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  • Locked thread
Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Hmm, looks like according to the predator map video there are 5 big districts or something in the game (at least for riddler trophies). I wonder exactly how much that means, and if we're gonna be island hopping. It seems like most of the gameplay they showed is on only one of the islands. Wondering if that Gotham skyline they keep showing off is accessible or not.

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Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Azubah posted:

I was on the fence about getting the season pass until this new came out, I really hate the retail exclusive preorder crap.
The season pass is still utter poo poo, unless you get it at a discount. They honestly still haven't announced enough to justify the cost.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
The Arkham Knight is literally just Nolan North in a costume.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

The crime scenes don't seem to be the same as Origins', but like a better done version of City's.
I'm mostly fine with that. Origins' were great too because it required you to study an entire diorama of a scene. Wish the both were combined but this time around isn't too bad either. The only problem with the Origins ones is they were completely linear.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

ethanol posted:

just play on easy/normal and you'll be fine

Yeah the problem is the combat and predator systems really shine in challenge maps.... and there aren't really any proper challenge maps.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Basebf555 posted:

Is that really true? I unlocked a combat challenge last night and I assumed there'd be a bunch more to unlock. They've always been unlockable, never available right from the start.
It sounds like the season pass will have challenge maps proper. Which is dumb. I could maybe excuse not having all playable characters due the actual content in the game but not even that.

the AR challengers are:
-4 combat challenges, but none seem to be waved based (i have 3/4 unlocked)
-4 predator challenges - 3 are what you expect (each medal is different conditions) and 1 is purely speed
-5 racing challenges - probably a mix of single lap/full race time
-4 tank mode challenges - a mix of points or survival (don't get hit once)
-6 mixed batmobile challenges - so either combat + driving against time (clear zones) or APC chases or fast cobra clears, etc.

The car stuff I think is mostly fine, the combat predator stuff is somewhat disappointing coming from having like 5-7 maps or so and getting extreme variations (more enemy variety) and being able to use modifiers.

It's a shame cause this is the stuff I see in the open world late game or in post-game:


-2 regular brutes
-2 medics
-2 swords
-2 stun rods
-2 batons
-2 guns
-2 shields
-2 regular dudes

That there is easily like wave 4 extreme map kind of stuff you might see in AC or AO (well, minus the guns)

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

CharlestonJew posted:

I don't know if they tell you this in game but you can immediately transition from a Juggle Strike into a Critical Beat Down move, it looks really cool and if you do it on a thug that's already knocked out by the first hit Batman just flips them over and slams them down on the ground.
There's also countering a sword dude who does a wall run or something and jumps at you with his sword, Batman loving jumps up and just straight up counterattacks him.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Ometeotl posted:

I wonder how many more excuses Rocksteady can think of to evacuate an entire city of civilians.
well they aren't making any more Batman games, so none

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Calaveron posted:

How the gently caress am I supposed to survive a fight against six cobras and that cloudburst motherfucker? I manage to kill 3 but then the tanks become super fast and are able to home in on me and flank me and poo poo and bake Batman in his own tinfoil
Be very patient, especially if you don't have the cobra lure upgrade. You'll just have to hit and run.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

poptart_fairy posted:

The Batmobile is my buddy and I will fight anyone who besmirches it.

What's the final tool you need to collect all the Riddler trophies, anyway? Or is it something that can't be done until post game?
It's either the freeze grenade or just somehow randomly you need to get a hold of the programming chip for the riddler-bots to let you control them with the voice gadget. Not exactly sure how you get the last one exactly, seems like you just have to get it from fighting one in free roam, but I didn't get one right away.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Perry Normal posted:

Overheard goon chatter - "My significant other is a human rights lawyer. He thinks I'm on a business trip."

A gay goon, that's pretty neat.
I thought that was a neat touch. Good thing you're ready to ruin his relationship by showing up and basically punching all his teeth out. Explain that business trip to your partner!

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

JackDarko posted:

There's something loving wrong with me because I enjoy the tank combat.
There's not much to it, and the game overdoes it by making you go tank mode all the time. All you do is strafe back and forth spraying the vulcan until the 60mm spins back up and you dodge lines and shoot missiles and hit another button to make a special attack every so often.

At least the Cobra tank stuff was kinda interesting, it felt like predator mode with the Batmobile.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Feenix posted:

I think this is crucial and needs to go into the OP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BcX6BJ3_EI

I was wondering how long it would take for that.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Infinitum posted:

Thugs are just the best post game.

Oh oh, look out he's coming to get us in the Waynemobile.
I wouldn't want to get hit by one of those Waynearangs


:allears:
Yeah I love the post game lines so much

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

SonicRulez posted:

Combat is alright, but I feel like they added maybe one too many enemy types. It's to the point where if a thug has anything I just spam special takedowns on them. Big guys, big guys with electro fists, whatever. Because otherwise it starts to be a clusterfuck. Usually Batman has good tracking and like, if you do a takedown, he'll home in on the biggest threats. But not always. I've definitely done Dual Takedowns with Nightwing on the standard mook standing right next to a big guy. Speaking of, the DLC better include a lot more of that. The fact that you can't replay Dual Predator without replaying the entire story is CRIMINAL. To the point where I'd take an entire Arkham game where you always have Robin (maybe back when Dick or Jason were Robin) in dual play.
I would argue in a proper challenge map situation the game would throw tons of unarmed filler at you unless it was something like a gimmick wave (e.g. all ninjas, all knives, all stun rod waves in some extreme AC maps). It's just that the game doesn't. Most of the mixed variety comes from the militia anyway. Regular rioters or thugs rarely are so mixed types unless it's scripted.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

plape tickler posted:

Is there another way to break soft wooden paneling other than the batmobile? Batclaw doesn't work and I don't get the prompt to break it when floating in front of it. Can't line up the batmobile either.
If it's on the ground, a punch or jump through will break it easily. If it's somewhere you can't reach on a platform the best bet is to just glide through it or if you can, line launcher through it (they really underused the line launcher this time around).

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Dogen posted:

Sounds like grabbing Man Bat on the way down screwed you up. Probably they shouldn't let you do side quests while the city is covered in toxin.
I checked during my game and all the sidequests are locked out. If Man-Bat was still patrolling the skies that sounds like a bug.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

MinibarMatchman posted:

that excavator sequence was one of the worst loving things I've ever sat through in any game in years but at least everything else for the last half was great
Honestly at that point and after it was over I was surprised there wasn't an honest to goodness combat brawl boss fight. You had the tank mode boss fight, and also the racing mode boss fight, and then there was that predator room boss fight.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

SonicRulez posted:

Dick is older, his own man, and....better than Tim. Yes I said it. That's why their whole plotline is "You're my favorite son. Go to Bludhaven and be their Batman. I'm prolly gonna die. Love you." Meanwhile Tim is the baby of the family and has had the least training, so Batman is more like "Please wait in this cage while I go do things. Sorry bout Babs." Made sense to me. I wish they'd put more Nightwing in the game. Or you know what? More Batfamily period. I get that it's supposed to center around Batman and him actually having Robin and Nightwing around in Knight shows how dire the situation is, but I feel like it would be a stronger moment if we spent more time with them. In Asylum, it made sense that Batman was alone since Joker specifically forbade any capes from showing up, so all you had was Oracle's voice to guide you. Helped the atmosphere too. But in City I felt like it was a little convenient for Batman to send Robin away for DLC and basically pretend Nightwing didn't exist. Origins went too far back, so there was no Robin at all. It comes back to my issue with Jason. Yes I'm still spoiling it despite the number of people who've flat out said it in the thread. But I think this game (despite being amazing) kinda hinged on me caring about Barbara, Tim, Dick, and really everyone in the Batfamily besides Alfred (oddly). But this is the only game we spent longer than 2 minutes with ANY of them outside Oracle's voice in the past few games. An opportunity was missed. I feel for everyone who doesn't/has never read comics and thus couldn't care about those guys.
Origins at least had plenty of Bruce-Alfred interactions and was the better for it.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Gatac posted:

Does anyone else have trouble getting three stars in the Predator challenge Under The Pale Moonlight on PC? Specifically, I can't get the star for taking the drone controller down last. At first I thought it was because I hacked the drone and took it out of his control, then I restricted myself to just blinding it, then the last time I didn't interact with the drone at all, and it still didn't pop. Any clues?
Same here. You probably have to KO him before he ditches the drone somehow. Which means time to get creative I guess, at least until they fix it.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Gatac posted:

I actually just got it to work by doing a silent takedown on him when he was the last guy left and his drone had already self-destructed by itself. Didn't otherwise interfere with him or the drone at all. If the difference in scoring really comes down to a silent takedown vs. a glide kick and ground pound, then the requirement really should be clearer, but give a try and see if it works for you.
Interesting. I'll give that a try. I decided to gently caress around with him by making him shock incap himself on an ammo box the first time then I think the second time I came in to beatdown his face off. Yeah, that sounds weird if a silent takedown is what the game wants.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Knormal posted:

Well, one of my Riddler trophies is glitched. No matter how many times I do the tower out in front of the orphanage I never get a pickup prompt when I walk up to the ball. Hopefully a patch will fix this, I really don't want to have to start all the way over just to be able to get the 100% ending. Anyone else seen this bug? I haven't been able to Google up any other instances.

Are you on PC? I think I heard it had something to do with unlocking your framerate and the physics going wonky or something? (I personally didn't have any problems on PC, unlocked FPS when I did it at the time). If you're on console then, not sure why that would happen.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

l33t b4c0n posted:

I'm playing the PC version, collected 100% of the Riddler trophies, gotten all 69 stars in AR challenges, and am just finishing a New Game +. Yes, I am a masochist. The only two achievements left besides the New Game + completion are "A Leap of Faith" and "Blunt Trauma" which are total bullshit since the game doesn't have statistics tracking jumps or stealth finishers. I generally enjoy achievements, but I like to have some ability to track them. I've done at least 30 frickin jumps across at least 12 unique ramps, and the achievement hasn't popped.

Having nearly 100%'d the game, I have to say the City was much better. This game feels both stripped down and crammed too full.

Melee brawls seem much scarcer in this game. They introduce a ton of new enemies that add nothing to the gameplay - looking at you soldiers who shock each other to electrify themselves. The fights just don't last as long, and that was something I loved in City - the long running fights where my combos can get into the hundreds.

Predator Challenges suck in this. Again, they add a ton of new enemies that pose no challenge at all (the drone controller STANDS THERE while his drone flies harmlessly beneath vantage points). They give you WAY too many gadgets, taking any challenge out of setting up takedowns.

But the worst offender by far is the loving tank fight. I'm not going to bitch about Cloudburst - that wasn't actually terrible. The problem with the tank fights is not that they're hard, but that they're not FUN. Once you've seen one tank fight, you've seen them all. And then they add Cobra tanks to try to make it a stealth section. The Cobra fights are just amazingly boring. If I'm in a tank, I don't want to be sneaking through alleys. In fact, I think the most fun tank boss is the helicopter drone at Ace Chemicals, and that's literally your first boss fight.

It's a pretty game, and I'm glad to be bashing skulls as Batman again, but it lacks a lot of the charm of the previous games fights. I do hope they add challenge maps in, especially with the tag team modes. Those are perhaps the one improvement in mechanics over the other games, and I'd love to see more of those.
I think combat would be more interesting if there were actual challenge maps and not the 6x6 arenas in AR challenges. I'd suspect we'd get more unarmed filler most waves instead of things like 2 of every unique type + 2 unarmed dudes you run into at checkpoints and stuff. The filler is mostly there to bounce around anyway. Not to mention most of the firefighter/checkpoint fights are in terribly cramped areas and does the camera no favours. The weapon cache fights are decent though.

There also just weren't enough predator challenges or interesting medal conditions. Not to mention you can have so many drat distruptor shots and it basically can do anything in this game, cools down fairly fast, as does smoke (vs. 1 use in AC/AO). I'd just like to see just more predator maps in general and extreme variations of them. The one only timed predator challenge was interesting but I'd like to see all 3 (or 4?) banks each with their own timer as well instead of just the first bank. The layouts of the others are really fun and it's a shame they've gone to waste.

I didn't mind some of the batmobile challenges. I personally hated the Riddler tracks. The race across the city and stop at areas to kill drones was probably the best use of the Batmobile. That or the armoured vehicle chase/takedowns as well. Straight up tank combat was way too monotonous in challenge mode and gave you way too little space to work with most of the time, which I think frustrated a lot of people. Cobra maps were okay once you get the lure, kinda curious why only Bleake and Founders and no Miagami map challenge though.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Is Superman vulnerable to magic or whatever insane comic book canon or something? Just make the bad guys all have magic instead of kryptonite.

Or gently caress it I dunno, stop trying to make Superman games.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Steve2911 posted:

Now that I've hit the post-game wrap up/collectible hunting section I remember why I never like doing this in open world games. It's so drat lonely existing in a static world for so long after the story it's telling has been told. The main thing keeping me going at this point is the new thug dialogue, but even that's already started repeating itself.

It's a very unpleasant, game-y feeling that very few open world games manage to avoid. I think it's the lack of civilians/day to day life that does it. Once the story has been told and the reason for Gotham to be empty is over, it stops feeling like a place and starts feeling like a big, empty toy.
They could do a civilian populated Gotham. Just have it so you have to navigate most places by rooftops or gliding and if you try to drop down into a public area, you automatically get grappling gunned back up to the closest roof. You know, like what happens when you fall into water. It's probably easier than coming up with another contrived reason for why everyone has to leave Gotham.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Narcissus1916 posted:

Is there an upgrade I need for the remote hacking device? Because I have it and did the airship sections, and I'm still unable to hack the sentry guns. I'm talking about the turret thing that scans the ground... like in the terminal velocity predator challenge map.
It's the remote hacking tool (the thing you use to "crack" passwords). It's one button click to work. That lets you blind the turrets. If you want to use the disruptor I believe it only works on undeployed turrets and does something with the person trying to deploy it instead, or maybe forces it to explode or something when its set up. I never really used it.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Brightman posted:

I think most of the good comics were mentioned already, I really enjoyed Death of the Family, can't get my friend to read it though because he hates Joker's "faceless" design. If you want to follow up on Jason Todd stuff there's A Death in the Family and Under the Red Hood, although the ending of that gets comic book crazy as gently caress, animated film did it better, I think the current story line went with that retcon too. Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth is good too, but the art is divisive as all get out in my experience, lot of influence on the first game obviously.

Anyway my friend has determined that the big super kick move after you do the super cape stun seems to screw with the thug skeletons and warp them more than most things. He posted this earlier on Facebook:



Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

redbackground posted:

Yup. Once I realized just how often I'd be using Batmobile weaponry in the same kinds of fights, I made sure to prioritize them.
My train of thought was after seeing how many moves you start off with and how used I am to the combat/predator stuff, the upgrades were useless or wouldn't make as huge of an impact, even the armour for Batman. The Batmobile on the other hand kept getting a lot of use and was fairly new so I decided on those upgrades more often than not to give myself a little more breathing room.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Emron posted:

Some of these trophies are going to be a pain in the butt--5 perfect critical shots in a row without taking damage? That is going to be really hard.
If you're on PC it's not too difficult, just switch to mouse aim if you're on a controller. Luckily you can score them on AR challengers, so untouchable is probably your best bet.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
The only upgrades you should only go for when you've nothing else to spend are the disruptor - stun sticks and disruptor - drone gun upgrades. Those should be the last of the last. Especially the latter, why would you use it, except for comedic purposes?

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
The drone gun distruptor is actually the one for the tanks. 8 Waynetech points. Better just spend those on the Batmobile armour upgrades, roll up and shoot the drat thing instead.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

CJacobs posted:

Man, going back to Arkham Asylum is such a refresher from this game. Arkham Asylum has, I think, four enemy types. This game has twelve. I really really like this game but they went super batshit overboard with how many gadgets/moves Batman has and how many types of enemies there are and the tactics they require.

edit: Asylum has:

- Normal mooks
- Knife guys (require a cape stun)
- Shield guys (require a stun/block break)
- Zapper guys (require a dodge or otherwise attack from behind)

Occasionally there are titan enemies but they're mostly for boss fights.

This game has:

- Normal mooks
- Knife guys (require a cape stun)
- Shield guys (require a stun/block break)
- Zapper guys (require a dodge or otherwise attack from behind)
- Medics (I won't count their resurrection/lightning-imbuing as multiple enemy types here)
- Ninjas (don't even make sense in this game)
- Drone guys
- Tall guys (require a stun + beat down)
- Tall shield guys (require a big stun + beat down)
- Tall zapper guys (require a backflip + stun + beat down)
- Tall knife guys (the same as the normal tall guys except they can do knife attacks)

And at least one I can't remember off the top of my head. Half of that list just feels so unnecessary and cluttered.
If we're talking about for combat, then your list is close. Knife is usually rioter only, not Militia. Militia I guess get ninjas. Blade takedown timings are drastically different from AC/AO too. Knife and sword (3 and 4 taps)

You can also quickfire REC to disable the stunsticks temporarily. REC vs shield or brute causes them to swipe wildly around them.

Drone dudes are predator only.

Brutes (the big tall guys) require a beatdown or 2 takedown combos (Y+B/Triangle+Circle). Shield brutes actually need an aerial attack INTO a beatdown.

The more advanced brutes are just variations on the same - shield/stun stick/blades. The most elite ones swap inbetween mid fight but have the same methods to deal with. Remember if you use a hard counter against a specific enemy type (aerial attack vs. shield, beatdown vs. brutes) you get invincibility frames, whereas you don't if you just do them on the 'wrong' type.

Also to note if you pick up a weapon (bat, pipe, etc.) then you can just basic strike - it goes through all enemy types.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

theflyingorc posted:

You people are playing a lot more cautiously than I do, apparently. Predator challenges are basically "how fast can I do this"

Also, I finished every challenge room in City and I never got used to the timing on countering brutes in Arkham Knight.
Brutes in AK are on their own rhythm or something which is why you'll occasionally get smacked coming out of a move or something. Your best bet is to just constantly dodge around them, KO them fast (beatdown will give you a good 2 seconds or so of invinciblity frames or queue 2 takedowns on them) or CC them.


Timeless Appeal posted:

I like Catwoman's reaction to Riddler's bullshit. What's the point of actually tracking down the trophies if he's just going to indefinitely hangout in a pit anyway?

The Riddler stuff worked in Asylum because it was a smaller space. Also, the riddles seemed better. They were rarely fun in City, and I wish Knight had just replaced them entirely with the races and death traps.
AA Riddler trophies were mostly just placed behind vents and walls. A good portion of AC's trophies required you to think about how to use your gadgets like the remote batarang, line launcher, explosive gel or even the shock blast dive bomb in interesting ways.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Snark posted:

Yeah I was annoyed by the cornhole-a-Cobra combat after a while. I get that they were going for Tank Predator mode to mix up the Batmobile combat. But there really aren't enough tricks to pull to make it satisfying. You either luck out with a tank that is far from his buddies, or you get the Cobra lure to draw one out. That's about it.

In contrast, this is the most fun I've had with the regular predator mode in all four games. To be honest, I tended to cheese them from Asylum to Origins. I did a shitload of Inverted Takedowns to the point where I spent a lot of time cutting mooks down just so I could string up another. AK gives you so many options that you can change strategies on the fly. I'd go in for some kind of basic takedown and find I could pull off a Fear chain, or wind up close enough to a drone guy to hack his controller and take out three at once. And any disruptor takedown that made goons take themselves out was great.
Predator is way too easy in AK seeing as some of the old moves from AO/AC are now silent by default rather than immediately loud and the distruptor/smoke grenade being able to cooldown even in challenge rooms makes it a breeze. Fear takedowns also mean you can easily smoke 3-6 guys in no time flat.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

CJacobs posted:

Is there a way to turn off this game's chromatic aberration? It makes everything look blurry including batman, the focus point of the camera (where there should be no chromatic aberration in the first place if we're pretending the game's camera works like a real-life one) and though it's I guess cinematic that way, it looks like crap.

edit: Looked it up myself and no, there is not. Unfortunate.


Darn.
You'll have to wait for the next PC patch to even try to attempt turning off some of the post stuff. Motion blur is doable though, but yeah.

Camera industry spends millions upon millions of dollars to get rid of chromatic aberration; video game devs spend your precious CPU/GPU cycles loving up your screen.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Proposition Joe posted:

I'm going to laugh if the DLC ends with Barbara getting shot in the spine by the Joker.
I'd be funnier if they let you free-roam afterwards but it's just as Barbara in the wheelchair. Bonus points if you can only free-roam the clock tower.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

poptart_fairy posted:

She's shown as proactive, dangerous and the driving force behind Batman's work in a lot of cases though. She's only "helpless" in a single scene where she's bound and watched by several armed men after previously showing she was fully capable of causing a heavy vehicle to crash by herself. Hell, within minutes of getting out of that situation she's instrumental in fighting off the remains of Scarecrow's army.

I don't see it.
Yeah it's more a factor of comic book/video game level writing where if someone needs to be helpless if the plot demands if then they go limp without objection despite all evidence to the contrary.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Rirse posted:

So...how many people in this thread is really the Riddler?
Just one.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Steve2911 posted:

Where in the hell does he go anyway? Is he immediately captured and detained for most of the game or is he just wondering around Gotham all night? If the latter, why didn't Batman track him down and stop him within 15 minutes?
I was more worried how he could even find cover during the Cloudburst fear toxin sequence.

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Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

poptart_fairy posted:

Harley definitely felt like something they quickly threw together for pre-orders rather than any meaningful content. I hear the Red Hood stuff is similar.
They were promising Harley for like a year almost, so that's probably more disappointing or expected.

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