun 17, 2015 19:53
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David Lee makes too much money but he seems like a cool dude. He handled that being benched thing super well.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:58
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He's one of my favorite Warriors players, and I hope he'll find a good situation. He's a good guy and still a very good player.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:00
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Instead of ring chasing, David Lee is going to spend the twilight of his career double double chasing.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:01
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The Warriors probably want Marvin Williams and Matt Barnes, right
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Jun 17, 2015 20:12
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They really should trade Lee for Durant so OKC can get something for him before they lose him for nothing.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:14
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morestuff posted:The Warriors probably want Marvin Williams and Matt Barnes, right
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Jun 17, 2015 20:17
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The real question is why you'd want to play Lee next to Big Al.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:18
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MourningView posted:David Lee makes too much money but he seems like a cool dude. He handled that being benched thing super well. He was extremely humble about it and had no resent about getting limited minutes. I really want to see him get double doubles on another playoff caliber team. He still has gas in the tank.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:26
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Are we really already retconning that the Cavs were supposed to win a championship immediately?
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Jun 17, 2015 20:27
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Illinois Smith posted:The real question is why you'd want to play Lee next to Big Al. Lee is basically a better Zeller on offense. Defense would be rough but I assume MKG can cover up everything.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:28
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Noctone posted:Are we really already retconning that the Cavs were supposed to win a championship immediately? Westgate Las Vegas SuperBook championship odds October 2014: 2014-2015 NBA CHAMPIONSHIP CAVALIERS 5-2 SPURS 3-1 THUNDER 9-2 BULLS 6-1 CLIPPERS 8-1 WARRIORS 25-1 WIZARDS 25-1 ROCKETS 30-1 LeBron is really good and everyone knows it and has known it.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:35
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Libertine posted:I refuse to believe that Ryan Anderson has a nickname. He has two, actually! The other one is The Flamethrower.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:36
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I could see Sacramento jumping on Lee if it gets Landry or Thompson out the door, although buying low on name players is a Pete thing and don't know what Divac wants
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Jun 17, 2015 20:41
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