Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
dotchan
Feb 28, 2008

I wanna get a Super Saiyan Mohawk when I grow up! :swoon:
Would forensics be able to make any kind of identification on the pot contents at this point, though? (I suppose all of the evidence put together make the case for guilt stronger, but still.)

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mzbundifund
Nov 5, 2011

I'm afraid so.
It's always tricky to try to guess exactly how scientifically accurate a mystery game's forensics are going to be, but yeah you can absolutely detect blood in water. DNA itself doesn't begin to break down until 130 degrees. Since water under standard atmospheric pressures will boil off long before it reaches 130C, I would expect you could still genetically ID a blood sample even if it was boiled. No idea if the presence of pasta would complicate things much.

Kangra
May 7, 2012

I bet if they looked for it they'd find more blood than is normal in tap water, but they probably wouldn't even bother given everything else that points to Goldie.

Seems like it would have been smarter and easier to just throw the ice knife in the shower and let it melt down the drain.

I think the alter ego should accept the name 'Aldente'.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!

Kangra posted:

I bet if they looked for it they'd find more blood than is normal in tap water, but they probably wouldn't even bother given everything else that points to Goldie.

Seems like it would have been smarter and easier to just throw the ice knife in the shower and let it melt down the drain.

I think the alter ego should accept the name 'Aldente'.

There's already an Aldente in the Laytonverse.

Hopeford
Oct 15, 2010

Eh, why not?
I like that Alfendi at one point just goes "No. I'm not gonna keep trying to prove your guilt. I know you did it. I have the evidence. I don't need you dramatically confessing to it. Get your lawyer if it makes you feel better. Bye." Also my personal name for his later ego is "Evil Al." Because he's not that weird, just evil, and I'm a huge dork.

Trollhawke
Jan 25, 2012

I'LL GET YOU THIS YEAR! EVEN IF I SAID THIS LAST YEAR TOOOOOO
God I love the smell of salty succubi in the morning

Hopeford posted:

I like that Alfendi at one point just goes "No. I'm not gonna keep trying to prove your guilt. I know you did it. I have the evidence. I don't need you dramatically confessing to it. Get your lawyer if it makes you feel better. Bye." Also my personal name for his later ego is "Evil Al." Because he's not that weird, just evil, and I'm a huge dork.

Why not go with "Al Capone?"

inflatablefish
Oct 24, 2010
Alfendi and Alfiend.

Drakenel
Dec 2, 2008

The glow is a guide, my friend. Though it falls to you to avert catastrophe, you will never fight alone.
He seems rather empathetic for the thrill of the kill there. Personal experience there, Alfendi?

RelentlessImp
Mar 15, 2011

inflatablefish posted:

Alfendi and Alfiend.

Alfendi and Alfender. Gotta let the genie outta the bottle sometimes.

inflatablefish
Oct 24, 2010

RelentlessImp posted:

Alfendi and Alfender. Gotta let the genie outta the bottle sometimes.

Does that mean he has a third form called Alfendest?

Trollhawke
Jan 25, 2012

I'LL GET YOU THIS YEAR! EVEN IF I SAID THIS LAST YEAR TOOOOOO
God I love the smell of salty succubi in the morning

RelentlessImp posted:

Alfendi and Alfender. Gotta let the genie outta the bottle sometimes.

Is he stuck in the Alfend zone?

HydroSphere
Feb 11, 2014





Yes, she did.

I were in a right tizz when the lab said they'd found nowt on that clock hand, I can tell you.

Ha ha. Don't worry, Lucy. You weren't alone.

It's a bit of a gamble as to whether they'll find any traces of blood in the pot of pasta as well.

You're joking, aren't you?

I'm pretty sure she's going to confess now, though.

Pretty sure, eh?



She's—achoo!--admitted everything.

What about Bing? Did someone collect him from the car? :ohdear:

Ee, what a relief!

It seems she was after the man's life insurance.

She told us as much when we were questioning her, would you believe?

Oh. Well, did you know this? We've found out that Potsby won a, a, a – achoo! - very large sum of money last year. That's when Ms Mahn came into his life. Hardly what you might call a coincidence.

She were a real gold-digger, eh?

Well, it seems Potsby was spending money like water.



I see. So it was something of a rush job. She no doubt prepared better for her other spouses.

So it's all done and dusted then? Fabulous!

I must say, Al, you don't look very well. Are you alright?

Probably that Jekyll and Hyde moment you had's taken it out of you, eh, Prof?

That's a bit of an exaggerated way of describing it, Lucy.

But I do feel a little under the weather. I think I'll go home early if no one objects?

Are you sure you'll be alright?

It's nothing a bit of sleep won't cure, I'm sure. Can you close up the office when you leave?

Consider it done.

Alfendi leaves.



So it happened again, did it?

Hey, do you know then, Florence? About the Prof?

Whatever's it all about eh?

Calm down, Lucy. I really don't know all that much about it. But you're safe as long as there's a criminal present.

You don't hear that said every day!



You won't come to any harm.

So he's got some kind of vendetta against all criminals or summat?

Actually, from what I've seen of him, I'd say it's quite the opposite. He can't help liking them. All the more so, the more atrocious they are.

Ee, I don't like the sound of that.

There's really no cause for alarm. Like I said, as long as there's a criminal present, you're perfectly safe.

What happens if he shows up when it's just the two of us, though?



That's reassuring.

: I, I think I'll come in my plimsolls tomorrow.

Lucy takes learning that she spends her days at work cloistered with someone that can turn into a potentially violent criminal lover quite well though.



Hints:



There's nothing particularly suspicious about this, I'd say.

And nowt much of note inside it, either. Except umpteen cans of beer.

Perhaps we can conclude they didn't have a particularly healthy diet?



Don't you find you always end up doodling on pads like this while you're ont' phone?

No, I can't say that I do.



The supporting pillars would make it pretty easy to climb up here, even though it's the first floor, eh?

Yes, and the low wall's rather disturbing as well.



Nice to see they were conscientious about separating their rubbish.

There's very little in either bin. Looks like they hardly used them.



If you're going to chuck stuff in't the bin, at least know how to aim!

Quite. You'd think a damp piece of card would make the perfect projectile.



There's clothes from the both of them in here. Nothing that sets any alarm bells ringing.

Apart from the astonishing lack of organisation.



This is a standard sort of sink. Nothing of interest here.

Aye, no point pouring our investigative efforts down the plughole, eh?



There's bits all over the place, look. Someone gave it a fair old thump from out there ont' balcony.

Doesn't the position of the fragments say something to you?

Aye. They're all on the inside. I already picked up on that, Prof.

Yes, that's right. But what about the position of the fragments relative to the body?

That should tell you something important about the sequence of events.



It seems the victim was watching television until just before he was killed.

Ee, that programme with Roscoe Strapping in, were it? I tuned in to that an' all.

I couldn't take my eyes off hi--...off it, I mean. It were right edge -of-seat stuff, it were.

Really? Could that be connected to the case in some way then?

No. It's nowt to do with it. I were just rambling. Sorry.



Pooh! I'd better get my Marigolds right now, I think!

It doesn't seem as if Potsby or his wife were overly keen on cleaning.



Someone's done a good job of making this bed, eh? Look at those hospital corners.

The neatness of the bed seems a little at odds with the rest of the flat.

It doesn't appear to have been slept in or used in any way before or after the incident.



It looks cracking in here, this clock. Suits the room to a tee.

Yes, I'm very fond of such classic designs myself. I suppose it's my father's influence.

Oh? Were your dad a horologist or summat?



Eh-up, Prof! Metal...pointy...sharp...



He doesn't strike me as much of a cook. Must've been her that were boiling the pasta, eh?

That would mean she'd left it on the stove while she went to have a shower.

That's a fire hazard, that is. We should nick her for reckless cooking, if nowt else!



Well, Nicks were dressed in black, you can't deny that.

I wouldn't have described him as muscular, however. No, you're jumping to conclusions.



Oh, come on! What a cock-eyed way to wangle his way out of it, the daft old lag!

No, you're quite right. Seeing as he's a serial burglar, we can't trust what he says at all.

Nevertheless, burglars aren't in the habit of breaking into lit rooms.

Surely no thief would've been foolish enough to break in while Potsby was right there watching television.

Hmm, I suppose you're right.



His looks were his one redeeming feature? Not much of a recommendation, is it?

Better than having no redeeming features at all, perhaps?

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!
The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > Let's Play! > My boss might be a serial killer. Layton Brothers: Mystery Room.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Okay, this Jekyll-and-Hyde moment has me interested all of a sudden. It makes me wonder, like, if Alfendi wanted to become a better policeman by really understanding criminals. I mean, REALLY understanding them.

HydroSphere
Feb 11, 2014

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > Let's Play! > My boss might be a serial killer. Layton Brothers: Mystery Room.

Why not? :) I don't have PM access though (assuming that PM'ing a Mod is the normal way to get a thread title changed); if any Mods are reading this, would you mind changing the thread title?






Are we expecting you?

Oh, I must be in the wrong room.

Alfendi appears.

Ah, Lawson. What are you doing here?

This is the third time in a row that someone seems to have missed Alfendi in the office - either the office is really large, everyone really needs to visit an optician, or, Alfendi spends his time at work when he's not on a case under a desk.

There you are, Al. So who's this young lady then, hm?

I'm Lucy Baker. I'm the Prof's new research assistant.

You two haven't met before, have you?



It also looks like he forgot to put his trousers on.

Sorry, but the introductions will have to wait.

Have you heard about the actress in the on-stage murder case?

Aye, I have. I saw it on the Jeremy Summer show.

I'm not sure, but the name Jeremy makes me think that this could be a reference to the Jeremy Kyle programme. Jeremy Kyle is a rather controversial chat show (as opposed to celebrity gossip)- by controversial, I mean that just about everyone despises the programme to the extent that admitting to watching Jeremy Kyle will almost certainly lead to looks of disgust from anyone in hearing distance, if not open mocking.

Some loopy fan announced they were going to kill the lass on stage!

That's the press's take on it, is it?

They've got it wrong?

Yes, it's much more straightforward than that.



So you have your man, then?

Unfortunately not. Someone punched the young bloke and knocked him out cold, you see.

What, the murderer got a thumping?

Interesting. This sounds like a case for the Mystery Room. We'll look into it.

I had a feeling you'd want to take it on. I've already sent the file over. Good luck with it.













Let's go over the case.

The incident took place during a place in which a high-profile actor and actress were starring.




Roscoe Strapping was briefly mentioned in the last case, he was in the programme that Jack Potsby (and Lucy) was watching.

It turns out the pair were also engaged to be married in real life.




Despairing of his actions, the hero leaves the room.



Ooh, I bet she were having a case of the jitters before her big entrance.

Immediately after that, the lights went out.



As it dawns on the audience that this is not part of the play, another shot rings out through the darkness.

No!




Shot in the dark, eh?



He was found lying unconscious in the wings...with the murder weapon in his hand.



It's far from conclusive proof that he's the killer. So that information's being kept from the press.



Sounds fishy to me.

Perhaps. But he definitely lost consciousness for a while. That is beyond dispute.

Hmph.

So, let's consider who the culprit could be.



He was found lying unconscious in the wings with the gun that was used in the shooting in his hand.

However, he claims someone knocked him unconscious and planted the weapon on him.

Going off the evidence we have, he's got to be our number one suspect, eh?



He exited the stage just before the theater was plunged into darkness. He claims to have been alone in his dressing room when he heard the shot.

Hmm, I wonder.



She was on stage with the victim when the lights went out. She was also the closest person to the victim when the lights came on again.

The one who discovered the body!

So, those are our three suspects. Based on that information, Lucy, who do you think did it? What's your hunch?

After you've told me that, we'll start with the actual detective work.

It's curtains for whoever did this, Prof, you mark my words!



This is an extremely complicated case.

I would start by considering Bray, the young man found unconscious holding the gun.

Was he struck by the real killer? Or is he lying?

Personally, I find the goings-on backstage to be more than a little suspicious.



So, shall we investigate the scene?



I'll give you five minutes this time.

What a shock.

No problem, Prof!

The crime scene:



The floor:



Behind the set door:



The body:



The sofa:



Clegg:



Behind the set:



Statements:

Roscoe Strapping

Statement 1:

After my exit, I went straight back to my dressing room. I only realised something was wrong when I heard the gunshot.

Statement 2:

When I came back onto the stage, the lights were up and Destiny was holding Gloria in her arms. I knew she was dead in an instant.

Destiny Knox

Statement 1:

After the blackout, I heard Gloria scream. I'd know her scream anywhere. She's my absolute idol, it was definitely her.

Statement 2:

After the scream, I heard a gunshot right next to where I was standing. It was pitch black, so I couldn't see anything. I just remember being utterly terrified.

Bray Clegg

Statement 1:

When he made his exit from stage, Mr. Strapping bumped into Destiny. I panicked a bit, because it wasn't in the script.

Statement 2:

I heard a woman's scream, but then I was attacked by someone who knocked me out. I didn't see the killer's face. When I came to, there was a gun in my hand!

JamieTheD
Nov 4, 2011

LPer, Reviewer, Mad Welshman

(Yes, that's a self portrait)
Aha! At first, I was typing this out, but then I noticed something.



The rips in that bullet hole are pointing to the stage, and the distance looks about right. So I'm actually going to go with Roscoe for now, because he's the only one who claims not to have been on stage when it happened. I find it suspicious that Destiny was standing next to where the gun is, and the oil stain on the wall is equally odd, but... My gut feeling from that image is that the gun wasn't fired on stage (Although it was placed in Bray's hand afterward)

EDIT: Except it says it's lodged in the wall, when the rips definitely seem to point out. That's confusing as hell! Well, I guess Destiny, then. Weirdness... :(

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

My completely-evidenceless theory:
The first shot on stage was the lethal one, Bray switched guns. The Destiny mimicked the scream and hit Bray. Bray and Destiny are working together to frame Roscoe.

curiousCat
Sep 23, 2012

Does this look like the face of mercy, kupo?
I think around the same except that the scream was probably recorded.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
Several things appear to be significant, though I'm not sure how to piece them together.

1. The two bloodstains- real and fake, with real on the interior, suggesting it happened second. The game has given us the ability to distinguish between the two very intentionally.
2. The lubricant-soaked prop gun (made by the stagehand), and the lubricant backstage.
3. The discarded squib switch, indicating that someone else triggered the fake blood. This is especially important, because lacking an alternate explanation, this someone else is the murderer.


The classic mystery move would be a gun switch, or that the prop gun fired a real bullet. Under this reading, the lights going out provided cover for a fake scream from the actress. The bloodstain would belie this, though I am assuming the squib was on the victim. We should make sure the pistol was actually fired and not just loaded with 5 rounds.

Alternate, more complex explanations involve a double bluff allowing a second shot from behind stage simultaneous to or after the prop shot. Regardless, the multiple bulletholes and distance information tell me the location of the gunshot will have to be determined.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
Can we tell which one of the shots killed her? Because if it was the first one, why fire another? And what happened to the bullet? (Can we tell if one of the shots was the replica?)
The switch seems to be the key to the case - why didn't she have it?

On a first glance, my money's on Destiny - all three can have motives that the note would explain, but she was in the position to slip the note on her body and take and throw out the switch - for whatever reason.

Mzbundifund
Nov 5, 2011

I'm afraid so.
We need to keep on the lookout for a bald man

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!
I was only kidding about the title change, though I could ping a mod if you really like it. :)

And Jeremy Summer reminds me of Jerry Springer, personally.

Mraagvpeine
Nov 4, 2014

I won this avatar on a technicality this thick.
I don't know if the pun in the suspect's name is clever or groan-worthy.

Oblivion4568238
Oct 10, 2012

The Inquisition.
What a show.
The Inquisition.
Here. We. Go.
College Slice
My suspicion's on Destiny. My take is that both the scream and the gunshot during the blackout were fake, and Gloria was killed by the on-stage shot. Perhaps the real gun was swapped with the prop at the time? Destiny would have had the best opportunity to mess with the objects after the first shot, though I don't know about before.

Of course, we also have to consider how ominous the opening narration was. Could be we'll still get blindsided later into the case.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Oblivion4568238 posted:

My suspicion's on Destiny. My take is that both the scream and the gunshot during the blackout were fake, and Gloria was killed by the on-stage shot. Perhaps the real gun was swapped with the prop at the time? Destiny would have had the best opportunity to mess with the objects after the first shot, though I don't know about before.

Of course, we also have to consider how ominous the opening narration was. Could be we'll still get blindsided later into the case.

That was my first take, but the problem here is the bloodstain- it seems like the real blood is all inside the fake squib blood, meaning that the squib activated during the onstage shot and the real blood happened afterwards, presumably during the blackout.

Looking at the crime scene, the devs went out of their way to give us markers for all possible gunfire locations. We're going to be measuring the gunshot distance.

Can Of Worms
Sep 4, 2011

That's not how the Triangle Attack works...

Glazius posted:

Okay, this Jekyll-and-Hyde moment has me interested all of a sudden. It makes me wonder, like, if Alfendi wanted to become a better policeman by really understanding criminals. I mean, REALLY understanding them.
An investigator that emphasizes with criminals? :ohdear:

Kangra
May 7, 2012

We almost need a script here. Was she supposed to get up off the floor immediately? Otherwise, she was hit while lying on the ground by a bullet that went into the wall, if she hadn't already been shot.

The word pictures from Alfendi show her apparently standing up when screaming. Then again, they also show her real blood over the fake blood when she's lying down before that.

PlaceholderPigeon
Dec 31, 2012
Curious. A lot of the things have been gone over but a couple of things are still sticking out.

Whats with that lubrication line behind the set and why is the replica gun swimming in it? Would it be to cover something? Or move the ladder?

Why does the note have a bullet hole in it? One would imagine the typical process would be to shoot the gun, and then place the note, but that would mean that the note would be intact. Unless the note was supposed to be on there during the play itself.

I'm probably over complicating things too, but I imagine is possible to replace the oil painting replica with another with a prepared bullet hole to throw off the trajectory, given that the painting is of no value. This might be going too far into things meant to throw off the trail though.

Heatwizard
Nov 6, 2009

She has a threatening note in her pocket and she walked onstage without the trigger for her squib; she knew exactly what was about to happen. This isn't murder, it's a suicide. If there's an accomplice among the suspects, I guess it'd be Destiny; she's the one on stage as the lights fail, and she's the only source we have as to where the gunshot came from.

Tax Refund
Apr 15, 2011

The IRS gave me a refund. I spent it on this SA account. What was I thinking?!

After reading this line, my first guess was "It was a suicide. She loaded the fake gun with a real bullet, knowing that she'd be shot and killed with it, to take revenge (for some reason yet to be revealed) on her fellow actor, who would naturally be devastated." The second gunshot in the dark kind of puts that guess to rest... but I take lines like "No one could've guessed the real culprit" as a challenge.

Now to read the clues...

Edit to respond to two posts up from me:

PlaceholderPigeon posted:

Whats with that lubrication line behind the set and why is the replica gun swimming in it? Would it be to cover something? Or move the ladder?

Why does the note have a bullet hole in it? One would imagine the typical process would be to shoot the gun, and then place the note, but that would mean that the note would be intact. Unless the note was supposed to be on there during the play itself.

I think

PlaceholderPigeon posted:

Whats with that lubrication line behind the set and why is the replica gun swimming in it? Would it be to cover something? Or move the ladder?

Why does the note have a bullet hole in it? One would imagine the typical process would be to shoot the gun, and then place the note, but that would mean that the note would be intact. Unless the note was supposed to be on there during the play itself.

I think the lubrication line comes from the glove (not a bare hand, as no fingerprints were found) of whoever was holding the fake gun. That person (either Roscoe or Destiny) felt their way backstage to the rubbish bin, and tossed the squib and the replica gun into the bin (though in the dark, they missed the bin with the replica gun and it fell on the ground instead).

The note has a bullet hole in it because it was in her pocket when she was shot. And the bullet hole in the painting means that when she was shot, she was standing up on her stage position mark (stage position A), and the lethal bullet fired from the direction of stage position B. It could have been Roscoe who fired it, whether knowing or not knowing that he held a real gun rather than a fake, or it could have been someone further back.

The scenario I see is this:

Gloria is standing on stage position A, the note in her pocket. Roscoe has a real gun in his hand when he walks up to position B and pulls the trigger. Gloria is supposed to have the squib, but someone else triggers the squib just before the fatal shot, thus leading to the real blood being on top of the fake blood. (Why they did this, I don't know). It seems a bit much to have Roscoe doing all of that, so perhaps Destiny was the one to trigger the squib?

Okay, here's a theory that covers all the facts we know so far:

Roscoe and Destiny were having an affair. Gloria found out about it and decided to confront Roscoe. She typed up a note to hand to him and put it in her pocket for later. Roscoe and Destiny find out that Gloria knows, and collaborate to dispose of her. Roscoe shoots Gloria with the real gun (while Destiny triggers the squib and then tosses it in the trash), then heads backstage and ... assaults Bray (the stagehand) in the pitch dark? How'd he know where Bray would be standing? My theory needs some work. Well, I have to go now so I'll work on it some more later. But right now I suspect that Roscoe and Destiny collaborated on this murder. (Though I also can't rule out that Gloria decided to commit public suicide to get back at Roscoe for cheating on her, and enlisted Bray's help in the process. I'll work on that theory later too.)

Tax Refund fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Aug 5, 2015

Trollhawke
Jan 25, 2012

I'LL GET YOU THIS YEAR! EVEN IF I SAID THIS LAST YEAR TOOOOOO
God I love the smell of salty succubi in the morning
I get the feeling this case rests on two key factors - whoever wrote the note, and whoever held the Squib. There are three possible alternatives for the second one, two of which wouldn't have aroused suspicion:
  • If Blaise wasn't feeling well, Roscoe might have volunteered to time the squib, since he was the other person in the scene and her husband - for possibly nefarious reasons. He could have handed the props to Bray, since he's in charge of them.
  • Bray, and offhand stage, might have forgotten to put in Blaises costume that night, deliberately or not - this would explain if it was brought off stage and placed in the bin. At the same time, as stage hand and maker of the props, it would make sense for him to control the Squib so as not to break Kayfabe and In either scenario, the place where the note was is where the Squib should have been, I feel.
  • Destiny, if she set up the murder, could have easily known where the Squib was and flubbed the timing. If she placed the note, there's a high chance she could have swapped the revolvers as well - or Lubricated it to makes us think Bray was tampering with it..



As Jamie The D pointed out, this seems to imply the shot was fired into the painting - at Roscoe, maybe? The question I have is why Blaise screamed if she couldn't see her killer - possibly because she realised the blood was real, since she didn't have the Squib? Also why was Destiny running behind the stage?

My vote is Destiny will ultimately be the killer, but we need to talk to Bray first to get any further information.

RickVoid
Oct 21, 2010
I'm going with Suicide, here, for some of the reasons posted above, but also because the pun in her name is Blaze of Glory.

I'm also working on a dumb "this was an attempted suicide but someone else was already trying to kill her" convoluted comedy of errors, but I haven't sorted it all out yet.

PlaceholderPigeon
Dec 31, 2012
Looking at the statements there's some weird stuff

Roscoe says that "After my exit, I went straight back to my dressing room. I only realised something was wrong when I heard the gunshot." Interestingly he doesn't hear Blaise scream for help nor does he see the blackout but he does hear the gunshot.

Also he claims "When I came back onto the stage, the lights were up and Destiny was holding Gloria in her arms. I knew she was dead in an instant." Why would he know that given there was a fake blood squib and she was supposed to be acting like she was shot?

Yet Destiny says that "After the scream, I heard a gunshot right next to where I was standing. It was pitch black, so I couldn't see anything. I just remember being utterly terrified." Assuming Destiny is telling the truth, who would be there to shoot the gun?

Then Bray says "I heard a woman's scream, but then I was attacked by someone who knocked me out. I didn't see the killer's face. When I came to, there was a gun in my hand!" - which means he was allegedly knocked out after Roscoe left yet before the gunshot.

Questions remain: how long was it before Roscoe left the scene before the blackout happens? The narration says " Immediately after that, the lights went out." which seems like right after Roscoe was out the door it was out. But that seems like a really short time! And then how long is there for Blaise to scream and the lights to go out after that? And then how much time after the shot does it take for the lights to go on? Is there enough time for Bray to shoot Blaise, run over, and bonk his head on something?

If it wasn't for the scream I'd say the death happened first - of course, that could be done by remote control? Otherwise its too conveniently pointing to Roscoe for me. But it could be a double bluff!

Tax Refund posted:

I think the lubrication line comes from the glove (not a bare hand, as no fingerprints were found) of whoever was holding the fake gun. That person (either Roscoe or Destiny) felt their way backstage to the rubbish bin, and tossed the squib and the replica gun into the bin (though in the dark, they missed the bin with the replica gun and it fell on the ground instead).

The note has a bullet hole in it because it was in her pocket when she was shot. And the bullet hole in the painting means that when she was shot, she was standing up on her stage position mark (stage position A), and the lethal bullet fired from the direction of stage position B. It could have been Roscoe who fired it, whether knowing or not knowing that he held a real gun rather than a fake, or it could have been someone further back.

The scenario I see is this:

Gloria is standing on stage position A, the note in her pocket. Roscoe has a real gun in his hand when he walks up to position B and pulls the trigger. Gloria is supposed to have the squib, but someone else triggers the squib just before the fatal shot, thus leading to the real blood being on top of the fake blood. (Why they did this, I don't know). It seems a bit much to have Roscoe doing all of that, so perhaps Destiny was the one to trigger the squib?

Your points are interesting and it definitely could coincide with someone feeling their way along the wall.

Though given the map it would make more sense if they went out the door rather than the long way. Also, the gun seems to be placed neatly in a box in the picture.

I think the lubricant being on the fake gun might be big to determined who handled it though? It seems like you'd drop the thing, especially if you were bumping into someone like Roscoe did!

PlaceholderPigeon fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Aug 6, 2015

Kinu Nishimura
Apr 24, 2008

SICK LOOT!
I'm pegging Justin Lawson for the crime! I've got you now, copper! :bahgawd:

Ghostwoods
May 9, 2013

Say "Cheese!"
Ugh.
SO. MUCH. TIMG.
:smithicide:

Tax Refund
Apr 15, 2011

The IRS gave me a refund. I spent it on this SA account. What was I thinking?!
Yeah, the statements don't add up. I'm particularly suspicious of Roscoe - why would you go back to your dressing room while the play was still on? But whoever's lying, someone is: his statement and Destiny's statement just don't jibe.

Good point about the door: it makes more sense for someone to be feeling his/her way from the door to the ladder. The fake gun was ditched right outside the stage door, then whoever ditched it felt his/her way over to the ladder (to attack Bray, I think).

I've been thinking about the suicide theory, and it can't account for Bray being attacked unless there's an accomplice to the suicide. Gloria can't have been the one who attacked Bray: in the suicide theory, she died from the first bullet shot, and the second shot was her accomplice firing off the fake gun (which would, after all, look suspicious if it hadn't been fired once.) So if Gloria deliberately planned her own death, then one of the other three was her accomplice - and since the accomplice would have had to be the one to scream, that means her accomplice would have had to be Destiny Knox: neither Roscoe Strapping nor Bray Clegg could do a convincing woman's scream. But Destiny could easily have screamed and been mistaken for Gloria - we only have her word for it that she recognized the scream as Gloria's.

That scream really bothers me, actually. If she was killed by the second shot, during the dark... why would she scream? Why would she have any reason to be worried? She got "shot" just as scripted, the fake blood splatter went off as it should, and now she stands up to leave the stage... and would have no reason to think anything was wrong until the fatal shot killed her. Thus, she wouldn't have screamed. But if she was killed by the first shot... she still wouldn't have screamed. So either the scream was recorded, or I need to suspect Destiny, who's the only female among the suspects (a man, even an actor, couldn't do a convincing woman's scream unless he was a REALLY high tenor). But it could have been recorded, which still leaves the door open to suspect Roscoe.

I don't suspect Bray, unless he's an accomplice. He could possibly have inflicted a single blow to the head on himself by hitting his head against the ladder, but multiple blows to the back of the head? No, I don't think he could have inflicted those on himself. I think he was really attacked in the dark, by whoever wanted to frame him. The killer hit Bray several times with the butt of the (real) revolver, just as depicted in the game image, and then put the revolver into Bray's hand while he was unconscious. Fingerprints aren't going to help, as both Roscoe and Destiny were wearing gloves... but if the gloves stained with lubricating oil turn up anywhere, they'll be useful evidence.

And here's another thing that's bothering me. If Gloria was shot during the blackout, why was she standing up? When you're playing a corpse, you lie still and don't move. So unless the next scene was supposed to be "elsewhere in the house", she shouldn't have been standing up in the first place, and the bullet that killed her should have gone into the floor rather than into the painting on the wall. That strongly suggests to me that the first shot killed her, but then we have to account for the scream and for the real blood being inside the fake blood.

...

Okay, here's a theory that seems to work. Destiny Knox is the culprit. She switched the fake gun for a real gun, then was standing just off-stage when Roscoe pulled the trigger. She knew the scene, so she knew precisely at which point he would shoot, and just before he pulled the trigger, she set off the squib via remote control. She then tossed the remote into the trash, and walked on stage in time to collide with Roscoe and draw everyone's attention to the fact that she was on-stage. Meanwhile, off-stage, Roscoe puts the gun down backstage right where he's supposed to, still thinking it's the fake gun, and heads to his dressing room just as he said. Meanwhile, Destiny swaps the fake gun (in her hand) with the real gun (on the ground where Roscoe left it), and feels her way down the backstage wall until she reaches the ladder, where Bray is. She knocks him out with the butt of the pistol, puts it in his hand, then heads back on stage, picking up the fake gun in the process. (Why put it down and pick it up again? That doesn't add up). She then screams (pitching her voice to sound like Gloria), fires the fake gun... and tosses it through the stage door before the lights come back up. And so there she is, on her stage mark like she's supposed to.

There's only one problem I can see with this theory, which is: why would she put the fake gun down and pick it up again later? It would make more sense for her to keep it in her pocket the whole time, but then that wouldn't explain the smear of lubricating oil on the backstage wall. Apart from that, this theory explains every piece of physical evidence in the scene. (As far as I know - if anyone can knock holes in this theory, please do so.)

EDIT:

vvvvvvv My impression was that the lights going out was a scripted part of the play (fade to black, set up next scene, bring up lights). If someone turned the lights out when they weren't supposed to go out, then how would the stage manager have been able to bring them up in a hurry when he heard the second gunshot? vvvvvvv

Tax Refund fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Aug 6, 2015

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
That's really nice, Tax. The squib hitting first is a good explanation for the order of bloodstains, given the unusual position of the trigger. I think a shorter explanation would be that Roscoe performed the backstage darkness shenanigans.


One outstanding question here is why/how the blackout occurred in the first place.

PlaceholderPigeon
Dec 31, 2012

Tax Refund posted:

Okay, here's a theory that seems to work. Destiny Knox is the culprit. She switched the fake gun for a real gun, then was standing just off-stage when Roscoe pulled the trigger. She knew the scene, so she knew precisely at which point he would shoot, and just before he pulled the trigger, she set off the squib via remote control. She then tossed the remote into the trash, and walked on stage in time to collide with Roscoe and draw everyone's attention to the fact that she was on-stage. Meanwhile, off-stage, Roscoe puts the gun down backstage right where he's supposed to, still thinking it's the fake gun, and heads to his dressing room just as he said. Meanwhile, Destiny swaps the fake gun (in her hand) with the real gun (on the ground where Roscoe left it), and feels her way down the backstage wall until she reaches the ladder, where Bray is. She knocks him out with the butt of the pistol, puts it in his hand, then heads back on stage, picking up the fake gun in the process. (Why put it down and pick it up again? That doesn't add up). She then screams (pitching her voice to sound like Gloria), fires the fake gun... and tosses it through the stage door before the lights come back up. And so there she is, on her stage mark like she's supposed to.

There's only one problem I can see with this theory, which is: why would she put the fake gun down and pick it up again later? It would make more sense for her to keep it in her pocket the whole time, but then that wouldn't explain the smear of lubricating oil on the backstage wall. Apart from that, this theory explains every piece of physical evidence in the scene. (As far as I know - if anyone can knock holes in this theory, please do so.)

EDIT:

vvvvvvv My impression was that the lights going out was a scripted part of the play (fade to black, set up next scene, bring up lights). If someone turned the lights out when they weren't supposed to go out, then how would the stage manager have been able to bring them up in a hurry when he heard the second gunshot? vvvvvvv

Good stuff! I like this theory. It also makes sense given our basic character motives - Roscoe has no apparent reason to kill his wife costar, but Destiny is listed as someone who is ambitious and could be vying for better roles while trying to frame another.

Yeah, to go along with that, there's no indication that Destiny is supposed to be on stage at the time. Roscoe bumping into Destiny was not in the script, and as a practiced actor, it would make no sense for him to simply collide with her. Its most probably that Destiny was not supposed to be there at the time. There is also the line from Baker " Ooh, I bet she were having a case of the jitters before her big entrance." - implying that her first entrance was supposed to be after. I don't think it matters if she bumped into him on purpose or not but it does draw attention to her being there and not backstage, yes.

As for the lights going out: We don't have enough data to say so but none of the actors seem perturbed by the blackout in their statements until the scream and the shooting happens, so its probably an accepted part of the play.

Regarding the gun: It makes sense that Roscoe would put down the real gun in the place where he would put down the fake gun - which is likely in the lubricant bath. Thus it's possible that both guns are covered in lubricant, and that by handling either gun (or reaching in to pick up the real gun) her hands would be covered in it and thus leave the trail of oil on it. So she doesn't need to pick up the fake gun until after. Also its possible that the lubricant would have stained her clothes if she had it in her pocket (of course, one wonders about her gloves too). Of course, maybe they don't care that the gun is slippery for the purposes of not dropping it too.

e: Corrected status of Roscoe and Gloria. Thanks Mraagvpeine!

PlaceholderPigeon fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Aug 7, 2015

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
All we have is " Immediately after that, the lights went out. " It's really hard for me to tell how to read that- you guys are probably right that it's in the script.

...Man, they are not giving us enough information this time around.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mraagvpeine
Nov 4, 2014

I won this avatar on a technicality this thick.
I see that you a few of you are calling Roscoe and Gloria husband and wife. You should probably know that they aren't married, and never will be.

  • Locked thread