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In news that will surprise nobody, the popo have got away with killing Azelle Rodney. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/03/police-marksman-anthony-long-cleared-azelle-rodney-murder Pork Pie Hat fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 14:19
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Phoon posted:Your landlord has a legal duty to have your gas appliances serviced yearly and an LGSR produced (you should receive a copy as well). If they don't do this you can report them to the HSE.
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Jul 3, 2015 14:30
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Agas are loving expensive to run, and the floor needs reinforcing under them (there also a pain to clean out... I thought that 2 day course would be a nice skive, but then found out there are actually some in the area  ).Landlords Gas Safety Records - legal requirement to get it done every 12 months, landlord receives a copy within 48 hours of the check, and a tenant can request a copy (which should be provided within 48 hours by the landlord), but the tenant doesn't get one by default.
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Jul 3, 2015 14:36
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Pork Pie Hat posted:In news that will surprise nobody, the popo have got away with killing Azelle Rodney. From the Guardian article here: quote:No automatic weapons were found. Long told the jury that, as he prepared to confront the suspects, he was thinking of intelligence telling him they may have had Mac 10s capable of firing 1,000 rounds a minute. quote:A deactivated weapon found on the back seat where Rodney was sitting had not been picked up by him. Two weapons were recovered from the vehicle’s rear footwell, as was a gun disguised as a key fob. And from the Beeb article: quote:However, a search of the car later revealed that although there were three weapons, none were automatic and only one was loaded, the Old Bailey heard. No sympathy. They were carrying guns. Presumably they were intended to be used, as one was loaded. Cases like this are a world apart from the de Menezes situation - obviously it would have been better that they had been arrested and brought to justice, but if you're going to lead a lifestyle involving guns then sooner or later mistakes or misjudgements will be made and someone's going to get shot. Edit: It's probably an opportune time to remind the thread that our armed police discharge their weapons in 0.04% of callouts and kill people in 0.02% of callouts based on 2011/12 data. That's specifically as a percentage of callouts where armed police are present and have been authorised to fire. Edit2: vv In this case, he did have a gun. It was just on the seat next to him. Along with two by his feet. The only alternative to allowing that as a defence is to stop armed responses to reports of criminals carrying guns. It's worth remembering that this isn't necessarily some special 'police get out button' - a similar question would be asked of any member of the public defending themselves as to whether they were genuinely in fear of their lives. The burden of proof always has to rest with the prosecution. Also, holy poo poo. 10 years to prosecute! What a joke. Prince John fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 14:42
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It's really difficult to get over the "I thought he had a gun" defence - unless we invent a mind-reading machine, then any copper can use that defence and get away with it.
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Jul 3, 2015 14:48
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Prince John posted:From the Guardian article here: Well it's always interesting to see who has "no sympathy" with those summarily executed by the state. No need for a trial, or due process if the suspects were carrying guns, right? You say yourself that "mistakes or misjudgements will be made", and yet here is yet another instance where no one will be punished for shooting a civilian dead. Is that the kind of mistake you meant?
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Jul 3, 2015 15:22
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At least in this case the guy who got shot actually did have a loaded gun. Still feels wrong though.
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Jul 3, 2015 15:29
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Because it is wrong. Having a loaded gun by your feet should not be a crime worthy of execution. The guy was shot from a couple of feet away, close enough to see he didn't have a gun in his hands. If only there were a less lethal option available. One that was, say, introduced with the express purpose of being used to stop this happening.
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Jul 3, 2015 15:35
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Ehhh, saying his crimes don't deserve a death sentence doesn't really cut it for me. An active situation where someone may have a loaded gun is not a court of law - having a gun, even a loaded one, is not a crime which warrants shooting or death. But it wasn't a judicial punishment, it was an attempt to defend himself and others around him (well, assuming he was telling the truth, which  the police telling the truth).Also I'm with the guy asking why we don't have A/C these days, it's really reached the point of necessity.
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Jul 3, 2015 15:41
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Mr Cuddles posted:At least in this case the guy who got shot actually did have a loaded gun. Still feels wrong though. That could be because for the officer's story to be true, a 48 year old man would have to have reacted to an unexpected stimulus faster than an Olympic sprinter can react to the starting pistol.
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Jul 3, 2015 15:45
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Guavanaut posted:The 13th General Conference on Weights and Measures removed it, because they felt it was unnecessary. No other SI unit has a qualifier (unless it's really big or small, in which case it might have an SI prefix like kilo- or nano- (except kilogram which has one anyway because it's Surely the 'gram' is the unit?
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Jul 3, 2015 16:11
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Pork Pie Hat posted:You say yourself that "mistakes or misjudgements will be made", and yet here is yet another instance where no one will be punished for shooting a civilian dead. Is that the kind of mistake you meant? Nope. I meant that in any high-octane situation involving the pointing of guns, things can go wrong. That applies whether it's armed police, or other criminals pointing the guns. poo poo happens if you put yourself in a situation like that. Our armed police are incredibly restrained, as the statistics show. I don't think he should be classified as a civilian in this context either. The shooter was not a soldier trying to distinguish between other soldiers and civilians - the equivalent comparison is surely "armed criminal" or "innocent bystander". He was travelling in a car with multiple guns. He's not an innocent bystander. It's not directly relevant to the question of whether he should have been shot, but since there's so much hand wringing, how many innocent bystanders might have been killed by those guns had the police not acted? quote:Well it's always interesting to see who has "no sympathy" with those summarily executed by the state. No need for a trial, or due process if the suspects were carrying guns, right? Nonsense. I even said in my post it would have been preferable for him to have been arrested and tried, and I'm a great believer in the sanctity of the criminal justice system. I have no sympathy for him in the same way as I would have no sympathy for someone who shot themselves playing Russian roulette or crashed while playing chicken with other cars. If you're going to get involved in criminal gangs and cruise around London with guns, you've got to accept that you're opting into a high risk lifestyle. I don't think he deserved to be shot, but I'm not going to shed any tears if he inadvertently was. Ultimately, I'm happy to take my chances that I might be accidentally shot by the police, in exchange for having a law enforcement body that tries to stop armed criminals. If the chances of me being accidentally shot by the police ever rise from "vanishingly small", then maybe I'll reconsider. Prince John fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 16:17
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Surely the 'gram' is the unit? It's not; kilogram is the baseline SI unit because that's the one used in all the equations. If you used grams as standard you'd have to multiply every physics equation involving mass by 1/1000 for the result to be of the correct magnitude.
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Jul 3, 2015 16:23
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Okay I want to distance myself from Prince John despite my previous post. I'm also at an incredibly low chance of getting shot by the police, because I am also white.
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Jul 3, 2015 16:26
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Renaissance Robot posted:It's not; kilogram is the baseline SI unit because that's the one used in all the equations. If you used grams as standard you'd have to multiply every physics equation involving mass by 1/1000 for the result to be of the correct magnitude. quote:The reason why "kilogram" is the name of a base unit of the SI is an artefact of history.
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Jul 3, 2015 16:34
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Mister Adequate posted:Okay I want to distance myself from Prince John despite my previous post. I'm also at an incredibly low chance of getting shot by the police, because I am also white. I really don't want to go down the rabbit hole, but you are surely aware that knife/gun crime statistics in London offer another reason why people from black communities are more likely to come into contact with armed police. Has anyone seen a compiled list of all our police shootings in the UK? I'm not having much luck with google, but I did stumble across this nice "happy police" story, which I will introduce to show not ACAB. quote:AN ARMED police officer let himself be stabbed repeatedly rather than draw his pistol and shoot the attacker. Prince John fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 16:37
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coffeetable posted:this is putting the cart before the horse. the kg is used in all the equations b/c it was chosen as the SI standard unit of weight. as to why it's the standard unit of weight, The metre is the length of the path traveled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299792458 of a second. The second is the duration of 9192631770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom. The kelvin is the fraction 1/273.16 of the thermodynamic temperature of the triple point of water. The kilogram is a lump of metal somewhere that weighs a kilogram. This is a result of the original definition of the kilogram being slightly tautological when you think it through. Originally it was 1L of water at ice point and atmospheric pressure. Where 1L is defined as a cube 0.1m on each side, that's easy enough. Ice Point is defined as the freezing point of water, 273.15K/0C/32F. Standard atmospheric pressure is defined as 101325 Pa. One pascal is defined as one newton per square metre. One newton is defined as the force needed to accelerate 1 kilogram of mass at the rate of 1 metre per second squared. Oh poo poo, you just defined kilograms in terms of kilograms. Try again. Or just use a piece of bullion in a safe, whatever. e: Mister Adequate posted:Also I'm with the guy asking why we don't have A/C these days, it's really reached the point of necessity. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 16:46
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Guavanaut posted:The kilogram is also the only SI unit that is based on a physical object rather than an immutable (by current understanding) property of the universe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_redefinition_of_SI_base_units
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Jul 3, 2015 17:06
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OwlFancier posted:A strong economy is one which moves lots of money, giving money to the poor makes them spend it, giving money to the wealthy makes them hang onto it. The function of government is to act as a counterforce to the accumulatory force of capitalism, opposing the concentration of money so that capitalism can continue to function, and improving quality of life for the masses at the same time. This is from ages ago, but I thought it was really succinct and interesting. Is there a paper or something else that you're aware of that fleshes this out in more detail?
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Jul 3, 2015 17:12
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The redefinition of the mole based on big smooth balls is pleasing to me.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:18
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Prince John posted:This is from ages ago, but I thought it was really succinct and interesting. Is there a paper or something else that you're aware of that fleshes this out in more detail? Let me tell about this guy named Marx.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:20
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Prince John posted:This is from ages ago, but I thought it was really succinct and interesting. Is there a paper or something else that you're aware of that fleshes this out in more detail? adam smith actually talked about it some, to give some context on how far back the idea goes
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Jul 3, 2015 17:23
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Coohoolin posted:Let me tell about this guy named Marx. Heh. I had the pleasure of plowing through a chunk of Capital at uni. I found him to be very compelling. I realise Marxists believe capitalism to be unsustainable, but I was more interested in the idea that the modern-day governing class (who are, generally, not Marxists) are aware that capitalism is unsustainable and have a deliberate policy of trying to delay the inevitable.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:23
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awesome-express posted:So going back to the heatwave, why is A/C still not a thing here. This is like the 4th summer in a row that's unbearably hot. I've never been so happy at work as I was Wednesday, sitting in a lovely chill 18C whilst it was 35 outside.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:24
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Prince John posted:Heh. I had the pleasure of plowing through a chunk of Capital at uni. I found him to be very compelling. David Harvey (who IS a Marxist) argues that there's no such delaying policy, that contradictions in capitalism bring it to recurring crises whereby it reinvents itself as a new and improved exploitative machine. If you're interested in contradictions in capitalism, I can suggest his book "17 Contradictions and the End of Capitalism".
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Jul 3, 2015 17:30
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Coohoolin posted:Let me tell about this guy named Marx.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:37
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Hoops posted:Is the concept he's quoting not very very Keynesian, and very very not Marxist? The regulation part sure, the inherent contradictions part is Marxist.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:39
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XMNN posted:The redefinition of the mole based on big smooth balls is pleasing to me. Anything that comes closer to adopting Planck units sounds like a good step.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:45
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So how did Corbyn do last night? Did he rouse the audience into taking organ donations from Jeremy Hunt?
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Jul 3, 2015 18:20
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Prince John posted:Nope. I meant that in any high-octane situation involving the pointing of guns, things can go wrong. That applies whether it's armed police, or other criminals pointing the guns. poo poo happens if you put yourself in a situation like that. Our armed police are incredibly restrained, as the statistics show. I'm not entirely sure "well, he shot a guy, but it turns out he did bad stuff so it's ok" is very good reasoning. By that logic the police should go around shooting everyone on the basis they probably broke the law at some point.
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Jul 3, 2015 18:25
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baka kaba posted:So how did Corbyn do last night? Did he rouse the audience into taking organ donations from Jeremy Hunt? He could have been a little more forceful and quick to call out bullshit, but considering the very hostile panel and audience he did alright. QT is just an exercise in suffering and the public are mostly all UKIPer mentaloids. Personal favourite this week was along the lines of 'I know bombing the middle east has been wrong before and made things worse but I still think that THIS TIME the bombs might be a good plan'. e: Also sick of the lazy stereotypes and orientalism as far as ISIS is concerned. They're not mindless barbarian tribesmen for fucks sake, and painting them as such helps no one. They're a reaction to sometimes very real issues with western capitalist society and I can absolutely see how some Muslims might get sucked into the idea. It's absolutely the wrong way to fix anything, but that's not the point. We really need to be wondering what it is about our own society that drives people to IS, not legitimizing half of their complaints by refusing to even make an effort to understand.
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Jul 3, 2015 18:33
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ThomasPaine posted:e: Also sick of the lazy stereotypes and orientalism as far as ISIS is concerned. They're not mindless barbarian tribesmen for fucks sake, and painting them as such helps no one. They're a reaction to sometimes very real issues with western capitalist society and I can absolutely see how some Muslims might get sucked into the idea. It's absolutely the wrong way to fix anything, but that's not the point. We really need to be wondering what it is about our own society that drives people to IS, not legitimizing half of their complaints by refusing to even make an effort to understand. If you start thinking about the root causes of disenfranchisement from and total dissatisfaction with Western society then the terrorists win mate.
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Jul 3, 2015 18:50
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Some excellent articles here about Maoists in USA: http://severnayazemlya.tumblr.com/post/123111117743/argumate-severnayazemlya-can-you-be-a http://severnayazemlya.tumblr.com/post/123098082273/argumate-np-discuss-can-you-be-a
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Jul 3, 2015 18:55
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ThomasPaine posted:He could have been a little more forceful and quick to call out bullshit, but considering the very hostile panel and audience he did alright. They are jealous of our thriving economy and Royal Babbys.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:00
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OwlFancier posted:I'm not entirely sure "well, he shot a guy, but it turns out he did bad stuff so it's ok" is very good reasoning. I don't think he should have been shot. I do think that it's understandable how a bad chain of events (his own life choices to be carrying guns and being involved in crime combined with the bad call by the officer) could have lead to him being shot. I think we should accept that nobody is perfect under crazy pressure and accept that firearms officers may make the occasional bad call. The statistics demonstrate they are incredibly restrained. To be clear: I'm opposed to murder charges for firearms officers as a default position, unless there's clear evidence of intent, not because in this case the guy was a criminal. I don't have sympathy for him, because he was an armed criminal, but that's just an opinion. There is a world of difference between a member of the public committing premeditated murder and a firearms officer making a bad split second decision when confronting a car full of armed criminals. Calling it an "execution" and arguing for murder charges is disingenuous and unhelpful. Edit: Clearly, if we were in the US, I would have a very different default position about firearms officers. Prince John fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 19:01
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coffeetable posted:Might be useful next time you're considering changing services: telecoms complaints data I'm honestly incredibly surprised there aren't more Virgin complaints. In places where there's high saturation of Virgin customers they tend to gently caress up more than the other ISPs (e.g. dialup speeds are common in Headingley because students tend to take out Virgin 9-month contracts).
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Jul 3, 2015 19:03
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Prince John posted:I don't think he should have been shot. I do think that it's understandable how a bad chain of events (his own life choices to be carrying guns and being involved in crime combined with the bad call by the officer) could have lead to him being shot. Murder charges as a general rule I wouldn't agree with, but at the same time I think the police could do with a better culture regarding firearms mishandling. While it may be inevitable to some degree, it is necessary to avoid complacency on the subject, because America serves as a good example of where that leads. The police have an unpleasant tendency towards obfuscation when it comes to inappropriate conduct on their part, that should not be the case. If they cannot trust their members to behave in a way which would pass muster if it were always visible, they shouldn't be doing their jobs.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:14
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namesake posted:If you start thinking about the root causes of disenfranchisement from and total dissatisfaction with Western society then the terrorists win mate. No joke, Corbyn did this on Question Time and now Guido Fawkes has a thread full of people mocking him saying exactly this.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:39
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See also: the way the Met pissed and moaned when they were told that they can't get together in private to get their stories straight after an incident. I've always been a big fan of "the police are the public and the public are the police" so if they would look dimly on members of the public doing that they shouldn't complain. e: Crashbee posted:No joke, Corbyn did this on Question Time and now Guido Fawkes has a thread full of people mocking him saying exactly this.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:41
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Crashbee posted:No joke, Corbyn did this on Question Time and now Guido Fawkes has a thread full of people mocking him saying exactly this. Had a quick flick through his website's comments (what is up with his website design by the way? It looks like the bastard child of Fox News and baby's first geocities page). The sort of people who comment on it look like complete and utter dicks, perhaps not too representative of the population at large. Corbyn did well last night...came across as thoughtful and intelligent, like he's actually thought about the issues for more than ten minutes. Worth watching it to see Hunt get it in the neck from some audience GPs too.
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Jul 3, 2015 20:10
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