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Is anyone available to take over the Federation ship? Thantalos can't finish the scenario due to RL trouble.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:32
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Frontline Report May 165 Week 4 CA Enterprise engages C9 Terror - Enterprise is forced to withdraw with heavy damage, Terror sustains light damage. CA Hood engaged by D7 Vengeance, D6 Imperial, and D6 Hiding Fish - Hood is destroyed, Klingon ships are undamaged CA Yorktown engages D7 Challenger, F5 Dragon Sword, and F5 Dragon Fire - Yorktown is destroyed, Dragon Sword and Dragon Fire sustain heavy damage CA Intrepid engages C9 Atrocity C9 Victory, and C9 Carnivorous - Intrepid surrenders CA Valiant engages D7 Defiler - Defiler destroyed, Valiant withdraws with heavy damage CA Defiant engages D7 Nemesis - Nemesis destroyed, Defiant abandoned via saucer separation CA Exeter engages F5C War Lord, F5 Barracuda, and F5D Viper - Exeter forced to withdraw Frontline report - June 165 Week 1 CA Enterprise enters repair dock - will be repaired in 4 weeks CA Valiant enters repair dock - transferred to R&D as engineering testbed because repair is uneconomical CA Defiant saucer reaches Starbase 12 - converted to DD Terror reaches repair ship - repaired in 2 days Dragon Sword enters repair - out for 3 weeks Dragon Fire enters repair - out for 3 weeks Week 2 CA Intrepid reaches Klingon homeworld for victory parade. Crew is shipped to penal colony, officers are executed. Civilian base stations K12, K11, and K10 are captured by Klingon Empire along with 30 freighters - 1500 EP seized from United Federation of Planets Sherman's Planet captured by Klingon Empire Week 3 Gorn Confederation Declares war on Klingon Empire Kzinti Hegemony Declares war on Klingon Empire Hydran Kingdom declares war on Klingon Empire Week 4 Romulan Star Empire declares war on United Federation of PLanets Romulan Star Empire declares war on Kzinti Hegemony Lyran Empire declares war on United Federation of Planets Romulan Star Empire declares war on Hydran Kingdom Battle options: Federation - Klingon Fleet action (Small) - Federation attacker Kzinti - Lyran skirmish (small) - Lyran attacker Kzinti - Klingon skirmish (large) - Klingon attacker NEW OPTION Available - fleet construction management Players may now elect to take control of one or more (within the same alliance) nations naval construction program. 48 hours to vote for battle choice
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Oct 10, 2015 23:02
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That's really unfortunate. Thantalos, I hope things go well for you and things resolve themselves well.Gnoman posted:Frontline Report May 165 I keep forgetting these are TOS Klingons, not TNG Klingons.  So, I'd love to hear more about this fleet construction business! I'm interested in the Alliance side, if it matters. Also, voting Option 1 for the next scenario. Shoeless fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Oct 11, 2015 |
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Oct 11, 2015 07:21
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Shoeless posted:So, I'd love to hear more about this fleet construction business! I'm interested in the Alliance side, if it matters. The exact details will very from fleet to fleet, but here's the basics: 1. Each star nation generates a certain number of economic points from trade and a smaller number from core planets. 2. These points are used to construct ships, fighters, shuttles, PFs (once invented), drones, and base components, as well as research. 3. Fighters, drones, shuttles, PFs, and base components are manufactured on planets, each of which has a set capacity that can be upgraded. 4. Ships are constructed an Naval Construction Yards for their size class, each of which will be configured for a given base ship. For example, the Federation (which hasn't bothered to keep this a secret) has 4 Size Class 2 docks (currently configured to construct Star Empire class dreadnoughts), 6 Size Class 3 docks (Currently configured for Constitution-class (Refit) Heavy Cruisers), and 8 Size Class 4 docks (currently configured for Saladin-class destroyers. 5. When you order a ship, a die roll is made to determine the exact variant you get, with about a 60% chance of getting the current base variant. This represents interference from the various Admirality boards that might insist that you really need a new carrier escort instead of the patrol frigate you ordered or similar. Ships take a number of weeks equal to 48 divided by their size class (24 weeks for size class 2, 16 for size class 3, and 12 weeks for size class 4 units). 6. You may also refit ships to other variants - this costs you a ship, but guarantees you the exact model of ship you want. The time needed is (construction time for that unit times the % cost difference (rounded up) between the base ship and the new variant. For example, a stock Federation CA costs 125 economic points. A stock Command Cruiser costs 137, a 8.75%, which (after rounding up) translates to a two-week refit period at a cost of 12 EP. 7. Ships may be refitted at repair yards instead - this costs 5 times as much and takes 5 times as much (so 10 weeks and 60 EP to go from a CA to a CC), but doesn't tie up a valuable dock. 8. Shipyards can produce ships that they are not configured for as long as they are not a variant of the base ship. This generates a similar die roll for the exact variant and comes with a 25% cost increase (because the tooling isn't quite right). If the dock is larger than the ship, it can produce more than one - a dock 1 size larger than the size class of the ship can build 2, a dock 2 sizes larger can build 3. 9. Standard issue drones (Type I and IV of the current GA speed) are free, and available in unlimited quantity. All other drone models must be built, with each planet with a drone factory having a limited capacity.
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Oct 11, 2015 15:18
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Seeing as how I don't have a rulebook and just started an LP of my own, I think I'm going to withdraw. Thank you Gnoman for showing me this interesting and complex game.
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Oct 11, 2015 16:42
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That's going to make keeping this going more difficult, unless Xenocides wants to play.
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Oct 11, 2015 17:03
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It's fine, I'll just play both sides. Please play the other side Xenocides. Also that empire management sounds great and I'm so in if the LP can continue. Shoeless fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Oct 11, 2015 |
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Oct 11, 2015 18:00
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Gnoman posted:That's going to make keeping this going more difficult, unless Xenocides wants to play. I can hop in for a scenario or two but I am unlikely to be able to run an empire consistently. I can fill in for a bit though.
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Oct 18, 2015 02:06
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Xenocides posted:I can hop in for a scenario or two but I am unlikely to be able to run an empire consistently. I can fill in for a bit though. That's fine, as the empire-running is optional. Do you have a scenario preference? Shoeless wants the Federation-Klingon fleet action.
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Oct 18, 2015 02:56
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Gnoman posted:That's fine, as the empire-running is optional. Do you have a scenario preference? Shoeless wants the Federation-Klingon fleet action. Sounds good, I want that one or the Kzinti-Lyran action.
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Oct 18, 2015 03:16
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Gnoman posted:CA Intrepid engages C9 Atrocity C9 Victory, and C9 Carnivorous - Intrepid surrenders Wait, is this right? The Klingons already have three C9 Dreadnoughts on the Federation border? And they are operating 3 of them together as a squadron? 
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Oct 18, 2015 03:19
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Xenocides posted:Wait, is this right? The Klingons already have three C9 Dreadnoughts on the Federation border? And they are operating 3 of them together as a squadron? I take it canonically the Klingons do not have 3 dreads by this point? My my, this is gonna be interesting...
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Oct 18, 2015 08:07
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Shoeless posted:I take it canonically the Klingons do not have 3 dreads by this point? My my, this is gonna be interesting... I am trying to remember when the first dreadnoughts were built. It was right before the General War started and the Federation built the first one (a subpar version that needed two refits before it was comparable to everyone elses). The Klingons were second so I am thinking Y166-168 would be the range but I could be wrong. Dreadnought construction is 1 a year at most (except for the Lyrans who could convert theirs from an older ship). The Klingons were also unique in designing two different dreadnought versions. The C8 was designed for the Hydran and Kzinti borders and the C9 was designed for the Federation border. The C9 is objectively inferior as it just removes some systems. It was a cost-saving measure as some Antidrone systems were considered to be unnecessary when fighting the Federation who did not heavily use drones until later but the systems were vital for dealing with Kzinti drone swarms and Hydran fighters and the only other hostile border, the Tholians, does not warrant a dreadnought. Later most of the C9s were converted into C8s except for a few that were refitted with Stasis Field Generators (C9A class) and one that was sold to the Romulans. The Klingons might have 3 dreadnoughts but in the canonical SFB Universe they would probably not be all on one border and would almost certainly not operate in a squadron. Dreadnoughts are awesome in terms of firepower and shielding and a squadron of them would be scary but their biggest advantage from a strategic point of view is their extensive Command and Control capabilities. Dreadnoughts are the only ships that can lead a full fleet. The Klingons were very short on command ships in this period and would not give up command of three fleets to make a squadron up. Better to just put together a trio of cruisers with maybe a command cruiser. The only time you would realistically expect to see three dreadnoughts operating together would be in a capitol world assault and even then they would most likely be leading different fleets in waves. Of course in actual play of SFB mano e mano duels between battleships and dreadnoughts are commonly played but they are very rare in the published history. Two Kzinti Space Control Ships (Dreadnoughts with fighter and PFs) historically fought a duel as part of a Kzinti Civil War but that was by mutual agreement. Both sides were concerned that if the war continued consuming resources and blowing up ships the Kzinti Hegemony would be left vulnerable to the Klingons and the Lyrans. Anyways, I spent way too much time playing SFB and F&E back in High School. 
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Oct 18, 2015 08:26
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Huh, neat! So, either the Klingons are being rather boneheaded here, oooor they've come up with a solution to their C&C problems?
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Oct 18, 2015 08:42
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Shoeless posted:Huh, neat! So, either the Klingons are being rather boneheaded here, oooor they've come up with a solution to their C&C problems? Well, usually dreadnoughts command a full fleet which is usually 12 ships total (command rating of 10 not counting the command ship and a free scout). A Command Cruiser or Battlecruiser (not built yet) can lead a fleet of 11 (command rating 9). A Cruiser can lead 10 (command rating 8). The lowest Command rating is usually 3 (even frigates and police ships can do that) so they could lead a squadron of 6 ships if they include a scout (maybe if a frigate scout was available). More usually frigates operate in groups of 3 with one command frigate and two supporting frigates. Losing a dreadnought hurts as it cuts down your ability to concentrate firepower. Canonically the Romulans had lots of problems as they lost a lot of their dreadnoughts (some on very effective raids) and were coming up with ad hoc replacements to try to fill the gap with mixed results (overgunned ships that developed problems using their weapons effectively). The Klingons never had to try to turn battlecruisers into dreadnoughts so they never hit this problem as hard. One solution to the early Klingon shortage of command ships in Federation and Empire (the strategic SFB game) is mixed Klingo-Lyran fleets with Lyran command ships but then the fleet has to be at least 50% Lyran. So you see a lot of half and half fleets. It is a partial solution but later the Klingons usually have enough Dreadnoughts (not as many as they want but you can't have everything) and may even be building their B10 boondoggle battleships. Edit: Though most likely Gnoman went with it because it sounded cool. Xenocides fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 08:54
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Xenocides posted:Edit: Though most likely Gnoman went with it because it sounded cool. That was part of it, but the in-universe explanation is that the Klingons weren't ready for the war (which, as I'm sure you noticed, is breaking out several years earlier in this alternate timeline). The four dreadnoughts that the Klingons currently possess (they built them in a bigger rush, but sold most of their C8s to the Romulans in exchange for fitting four of their prototype carriers with cloaks) were each intended to spearhead a fleet, but they didn't have the chance - Terror was on the way to his fleet's assembly point when the declaration of war went out, and the other three had just finished loading up on new drones. When the orders went out, every ship formed ad hoc squadrons from what was in the general area and dashed toward the nearest Federation border sector in an effort to strike a decisive blow. Also, one minor quibble - the C9 was originally believed to be the superior ship as it mounted Phaser-Is in place of some of the Phaser-IIs. While the C8 was defensively better once drones reentered general use, their offensive firepower was worse than the C9s until the K-refit. It looks like we'll be going with the Federation Counterattack, so I'll have a scenario writeup in about an hour. Pick your sides, gentlebeings.
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Oct 18, 2015 12:48
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April 7th, 165 IKV Terror Federation Occupation Zone Work Camp 96 (Formerly Deep Space Outpost K12) An aide approached the tall Klingon nervously - like all members of the subject races, he feared that their masters would become less willing to risk disobedience than before now that this new war had begun, and strict orders not to disturb the command staff had been issued. "Thought Admiral, we're picking up incoming warp signatures. One dreadnought-class, probably one of the Federation's Star Empires, a heavy cruiser-class, and three destroyer-class. Refueling and rearming are complete, but it will take a short time to bring the fleet to full power." The Thought Admiral barely seemed to hear as he slid a green marker on the hexagon-marked board in front of him. He spoke quietly. "It begins." USS Star Empire Approaching Deep Space Outpost K12, under Klingon Occupation. The PA system came to life as the Red Alert klaxon echoed through the now deserted corridors of the Federation's newest and mightiest warship. "This is the captain speaking. By now you all know that we're at war not just with the Klingons, but with the Romulans and Lyrans as well, and rumors of the situation are spreading. I'm not going to lie to you - not only are we fighting a two-front battle that none of us wanted, but we are losing this war. The Hydran fleet is mostly incapacitated, the Kzinti are focusing all their attention on their old racial hatreds, and our only useful ally right now, the Gorn, are tying down a Romulan fleet. If the situation doesn't change, we face total defeat within a year. That's where you come in. Long range scans are coming in, and it looks like we've caught the Terror with her pants down, and the rest of the ships don't look like too bad a threat. Could be that the Enterprise did more damage than we thought she did, or maybe the Klingons had a breakdown - those new ships of theirs were rushed into service same as we were, they've probably had just as many systems problems as we have, maybe we got lucky. If we can take her out, the initiative switches to us, and K12 is too vital a forward base to leave in enemy hands. We'll retake it if we can, but it can not remain in enemy hands. If we can't recapture it, we'll have no choice but to take it out as well, or at least do our very best to render it useless to the enemy. Let us make sure that the entire galaxy knows that this will be no short war, that the Federation will not fall before the full measure of our devotion has been reached." We'll move to the relevant threads once we've decided who's playing which side.
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Oct 18, 2015 14:58
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I will take the Feds I guess. Just hoping those destroyers have the plus refit or this force will be a challenge to fly.
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Oct 18, 2015 16:51
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Gnoman posted:That was part of it, but the in-universe explanation is that the Klingons weren't ready for the war (which, as I'm sure you noticed, is breaking out several years earlier in this alternate timeline). The four dreadnoughts that the Klingons currently possess (they built them in a bigger rush, but sold most of their C8s to the Romulans in exchange for fitting four of their prototype carriers with cloaks) were each intended to spearhead a fleet, but they didn't have the chance - Terror was on the way to his fleet's assembly point when the declaration of war went out, and the other three had just finished loading up on new drones. When the orders went out, every ship formed ad hoc squadrons from what was in the general area and dashed toward the nearest Federation border sector in an effort to strike a decisive blow. Okay, I just hope the dreadnought rush means they will not have the resources for B10s. While I did forget the K refit I disagree and believe the C8 is still the superior ship even pre-refit but that may be just an opinion thing.
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Oct 18, 2015 16:53
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I'm fine with playing Klingons. Really sad to hear the Hydran fleet is doing badly. Was the force that went to raid the Romulans the bulk of their ships? If not, do we know what's happened to render the rest of the naval assets unable to assist?
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Oct 18, 2015 21:11
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Shoeless posted:I'm fine with playing Klingons. Basically, they sent a core part of their fleet on the Romulan Expedition, and what they kept at home is being too badly pressed to do anything. To your threads gentlebeings, I'll have full briefings up later tonight sometime.
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Oct 18, 2015 21:21
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Well shoot. That force was the core of their fleet? Meanwhile the Klingons have multiple dreads... man, Hydrans really need to ratchet up their industry and production. WAR ECONOMY!
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Oct 18, 2015 21:35
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Shoeless posted:Well shoot. That force was the core of their fleet? Meanwhile the Klingons have multiple dreads... man, Hydrans really need to ratchet up their industry and production. WAR ECONOMY! Now you know why the Hydran homeworld was conquered twice.
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Oct 18, 2015 21:36
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Xenocides posted:Now you know why the Hydran homeworld was conquered twice. Really? Goddamn. Get your poo poo together Hydrans! Build all the Rangers you can! Flood the stars with fighters!
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Oct 18, 2015 21:40
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I'm sorry, I know this is really rude of me to do but I just can't do this. I thought I could handle a larger engagement but I just try to start making orders and my brain just freezes. I'm really, really sorry for this but I can't do this.
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Oct 23, 2015 00:37
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There's no stakes, nobody's going to bitch at you if you screw up, and it's just a game. Just sketch out what you want to do in broad terms, refine a little, send that to me, and even that will be enough.
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Oct 23, 2015 01:55
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Thanks for that. Panicked a bit. Okay, I'm in it to win it!
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Oct 23, 2015 16:27
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Battle Results: Klingon: IKV Abomination CAPTURED IKV Terror CAPTURED IKV Barracuda moderately damaged Deep Space Station K12 CAPTURED Federation: USS Robert E. Lee Crippled USS Crockett lightly damaged Federation Decisive Victory! Frontline report - July 165 Week 1 IKV Terror captured by Federation in the Second Battle of Deep Space K12 IKV Abomination captured by Federation in the Second Battle of Deep Space K12 Week 2 Skirmishing along Lyran-Kzinti border. Moderate damage to 4 Lyran and 6 Kzinti cruisers, actions indecisive Week 3 IKV Terror enters drydock at Earth, rechristened USS Victory. Repair and refit to Federation specs will take 4 weeks. New designation FC9 IKV Abomination towed to drydock at Earth. Repair and refit to Federation specs will take 6 weeks, New designation FD6 Week 4 Federation Old Light Crusiers Mississippi and Virginia leave refit. New designation CLV
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Dec 7, 2015 15:54
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Hey Shoeless, Good fight. Here are my thoughts on the battle if anyone is interested: My Play: I screwed up my approach. I should have focused on making sure that I did not lose my front shield on the first attack. This was going to make it very hard to bring my ships in for another attack. I was hobbled somewhat by the Destroyers. The unrefitted Federation Destroyer is designed for bombardment (and scientific work) and not conventional combat and they were a ball and chain on me slowing my other ships. My damaged destroyer was powering almost nothing to keep up with the fleet and the other ship could only power half its photons. I got lucky in the end game with the shuttle swarm. My intent was just to slow down the Klingons by using them as a quasi-drone swarm and soak up phaser fire and give me a chance to get my photons reloaded. I did not expect the suicide shuttles to actually hit and I am not sure if the attack was sporting as Shoeless may not have even known that kind of attack was an option. I also did not drive the Scout very well. Klingon Play: I am guessing you were Weapon Status 0 so could not engage effectively on Turn 1. Two things I think would have helped a lot. One would be to group your ships into a single hex or at least close together. In early versions of SFB ship explosions forced ships to operate at a distance from each other or risk destruction but the explosions were tamed quite a bit and now the damage you take is generally insignificant compared to the advantage of keeping your ships at the same range. I was able to hurt Klingon ships and take equivalent ranged fire from only a few. Second I would have thrown up a wall of drones on Turn 1 and 2 spaced out a bit to make it difficult for me to go around them. This would have forced me to fly wide around or use phasers to kill the drones. I would also have fired long range disruptors sniping at a forward shield on Turn 1 and turned off and engaged on Turn 2 or even 3 when phasers could be fully charged. At that point the power curve of the Klingon ships would have been much better then the Federation ships and they could beat the Feds in speed and manuverability to control the engagement. This would give the Federation time to destroy or occupy the station. The scout disparity was a big handicap. The Federation Scout based on the Destroyer is also an oddball because it have 8 scout channels. Most more advanced war cruiser scouts have 4 and most enemy destroyer scouts have 2 to 4 at most. This Scout is not good at loaning Electronic Warfare due to power shortages but it has an amazing ability to knock out drones. I also have my doubts that the Federation could have captured a Dreadnought and a Klingon cruiser. I am guessing the Terror could still barely disengage at speed though the Abomination might have taken enough warp damage to prevent it from fleeing. Federation ships do not carry a huge boarding party contingent compared to the Klingons (Klingon cruisers can operate as a poor man's commando ship) and it would stretch them quite a bit to capture two ships and the station. The Klingons would also have a good chance of blowing the ships before the Feds could stop them. I also realize it is partially for the sake of the narrative but one month to convert a Klingon ship to Federation technology? Presumably ripping out the disruptors and replacing them with photons. That's fast.
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Dec 8, 2015 05:30
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Xenocides posted:
The Abomination was literally a wreck - every single power system was destroyed, most of the guns were gone, and the boarding parties were pretty cut down by damage. I decided that -in that situation- the subject races would surrender no matter what the ethnic Klingons aboard would prefer. As for the Terror, there was so much warp damage that I decided it would be too slow strategically to escape, so your fleet could just park in the large blind spot created by the loss of phasers and board with an entire fleet's worth of BPs every turn.
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Dec 8, 2015 12:58
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Heyo. Thanks for your perspective Xenocides. You played a good game, And while the loss stings I've definitely learned from it. I think my biggest mistake was not grouping my ships together as you did and as me and Berryjon did in the previous match. I attempted to do so on turn 2 after I saw how you rocketed towards me, but then the various movements on your ships and the discovery of exactly what that DD trailing behind your fleet, plus warp engine damage slowing the terror, led me to abandon that plan. My second biggest mistake was underestimating your willingness to charge in fast on turn 1. I didn't think you would, or even could, go that fast while maintaining weapons. Then when I tried to use drones, it turns out you have an easy neuter for them, so.... yeah. You probably noticed the point where I found out what the EWAR ship could do and started to focus on it, but you were very good at not letting me get more shots off at the #4 shield. The suicide shutles are in the Cadet rulebook, it's my fault for forgetting that could be an option. I actually thought, given the mission briefing, that they were boarding shuttles you were sending to the station to try and set explosive charges/take it over, so once they'd fired their phasers I figured, why bother keeping distance they can't do mroe harm this turn, I'll get in close with my DDs and have them and the cruisers use their phasers to thin them out. I didn't notice that some of them had not fired, signifying that they might be suicide sleds. I did notice after they impacted my cruisers though! Overall, you played the better game, which isn't surprising giving our different amount of experience. But as I said, I learned a lot, and thank you for being my opponent. I do really wish you hadn't gotten that EWAR ship though. It making my drones practically useless until I took it out while all your other ships had at least 4 photons really made for a firepower disparity, I feel.
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Dec 9, 2015 02:07
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One thing you didn't realize is that you could fire all of your weapons over and over, while he couldn't. The Federation DD doesn't have enough power to arm all of the ship's photon torpedoes unless it goes very slow - it takes 2 Warp per tube, and the Federation DD has 4 tubes - that's 8 out of the ship's 15 warp power just for photons, and the ship's impulse engines are just enough to cover basics and add one hex of movement. That means it would have to cover phasers, movement, EW, etc out of a mere 7 Warp, which is a max speed of only 15 (7 Warp power +1 Impulse) if you don't charge the phaser capacitor or use any other systems. Xenocides entered the map at maximum weapons status (For the record, your force was roughly 130% as expensive as his in terms of BPV), allowing him to pull off one good strike, but he wouldn't have been able to repeat it- the Golda would have been limited to two tubes, and the Lee couldn't arm them at all (due to engine damage). The only other flaw in your thinking was underestimating the value of a drone that doesn't hit - a Phaser that shoots down a drone isn't shooting at your ship, a scout channel disabling drones isn't lending ECM/ECCM, and a tractor holding them off is consuming precious energy. Given your ammo capacity and the sizable salvos you could fire, your drones could have been a major influence on the game even if they were all taken out. Anyway, the Federation-Klingon front is going a bit static now that the Federation has a victory to boost morale - there's action on the Hydran-Lyran, Klingon-Kzinti, and Gorn-Romulan fronts.
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Dec 9, 2015 03:16
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