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Monkey Fracas posted:Huh, I missed the new overtime regulations as well. No more hiring two people to do the work of three and giving them job titles like "Sub Vice Assistant Shift Managers" or some bullshit, eh? Yeah, pretty much everyone benefits from this except business owners who want to keep wringing out free labor from their workforce. They'll either have to actually pay for the long hours they demand or scale back the hours to a sane amount and hire more people to cover the workload.
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Jul 1, 2015 20:58
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Shifty Pony posted:It gets even better: the DOL is looking to clarify that to call someone a manager (and exempt them from overtime if they make more than $50k) they have to spend the majority of their time actually managing. So a "manager" can't be someone who does 20 minutes of shift scheduling a day and works the register for the rest of the time. And they might up the number of subordinates to around five as well, but nothing will be certain for a few weeks or so. Rhesus Pieces posted:Yeah, pretty much everyone benefits from this except business owners who want to keep wringing out free labor from their workforce. They'll either have to actually pay for the long hours they demand or scale back the hours to a sane amount and hire more people to cover the workload. We've seen the response from the Retail Federation, or whatever, to the proposed changes, but I'm curious to see how it plays out over the next year, especially given that it's an election year. This doesn't seem as easy to spin as most Dem policy changes, but I'm sure the GOP will come up with some way to convince wage slaves that it's actually better if they don't get overtime.
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Jul 1, 2015 21:02
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Sir Tonk posted:We've seen the response from the Retail Federation, or whatever, to the proposed changes, but I'm curious to see how it plays out over the next year, especially given that it's an election year. This doesn't seem as easy to spin as most Dem policy changes, but I'm sure the GOP will come up with some way to convince wage slaves that it's actually better if they don't get overtime. "This job killing regulation penalizes anyone who wants to go the extra mile to get a promotion, eliminates crucial stepping stones to better jobs, and has a government bureaucrat telling managers what they are allowed to do instead of letting them do what they know is best."
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Jul 1, 2015 21:13
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Don't think the managers are gonna buy it. The ones I've talked to about their circumstances are acutely aware of bullshit inherent in their situation.
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Jul 1, 2015 21:20
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Seeing as how many companies have been updating their terms of services, seems like this is having a real "kicking the hive" effect, even though the bees are actively loving over everyone who isn't a threat whatsoever. I'd imagine some real odorous employment policy changes coming down the pipeline due to this.
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Jul 1, 2015 21:23
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For real, there's so many people in the US that know they're being screwed, but need the job too much to complain and have just accepted it. If they're going to be given an opportunity to change it without risking their job, they're going to take it. But that'll take the Dems really getting ahead of this and dominating the narrative, so yeah...
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Jul 1, 2015 21:23
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Shifty Pony posted:"This job killing regulation penalizes anyone who wants to go the extra mile to get a promotion, eliminates crucial stepping stones to better jobs, and has a government bureaucrat telling managers what they are allowed to do instead of letting them do what they know is best." I could of swore my local news ran an anti-labor opinion piece last night saying effectively "How will the poor businesses ever be able to afford this travesty of labor rules without going bankrupt? The greed of the laborers is going to undo civilization as we know it" and I couldn't help but get really mad.
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Jul 1, 2015 21:23
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Eventually we'll all be working for subcontracting firms that mysteriously vanish every time a labor suit is filed. And wouldn't you know it, another firm just opened up to take its place with all the same employees minus the troublemakers. It's too bad that labor suit won't pay out since the last firm went bankrupt.
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Jul 1, 2015 21:27
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Sir Tonk posted:And they might up the number of subordinates to around five as well, but nothing will be certain for a few weeks or so. My money is on them completely ignoring it. Outright rescinding it like they how they go back and forth with the Dems on the regulation about the Mexico Ciry Policy (support for abortions abroad) is one thing. This, well, it's real hard to imagine even Scott Walker getting up there and bragging how he will unilaterally remove overtime pay from millions of people. The part I can see them going after is Obama pegging it to inflation (he set the limit as the 40th percentile of incomes). Tampering with cutoff point growth rates is sufficiently technical and boring that you aren't going to see it on the 5 o'clock news, and it's hard to cram "index limiting bounds to a higher percentile of pre-tax income distribution data" onto a bumper sticker or into a chant.
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Jul 1, 2015 21:30
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PostNouveau posted:Eventually we'll all be working for subcontracting firms that mysteriously vanish every time a labor suit is filed. And wouldn't you know it, another firm just opened up to take its place with all the same employees minus the troublemakers. It's too bad that labor suit won't pay out since the last firm went bankrupt. More people for the block/wall once Glorious Revolution comes.
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Jul 1, 2015 21:30
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PostNouveau posted:Eventually we'll all be working for subcontracting firms that mysteriously vanish every time a labor suit is filed. And wouldn't you know it, another firm just opened up to take its place with all the same employees minus the troublemakers. It's too bad that labor suit won't pay out since the last firm went bankrupt. America needs the equivalent of RICO for labor, so they can hit the owning company.
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Jul 1, 2015 21:31
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Internet Webguy posted:Seeing as how many companies have been updating their terms of services, seems like this is having a real "kicking the hive" effect, even though the bees are actively loving over everyone who isn't a threat whatsoever. The company I'm at is usually slow as hell about everything, but 13 hours after this was announced HR was over in IT explaining new classification was coming to keep people as computer professionals for the purposes of FLSA section (13)(a)(1) so they wouldn't get overtime
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Jul 1, 2015 21:32
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PostNouveau posted:Eventually we'll all be working for subcontracting firms that mysteriously vanish every time a labor suit is filed. And wouldn't you know it, another firm just opened up to take its place with all the same employees minus the troublemakers. It's too bad that labor suit won't pay out since the last firm went bankrupt. Pretty much. It won't even be some crabby manager making the decision, they will take a page from the old UK Economic League and their index cards. Your social media profiles will be scanned, indexed and cross referenced, and if a pattern matching algorithm sees you match the profile of a "disruptive element" you will see the hours of your zero-minimum-time contract reduced until your new signals indicate compliance or you leave. But that will be more a problem for the next generation so all we can really do is try to hammer in electronic protections and labor standards before that comes about while hoping for the best
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Jul 1, 2015 21:37
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Fried Chicken posted:The company I'm at is usually slow as hell about everything, but 13 hours after this was announced HR was over in IT explaining new classification was coming to keep people as computer professionals for the purposes of FLSA section (13)(a)(1) so they wouldn't get overtime ... but everything about the new changes do, in fact, apply to IT workers, right? Since it's just changing the exemption threshold?
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Jul 1, 2015 21:37
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PostNouveau posted:Eventually we'll all be working for subcontracting firms that mysteriously vanish every time a labor suit is filed. And wouldn't you know it, another firm just opened up to take its place with all the same employees minus the troublemakers. It's too bad that labor suit won't pay out since the last firm went bankrupt. This is literally already A Thing among construction subcontractors and is a giant issue my union is currently having w/r/t organizing
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Jul 1, 2015 21:39
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Fried Chicken posted:Pretty much. It won't even be some crabby manager making the decision, they will take a page from the old UK Economic League and their index cards. Your social media profiles will be scanned, indexed and cross referenced, and if a pattern matching algorithm sees you match the profile of a "disruptive element" you will see the hours of your zero-minimum-time contract reduced until your new signals indicate compliance or you leave. Isn't there a TV show about this exact thing with the heroes fighting against their corporate masters?
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Jul 1, 2015 21:42
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GlyphGryph posted:... but everything about the new changes do, in fact, apply to IT workers, right? Since it's just changing the exemption threshold? No, because IT workers are explicitly in their own weird category where overtime doesnt apply already.
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Jul 1, 2015 21:44
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greatn posted:What the gently caress is it now where in every thread if someone makes a reference or joke to something, the next poster immediately exposing what the joke was? It's in every thread on every subforum. Everyone got the reference already! I realize this may be an unpopular opinion, but I don't mind the joke explainers because sometimes someone's joke will be a picture of a dead politician who I don't know by face or whatever. Presumably other people don't get other jokes as well.
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Jul 1, 2015 21:44
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Fried Chicken posted:The company I'm at is usually slow as hell about everything, but 13 hours after this was announced HR was over in IT explaining new classification was coming to keep people as computer professionals for the purposes of FLSA section (13)(a)(1) so they wouldn't get overtime I think the IT/Computer Professional exemption is based on the fact that a fair number of tech people are On Call status 24 hours a day and that really muddies up the water for time reporting. Does being salaried and on call mean you get paid for that on call time? I guess our corporate overlords don't have to find out because IT is exempt from the new rules! 
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Jul 1, 2015 21:47
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GlyphGryph posted:... but everything about the new changes do, in fact, apply to IT workers, right? Since it's just changing the exemption threshold? Unless more details have come out since it was first announced, no, because as it stands there is a loophole for "computer specialists". It's part a hold over from the 70s when these were last updated and part because they don't want to pay the network administrator time and a half because the server crapped out Saturday night DemeaninDemon posted:Isn't there a TV show about this exact thing with the heroes fighting against their corporate masters? I dunno I don't watch much TV. I took it from something that came up at a "future of the industry" talk I went to last month.
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Jul 1, 2015 21:47
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this_is_hard posted:This is literally already A Thing among construction subcontractors and is a giant issue my union is currently having w/r/t organizing The common issue here is to call all of your employees independent contractors so that you can dodge a whole host of labor regulations and (most importantly) not have to check if they are legally in the country.
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Jul 1, 2015 21:55
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Shifty Pony posted:The common issue here is to call all of your employees independent contractors so that you can dodge a whole host of labor regulations and (most importantly) not have to check if they are legally in the country. yes and quite frequently we will begin organizing one subcontractor and they will magically 'poof' out of existence and all of their former employees will be hired by other subcontractors, literally overnight. or they will 'fire' every one of their employees except for one and the subcontractor will subcontract everyone else out to a different subcontractor 
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Jul 1, 2015 22:07
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DeathSandwich posted:I think the IT/Computer Professional exemption is based on the fact that a fair number of tech people are On Call status 24 hours a day and that really muddies up the water for time reporting. Does being salaried and on call mean you get paid for that on call time? I guess our corporate overlords don't have to find out because IT is exempt from the new rules! The computerman rule was written 40 years ago when it was seen as glorified secretarial work, actually. They've kept it around because tech companies are super rich and love exploiting workers 90 hours a week until they crack.
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Jul 1, 2015 22:12
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We might see a change in exempt jobs as well, there's a bunch we don't know about what DOL is going to do. Although gently caress, it's going to be chaos if they drop the "computer specialist" exemption.  DemeaninDemon posted:Isn't there a TV show about this exact thing with the heroes fighting against their corporate masters? Sounds like Black Mirror, but I haven't watched it yet.
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Jul 1, 2015 22:12
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I've only seen a few episodes of Black Mirror but each episode is its own vignette.
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Jul 1, 2015 22:15
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uncurable mlady posted:No, because IT workers are explicitly in their own weird category where overtime doesnt apply already. So are managers. I wasn't aware IT workers were double exempt and exempt from the exemption rules on top of it, since the action being taken is specifically to benefit exempt classes of worker I had figured it would also benefit IT workers on account of their being exempt. Sir Tonk posted:We might see a change in exempt jobs as well, there's a bunch we don't know about what DOL is going to do. The changes reported explicitly and solely effect exempt jobs. If you aren't exempt, they don't effect you. Which is why I didn't understand why people were complaining about IT workers being exempt. It sounds like they are double-exempt in some weird way though I guess. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jul 1, 2015 |
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Jul 1, 2015 22:16
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this_is_hard posted:This is literally already A Thing among construction subcontractors and is a giant issue my union is currently having w/r/t organizing It's what Hostess did to bust their unions. Blame the unions all the way to the bitter end after they already took multiple rounds of concessions and the current round was effectively a death knell to the union already. http://peoplesworld.org/what-they-didn-t-tell-you-about-the-twinkies-comeback/ My older brother was a truck driver for them and his wife worked on the corporate side and both lost their jobs in the restructuring. Both could tell multiple stories of the mid and upper level management being dense, petty shitheads and driving the company into the ground out of spite for the unions. Management would purposely over-order raw materials and have hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions of flour and sugar rot before the bags could even be opened. Any problem with production got blamed on unions. Machine broke down? Goddamn union not doing their job upkeeping the equipment. Transmission fall out of a truck? Why was that union trucker driving like an rear end in a top hat to purposely make his truck fail. Raw goods rotting? loving slow rear end union labor is falling behind on production. Stubbed your toe walking to your desk? "Something something UNIONS  ". In their mind's eye everything wrong with the company was the fault of Unions, and everything right was the glory of the management shining through like a beacon among the union filth.
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Jul 1, 2015 22:21
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Hawaii Lawmaker Who Smashed Homeless People's Shopping Carts Beaten Up By Group Of Homeless: Report
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Jul 1, 2015 22:24
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I maintain my gently caress that guy stance
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Jul 1, 2015 22:28
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Okay, I've reviewed the FLSA and the proposed changes, and as far as I can tell IT workers are one of the few classes of employees who would definitely benefit from this rules change. They do not appear to be double-exempt in any special way, and instead are exempt in the normal ways, which means they are the target audience for this proposed changes which explicitly only apply to exempt workers, so I don't understand why people think it somehow won't help them. Can anyone explain what I'm missing here? Edit: Here's the section on computer-related exemptions: quote:Exempt employees in certain computer-related occupations may be paid either on a salary basis of at least $455 per week or an hourly rate of not less than $27.63. The proposed changes are specifically to raise that weekly threshhold, meaning it will definitely effect computer-related occupations. If you're in IT and making a salary lower than the proposed changes, your employer will be legally required to offer you overtime or increase your salary. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Jul 1, 2015 |
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Jul 1, 2015 22:32
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I'm curious to see how this affects the movie theater industry. Shift managers and titles like are pretty common with them. I doubt they make enough to qualify for these changes though.
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Jul 1, 2015 22:39
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Rhesus Pieces posted:Few people will complain about getting stiffed on overtime pay if they aren't even aware they're entitled to it. quote:The National Retail Federation, a trade group, has argued that expanded overtime will “add to employers’ costs, undermine customer service, hinder productivity, generate more litigation opportunities for trial lawyers and ultimately harm job creation.”
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Jul 1, 2015 22:43
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Shinjobi posted:I'm curious to see how this affects the movie theater industry. Shift managers and titles like are pretty common with them. I doubt they make enough to qualify for these changes though. The fact that they don't make enough is the point. If you make under $50k/year on salary, you have to be paid for overtime.
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Jul 1, 2015 22:44
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Little_wh0re posted:I maintain my gently caress that guy stance
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Jul 1, 2015 22:45
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These new overtime regulations are awesome. I would really like to see a media narrative develop where championing these regulations vs. slamming them becomes a left vs. right thing, with outlets like Fox slamming them. At least for people affected, I think this is the kind of thing that can break through a reality disconnect. I think one of the issues with championing regulations is that they can be very esoteric or too gradual to notice, so it's really easy to demonize them. These are the kind of regulations that affect a bunch of white people that identify as republican, and the effects will most likely be obvious.
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Jul 1, 2015 22:48
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computer parts posted:The fact that they don't make enough is the point. If you make under $50k/year on salary, you have to be paid for overtime. Hm. I know specifically they have this bizarre workaround for overtime. Days like Xmas Eve/Day, New Years Eve/Day, and Thanksgiving get you time and a half. That's the overtime they generally offer. It's garbage, but then again the solution to that is don't work at a movie theater.
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Jul 1, 2015 22:49
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Alter Ego posted:So Macy's just pulled the entire Trump clothing line from their shelves. Uhh, no, I think you'll find that Macy's didn't fire Donald, he fired them! Macy's... YER FIRED 
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Jul 1, 2015 22:50
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Shinjobi posted:Hm. I know specifically they have this bizarre workaround for overtime. Days like Xmas Eve/Day, New Years Eve/Day, and Thanksgiving get you time and a half. That's the overtime they generally offer. It's garbage, but then again the solution to that is don't work at a movie theater. That's a voluntary procedure. What I'm talking about is mandatory if you work >40 hours/week and earn under $50k.
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Jul 1, 2015 22:50
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Warcabbit posted:Work just renomalized everyone's salary to a 35 hour work week with an hour lunch, instead of the 40 hour work week with assumed lunch. I can only assume the new overtime regs are related. Who's your employer? They sound especially awful. Luigi Thirty posted:The computerman rule was written 40 years ago when it was seen as glorified secretarial work, actually. They've kept it around because tech companies are super rich and love exploiting workers 90 hours a week until they crack. See: The entire video game industry. If Obama has the authority to have the DoL change exemptions I hope they do it for tech workers, especially IT, because gently caress anyone who thinks being on call 24/7 shouldn't get you paid drat well since it can screw withyour personal life at pretty much any time. Shageletic posted:Hawaii Lawmaker Who Smashed Homeless People's Shopping Carts Beaten Up By Group Of Homeless: Report Sadly only a concussion and the guy's still an unrepentant shithead. GlyphGryph posted:Okay, I've reviewed the FLSA and the proposed changes, and as far as I can tell IT workers are one of the few classes of employees who would definitely benefit from this rules change. Good. Does the overtime pay stop once their pay for the year would hit the threshold or is it where the company could just bump their pay to the new threshold and never pay overtime vs paying, say, 45k base and having to pay another 20k in overtime? (not currently in IT but got plenty of friends who are and they deserve better).
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Jul 1, 2015 22:52
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Shinjobi posted:I'm curious to see how this affects the movie theater industry. Shift managers and titles like are pretty common with them. I doubt they make enough to qualify for these changes though. Pretty much any place that has a cash register abuses the term "shift managers" to get free labor. I've got some friends who are case managers who routinely put in 70-90 hour weeks and have their 30k a year exempt from overtime due to being "professionals". Will this mean anything for them?
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