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Sure it was probably horrible for the people involved, but as someone said back in the day, at least it stopped the firebombing. Like some Tokyo runs caused about as much casualties as a single nuke. And there were plenty of those. While terror bombing is a really ineffective strategy to demoralise the enemy according to stats, IIRC the Japs had their military factories in residential zones, making it impossible to not do terror bombing. In this light I'd say that many lives (both US and Japanese) were saved by dropping the nukes. This is how I see it.
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Jun 18, 2015 15:45
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Excellent, insightful commentary. I'm impressed to see something so well thought out so soon after the event.
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Jun 18, 2015 15:48
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Rly makes u think
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Jun 18, 2015 15:49
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Go watch Threads, OP.
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Jun 18, 2015 15:49
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Japan invented anime to get revenge on us
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Jun 18, 2015 15:50
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Nooner posted:Japan invented anime to get revenge on us See now this on the other hand was a really lovely thing because this affects THE ENTIRE WORLD and not just USA. E: Though I suppose it's a sort of a desperate last resort, since the whole setup required them to swamp themselves with anime, too. With this in mind, maybe the nukes were bad after all. Hmm.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:20
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I'd say you need to re-read some poo poo because the Japanese were bombed out to gently caress already before the nukes were dropped. The air force commander was like 'yeah we're just targeting little wood pedestrian bridges now; literally everything of value has been blown up twice. We stopped escorting bombers because we have air superiority and all their AA is gone.' So 'at least it stopped the firebombing' is kind of a non-statement because there wasn't anything left to firebomb anyway.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:23
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Expected this thread to be about Isreal and excitedly turned on the news.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:27
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You're gay and retarded. Gaytarded. The most gaytarded, comtepmtable human on the planet. I hope somebody drops a nuke on your mother's fat, oily oval office (What I mean to say is that I hope she is bombarded by black and cuban cocks until her fat pussy gives out.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:26
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unironically gently caress the japanese
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Jun 18, 2015 19:26
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Japan is going to sink under the sea and it's hilarious because they don't seem to be thinking about it really. Some of them are proposing building underwater cities so at least they're somewhat aware I guess.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:29
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Agreed OP. http://www.stripes.com/blogs/the-rumor-doctor/the-rumor-doctor-1.104348/are-purple-hearts-from-1945-still-being-awarded-1.116756 Although to every action there are unintended consequences. The fallout obviously hosed them up mentally and likely is the main cause of poo poo like anime and other Japanese cultural oddities.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:29
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someone once told me people from island countries are generally kind of strange filipinos, hawaiians, japanese, etc. cant say its not true. filipinos are the cool kind of weird though, mostly
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Jun 18, 2015 19:31
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but should Japan be nuked again, op? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=393573255
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Jun 18, 2015 19:32
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The japanese have thousands of years of sacred culture while the fat Americans in this thread cant picture a life outside of having their government literally commit genocide so that they can continue being able to have beef and pork for every single meal of the day
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Jun 18, 2015 19:33
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Actually it's the consensus amongst many historians that japan would have been defeated pretty quickly anyway even if the nukes hadnt been deployed
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Jun 18, 2015 19:37
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killaer posted:The japanese have thousands of years of sacred culture while the fat Americans in this thread cant picture a life outside of having their government literally commit genocide so that they can continue being able to have beef and pork for every single meal of the day caesar can do no wrong
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Jun 18, 2015 19:37
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their thousands of years of sacred culture mostly consisted of xenophobia and nasty little internal wars. poo poo country, poo poo people, great anime. i love anime. though, the idea that the civilian population of japan was going to rise up and fight an american invasion to the last man, woman and child with bamboo spears was probably just propaganda.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:39
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was it?
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Jun 18, 2015 19:39
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I think Godzilla is a neat fictional creation and I'm skeptical w/o nukes we would ever have had a Godzilla. So those people died for a good cause imho
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Jun 18, 2015 19:40
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Op a lot of people died. it was p bad
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Jun 18, 2015 19:45
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Yes. NEXT THREAD
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Jun 18, 2015 19:46
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Moridin920 posted:I'd say you need to re-read some poo poo because the Japanese were bombed out to gently caress already before the nukes were dropped. The idea they were on the verge of surrender is pretty much entirely historical revisionism, along with singling out nukes when firebombing or island storming had a higher civilian kill rate. Most the people killed in the bombings were military or working to support the military in installations that were considered valid targets, whereas the firebombings pretty much just ravaged civilian infrastructure. Even the Japanese officials said bombing was the right thing to do lol. It really wasn't a hard choice when the alternative was the soviets.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:48
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The only reason why the bombings may have been beneficial in any way, is that they exemplified the destructive powers of the atomic bomb to the rest of the world and through horror discouraged the use of such a weapon on the holy grounds of the cheeseburger empire.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:50
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there is an argument to be made that forcing an immediate surrender with the destruction of two enemy cities was better than sacrificing more american lives against the japanese defenses, no matter how feeble they were at that point. of course, that wasnt actually why we nuked them. it was mostly just dickwaving at the soviet union. but hey, at least it helped create the unique post-war period which gave us anime. who knows, maybe early japanese animators wouldnt have imitated disney if the end of the war had gone differently, which would have left us without the anime of today we know and love.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:51
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tsa posted:The idea they were on the verge of surrender is pretty much entirely historical revisionism, along with singling out nukes when firebombing or island storming had a higher civilian kill rate. Most the people killed in the bombings were military or working to support the military in installations that were considered valid targets, whereas the firebombings pretty much just ravaged civilian infrastructure. Yeah you can link me a book filled with a bunch of Japanese top brass bragging that their soldiers would die fighting regardless of the odds, that they'd execute a bunch of US POWs, and that Japanese honor prevents anyone from disobeying orders, and I can link you a bunch of US top brass saying the Japanese capacity for war was completely destroyed and there was 0 tactical reason to drop the bomb. We can talk about the Potsdam conference and the 'unconditional surrender' thing, or the emperor's ability to sign such a treaty. But at the end of the day nuking people is bad and honestly the whole land invasion of Japan as a given no matter what seems odd when really at that point we could have just blockaded their asses until they finally gave up. We'd already beaten them back to Japan, why did we think we needed to do a land invasion to get the 100% war score or whatever? "When the alternative was the soviets" I'ma shakin in my booties about the reds.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:52
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thathonkey posted:Actually it's the consensus amongst many historians that japan would have been defeated pretty quickly anyway even if the nukes hadnt been deployed This isn't D&D, human being, you can't just say poo poo like that without some evidence
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Jun 18, 2015 19:53
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Pauline Kael posted:This isn't D&D, human being, you can't just say poo poo like that without some evidence this thread pops up every month so I'm not doing it anymore but there's tons and tons of quotes from US commanding officers in charge of the entire theater across all branches of the military that all have the basic assessment of 'Japan is hosed, they have no ammo, they have no food, they have no oil, they have no way of getting more, all their poo poo has been blown to pieces 10x over, they are going to surrender within weeks. It isn't even cost effective to bomb them anymore because we have no targets left.' there's a bunch of quotes from Japanese top brass that say 'nah we would have fought to the bitter loving end' but who knows what their ability was to actually enforce such orders.  just google for 5 seconds
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Jun 18, 2015 19:55
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Serious Frolicking posted:but hey, at least it helped create the unique post-war period which gave us anime. who knows, maybe early japanese animators wouldnt have imitated disney if the end of the war had gone differently, which would have left us without the anime of today we know and love. Nuke = Good because Nuke = Anime These are stats I can not argue, I know it to be true.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:57
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Maybe more people would have been sympathetic if it wasn't for the utterly enormous war crimes perpetuated by Japan during the war, crimes that the citizens of Japan would be well aware of. Things like the rape of Nanking were published in detail in newspapers. They didn't even need a specialized division for genociding everyone in their way like the nazis did, the whole army was pretty much one big warcrime.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:57
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America kills hundreds of thousands of civilians during terror-campaigns, culminating in not one but two nuclear bombs dropped on civilians = Not Terrorists. They carry on this method of targeting civilians during all their following wars up to this day! HOWEVER, Heroic ISIS soldiers carrying out strategic urban bombings = EVIL??? WHAT THE EFF OPEN YOUR EYES, SHEEPLE subscribe to my newsletter if you want to know more
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Jun 18, 2015 19:57
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Serious Frolicking posted:their thousands of years of sacred culture mostly consisted of xenophobia and nasty little internal wars. poo poo country, poo poo people, great anime. i love anime. This isn't that complicated... not sure why goons have such a hard time understanding history previous to 1992. The bombs were dropped to hasten the end of the war and also to keep the Soviet gains in Northern Japan to a minimum, though that was more happy coincidence than the first reason.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:58
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Moridin920 posted:I'd say you need to re-read some poo poo because the Japanese were bombed out to gently caress already before the nukes were dropped. wow i can't believe we have a real life war journalist that was there
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Jun 18, 2015 19:58
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US nuked Japan because the USSR was about to stomp all over that poo poo and ban anime forever. human being USA decides to do the gay thing and makes Japan a client state and create anime for 1,000 years.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:59
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firebomb m y gayass
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Jun 18, 2015 20:00
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Moridin920 posted:this thread pops up every month so I'm not doing it anymore but there's tons and tons of quotes from US commanding officers in charge of the entire theater across all branches of the military that all have the basic assessment of 'Japan is hosed, they have no ammo, they have no food, they have no oil, they have no way of getting more, all their poo poo has been blown to pieces 10x over, they are going to surrender within weeks. It isn't even cost effective to bomb them anymore because we have no targets left.' Yeah there's lots of revisionist history out there painting the US out as the bad guy, got it. So when you won in Red Alert 2, did you use a lot of Kirovs, or did you prefer the tank rush?
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Jun 18, 2015 20:00
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Ramsus posted:wow i can't believe we have a real life war journalist that was there wow wow it's like nothing was ever recorded or put into writing before 1990 or something
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Jun 18, 2015 20:02
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Ghost Head posted:Op a lot of people died. it was p bad
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Jun 18, 2015 20:02
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George Bush's grandpa was in texas like mission accomplished but he didnt' know poo poo john mccain's dad was on the western front and he knew the true jap threat
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Jun 18, 2015 20:04
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Moridin920 posted:wow wow it's like nothing was ever recorded or put into writing before 1990 or something Let me guess, in your version of history, North Korea are the good guys, and Vladimir Putin is a hero
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Jun 18, 2015 20:04
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