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Jonad posted:Buying up the debt made sense in 2009 when half the Eurozone was on the edge and Greece defaulting would put the whole thing underwater. But now the EU has recovered enough that Greece leaving wouldn't doom Spain or Italy, and the Greeks have so resolutely avoided getting their poo poo together that there's no point in throwing good money after bad. I'm wondering, what are some actionable policies Greece could engage in so as to get its poo poo together? Only thing I can immediately think of is funding diaspora institutions and granting passports to any and all Greek diaspora members who wish it for a very minimal fee. What Greece needs is an increased flow of capital remitances, and what better way to do so than providing a Greek right of return? rscott posted:Didn't greece try to stop buying German tanks and french subs and poo poo and the imf wouldn't let them? Solution: Source arms and heavy weapons purchases from Israel. What is Germany gonna do about it?
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Jun 28, 2015 20:37
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Sulla-Marius 88 posted:Not according to Nobel-prize winning economists. THERE IS NO NOBEL PRIZE IN ECONOMICS
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Jun 28, 2015 20:51
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My Imaginary GF posted:Final Solution: Source arms and heavy weapons purchases from Israel. What is Germany gonna do about it? Wipfmetz fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jun 28, 2015 |
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Jun 28, 2015 20:52
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Let's just use the euro politics thread for this.
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Jun 28, 2015 21:11
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Welcome back thread. So could someone more informed than I am tell me when default OR a deal will likely happen? Monday or Tuesday? After the referendum?
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Jun 29, 2015 02:14
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Cliff Racer posted:Welcome back thread. well tuesday is the big day this week, it's when Greece will be behind the IMF payments and also when many of the banks will run out of money without a new ECB emergency loan agreement.
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Jun 29, 2015 03:18
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Cliff Racer posted:Welcome back thread.
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Jun 29, 2015 11:05
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rip greece should have paid your loving taxes
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Jun 29, 2015 11:07
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what happened posted:rip greece should have paid your loving taxes rip greece shouldn't have expected france and germany to not try to gently caress you
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Jun 29, 2015 11:27
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Zeitgueist posted:rip greece shouldn't have expected france and germany to not try to gently caress you also rip estonia, latvia, and all the newcomers we'll do the same to
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Jun 29, 2015 12:04
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Peel posted:Loan-sharking/subprime is a good description, compounded with the fact that the loan shark has been giving you financial advice for years and every time you follow it your situation gets worse. Also the loan sharks helped you cook your books in the first place to convince themselves to lend you all that money.
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Jun 29, 2015 12:09
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Thunder Moose posted:They had asinine government benefits packages like 6 weeks paid vacation coupled with 80% retirement pay at age 53 and are now awestruck as to why they don't have any money; somehow - this is all Merkel's fault! Why do you hate vacation?
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Jun 29, 2015 12:12
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Zeitgueist posted:rip greece shouldn't have expected france and germany to not try to gently caress you I dunno, that was sort of the promise of the European project. A united Europa, in solidarity and common prosperity. Welp, so much for that then eh...
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Jun 29, 2015 12:38
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RIP Greece, brutally loaned to death.
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Jun 29, 2015 12:46
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So what's the exit strategy from the Euro here? Just boot Greece out and call it a lost on loans?
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Jun 29, 2015 12:52
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ronya posted:Greece and Turkey have despised each other since a Greek state was invented by Great Powers chewing up the Ottoman Empire and it turns out that there's lot of inter-ethnic enclaves and pockets that don't comport with nation-building, and ethnic cleansing creates a lot of bad blood, of which the explosion over Cyprus was merely a single instance. I'm not sure what you are getting at here? In what way was the Greek state "invented" by the Great Powers? The ERE was very Greek and controlled most of modern-day Greece until practically the fifteenth century, losing it only as a result of conquest by the nascent Ottoman Empire and its predecessors. Greek city-states themselves stretch back to antiquity and had been largely united (even under foreign powers) since, what, the time of Alexander the Great? As for the modern country, it was created (albeit with much smaller borders) after an eight-year long revolt and therefore owes its existence to international powers only in the same way that countries like the USA or the Netherlands do. Certainly it expanded over the course of the long nineteenth century culminating in the end of the First World War, but the same could be said of literally every European state east of Germany not named "Austria" or "Hungary". As for the presence of pockets of Turks in Greece - the comparison to the ethnic makeup of Africa seems somewhat odd, because there weren't any there until the area was conquered in the first place.
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Jun 29, 2015 13:20
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BexGu posted:So what's the exit strategy from the Euro here? Just boot Greece out and call it a lost on loans? Boot Greece out, buy all their assets at firesale prices under threat of economic sanctions or whatever.
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Jun 29, 2015 13:20
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Charlie Mopps posted:Boot Greece out, buy all their assets at firesale prices under threat of economic sanctions or whatever. Is it estimated that the Euro is going to significantly drop in value if that does happen? Is there is a trickle down effect to that will also effect the US/Other markets once they upon this morning? Should have just let in Turkey all those years ago.....
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Jun 29, 2015 13:35
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greek fire can't melt steel bonds
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Jun 29, 2015 14:00
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Austerity is working great and the only problem is that greeks haven't austered enough. If they just agree to cutting their eyelids on top of having already cut their nose supply side jesus will come down and reward them ten fold.
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Jun 29, 2015 14:02
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BexGu posted:Is it estimated that the Euro is going to significantly drop in value if that does happen? Is there is a trickle down effect to that will also effect the US/Other markets once they upon this morning? If the Euro drops it'll be entirely because of worries of greater EZ contagion, which is a far smaller concern than it was 3/4 years ago when we were facing a similar crisis point (which obviously didn't come to a head at the time). The Drachma on the other hand, that thing will tank to a fraction of it's value as soon as Greek banks open up handing people Euros stamped with "THIS IS A DRACHMA". ----------------
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Jun 29, 2015 14:12
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Narciss posted:If the Euro drops it'll be entirely because of worries of greater EZ contagion, which is a far smaller concern than it was 3/4 years ago when we were facing a similar crisis point (which obviously didn't come to a head at the time). The Drachma on the other hand, that thing will tank to a fraction of it's value as soon as Greek banks open up handing people Euros stamped with "THIS IS A DRACHMA". Isn't the whole point that Greece desperately needs currency devaluation and that this will eventually return Greece to growth? They should have fought for a better deal when a default would have tanked the european economy.
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Jun 29, 2015 14:51
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Arglebargle III posted:greek fire can't melt steel bonds
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Jun 29, 2015 15:00
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Arglebargle III posted:greek fire can't melt steel bonds I don't know man, Greek fire was pretty rad. Eastern Roman Empire did 9/11
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Jun 29, 2015 15:26
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I'm having trouble squaring the "Greece was the nation-state equivalent of a crackhead and no Greek has ever paid a dime of tax ever" attitude of many posters in this thread with Krugman's most recent blog post. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ogs®ion=Body Is Krugman using incorrect figures? Is he misunderstanding or misrepresenting the figures? Or is the "obvious crackhead" narrative just a wrong, dumb thing?
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Jun 29, 2015 15:31
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iPod = GF posted:Isn't the whole point that Greece desperately needs currency devaluation and that this will eventually return Greece to growth? Yeah, absolutely. I'm just doing some speculative commentary on currency movements post-Grexit. ----------------
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Jun 29, 2015 15:39
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Hellblazer187 posted:I'm having trouble squaring the "Greece was the nation-state equivalent of a crackhead and no Greek has ever paid a dime of tax ever" attitude of many posters in this thread with Krugman's most recent blog post. Pretty certain it's just wrong and dumb. There was maybe more evidence to support that narrative at the beginning of the thing, when Greek mistakes had put them in an untenable spot. At this point though, they've complied with austerity for years and the situation is far worse now.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:49
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Dijsselbloem's a oval office.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:52
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"Oh hey greek politicians who won't be here in a few years have some cheap money....we know your financials and know you'd can't pay this back now don't worry about it we're cool." "Actually wait no we want the money now. For reasons" "Well if you can't make it here's just enough money to stay open, please sell us all your infrastructure at bargain price. Thx." "^^^^^^^ again pls" "GREECE HOW DARE YOU DEFAULT DON'T gently caress US ON THIS!!" "Debts are very important they must be repaid except that wwii money we owe you."
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Jun 29, 2015 17:55
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Zeitgueist posted:"Oh hey greek politicians who won't be here in a few years have some cheap money....we know your financials and know you'd can't pay this back now don't worry about it we're cool." Ah yes, the timeless banking strategy of losing money by lending to people you know cant pay it back. I'm pretty sure every bank that lend money to Greece is pretty happy with their results quote:"Well if you can't make it here's just enough money to stay open, please sell us all your infrastructure at bargain price. Thx." Obviously great value, where else can you spend 240 billion on a country and be accused of profiteering? Those wily EU countries sure made bank with that deal!
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Jun 29, 2015 18:51
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IAMNOTADOCTOR posted:Obviously great value, where else can you spend 240 billion on a country and be accused of profiteering? Those wily EU countries sure made bank with that deal! You don't understand, this was all an elaborate ploy by International
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Jun 29, 2015 19:06
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IAMNOTADOCTOR posted:Ah yes, the timeless banking strategy of losing money by lending to people you know cant pay it back. I'm pretty sure every bank that lend money to Greece is pretty happy with their results I mean you say this like it isn't a strategy used by a huge number of financial firms. Student loan debt and sub prime mortgages are two good examples from the recent history of my country of this being a very popular tactic.
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Jun 29, 2015 19:34
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Austerity doesn't work. Or, at least, doesn't work very well. That's the problem, in spite of years of mediocre at best recovery the Troika still thinks austerity works. So, to them, Greece is trying to cheat out of taking its medicine. To Greece, they've done years of austerity and the result has been a continually worsening situation. It seems like the Troika wants them to suffer pointlessly based on bad stereotypes and their relative weakness. Germany is no more to blame than any other EU member. The people to blame are the policy makers that are too dogmatically attached to austerity to admit that something else needs to say least be tried.
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Jun 29, 2015 19:35
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IAMNOTADOCTOR posted:Ah yes, the timeless banking strategy of losing money by lending to people you know cant pay it back. I'm pretty sure every bank that lend money to Greece is pretty happy with their results Yes giant international banks don't do diligence before loaning. Right. quote:Obviously great value, where else can you spend 240 billion on a country and be accused of profiteering? Those wily EU countries sure made bank with that deal! Yes buying valuable long term assets low is a terrible idea thanks for schooling me on finance bro.
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Jun 29, 2015 20:11
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Next up: tell me how the poor US housing lenders were suckered by predatory NINA borrowers.
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Jun 29, 2015 20:12
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Pinely posted:Austerity doesn't work. Or, at least, doesn't work very well. That's the problem, in spite of years of mediocre at best recovery the Troika still thinks austerity works. So, to them, Greece is trying to cheat out of taking its medicine. At this point it's not really about austerity. It's about collecting the loving taxes so the state can finance its functions. Greece has failed to do that. On the other hand, gently caress the banks. Seriously, gently caress them.
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Jun 29, 2015 20:19
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OhYeah posted:At this point it's not really about austerity. It's about collecting the loving taxes so the state can finance its functions. Greece has failed to do that. Bullshit, it's about raising taxes during an economic crisis and making up growth predictions out of whole cloth, and forcing deregulation. Like austerity always is.
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Jun 29, 2015 20:29
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But agreed, gently caress the banks.
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Jun 29, 2015 20:29
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OhYeah posted:At this point it's not really about austerity. It's about collecting the loving taxes so the state can finance its functions. Greece has failed to do that. Aren't they running a primary budget surplus or very close to it?
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Jun 29, 2015 20:41
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Not enough to repay their debts.
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Jun 29, 2015 20:43
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