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7c Nickel posted:Most of the stuff I've heard about the Dark Ages from actual historians was pretty consistent that they were called "Dark" because of a lack of reliable sources to fill in the history, not because overall knowledge was diminished. Part of that also goes to the "dark ages" being a period of relatively stagnant technology. A lot of people assume that stagnant technology means stagnant culture and no art at all which is just flat out not true. Yeah not much development or education was going on and most people were illiterate subsistence farmers but assuming that nothing at all happened anywhere is ridiculous. Medieval periods were also generally not quite as awful as people seem to like portraying them. Mostly poo poo was pretty quiet. If there wasn't a war or a plague going on people really just farmed, drank, and hosed. Which was, you know, most of the time.
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Jul 30, 2015 22:01
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Part of that also goes to the "dark ages" being a period of relatively stagnant technology. A lot of people assume that stagnant technology means stagnant culture and no art at all which is just flat out not true. Yeah not much development or education was going on and most people were illiterate subsistence farmers but assuming that nothing at all happened anywhere is ridiculous. Medieval periods were also generally not quite as awful as people seem to like portraying them. Mostly poo poo was pretty quiet. If there wasn't a war or a plague going on people really just farmed, drank, and hosed. Which was, you know, most of the time. The medieval period was hardly lacking for warfare. Hell, the church had to intervene with the Peace and Truce of God just to keep the knightly class from constantly tear-assing around France wrecking poo poo up.
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Jul 30, 2015 22:04
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Aside from the language used to justify the futurist ideology, what separates these people from third-way movements that have been around for forever? I'm just seeing some run-of-the-mill fascists. You've got some enthusiastic modernists trying to recapture some former glory (or at least claim what is rightfully theirs), looks pretty similar to Italian Fascism. You've got some romantic, pagan-inspired enthno-nationalists, looks pretty similar to German Fascism. Then you've got a bunch of romantic Catholics who see theology as the breeding ground for a new thing that is neither Communism nor Capitalism -- which looks a lot like Fascism in Spain and Portugal. The only "new" element is the Protestant Fascism but both England and America had strong nascent fascist movements, it only looks new because we didn't trounce them in a war. I don't have a deep understanding, but how is it not run-of-the-mill fascism?
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Jul 30, 2015 23:33
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Captain_Maclaine posted:The medieval period was hardly lacking for warfare. Hell, the church had to intervene with the Peace and Truce of God just to keep the knightly class from constantly tear-assing around France wrecking poo poo up. A lot of the warfare at the time was also "set up camp around a castle, hope they starve before we do."
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Jul 30, 2015 23:37
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Shbobdb posted:Aside from the language used to justify the futurist ideology, what separates these people from third-way movements that have been around for forever?
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Jul 30, 2015 23:53
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Shbobdb posted:Aside from the language used to justify the futurist ideology, what separates these people from third-way movements that have been around for forever? That's more or less what it is, reskinned for the tech crowd.
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Jul 31, 2015 00:33
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It's mostly of curiosity because it's your typical authoritarians who think they'll be able to use the 21st century equivalent of alchemy to make themselves the immortal, supreme rulers of mankind in perpetuity. ...yeah, I'm reading the original Dune series right now, but to me it really does sound like they all really want to become Leto II/Bob Page, unironically. Also, it's kinda funny to see them try and reconcile fetishizing technology that's potentially equalizing and having said authoritarian bents eg. this article. For those who don't want to wade through NRx  , tl;dr "Technology is GREAT for individuals! But... it could be dangerous if the wrong sorts of people get their hands on it Therefore, technology should be ONLY for white male ubermenchen global rulers forever!"
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Jul 31, 2015 01:08
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Kerning Chameleon posted:It's mostly of curiosity because it's your typical authoritarians who think they'll be able to use the 21st century equivalent of alchemy to make themselves the immortal, supreme rulers of mankind in perpetuity. Man, their version of the future sounds boring as gently caress. 
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Jul 31, 2015 01:09
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Kerning Chameleon posted:It's mostly of curiosity because it's your typical authoritarians who think they'll be able to use the 21st century equivalent of alchemy to make themselves the immortal, supreme rulers of mankind in perpetuity. Actually there is a coherent thought in there. The idea is that in the future a desktop 3-d printer might be able to trivially manufacture a swarm of mosquito doom bots and kill everyone. It's not terribly elitist to think that nuclear weapons (or some future invention just as destructive) should be restricted to certain individuals. The novelty seems to be the wild expectations of the immediate future coupled with a reactionary take on the nature of leadership.
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Jul 31, 2015 04:01
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Shbobdb posted:Aside from the language used to justify the futurist ideology, what separates these people from third-way movements that have been around for forever? The fascist movements you refer to attempted to cultivate a mass base and seize political power. The ambitions of the NRx movements seems to revolve around utilizing technology to do an end run around any kind of serious political mobilization. It's a fascist version of the singularity, which is perhaps another way of saying that it's fascism for shut ins who would rather photoshop themselves as Magic the gathering cards rather than try to seize state power.
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Jul 31, 2015 07:32
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7c Nickel posted:Most of the stuff I've heard about the Dark Ages from actual historians was pretty consistent that they were called "Dark" because of a lack of reliable sources to fill in the history, not because overall knowledge was diminished. There was an attempt to redefine "the Dark Ages" so the term would refer to the lack of information, but I believe the current consensus is that the term should be ditched entirely.
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Jul 31, 2015 12:58
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Dahn posted:Interesting I always considered Mussolini's flavor to be a cut and paste job that replaced "Aryan" with "Aryan and Mediterranean". Yeah no, the dark ages were the way they were because you had a general break down of a society, the church actually was pretty active in salvaging what was left.
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Jul 31, 2015 17:10
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Crowsbeak posted:Yeah no, the dark ages were the way they were because you had a general break down of a society, the church actually was pretty active in salvaging what was left. Is this where we bust out that TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCEMENT graph that goes flat for 1000 years because of "the church"?
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Jul 31, 2015 17:22
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Luigi Thirty posted:Is this where we bust out that TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCEMENT graph that goes flat for 1000 years because of "the church"?
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Jul 31, 2015 17:28
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Guavanaut posted:Is that the one where it goes into the future and the singularity is stopped by the Muslamic Dark Ages? That's the new one, yeah.
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Jul 31, 2015 17:30
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Guavanaut posted:Is that the one where it goes into the future and the singularity is stopped by the Muslamic Dark Ages? There's an older one that stops at the present day.
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Jul 31, 2015 17:34
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I haven't seen this new one. e: okay now I have lmao
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Jul 31, 2015 17:59
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Peel posted:I haven't seen this new one. Because I spent all this effort I'll post it anyway: 
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Jul 31, 2015 18:01
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I like how it goes down below ancient Egypt as if we became literal cavemen during the medieval period. As if any sort of technology just vanished during that period. Yeah totally, we forgot how to use iron and wrote in hieroglyphs again, right? Let's just totally ignore that metalworking and masonry got progressively (but slowly) better during those several centuries. As did seafaring. Let's also just assume that people dressed exactly the same for like 800 years and nobody painted anything or made a statue anywhere.
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Jul 31, 2015 18:06
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Helsing posted:The fascist movements you refer to attempted to cultivate a mass base and seize political power. The ambitions of the NRx movements seems to revolve around utilizing technology to do an end run around any kind of serious political mobilization. It's a fascist version of the singularity, which is perhaps another way of saying that it's fascism for shut ins who would rather photoshop themselves as Magic the gathering cards rather than try to seize state power. It's hilarious that they think the problem with ein Reich, ein Volk, ein Fuhrer is the existence of the volk.
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Jul 31, 2015 18:06
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I like how it goes down below ancient Egypt as if we became literal cavemen during the medieval period. As if any sort of technology just vanished during that period. Yeah totally, we forgot how to use iron and wrote in hieroglyphs again, right? Let's just totally ignore that metalworking and masonry got progressively (but slowly) better during those several centuries. As did seafaring. Let's also just assume that people dressed exactly the same for like 800 years and nobody painted anything or made a statue anywhere. History isn't party of STEM and is therefore useless.
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Jul 31, 2015 18:07
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Kerning Chameleon posted:It's mostly of curiosity because it's your typical authoritarians who think they'll be able to use the 21st century equivalent of alchemy to make themselves the immortal, supreme rulers of mankind in perpetuity. You know when ones thought process beigins to sound like Bob Page you should probably wonder why your thinking what your thinking. It wouldn't surprise me to find someone at less wrong suggesting a nanobot to keep the 'surplus population of the dumb people down'. computer parts posted:Because I spent all this effort I'll post it anyway: Lmfao. I mean these guys do understand that technology generally went forward after the Romans collapsed? the heavy plow made it so that Germany was a place most people could live, the stirrup changed warfare, Horse collars changed plowing, revolutions in the developments of cranes allowed peoples to build structures the classical Romans and Hellenes couldn't hever have dreamed of, Hour glasses revolutionized time keeping. I just as someone who has a little bit of knowledge both of the Eastern Roman and Islamic golden ages and as some with a bit of knowledge of the middle ages am astounded by the stupidity in such a graph.
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Jul 31, 2015 18:09
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Don't forget that the 'transhuman renaissance' is going to start at what looks like early 19th century levels of technology. And lead straight into the singularity. There was quite a bit of improvement in using cams, pegs, and shafts as mechanisms in the 'dark ages' too, and the improvements in wind and water mills that allowed for. Apparently the Church in that period developed the precursors of modern management science, which were invaluable in forming modern cities, and made some interesting developments in philosophy too.
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Jul 31, 2015 18:29
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I wonder what they think Asia was up to during that period.
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Jul 31, 2015 18:31
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Peel posted:I wonder what they think Asia was up to during that period. Probably a highly romanticized version of whatever they've gleaned from video games and anime, if anything at all.
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Jul 31, 2015 18:35
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Peel posted:I wonder what they think Asia was up to during that period. Inventing gunpowder but failing to use it correctly. loving fireworks. Pfah.
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Jul 31, 2015 19:35
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And rocket propelled arrows. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gmFep_UqAo
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Jul 31, 2015 19:42
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computer parts posted:Because I spent all this effort I'll post it anyway: 
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Jul 31, 2015 19:47
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The NRx Overton window: e: Also  at the fact that they don't have anything left of the SPLC.  
Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Jul 31, 2015 |
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Jul 31, 2015 22:20
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Does the "race gap" just mean "we are too racist to appeal to beyond here"?
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Jul 31, 2015 22:22
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The "race gap" means that "fleet of foot" Ron Paul and "Front National" Le Pen don't talk about race enough for their liking.
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Jul 31, 2015 22:26
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Abner Cadaver II posted:Does the "race gap" just mean "we are too racist to appeal to beyond here"? i'm going to assume so given that they want to bring up lower average IQ of black people as an important issue that needs to be discussed in the mainstream
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Jul 31, 2015 22:26
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Guavanaut posted:The NRx Overton window: Author of that pic is probably 5-6 months from getting complete brain rot from consuming /pol/ discourse I googled who the hell is Ramzpaul and apparently it is some middle aged dude on youtube tackling such important questions as "San Diego Comic Con - Can Girls Be Geeks?" and "#cuckservatives and #cuck-stians"
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Jul 31, 2015 22:37
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Inventing gunpowder but failing to use it correctly. Well, some tried. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8wiNv6laU8
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Jul 31, 2015 22:38
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Guavanaut posted:Don't forget that the 'transhuman renaissance' is going to start at what looks like early 19th century levels of technology. And lead straight into the singularity. That's what really gets me about these guys, they act like scientific progress in real life works exactly like it does in Civilization.
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Jul 31, 2015 22:39
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i'm going to assume so given that they want to bring up lower average IQ of black people as an important issue that needs to be discussed in the mainstream IQ: the universal intelligence measurement of choice for people who know jack poo poo about measuring intelligence! Discussing that in the mainstream would be good if it got through people's heads that IQ is only valid or useful in very particular circumstances. e: the Greeks took Messenger of the Gods as their pantheon belief and that's why they were able to rush to philosophy/drama so early
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Jul 31, 2015 22:40
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Abner Cadaver II posted:IQ: the universal intelligence measurement of choice for people who know jack poo poo about measuring intelligence! conveniently, these are the kinds of people who are already prone to believe in african racial inferiority
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Jul 31, 2015 22:41
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Nessus posted:Uh no I think you will find that the Church greatly reduced the average beakers per turn by burning the witches and also making people worship Jesus instead of Carl Sagan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Catholic_cleric-scientists There were a lot of systemic problems with the Church hierarchy and the exploitation of wealth, but creating a class of people who had the freedom and encouragement to sit around and really *think* about stuff wasn't anywhere near the top.
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Jul 31, 2015 22:49
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Helsing posted:The fascist movements you refer to attempted to cultivate a mass base and seize political power. The ambitions of the NRx movements seems to revolve around utilizing technology to do an end run around any kind of serious political mobilization. It's a fascist version of the singularity, which is perhaps another way of saying that it's fascism for shut ins who would rather photoshop themselves as Magic the gathering cards rather than try to seize state power. I don't think WWII would have gotten off the ground if Hitler had photoshopped himself as a Magic card.
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Aug 1, 2015 00:47
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Hodgepodge posted:I don't think WWII would have gotten off the ground if Hitler had photoshopped himself as a Magic card. He probably would have painted it by hand, when you think about it.
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Aug 1, 2015 00:48
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