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Spoilers only spoil the most superficial parts of a thing. To be honest I've felt more suspense when I've been 'spoiled' on something because when I recognise the spoiled scene I'm all "it's happening" and poo poo.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:38
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I posted this in the qcs thread, but I guess we're discussing it more seriously here: A simple spoiler like "Snape Kills Dumbledore" isn't enough to ruin things for that book/movie, because you don't really know the motivations, circumstances and so on. Snape could be killing Dumbledore as some kind of complicated plan noble sacrifice deal, for instance. In fact, the blatant short form of the spoiler actually ends up being a bit of an anti-spoiler that way because it misleads you into a partially erroneous conclusion. Saying Bruce Willis is actually a ghost the whole time does kind of ruin the movie though, because that's basically all there is to the plot twist, and half the movie is about playing with your perspective to make you think he isn't a ghost so you look back on it after being oblivious for 2 hours and go "OOOOHHHHH". If you're not oblivious the first time, or you don't get the chance to figure it out yourself during the movie and before the reveal, that effect is ruined. You basically get the chance to watch two movies for the price of one. The GoT toilet thing is probably somewhere in the middle.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:40
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I think the Sopranos finale is good example of a scene where there isn't some out of nowhere mind-blowing twist, but so much of the final scenes impact is lost when you know what's going to happen. Its not some cheap, superficial crowd-pleasing moment, the entire sequence is expertly crafted in order to put the viewer in Tony's POV. The suspense builds and builds until its almost unbearable. You only get to experience that the one time, or if somebody spoiled it for you, not at all.
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Jun 19, 2015 19:21
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From what I have seen, on the internet and among rl friends, being afraid of spoilers creates a lot of unnecessary stress. Then again, I don't watch a lot of TV or movies, so I don't have the same connection with the media as people who regularly go here or TVIV do. Though I will admit, as Kylra posted, there are some things that probably lend well to not being spoiled. To me, knowing about people dying in movies or TV shows isn't as big a deal as understanding the motive behind their death or the poignancy of the surrounding scene. If I read something that tells me all those details, then it's probably a synopsis and too long for me to be accidentally spoiled by it, since spoilers are usually short little tidbits like "DARTH VADER IS LUKE'S FATHER" or "ROSEBUD WAS KANE'S SLED"Kylra posted:The GoT toilet thing is probably somewhere in the middle. Yeah, even though the experience is diminished, I'm sure there are plenty of people who didn't believe the toilet part until they saw it with their own eyeballs on the television monitor, so that must have gotten a laugh out of some of them.
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Jun 19, 2015 20:21
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contrapants posted:Seagal... were always going to win. Surprises are fun. Spoilers ruin the surprise. I had a surprise party thrown for me once. My brother in law hosed up and spoiled it for me. It was still a fun party, but I didn't have the fun of the actual surprise. So yeah spoilers don't ruin a whole movie for me, but they definitely ruin the surprise which is like a couple percentage points of the enjoyment at least. I'm taking my 13 year old daughter through some classic/great movies and her not knowing what happens in a lot of cases takes her on an emotional rollercoaster that is really enjoyable for her to experience, and for me to watch, that would be ruined if I spoiled it for her. contrapants posted:I knew Dexter was going to kill the villain of every season. You could even tell me how he would kill John Lithgow and that Rita would be dead. I'd still want to see it. Perfect example. I totally did not see Rita's death coming and since I was invested in the show emotionally, to see him win only to lose anyway was an amazing shock that left me wound up for quite a bit afterwards. I thoroughly enjoyed that surprise and again, while it wouldn't ruin the show like the writing of season 6 did, (which spoiled itself it was so bad) I definitely would have not had the same emotional high that I did going in blind. Therefore I will continue to avoid spoilers because I like being surprised. I interpret your post as saying there are no reveals that are worth keeping secret, and I strongly disagree from personal experience. They don't ruin an overall experience, but they do ruin pieces of the experience.
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Jun 19, 2015 21:10
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I think it depends on how you view movies. If you enjoy film analysis, then the ending of the film is just another element with which you process its meaning or structure. Knowing that the main character dies at the end means you will be viewing his actions and the events of the film with the perspective of how they will lead to his doom. You can see how the filmmakers build up the audience and how they create sympathy for the character to make people invested in the characters death. I've never really had a problem "feeling" a movie where I already had some part of the ending spoiled for me. If a movie is worth re-watching, my emotional involvement tends to heighten over time (some of my favorite movies I left with a muddled, confused feeling the first time). The only movies I feel that can really be spoiled are ones where the confusion and your attempts to process it are part of the film. Kill List was brought up earlier, I feel like the dread and atmosphere would be lessened if someone told you what the movie was about, although the ending can easily be guessed before it arrives. Not exactly high cinema, but The Perfect Host and Botched (2007) also come to mind. Ex Machina had me deeply engaged and paranoid in thinking what could really be going on behind what was being presented by the film, and that experience was much more rewarding than the actual "twist" of the ending. In that matter, these can be easily spoiled in the way someone can ruin a riddle by asking it, then blurting out the answer while you've just started thinking about it.
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Jun 19, 2015 22:08
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One of the most amazing  moments of my life was when I watched Terminator 3 and didn't know about the twist ending. I mean, the movie was generally mediocre, but I walked out of that flick with my jaw just dragging the floor, amazed that they had the balls to make a Terminator movie where you, me, Donald Trump, the mods, and drat near everybody who wasn't John Connor got vaporized in a fiery holocaust of unimaginable horror.A couple of years back I showed Terminator 2 to a girl who was young enough that she didn't see it when it came out, had never seen the previews, had no idea that Arnold was the good guy in this one, and she had that same reaction when the movie revealed that Arnold was the good guy and Robert Patrick was the bad guy. It never even occurred to me that somebody could be old enough to hold a job and have their own car, and not have somehow picked up through cultural osmosis that Arnold is the good guy in T2 (which is widely considered one of the greatest action movies of all time).
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Jun 19, 2015 22:26
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Hypothesis: the people who don't care about spoilers have a significant overlap with people who are maximum  about having guessed the outcome before the end anyway.
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Jun 19, 2015 23:16
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I care about spoilers and am maximum about having guessed the outcome before the end. MYTH BUSTED
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Jun 19, 2015 23:20
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Kylra posted:The GoT toilet thing is probably somewhere in the middle. The toilet spoiler was really the best one for me. I'd been spoiled on a few GoT things but I'd taken care to not get spoiled up to that point. I'd actually more or less made peace with the idea that a particular major character was dying but then the show pulled a fast one on me and a different major character bit it.
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Jun 20, 2015 00:21
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Lt. Danger posted:Spoilers only spoil the most superficial parts of a thing. To be honest I've felt more suspense when I've been 'spoiled' on something because when I recognise the spoiled scene I'm all "it's happening" and poo poo. Yeah, like the scene in Burn After Reading when Clooney finds Brad Pitt in the closet is surprising the first time, and then incredibly suspenseful the second time onwards.
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Jun 20, 2015 00:21
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After a few months I finally got my friend to watch Twin Peaks. He was only a couple episodes from the reveal of who killed Laura Palmer. Then we decided to watch the Eddie Pepitome special on Netflix. In the unlikest of coincidences, Eddie Pepitome reveals who the killer was. That was a real bummer.
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Jun 20, 2015 03:08
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I'm slightly annoyed that I never saw Psycho the way Hitchcock intended due to being popular culture spoiled years later (and other movies copying many of the groundbreaking at the time things later). That must have been such a ridiculously great, jarring experience. Even though I "appreciate" it now, I missed out on a whole lot of emotions.
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Jun 20, 2015 03:13
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If people didn't have access to spoilers they wouldn't use them, obviously!
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Jun 20, 2015 06:40
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When the 6th Harry Potter came out I made my MSN name 'Snape Kills Dumbledore' That was fun.
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Jun 20, 2015 07:03
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The best thing about spoilers is how the Internet has made them go from the maybe reasonable ending of the film or major twist to people complaining that you're talking about something that shows up in a trailer or ad or the first five minutes of the thing in question.
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Jun 20, 2015 08:59
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Dude, half the fun is trying to pick up on certain narratives' clues and seeing if you can correctly guess where they are leading. It's why a re-watch can be more enjoyable for a good film, when you go back and connect any missing plot hooks that foretold what would happen in the proceeding acts. When a good movie's plot is spoiled, it's like re-using a Connect the Dots or doing the same jigsaw puzzle for a second time. Sure you will appreciate all the hooks, but its in the same way you will appreciate Breast Feeding as a neurotypical adult who happens to be starving, a la Grapes of Wrath. Ralp posted:The published study: http://pss.sagepub.com/content/22/9/1152 Get this poo poo out of here. RESPONSE 1: Go drink in the UCSD towers for a night or so and realize how dumb those fuckers are. RESPONSE 2: The Paradox of Suspense is a poorly-fleshed out theory. It is also not a very wide-spread theory. How about the intuitive phenomenon where I don't experience suspense because some fucker robbed me of the pleasure of figuring it out myself. (or trying to) IMO Paradox of Suspense is just mis-attributed "some fuckers are happy with literally the same old poo poo over and over again" paradox. I at least like my poo poo repackaged, etc... (nothing new under the sun) Humans enjoy looking for patterns, it's in our biological programming. When the pattern is spelt out for us we quickly lose interest. It's part of why gambling is so addictive (we feel we can almost figure out a pattern that doesn't exist). AutoSnakes fucked around with this message at 11:19 on Jun 20, 2015 |
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Jun 20, 2015 11:12
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Whining about casting choices is pretty dumb though, like what's happening in the Star Wars thread.
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Jun 20, 2015 16:39
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I think that movie and tv people should adopt the Let's Play lingo where they call playing a game for the first time without having read up on spoilers, playing the game "blind", because then people would be saying that they are going to watch a movie blind, which sounds funny to me.
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Jun 20, 2015 20:21
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computer parts posted:Whining about casting choices is pretty dumb though, like what's happening in the Star Wars thread. Yeah it's retarded to go into a thread for a thing and then whine about people talking about news for it. Like, what else are they supposed to talk about in the months before it's out. And if casting choices are a big deal then you just gotta have some restraint and not click on a thread where people would talk about it. And probably close your eyes while walking around at the movie theater because you might pass by a poster with names on it.
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Jun 20, 2015 20:41
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Srice posted:Yeah it's retarded to go into a thread for a thing and then whine about people talking about news for it. It is an option if you don't have anything to say to just not talk at all
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Jun 20, 2015 22:49
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Darko posted:I'm slightly annoyed that I never saw Psycho the way Hitchcock intended due to being popular culture spoiled years later (and other movies copying many of the groundbreaking at the time things later). That must have been such a ridiculously great, jarring experience. Even though I "appreciate" it now, I missed out on a whole lot of emotions. My wife was somehow able to watch Psycho without knowing anything about it at all (she's not "culturally savvy" I guess). It was fun to watch her watching it, because that is a movie with multiple twists and turns. I think it's coming to the point now where most kids today know nothing about Psycho, I'm looking forward to watching it with my kids someday as well to see their reactions.
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Jun 21, 2015 01:51
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The only thing I don't understand is why some people are taking a moral stance on an issue that boils down to "what's so hard about typing [ spoiler ] and later [ / spoiler ]" Like who cares about the deeper theory of how spoilers scientifically impact enjoyment, it's an issue of social courtesy, and a really minor one at that. You might as well ask "Why should people spell words correctly" or "Why do I have to hold the door open for the next person behind me?" The answer is that of course you don't, but if it's something that actually bothers you then you're probably dumb or a sociopath.
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Jun 21, 2015 02:20
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precision posted:The only thing I don't understand is why some people are taking a moral stance on an issue that boils down to "what's so hard about typing [ spoiler ] and later [ / spoiler ]" It's not social courtesy if some idiot is whining about people openly discussing that The Player Character in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic is Darth Revan because that game came out over a decade ago.
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Jun 21, 2015 02:33
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computer parts posted:It's not social courtesy if some idiot is whining about people openly discussing that The Player Character in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic is Darth Revan because that game came out over a decade ago. I was just talking about threads that are discussing relatively recent and specific media in forums that at least pretend to be about legitimate discussion. if someone is getting spoiled in GBS or whatever that's their own fault.
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Jun 21, 2015 03:06
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precision posted:I was just talking about threads that are discussing relatively recent and specific media in forums that at least pretend to be about legitimate discussion. if someone is getting spoiled in GBS or whatever that's their own fault. No, you ran in here and said "but have you considered that anyone who disagrees with me is a sociopath?"
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Jun 21, 2015 04:00
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Whatever you say, sociopath.
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Jun 21, 2015 04:02
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computer parts posted:No, you ran in here and said "but have you considered that anyone who disagrees with me is a sociopath?" Well I think that more people, in general, should be constantly checking to make sure they aren't exhibiting symptoms of sociopathy. It can be cured if detected early enough!
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Jun 21, 2015 04:26
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I watched season one of Game of Thrones after the whole season came out, but before the hype train really got going on the show. I'm so happy that the dragon eggs hatching wasn't spoiled for me before I got a chance to see it, because I didn't think the show was going to go that high fantasy, and I'm a big enough dork to own a half dozen of these guys so I just about lost my mind when it happened. If I'd known what was going to happen I would have spent most of the season waiting for dragon hatchlings to appear instead of really watching the show. If I know something specific is coming it's hard to stop trying to figure out when that specific incident is going to happen rather than just watching whatever it is as a whole.
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Jun 21, 2015 04:36
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Spoilers and Going-Into-The-Movie-Knowing-To-Pay-Attention-To-Xs improve my experience in a movie, game, whatever. I don't really care about being surprised. I don't actively spoil poo poo for people, don't get me wrong, because I understand people wanting to not know poo poo.
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Jun 21, 2015 04:40
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The only times spoilers matter is if they "spoil" something integral to what the director was intending, like in Psycho. For instance, everybody probably knows that Rosebud was a loving sled in Citizen Kane but that knowledge takes nothing away from the movie.
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Jun 21, 2015 05:09
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:The only times spoilers matter is if they "spoil" something integral to what the director was intending, like in Psycho. Honestly the shower scene is a much more damning spoiler than the actual last minute reveal. With the latter you know Norman's a crazy dude, which makes the extended sequence of him cleaning up the crime scene all the better.
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Jun 21, 2015 05:21
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computer parts posted:Honestly the shower scene is a much more damning spoiler than the actual last minute reveal. With the latter you know Norman's a crazy dude, which makes the extended sequence of him cleaning up the crime scene all the better. I was talking about both, actually. The shower scene is a shock because the entire film so far has been setting up Janet Leigh as the main character. The mother scene reveals how hosed up Norman really is.
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Jun 21, 2015 06:21
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My mind was loving blown at the end of the movie when it was revealed that Dracula was actually a vampire. On the other hand, I knew going into Twin Peaks that Laura Palmer was killed by Agent Scully but I'm a cool cat so it didn't bother me at all. I didn't understand the ending of The Sixth Sense at all though: it was pretty clear that Alan Rickman's character died when he fell of the building so what was the twist?
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Jun 21, 2015 17:15
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InfiniteZero posted:My mind was loving blown at the end of the movie when it was revealed that Dracula was actually a vampire. On the other hand, I knew going into Twin Peaks that Laura Palmer was killed by Agent Scully but I'm a cool cat so it didn't bother me at all. I didn't understand the ending of The Sixth Sense at all though: it was pretty clear that Alan Rickman's character died when he fell of the building so what was the twist? I'm glad no one spoiled this post for me.
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Jun 21, 2015 17:29
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InfiniteZero posted:My mind was loving blown at the end of the movie when it was revealed that Dracula was actually a vampire. On the other hand, I knew going into Twin Peaks that Laura Palmer was killed by Agent Scully but I'm a cool cat so it didn't bother me at all. I didn't understand the ending of The Sixth Sense at all though: it was pretty clear that Alan Rickman's character died when he fell of the building so what was the twist? Kevin Spacey was Bruce Willis the whole time.
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Jun 21, 2015 18:10
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MisterBibs posted:Spoilers and Going-Into-The-Movie-Knowing-To-Pay-Attention-To-Xs improve my experience in a movie, game, whatever. I don't really care about being surprised.
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Jun 21, 2015 22:28
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Spoilers suck, if you weren't intending on knowing them. I'm not super sensitive on the issue but I like to watch movies spoiler-free. Of COURSE the hero wins in the end, but it's the details that count (and sometimes the hero DOESN"T win in the end and spoilers suck for that, too.) For those who say "but it doesn't ruin the experience knowing so-and-so beforehand!", that's what all subsequent viewings are for. I want the first one to be the experience the director intended. I saw Sixth Sense unspoiled, and it hit me like a brick when I realized the plot just a short bit before it was spelled out. Matrix was cool to see blind. A decent amount of scifi and suspense lose their impact when the plot is revealed. I want to get caught up in the movie, not waiting for certain scenes to happen or "oh yeah I remember this part from the trailer." If you want spoilers, be my guest- just let those of us who don't want them stay in the dark!
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Jun 21, 2015 23:07
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NarkyBark posted:If you want spoilers, be my guest- just let those of us who don't want them stay in the dark! I think the main reason this thread was made was because there were people in this category that simultaneously actively sought out discussion but don't want to be spoiled on anything. I'm definitely sympathetic to not wanting to be spoiled (even though I feel that attitude can get in the way of discussing things). But I feel that all too frequently that spoilerphobia goes beyond what is reasonable, in terms of making people bend over backwards to accommodate that fear.
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Jun 21, 2015 23:36
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Not the end of the world if you get spoiled on something, but lol at anyone who tries to dress their casual use of them as some sick burn towards the person who wanted a "fresh" watch of something.
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Jun 21, 2015 23:37
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