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If someone holds a steady full time job, it kind of implies they're not entirely lazy and give some fucks about their life.
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Jul 5, 2015 01:14
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photomikey posted:If you want to be lazy and not give a gently caress about your life and work, punch 40 hours at the 7-Eleven and go home, then you deserve minimum wage. As noted by others, minimum wage will get you half of a two bedroom apartment, food, and a bus pass. I'm fine with that if that's all you want. It frustrates me when it's like "BUT HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE TWO KIDS AND RAISE A FAMILY ON MINIMUM WAGE?!?". Well, you're not. You want to have kids and a 3br apartment and a car and go out to dinner on Friday nights, get a skill and make more than minimum wage. Minimum wage is for getting by on. So get on with your bad self and live like that for all I care. But we have to keep everyone alive as long as possible Veskit posted:So the people you're talking about are the ones who don't want to work and those people should.... not have housing or money and should die or something? They shouldn't receive a livable stipend or housing or anything? You can give your money to those people sure. Why you think someone that has no interest in helping their community or themselves should get paid to be an rear end in a top hat, kind of dumb. I get that you want everyone to live in a utopia but that is not how the real world works.
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Jul 5, 2015 01:16
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goodness posted:You can give your money to those people sure. Why you think someone that has no interest in helping their community or themselves should get paid to be an rear end in a top hat, kind of dumb. I get that you want everyone to live in a utopia but that is not how the real world works. Nah dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MINCOME quote:...only new mothers and teenagers worked substantially less. Mothers with newborns stopped working because they wanted to stay at home longer with their babies, and teenagers worked less because they weren't under as much pressure to support their families, which resulted in more teenagers graduating. In addition, those who continued to work were given more opportunities to choose what type of work they did. Forget found that in the period that Mincome was administered, hospital visits dropped 8.5 percent, with fewer incidents of work-related injuries, and fewer emergency room visits from car accidents and domestic abuse. Additionally, the period saw a reduction in rates of psychiatric hospitalization, and in the number of mental illness-related consultations with health professionals. The Netherlands is working on a similar project: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dutch-city-of-utrecht-to-experiment-with-a-universal-unconditional-income-10345595.html
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Jul 5, 2015 01:32
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goodness posted:
I hate this concept that YOU are giving YOUR money to (insert whatever inaccurate, derogatory, half-considered description) people. What you are doing is paying your taxes. Taxes are literally the cost of living in a goddamn society. It's not your money anymore, and no, you don't get to decide how it's spent. You don't want to spend it on social welfare programs, I don't want to keep dumping it into our defense budget, your crazy grandpa doesn't want to spend it on The Black President's 'Death Panels'. It's not up to us. When people live in a society that ensures -everyone- can eat enough, sleep safely, receive appropriate health care, and access their civil rights, -everyone- does better. When people live in a society where "bootstraps" and "makers v. takers" are accepted as truth instead of the insane hyperbole manufactured by the ruling elite, -everyone- does worse. We are all in this together. When you were a kid in grade school, someone who didn't have children still paid their taxes toward your education. When you are a young, healthy person, you still pay your taxes toward Social Security and Medicare. It's called social loving responsibility, and I am sick to death of people deciding they can just opt out of it.
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Jul 5, 2015 01:47
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Mak0rz posted:Nah dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MINCOME Not jumping to anybody's defense/side here but I laughed at the quote for the study analysis that basically said 'working makes people miserable, sad, and/or crazy and things are generally better when people have more money'. This is shocking stuff here.
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Jul 5, 2015 01:48
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photomikey posted:If you want to be lazy and not give a gently caress about your life and work, punch 40 hours at the 7-Eleven and go home, then you deserve minimum wage. As noted by others, minimum wage will get you half of a two bedroom apartment, food, and a bus pass. I'm fine with that if that's all you want. It frustrates me when it's like "BUT HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE TWO KIDS AND RAISE A FAMILY ON MINIMUM WAGE?!?". Well, you're not. You want to have kids and a 3br apartment and a car and go out to dinner on Friday nights, get a skill and make more than minimum wage. Minimum wage is for getting by on. So get on with your bad self and live like that for all I care. Why is it frustrating to you that a couple works 40 hours a week and has the expectation to a reasonable standard of living, IE a room for yourself and each child, the ability to have all basic functionalities covered, and the ability to save a little bit of money so you don't have to live paycheck to paycheck? Why shouldn't that be an expectation? goodness posted:You can give your money to those people sure. Why you think someone that has no interest in helping their community or themselves should get paid to be an rear end in a top hat, kind of dumb. I get that you want everyone to live in a utopia but that is not how the real world works. Nordic countries run on this model very easily where everyone is guaranteed the right to life, AND to top it off they aren't as rich per capita as we are as a country. There's no reason why the real world needs to be this way. It's just the way this country is, but it's not what this country has to be. goodness posted:But we have to keep everyone alive as long as possible What the gently caress is wrong with that?
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Jul 5, 2015 02:32
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Veskit posted:Why is it frustrating to you that a couple works 40 hours a week and has the expectation to a reasonable standard of living, IE a room for yourself and each child, the ability to have all basic functionalities covered, and the ability to save a little bit of money so you don't have to live paycheck to paycheck? Why shouldn't that be an expectation?
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Jul 5, 2015 02:56
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photomikey posted:It's a great expectation! If you have that expectation, work up to shift manager of your 7-Eleven, then general manager, then district manager, then loving king of 7-Eleven. Have 50 kids and a 50 room mansion. But if you want 50 kids and a 50 room mansion, we don't need to increase minimum wage so everyone can have that... you just gotta get a skill and earn it. No one has said that they need a 50 room mansion and 50 kids. EDIT: Are we in the Wizard of Oz?
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Jul 5, 2015 03:00
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DismemberedLemon posted:No one has said that they need a 50 room mansion and 50 kids. I think that I implied that every child should have their own room, thus if you were to have 50 children then you would then have a 50 room... houspartment? Plus you know the fact that it's possible to have 50 children with your wife... Somehow.
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Jul 5, 2015 03:18
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While you're picking that apart and missing the point, could you also please point out that it's not possible to be King of 7-Eleven?
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Jul 5, 2015 03:43
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I'm definitely rethinking my stance on the minimum wage thing. I'm on board with everyone having a place to hang your hat and a full belly. I think some peoples issue is that they don't want to think that after pushing hard to get out of a minimum wage job so they can afford a place and put food on the table and have some left over cash for luxuries that some 16 year old kid is going to become a fry cook and be on near level standing with them. If a living wage existed, would people really look at a job like cashier at Denny's or ticket stub checker at the local theater as a desirable career choice? Doubt it. EDIT: NM, I'd try and quit my current job with benes and move to Hawaii where I would be a movie ticket stub checker (free movies perk) or go back to night audit. Apartment, car, food, and spending cash. But thats just me. Blackchamber fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 03:46
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Blackchamber posted:I'm definitely rethinking my stance on the minimum wage thing. I'm on board with everyone having a place to hang your hat and a full belly. And I'd be ok with you doing that. I do not know what you do for a living, but if the only reason you do it is for the money, well them go check movie stubs and I'll support you. If people felt safe, can you imagine what they'd accomplish? Wow. People who become doctors for love of the healing arts, not love of the dollar. I doubt what you do is solely because of money. Do I believe a ticket checker should have the same pay as a doctor? Of course not. But shouldn't the ticket cracker be able to eat, have a roof over their head, and have a night out now and then? Once you could support a family on your manufacturing job - jobs that took less skill than making a hamburger and serving it nicely to jackasses like you - but now those are gone, and this is what's left. Why not recognize and respect the need, and pay reasonably for it?
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Jul 5, 2015 04:40
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Veskit posted:
I get that its nice to imagine a utopian world where everyone can prance around, not work and live wonderfully enriching lives. Not how things actually work, but some people just can't separate what needs to be done from your morales. Nature is a wonderful model that we should continue to follow . What are all the fast food workers going to do when robots take orders and make the food?
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Jul 5, 2015 04:41
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goodness posted:I get that its nice to imagine a utopian world where everyone can prance around, not work and live wonderfully enriching lives. Not how things actually work, but some people just can't separate what needs to be done from your morales. Nature is a wonderful model that we should continue to follow . I don't know, work one of the other myriad of low-skill but required jobs?
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Jul 5, 2015 04:50
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Blackchamber posted:I'm definitely rethinking my stance on the minimum wage thing. I'm on board with everyone having a place to hang your hat and a full belly. Ha, good luck with that even if that. Even if they doubled the federal minimum wage you'd still be playing 1200 bucks for a 1 bedroom apartment and barely getting by in Hawaii. Trust me, it's what I'm doing right now.
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Jul 5, 2015 04:51
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DismemberedLemon posted:I don't know, work one of the other myriad of low-skill but required jobs? A lot of people can barely put a burger together.
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Jul 5, 2015 04:53
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goodness posted:I get that its nice to imagine a utopian world where everyone can prance around, not work and live wonderfully enriching lives. Not how things actually work, but some people just can't separate what needs to be done from your morales. Nature is a wonderful model that we should continue to follow . It already exists in the Scandinavian countries in which you receive a living wage if you work, and are given enough governmental assistance to live if you are unemployed along with education programs to allow you to re enter the work force with new skills if you so choose, have free health care, and if you're unable to work you're given a living wage so that nobody dies or is forced into extreme poverty, while they make less money per capita than our country. A reality already exists, we just choose not to have it because of dumbshoes like you who keep saying it's not possible, when it already exists. God drat you're dense.
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Jul 5, 2015 04:57
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Veskit posted:It already exists in the Scandinavian countries in which you receive a living wage if you work, and are given enough governmental assistance to live if you are unemployed along with education programs to allow you to re enter the work force with new skills if you so choose, have free health care, and if you're unable to work you're given a living wage so that nobody dies or is forced into extreme poverty, while they make less money per capita than our country. Sounds like you should move to a Scandinavian country so you can be happy living off other's work! Meanwhile I will be here building a community with people that enjoy life everyday and want to work together for each other. goodness fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 05:22
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Phanos posted:Ha, good luck with that even if that. Even if they doubled the federal minimum wage you'd still be playing 1200 bucks for a 1 bedroom apartment and barely getting by in Hawaii. Trust me, it's what I'm doing right now. No I don't think you understand the point of a living wage. Obviously they will just have to pay me a cost of living adjusted rate because I deserve to have an apartment and all my needs met, no matter where I am. What kind of living would that be otherwise? I obviously wouldnt have any other choices or alternatives available to me at that weren't soul crushing.
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Jul 5, 2015 06:34
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goodness posted:A lot of people can barely put a burger together. Nor cook fries correctly. Let me know when fast food fucks can get my fries right every time 
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Jul 5, 2015 07:16
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goodness posted:A lot of people can barely put a burger together. I'm sorry the guy at McDonald's forgot to hold the pickles but I don't think that's a reason to say he deserves to not make enough money to feed himself goodness posted:Sounds like you should move to a Scandinavian country so you can be happy living off other's work! Meanwhile I will be here building a community with people that enjoy life everyday and want to work together for each other. The first version of this post sounded like a much more convincing troll than this one.
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Jul 5, 2015 07:29
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photomikey posted:If you want to be lazy and not give a gently caress about your life and work, punch 40 hours at the 7-Eleven and go home, then you deserve minimum wage. As noted by others, minimum wage will get you half of a two bedroom apartment, food, and a bus pass. I'm fine with that if that's all you want. It frustrates me when it's like "BUT HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE TWO KIDS AND RAISE A FAMILY ON MINIMUM WAGE?!?". Well, you're not. You want to have kids and a 3br apartment and a car and go out to dinner on Friday nights, get a skill and make more than minimum wage. Minimum wage is for getting by on. So get on with your bad self and live like that for all I care. If the poor don't have kids, who'll do the lovely menial jobs that we all demand get done in the next generation? I assume you don't want your kids doing them. If everyone pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and magically got a management position, who would do the actual work? You and many others have nothing but contempt for the poor, yet you still want the fruit picked, floors mopped and shelves stacked.
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Jul 5, 2015 09:17
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MoosetheMooche posted:By the way, I know upwards of 20 people who have university degrees that are still working minimum wage jobs. And they aren't fat/lazy, drug addicted or single mothers. They're young people putting in a sincere effort to find a career, with degrees ranging from business to accounting to engineering. Same. I know lots of normal, smart people who have lovely jobs. People aren't robots, it's easy to get into a rut and get stuck there and just give the gently caress up. There's also luck--some people catch a break, and some people don't, but good luck telling that to the bootstrapping crowd. How many people get decent jobs just cause they know the right person? Hell, just recently I ran into a guy that tutored me in math when we were in high school together 10 years ago. Nice guy, got good grades, went to school for computers last I heard. I ran into him at Walmart, where he works in the electronics section. He's not dumb, he's not a weirdo, and I never got the impression he was lazy, but there he is.
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Jul 5, 2015 10:01
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At the end of the day it comes down to your wider view of society. Personally I believe everyone has the right to a certain minimum standard of living. In most 1st world countries that means you should have a roof over your head, food in your belly, clean water, heating and power and some small amount of money to spend on other things. I don't care if your lazy and listless or a bad person or what. If you work 40 hours a week and can't have those things I believe thats a loving travesty. If you want to work 40 a week and can't, either due to no jobs around you, physical/mental problems or children the state should pick up the slack. We could argue all day about the best way to achieve this but I will never be convinced that another human being deserves less than this for any reason.
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Jul 5, 2015 10:49
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Veskit posted:It already exists in the Scandinavian countries in which you receive a living wage if you work, and are given enough governmental assistance to live if you are unemployed along with education programs to allow you to re enter the work force with new skills if you so choose, have free health care, and if you're unable to work you're given a living wage so that nobody dies or is forced into extreme poverty, while they make less money per capita than our country. Phone post so I'll be brief. Norway has no minimum wage. Norway has a significantly higher gdp per capita than the US. There are a number of reasons the Norwegian system can exist, and it cannot be imitated fully even if the US were one tenth the size and non federal. I'm on your side but your argument is a lot of nope nope nope.
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Jul 5, 2015 10:58
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Not to mention one should fully consider automation. Think about your job. Most likely it can and will eventually be done by a computer. No matter what it is, it can and probably will be eventually gone. By your own logic, you will deserve to be homeless.
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Jul 5, 2015 13:05
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photomikey posted:If you want to be lazy and not give a gently caress about your life and work, punch 40 hours at the 7-Eleven and go home, then you deserve minimum wage. As noted by others, minimum wage will get you half of a two bedroom apartment, food, and a bus pass. I'm fine with that if that's all you want. It frustrates me when it's like "BUT HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE TWO KIDS AND RAISE A FAMILY ON MINIMUM WAGE?!?". Well, you're not. You want to have kids and a 3br apartment and a car and go out to dinner on Friday nights, get a skill and make more than minimum wage. Minimum wage is for getting by on. So get on with your bad self and live like that for all I care. gently caress you very much. It's not a matter of some Calvinist 'deserving poor' bullshit, it's a simple matter of business ethics. If a job is worth having someone do full-time, then it needs to pay them enough to devote their full time to it and make a living. Full stop. Anything less is exploiting the desperation of the poor by using it to get their labor cheaper than it costs to maintain themselves to provide it.
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Jul 5, 2015 14:44
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Liquid Communism posted:gently caress you very much. Please enlighten us how gas stations can pay their workers 20$ an hour. You act like everyone is a giant baby who can't fend for themselves.
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Jul 5, 2015 15:08
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goodness posted:Please enlighten us how gas stations can pay their workers 20$ an hour. If a business cannot pay its workers enough to live on and would go under paying it you have a poo poo business. If a gas station can't pay $20 an hour then it needs to charge more for gas or find another way to make money. All gas stations will be in the same boat or they wont and this particular gas station will go out of business becuase it was close to the loving rocks anyway.
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Jul 5, 2015 16:39
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goodness posted:Please enlighten us how gas stations can pay their workers 20$ an hour. They can stop reporting record profits and externalizing part of their labor costs onto the taxpayers, same as a whole host of other industries.
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Jul 5, 2015 17:03
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Liquid Communism posted:They can stop reporting record profits and externalizing part of their labor costs onto the taxpayers, same as a whole host of other industries. This is another horrendous example - their "record margins" are like 3%. Of all retailers, private gas stations have almost the lowest profit margins of all. For a decade it's been like 1-2% yearly profit. There is pretty much no way they could sustain a tripling of the minimum wage. Before you make some comment about fat cats in big oil, only 2% of all gas stations are even owned by oil companies, and of those, only 1/3 are operated by them. The fact that they display large Exxon logos etc. is just because they are independent franchises, for various reasons. Of almost any example you care to choose, gas stations are almost the worst. Large retailers with big margins can absorb the costs. The majority of gas stations are owned by individuals or families, and many would go bust. At the very least, they would cease to be independent and have to shack up with large buying partnerships. A minimum wage $20 would cause pretty massive job losses, purely by dint that it is an artificial imposition. Some areas and businesses can accommodate it with their current employment levels, others cannot. If we go back through history, the min wage was at it's highest relative state in 1968, and although a very different time, ignoring that and applying it today still only puts it at $11 per hour. A minimum wage becomes a necessary state introduction when the imbalance of power between employers and employees becomes too great, which is why they don't need it in countries like Norway, Sweden, Germany etc. It is 100% a double edged sword. It needs to be regularly updated, which may be difficult. It fucks up some business areas, where in fact they might pay higher wages without it due to the fact that lower paying jobs across the board can effectively just sit on the wage for as long as possible, where in a normal market there would actually be competition for lower paid workers. That's not great, but in that situation is where theoretical trade unions make the difference. I'd suggest that the average wage would be higher without the min wage, but concomitantly there would be lots of jobs in the US that fell below the min wage level as it is now. So it protects the lowest denominator, but punishes other jobs that might otherwise be $10 an hour. e: Germany is introducing a min wage of 8.5 euros this year, I think. Not such a surprise given the gradual erosion of employment rights worldwide in favour of business. e2: In case it's not clear, I'm very pro min wage, just think calling for a $20p/h in the US is just hopelessly off track. It would be the highest in the world by far, and there is just not way it's economy is set up to take that kind of wage hike. It is not Monaco or Luxembourg writ large. Cost of living is lower than the UK, and it would be double the UK min wage. Jeza fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 17:41
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catch22 posted:Same. I know lots of normal, smart people who have lovely jobs. People aren't robots, it's easy to get into a rut and get stuck there and just give the gently caress up. There's also luck--some people catch a break, and some people don't, but good luck telling that to the bootstrapping crowd. How many people get decent jobs just cause they know the right person? Yeah. I make 42k but I got really lucky that when I got passed up on my first interview, the guy they passed on me for ended up being an absolute dud after 2 months so I got re-interviewed and hired. I was seriously considering taking lovely jobs and that might have severely derailed my career plans. So much of the job search is luck that I can't really get onto anyone who is hosed into those kinds of min. jobs. They really need to make that stuff livable- as a bonus, it'll probably help said convenience stores when more people have more money to spend there, but hey, that's just me.
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Jul 5, 2015 17:46
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Jeza posted:This is another horrendous example - their "record margins" are like 3%. Of all retailers, private gas stations have almost the lowest profit margins of all. For a decade it's been like 1-2% yearly profit. There is pretty much no way they could sustain a tripling of the minimum wage. Yeah, on the other hand you've got chains like QuikTrip who already start their lowest paid employees at $11 an hour, report north of 12 billion a year in revenue, and makes both sufficient profit to make their corporation happy and sufficient goodwill to end up on Forbes' list of best companies to work for consistently. Not paying below subsistence wages isn't rocket science. Several retailers already do so and get good press for it. It just means accepting less immediate profit numbers in exchange for lower long-term costs of constantly training new employees as minimum wage buys minimum loyalty. Jeza posted:
$20's not a particularly reasonable number, nor one anyone's proposed seriously. Running with it is just letting the troll build a strawman. Hell, absolutely no one has even seriously proposed an instant hike to double the min wage ($14.50), even in places like Seattle where it's already going to $15 over the next few years.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:32
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Jeza posted:Phone post so I'll be brief. Did I say Norway? Also you're arguing semantics because wages are regulated by the government which is effectively a minimum wage on a case by case basis dependent on your situation. loving semantics. Plus the only reason Norway has a higher GDP per capita than the US is because of the sheer amount of money paid into social programs which counts toward the GDP. Also Norway has not a lot of people and a metric fuckload of natural resources. My overall point is that the US has the capabilities to have systems that countries like Sweden/Finland/Switzerland/Denmark/Iceland have in place but we choose not to because .... reasons? Conservatism? Bad reasons all around. Cast_No_Shadow posted:At the end of the day it comes down to your wider view of society. Personally I believe everyone has the right to a certain minimum standard of living. In most 1st world countries that means you should have a roof over your head, food in your belly, clean water, heating and power and some small amount of money to spend on other things. I don't care if your lazy and listless or a bad person or what. Pretty much Jeza posted:
I don't think anyone wants to argue numbers, but the point is that a federally mandated living wage should be applied to the people, and it's very possible to do so. Also you can hide a lot of info on the accounting books without understand the cash flow charts so pick your company that you're applying this dumb logic too and I'll explain it to you how they can afford it. A successful company mind you.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:34
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Most gas stations have only one or two employees working so I'm sure they can afford to raise wages a little bit? It's pretty simple, working people deserve to survive. There's not enough good jobs for everyone and the people too dumb/lazy/disadvantaged to get a good job still deserve to live a decent life. denzelcurrypower fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 19:04
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MoosetheMooche posted:Most have only one or two employees working so I'm sure they can afford to raise wages a little bit? It's pretty simple, working people deserve to survive. There's not enough good jobs for everyone and the people too dumb/lazy/disadvantaged to get a good job still deserve to live a decent life. But... What about the poor defenseless businesses and their profits?? 
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Jul 5, 2015 19:07
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Veskit posted:Did I say Norway? Also you're arguing semantics because wages are regulated by the government which is effectively a minimum wage on a case by case basis dependent on your situation. loving semantics. I just chose the Scandy country that best exemplifies what you were talking about. Nothing semantic in my argument because the gov't doesn't set their wages, they are privately worked out through collective bargaining with trade unions. Not sure of your definition of GDP per capita, but I understand it as simply a division of GDP by population. They have it so large because of their oil based sovereign wealth fund, their social programs have nothing (?) to do with GDP per cap. I agree that most large companies can easily absorb labour costs. But that isn't the point. 99% of the total number of companies in the US employ less than 20 people. More than half the population works for an SME. Minimum wage doesn't punish megacorps, it punishes smaller, less flexible companies. It seems arse backwards to on the one hand support high min wage and on the other put further power into the hands of a tiny number of companies that can leverage political influence on a worrying scale.
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Jul 5, 2015 19:09
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Jeza posted:I just chose the Scandy country that best exemplifies what you were talking about. Nothing semantic in my argument because the gov't doesn't set their wages, they are privately worked out through collective bargaining with trade unions. Not sure of your definition of GDP per capita, but I understand it as simply a division of GDP by population. They have it so large because of their oil based sovereign wealth fund, their social programs have nothing (?) to do with GDP per cap. Government spending is a part of GDP, so if you have large amounts of natural resources owned by the government, and you then take those and spend them on the people it reinforces GDP substantially because of how many times it gets spent into the economy. Social programs are very good for your GDP, which we don't do in america. Money does not flow downward nearly as much as it should because of the upper class holding the money because of their inability to spend it. Also you know if you have a progressive tax plan that punishes the hyper wealthy then you'll have the funds to help subsidize small businesses so that they can afford to pay their employees a living wage it's not that hard. You keep coming up with bad excuses when there's only a few economic changes you'd have to make. Lastly go argue with the US Department of Labor. Please be more right than them. http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm
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Jul 5, 2015 19:38
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Veskit posted:Government spending is a part of GDP, so if you have large amounts of natural resources owned by the government, and you then take those and spend them on the people it reinforces GDP substantially because of how many times it gets spent into the economy. Social programs are very good for your GDP, which we don't do in america. Money does not flow downward nearly as much as it should because of the upper class holding the money because of their inability to spend it. Argue with what? I'm still talking about $20 min wage here. I don't see why a survey saying just over half of SMEs support a level half that matters? I totally support it as well. Either way: http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/44995-MinimumWage.pdf Congressional Budget Office estimates a job loss level of one million for a $10.10 min wage, but on balance it just works out as beneficial. And it would be categorically far worse with a min wage of $20 and highly unlikely to work out. I didn't come up with any excuses. I'm just pointing to obvious economic consequences. Modifying the original premises to suit yourself is just meaningless. Yeah sure a $20 min wage will work if you tax earnings over $100,000 100%. You could build a magical fantasy society that makes Scandinavia look like a libertarian hellhole. But you can't just move the goalposts. Introducing a min wage does not guarantee a progressive tax plan. I'm looking purely at what happens if tomorrow the min wage went up to $20, as some have been suggesting in this thread. And I'm saying that it would be pretty crazy. It would almost be the actual mean wage of all US citizens currently.
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Jul 5, 2015 20:20
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Jeza posted:I'm looking purely at what happens if tomorrow the min wage went up to $20, as some have been suggesting in this thread. And I'm saying that it would be pretty crazy. It would almost be the actual mean wage of all US citizens currently. It wouldn't work well, but you're bringing up a point that nobody had brought up to begin with to argue an argument that has nothing to do with the thread to be right with yourself? Also thank you for linking an article that once again had nothing to do with my point.
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Jul 5, 2015 20:55
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