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I'm not well versed in theology, but it's kind of fascinating to me how many Evangelical Christians just seem unwilling to budge on a lot of things. I do listen to a station out of Cleveland on occasion (mainly for entertainment and for content for the RWM thread), and I've noticed an unwillingness to acknowledge another person's viewpoint or another interpretation of one's faith. I'm also confused about the use of the term "secular" to describe politics or to describe one's artistic vision. It seems that even if you're someone who believes in Christ as your own personal savior, and you're someone that attempts to go by his teachings? You're still characterized as being on the side of "evil" because you're not in their small little bubble world. It also feels that it's consistently used to label people on the left to just sort of imply that their faith isn't guiding their decisions, or that they're -gasp- ATHEISTS. I also don't view the "West" or North America itself as being very "secular". Sure we're rather "commercialized", but it feels like true "Secularism" would be some place like North Korea, China or the former Soviet Union. Also what is wrong with having a "government" be "secular" to these people? I'm not saying that major religious holidays for example shouldn't be recognized by the government, nor should any sort of religious activities be banned. But what is wrong with a separation of church and state when it comes to governing the people?
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Jul 11, 2015 09:02
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It does feel that the "Red Scare" seems to have caused a lot of problems in this country in that regard. I would imagine that the "Baby Boomers" generation is really the last group of people touched by the Cold War and the threat of the whole concept of communism. Generation X'ers saw the decline and fall of the Soviet Union. Millenials grew up with no "Threat" for about 10 years or so after the Berlin Wall came down. If I can recall back in the 1950's for example, there were ads on the radio urging people to go to church during this entire time period, and seemed to imply the fear of nuclear war/communism in each of them. Almost an extra middle finger to the "Godless Commies" over in the USSR at the time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2OuJdNfJr4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R12k_GfAV_o Now? The entire idea is pretty laughable in a lot of ways. But it feels like there's still people (mainly boomers, mainly evangelicals) that hang onto that weird fear of us becoming some sort of Soviet Union-style state. The reaction that we saw after Obama's election and the use of the Hammer/Sickle by people like Glenn Beck sort of kind of shows what their mindset is in regards to every thing.
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Jul 11, 2015 20:03
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Yeah one of the things the right very badly struggled with was finding a new Great Enemy after the USSR fell apart. Really I think this why Islam started being drummed up and why they started picking fights in the middle east. You couldn't scream about the insidious threat of spreading communism so now it's Sharia law. Even that has kind of backfired in a lot of ways. Millenials aren't buying it because they just see that as being something that their racist uncle posts on facebook.  -Patriotism is viewed as satire and parody.9/11 happened for example. A lot of people in that age group saw what happened, and we also got caught up ..only to find that it was really dumb/embarrassing in hindsight. When you remove fear from the whole message? It really doesn't stand up all that well. It just becomes noise. FuzzySkinner fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jul 11, 2015 |
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Jul 11, 2015 20:28
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SECRET MUSLIMS IN GOVERMENT! SLEEPER CELLS! ANY TOLERANCE OF ISLAM WILL LEAD TO FULL MUSLIM LAW!!!!
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I was listening to some obscure Christian Station, and it was just bizarre how angry this one preacher was about how Christians viewed basic things now-a-days. He got angry that he felt Church Services had become like "MOTIVATIONAL SPEECHES". He cited poll numbers about how Christians viewed sex outside of Marriage, and got really angry over it. He then proceeded to get angry at the Methodist and Episcopa1l faiths for being accepting of Homosexuals amongst other things. Getting angry at things ranging from Homosexuals getting a scholarship to attend the seminary, to a lesbian being ordained as a priest. My question is, will we begin to see more of a split between Protestantism if this is the direction that evangelicals want to go? it was really bizarre to me see how someone was so against another form of their faith and brand it as no longer being the same. Isn't the very basic ideology of Christianity literally "DO YOU BELIEVE CHRIST DIED FOR YOURS AND HUMANITY'S SALVATION? YES? GOOD. GO ACT MORE LIKE HIM".? If so, doesn't that not exactly make someone with a different view on the faith the same? FuzzySkinner fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Jul 16, 2015 |
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Jul 16, 2015 05:33
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re: Satanists. I've posed this before, but is it safe to say that a lot of "EX-SATANISTS TURNED CHRISTIANS" are full of poo poo on a lot of things? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpGRrS7p68s Take Kenny Powers here. I'm just really doubting he knows a loving thing about Poke Mon, yet seems to just mark it as being satanist.
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Jul 16, 2015 17:25
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The whole "END OF DAYS" thing kind of annoys me now, and it actually scared the living poo poo out of me as a little kid. When it really shouldn't have in retrospect because...well...I mean, who the hell was going to kick start armageddon back then? (pre-2001. Let me make that clear). I've also heard it in arguments that it pretty much is a major reason why Christian Media is as terrible as it is. quote:And it all comes back to the fact that Jesus could come back any minute, for real, like in the next four years even, and everything everyone has ever accomplished will all be gone. There's only one day left of summer vacation, so you may as well spend it getting ready for school. Life is finite, why do you bother living? Such is the legacy of the last book of the New Testament, the most obsessed-over piece of prose in world history. The very book that is supposed to give us hope for the future and reassure us that the problems of human existence are only transitory and something better is coming is the book which has robbed the modern Church of all but a tiny shred of its human creativity. The knowledge that the end is coming is supposed to inspire us to be ready for Christ's return, but Evangelicals take that to mean becoming Jesus zombies who think, speak, and write only in churchgoer buzzwords. In the history of Christianity, our generation is the one that comes closest to sounding like a Bibled-up version of Dilbert's boss. It also bugs me as a Christian currently because I think it implies that everyone knows what God is to do, and when he's to do it. The whole "Thieve in the middle of the night" sums it up. Hell I've heard "Dawn of the Dead" may have not been that far off biblicaly if we're really going to discuss potential Armageddon scenarios. http://biblehub.com/isaiah/26-19.htm http://theghostdiaries.com/does-the-bible-predict-the-zombie-apocalypse/ FuzzySkinner fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Jul 17, 2015 |
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Jul 17, 2015 02:33
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I think what we had discussed a few pages earlier is that their movement/influence is kind of dying because people are now being presented actual facts and statistics on quite a few things. Let's face it. It's becoming extremely difficult to keep playing the bible trump card when someone is able to present facts to an argument. You can't just slam a bible onto the table and go "BOOM. EVOLUTION IS A LIE. IT SAYS SO IN THE BIBLE.". No one buys that argument any more. You either have to adapt your message or find yourself facing irrelevancy. Same with gay marriage and same with women's reproductive rights. The argument really rings hollow when you go and slam a bible on a table insisting that this is how things should be, when the other side can simply point out how absurd the whole thing is. Via their own words, the bible's words or via (again) statistics and facts. Plus you know, people's own experiences with interacting with people outside of their own bubble. Very, very hard to take the whole "HOMOSEXUALITY IS A THREAT TO THE AMERICAN FAMILY" argument when pretty much everyone here has had to work with, been acquaintances with or even had gay family members. I don't think a lot of these arguments via Scientists and various types of people are done out of malice like these people seem to think they are. Bill Nye isn't attacking Christianity by not believing in it, yet these people seem to take it oddly personal that someone with a different view point kind of exists and tells them that they're causing a lot of potential danger as a result.
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Jul 17, 2015 20:20
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ToxicSlurpee posted:To be honest I think a lot of that has to do with how easy it is to get information thanks to the internet. It's becoming harder and harder to live in a bubble and harder still to force people into one. Watch stuff like the ex-Satanist and videos like that and one of the central messages is "deliberately isolate yourself and isolate your children for their own good." The fundies want total control of the messages you get and that's why I compare them to dangerous cults. They basically are just on a much larger scale. It almost feels like they're scared of being "wrong", which in itself is kind of silly. i don't think there's any top scientist that have just flat out said for example "THERE IS NO GOD. I HAVE PROOF. -insert generic internet atheist argument here-". Rather what we've seen is something along the lines "I don't believe there is a God, but only because I don't really have facts one way or the other. Therefore I cannot support an argument for one". Which to me speaks volumes to more so their argument and kind of puzzles me. if top scientists cannot disprove the existence of God then why be frightened of them? I would imagine if God does exist (which I think and believe is the case), would he not want us to grow in knowledge and become more intelligent about his overall creation as a result?
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Jul 17, 2015 20:40
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They made a Skylab playset for GI Joe? The gently caress? That's obscure as hell.
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Jul 17, 2015 20:51
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I went to the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame today for the first time ever. After you go through kind of learning about the roots of rock n' roll (jazz, blues, country, etc), you're fed through a segment about a group of conservatives, evangelicals, politicians, etc all being against rock music, and calling for censorship. One of the people featured in the video was someone who I have a laugh at when on the air via our local christian station was, Janet Parshall. In a video that was shot in the early 90's. It was weirdly comforting to know how much of a joke she's considered by many people. I've heard her particular brand of Evangelical Politics for the past couple of years while driving to and from work. She's completely anti-LGBT in the most "Bless Your Heart" sort of way, and is very much intellectually dishonest in her arguments. Also people were mocking her and other figures in the video. Calling them "Frauds". It's rather incredible how absurd they look, and still do at this point.
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Jul 19, 2015 04:08
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Now consider that these people were actually very, very influential in the 1980's and think about how terrifying it is that these people actually have influence over others. It's easy to laugh now but in the 1980's they were a very real threat. They may not have succeeded in instituting full theocracy or getting all the things they wanted banned but they managed to convince large sectors of the population to not allow their children to play D&D or listen to anything with an electric guitar. Well and it kind of backfired on them in a lot of ways. Short term? It did wonders for them among older Americans who were frightened quite easy by these type of things. It got them to send money to their "cause" and allowed a lot of elected officials to come into office. (The Fox News circa 1955-1985 if you will). Long term? Well....Uh, we've seen the results in recent years. I do think that although the modern day GOP field may say different? That the average American would have little in common with those lunatics, and would very much groan if they were stuck in a room with them for far too often. I do think quite often they get a pass from other Christians that probably don't share their narrow view of "Values", just because they're able to very quickly able to stamp the word "Christian" on it. The difference between say, a Southern Baptist and a Methodist for example are worlds a part, yet Joe Church goer doesn't really know that or know the specifics. Also a lot of people became more and more intrigued by the groups these people got pissy about and as a result? Started to listen to them more and more. What wound up happening was those groups wound up becoming probably more popular as a result, and people soon found out that these people were full of nonsense. You wind up finding out that the artists were pretty much Catholic, Jewish, or non-religious. Hell, SLAYER has a few devout Catholics in their group IIRC. You wind up finding out that everyone is pretty fallible, no one is perfect, including those within the church. You also discover that these artists are often using such imagery to seem "cool", grab attention or to make some sort of artistic statement. I was within a church and a christian school that pretty much frowned upon a great deal of the music I was beginning to get into. I kind of credit listening to new music and watching new forms of media as a result of me turning into the "liberal" I am today in a lot of ways.
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Jul 19, 2015 06:22
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Abner Cadaver II posted:You're confusing long-established Christian theology with American Fundamentalism, it's a very common mistake. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Only_movement Wow. Yeah I heard a raving lunatic get on the radio, and kept trying to proclaim that anyone that didn't follow that particular version of the bible? Was a "False Christian". He also started to rant on about how Free Masons were satan worshippers and didn't belong in the church. Claimed they worshipped "two gods" and such.
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Jul 22, 2015 00:48
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quote:They’re not converting people anymore (check the stats). They are no longer winning souls. They’re still selling a cure to a disease which people of this generation don’t even believe they have. But they’ve got to be about something. They have to matter to the world somehow. So now they’re manufacturing conflicts in order to have something to rally behind. It makes them feel more in touch with the early Church’s tumultuous beginnings. But it takes a lot of smoke and mirrors to make it look like the people with the most privilege in a region (like Christians in the Bible Belt) are being mistreated by the people who run things. Where I live, all the judges, jurors, and attorneys are devout Christians. So are the teachers, the principal, and almost all of the parents. There's a lot of people my age that are no longer attending church because of those reasons. Which is sad in a lot of ways because a good pastor can be very helpful in terms of helping out with one's spiritual and moral conflicts in life. I think when crazy evangelicals talk about this being a "LOST GENERATION!!!" they're right in a sense, but it's not because of Sex, Drugs and Rock N'Roll. Rather it's a good portion of the Church that has truly failed to reach them as human beings. It's on them. They are the ones that have failed the faith. People can feel very much alone and like we're in a cold world sometimes. It doesn't exactly help when you have the bible thumpers just throw out their dumb bit of logic at people, and really don't offer any sort of legitimate solution to the problem. FuzzySkinner fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Jul 22, 2015 |
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Jul 22, 2015 17:37
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When Evangelicals refer to the fact that they fear that Christianity is going to be "silenced" and all of the other talking points, do they only mean their own version of their faith? Like do they care about Catholicism, and say, Episcopals? I think I kind of know the answer already, because I've seen them rant against different sects for not apparently being hateful enough, but do they just consider their form of Christianity the only "true" version of it? FuzzySkinner fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Jul 31, 2015 |
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Jul 31, 2015 07:39
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If you guys want a great documentary on how the hell the Evangelical Political Machine works? This is definitly worth a watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWPJyV14F54 Here's how they felt on Jimmy Carter. At first they championed him pretty heavily, and viewed him as a good, strong christian man. (He indeed was) Then they find out that he's very liberal and pro-women's rights. That pisses them off, and it completely removes their support for him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFecoWKSU34 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5yPsEFHljw In walks Reagan, and the Moral Majority launching Reagan pisses them off by focusing on the economy, rather than on their own issues. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcRqMxzig1g Pat Robertson pretty much lays the ground work for nutjobs like Huckabee, Cruz and Bachmann to eventually run for public office/presidency. He comes very, very close to winning the nomination before (thankfully) NBC caught on and stopped that freight train of awfulness. George HW Bush looks at these people and finds he has very little in common with them, even saying so. Focus on the Family flips out over him signing a Hate Crime bill. Make note of the political strategies advocated by those within this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPS0iVhk510 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-36SgOI8ys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyhmN1Lyv1Q In the meantime while Bill Clinton is winning the Presidency twice during the 90's, we see the story of Dubya. Unlike his father? He IS an evangelical having been caught up in the fever of the times during the 80's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an-3b-jML_Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig4AjDljjCg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IMz0fM9cHg And oh hey...here's where a lot of were more so aware of what was happening in the world, and how much these people almost destroyed the country.
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Aug 1, 2015 03:28
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Listened to Janet Parshall again out of boredom to see what they'd say about the debates. She and her husband were kind of discussing the topics, and kept talking glowingly about how good people were like Rubio, Carson, and Huckabee. However, when the topic of John Kasich's response to gay marriage came up. Their cheery, sunny "GOD LOVES US ALL" attitude seemed to instantly shift towards this weird, seething hatred and contempt. It was very surreal because Kasich had a very normal, christian response to it. He came across as very tolerant compared to most of the field, and I actually commend the guy for it. Granted he could have been better with it, but compared to the others in the field? I'll take what I can get. It honestly frustrates me that these people are this intolerant to people that have potentially a a different view of the faith. They seem to scream for their own "tolerance" because they believe in their own way, but when someone dares to not directly go along with their "GOD HATES FAGS, SAVE THE BABIES"-rhetoric, they seem willing to just throw them under their bus at a moments notice. Doesn't matter to them that you're a Christian, do charity and do pretty much everything else that Christian's are taught to do. If you're not out there wanting to burn non-believers at the stake? You're not legitimate to them. In the end? I really believe it's this attitude that is going to do them in.
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Aug 8, 2015 01:31
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On the evangelical station today they had some pastor on the air sharing some sort of PSA related to "Captain America II" and it's plot revolving around drones. He then segwayed into this rant about how this was apparently going to happen to Christians one day because of their "MORAL ABSOLUTISTS BELIEFS", then signed off. I'm a tad bit confused about the idea of being a moral absolutist because I think life is a tad bit more complicated than what these people are making it out to be. I'm not trying to come across as a "THERE'S TRUTH IN THE MIDDLE"-type guy, but what I am saying is there's certain circumstances where "Black and White" doesn't really make sense in terms of thinking. Also it's incredibly silly because they rarely follow that aforementioned model very well. Example? Being pro-life and then pro-death penalty. But yeah, is this a common belief among evangelicals?
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Aug 15, 2015 01:58
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/oregon-bakery-cakes-lgbt-groups_55d880a1e4b0a40aa3ab25a4 .You know, I'm stuck relying on tips for the short term (in between jobs right now). On one of my deliveries I had to go to a hotel, and in said hotel the person tipped me with the following. -10 dollars (which is a very, very generous tip) -A gideon bible complete with information about their church which is some place in Indiana. I was very touched that someone actually cared enough to not only give me a very generous tip, but apparently cared enough about my soul that they gave me a free small form of the scriptures. I'm a (lost) christian, but again, that was very kind. Even if I was agnostic, atheist or a different religion? I would still be very touched by the gesture. Contrast this to the Oregon cake bakers. I'm a little stunned as to how self centered and passive aggressive this action is. You flat out gave a movie just to tell them you consider gays "dirty sinners", and then just continue on about how much you "love them". FuzzySkinner fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Aug 23, 2015 |
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Aug 23, 2015 02:59
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honestly I'm trying to be as sympathetic as possible to some of these people from the perspective of it going against one's beliefs. I'm trying to see it under the same light as someone having dietary restrictions or not being able to drink alcohol. But in those situations I rarely see, say a Jewish person bitching out Arby's for serving something with bacon, they just seem to order something else or go to a different restaurant. I'm also a (lost) christian .I struggle to see how baking a cake or signing a marriage certificate would go against my personal beliefs. It's just a cake. It's just a piece of paper. Both are really meaningless. If your faith is that weak that doing such actions shoots you to hell? You're a really screwed up person. I just don't see it. They just come across as petty assholes in the same vain of some racist dude who refused to serve black people at his restaurant back in the 50's would be. FuzzySkinner fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Sep 6, 2015 |
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Sep 6, 2015 06:49
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quote:"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible drat problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can’t and won’t compromise. I know, I’ve tried to deal with them. I just found this and a couple of other quotes from the father of modern conservatism.....BARRY GOLDWATER. I'm a tad bit stunned in some ways, but I think this kind of explains why I've drifted away from voting for the GOP. I'm being sincere, but I swear there was a time it was known as the "Suit and tie"/Young Professional party. Now? It's uh...nuts. To dust off and paraphrase the quote from Reagan. "I didn't leave the republican party. The republican party left me".
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Sep 8, 2015 06:21
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ToxicSlurpee posted:The issue is that, when it comes to gay rights and abortion and whatnot, those fights are unwinnable for the right. This is especially true in gay rights and women's rights. The world is headed that way whether they like it or not but all they see is Great Enemies fighting the real America. I keep thinking that image I had of a republican from a while back was someone that was successful, rich and just flat out looked the part. I never associated it with rural racist white Americans. I always associated it with the Gordon Gekko's, Stan Smith's and Alex P. Keaton's of the world. People that did things that harmed lower class Americans, but were not inherently done out of any sort of prejudice towards others. They didn't give a poo poo whether someone was white, black or gay...they just wanted to be greedy and make money. I don't know if the image or the "voter" I presented truly exists for the GOP any more outside of a few stagger ons. It's very much like you describe. They went from that to a bunch of hillbillies wearing beards that say things about how "Black people were happier during segregation". The evangelical movement has successfully destroyed that image. The Bush administrations has probably been the worst thing to happen to the GOP for quite some time, and they're still paying for the sins of everything that culminated as a result of those 8 years.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:05
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http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/09/09/megyn-kelly-interview-ben-carson-kim-davis-jailing-surge-polls I've heard this used as a code word before. Judeo-Christian doesn't mean "Jewish and Christian" I'm assuming, correct? Because I've met Jewish people and they rarely sound anything similar to say, Mike Huckabee.
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Sep 10, 2015 00:01
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It's like a bubble of some sorts. Every possible thing that doesn't fit within that bubble is characterized as being "worldly", "evil", "corrupting", "satanic" , etc. Anything that doesn't expressly say "JESUS" in it is condemned as "secular". I hold a lot of anger towards being in that bubble growing up sometimes.
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Jul 14, 2016 20:47
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