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Pistol_Pete posted:My 2 cents: Can you explain why you feel more strongly for Yvette Cooper than Andy Burnham? Because from what I've gathered, they both come out as rather milquetoast, afraid to say anything particularly bold for fear of the papers labelling them Communists, while trying to pretend that somehow Ed Miliband was a radical. Which I find very hard to believe from actually looking at how Labour behaved under Ed. What actually is the difference between them? They both talk about the need to "broaden appeal", and needing to "win back" voters from UKIP & the SNP, but without any sort of clear strategy how. Maybe it's easier for me to support Corbyn because it's only very recent that the idea of joining Labour became a realistic consideration: I voted Green in 2015 for example. But I'd rather see a principled Labour opposition who at least try something different from the past 20 years of neo-liberal consensus. I think Labour actually being visibly & obviously different from the Conservatives will win them votes. Perhaps I just live a sheltered life but there are plenty of people out there who shrug their shoulders & mutter "they're all the same". And they aren't, and we know they aren't, but it wouldn't hurt to prove it.
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Jul 5, 2015 17:43
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Let's not forget that George Osborne once claimed £47 on his expenses for two DVD copies of a speech he made on "Value for Taxpayers Money",
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Jul 5, 2015 17:44
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Meh, it's 47 pounds, and arguably what the expenses are for. If he bought a couple hundred and got royalties for it, now that's how you abuse MP expenses right there.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:14
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£20 sounds like poor value for a 40 minute DVD though. Could have gotten Shame on Bluray for cheaper than that, and still watch it and feel lighter & happier than one of Gideon's speeches.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:22
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Pork Pie Hat posted:Let's not forget that George Osborne once claimed £47 on his expenses for two DVD copies of a speech he made on "Value for Taxpayers Money", Lol
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Jul 5, 2015 18:23
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George.Osbourne.MP.In.Debate.720p.mkv
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Jul 5, 2015 18:25
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thespaceinvader posted:Because Parliament isn't already? Because the city of London isn't already generally? I dunno, I'm not really qualified to comment. It just feels like there must be some better solution than what we have currently where despite a MASSIVE scandal less than a decade ago, high-ranking MPs are still getting in trouble for fiddling their expenses. I mean, in the grand scheme of the country's budget it's a tiny issue, but it speaks to a bigger overall issue of parliamentary reform. They should just build a residential Hall across the road from the Palace of Westminster or something. They're already in a building together lots of the time anyway. We house soldiers in Barracks and students in halls, just do the same for MPs. Maybe even house people from different parties in the same flat and record it for Channel 4.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:28
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Put them onto barges in the Thames.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:29
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The Thames has enough problems with pollution as it is.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:31
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Shove them all in a big pit.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:34
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Reveilled posted:They should just build a residential Hall across the road from the Palace of Westminster or something. They're already in a building together lots of the time anyway. We house soldiers in Barracks and students in halls, just do the same for MPs. Use the athletes' village from London 2012 (if it hasn't been sold off already). Also, I'm in favour of means-testing for MPs pay. e: Or this Pissflaps posted:Shove them all in a big pit.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:34
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Pissflaps posted:Shove them all in a big pit. Pissflaps posted:George.Osbourne.MP.In.Debate.720p.mkv
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Jul 5, 2015 18:39
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Gonzo McFee posted:And the Guardian is talking about how if Labour want to win they're going to have to nominate the one that sounds the most like a tory. Will never understand the thought process behind "We must defeat the tories by copying the tories until we're indistinguishable." It's because the Graun is a liberal, not leftist, paper. 
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Jul 5, 2015 18:40
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Pissflaps posted:Shove them all in a big pit. 
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Jul 5, 2015 18:41
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Turn them into a Human MpPede
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Jul 5, 2015 18:47
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Load them up into this thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6NpoUk62CM
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Jul 5, 2015 18:48
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Gonzo McFee posted:And the Guardian is talking about how if Labour want to win they're going to have to nominate the one that sounds the most like a tory. Will never understand the thought process behind "We must defeat the tories by copying the tories until we're indistinguishable." The Tories won this election, therefore tory-like behaviour is election winning behaviour. Pretty straightforward. Of course in classic cargo cult fashion they've completely misidentified the actual necessities, and so focus on saying similar words when what they really ought to be doing is saying any words at all so long as they really believe them. It's true that I hate the Tories for being ideologically driven, but only because that ideology flies in the face of evidence, reason, and common decency. Of course if new labour were to choose words it could speak with true conviction they'd probably be "we lust for power more than anything else, please please please give us the reins to this country, because we really want them, just look how big this tent in my trousers got from thinking about it", which might do a tiny bit to ruin their chances. Pissflaps posted:George.Osbourne.MP.In.Debate.720p.mkv Please don't post links to your wank material Pissflaps, this is not a  thread.
Renaissance Robot fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 18:59
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Gonzo McFee posted:And the Guardian is talking about how if Labour want to win they're going to have to nominate the one that sounds the most like a tory. Will never understand the thought process behind "We must defeat the tories by copying the tories until we're indistinguishable." Labour/The Guardian have yet to understand that UKIP stole all their votes in the north and appealing to the tories will fail in the south and also lose the north
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Jul 5, 2015 19:05
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I guess this is what happens when both parties just want power for powers sake but one of them has a dress code. They're all right wing wankers but you need to have the right contacts to be in the Conservatives. Lower class right wing wankers have to settle with Labour.
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Jul 5, 2015 19:17
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Jose posted:Labour/The Guardian have yet to understand that UKIP stole all their votes in the north and appealing to the tories will fail in the south and also lose the north Renaissance Robot posted:Please don't post links to your wank material Pissflaps, this is not a
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Jul 5, 2015 19:31
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Guavanaut posted:Can they win back the north with leftism and not racism though? (Actual not racism, not UKIP 'not-racism'.) "More money for you and less for them southern pricks" is a pretty popular opinion up here I think?
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Jul 5, 2015 19:47
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Congrats on your royal christening. The flying in of holy water was a nice touch. Remember, every day hundreds of goats piss in the River Jordan
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Jul 5, 2015 19:52
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OwlFancier posted:"More money for you and less for them southern pricks" is a pretty popular opinion up here I think?  Is England regional enough for that to work? With Scotland at least they do have a level of control over Scottish issues, and are angling for more. I suppose you could push it as "more equitable spending across the whole of England" which is almost a dogwhistle but a not-lovely one.
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Jul 5, 2015 19:52
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Guavanaut posted:Can they win back the north with leftism and not racism though? (Actual not racism, not UKIP 'not-racism'.)
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Jul 5, 2015 19:58
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Pork Pie Hat posted:Let's not forget that George Osborne once claimed £47 on his expenses for two DVD copies of a speech he made on "Value for Taxpayers Money", No I'm pretty sure that's not what expenses are for AT ALL. Also If he needs copies of his speeches on tape why on earth can't he just... watch them on tape? I'm stunned that he would HAVE to buy them. Reveilled posted:They should just build a residential Hall across the road from the Palace of Westminster or something. They're already in a building together lots of the time anyway. We house soldiers in Barracks and students in halls, just do the same for MPs. But twas not to be.
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Jul 5, 2015 20:03
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forkboy84 posted:Well they aren't going to win it back with Tory-lite policies so they may as well at least try some actual socialism. The people might surprise them. First, the north voted UKIP in huge numbers, is that just because voters (reasonably enough) believed that Labour and Tories were the same, and UKIPs veneer of populism was better than nothing? Or did they actually know and agree with the core UKIP message? Secondly, are Labour smart enough to know which of the above, or are they going to switch from trying to be Tories to trying to be UKIP? Hopefully Corbyn will slap that down hard, but: 
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Jul 5, 2015 20:04
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Pistol_Pete posted:I'd quite like to see an update of the medieval system where the king, the Court and key officials spent half the year in procession around the kingdom, stopping off here, there & everywhere to show their faces and dispense justice. I thought we already had that. Hi-vis instead of white chargers
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Jul 5, 2015 20:33
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Guavanaut posted:My worries are twofold. If Burnham, Cooper or Kendall win then yeah, we'll be craving that stupid loving mug because the anti-immigration rhetoric will really ramp up. It all depends on who is the next Labour leader really, and that's why I felt I had to cough up the money to join up with Labour & have my vote counted.
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Jul 5, 2015 20:44
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thespaceinvader posted:If he needs copies of his speeches on tape why on earth can't he just... watch them on tape? I'm stunned that he would HAVE to buy them..
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Jul 5, 2015 20:49
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Yes, I did assume that he wanted copies for his I very much hope that your expenses are not supposed to be put towards buying gifts.
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Jul 5, 2015 20:58
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TinTower posted:I'm honestly incredibly surprised there aren't more Virgin complaints. In places where there's high saturation of Virgin customers they tend to gently caress up more than the other ISPs (e.g. dialup speeds are common in Headingley because students tend to take out Virgin 9-month contracts). Virgin concentrate their business in urban areas where you're less likely to get faults or slow speeds. Comparing raw complaints figures is pretty meaningless unless you take into account the demographics of the customer bases.
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Jul 5, 2015 21:03
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Ooooh, I somehow missed this from The Guardian's website. If Labour wants to win in 2020, it must choose Liz Kendall as leader: Moving left will send the party into the wilderness. The only chance we have is to do what we did in 1945, 1964 and 1997 – get back in touch with the electorate So says awful Blairite twat John Reid, while hilariously trying to link Blair to Atlee.
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Jul 5, 2015 21:34
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Guavanaut posted:The SNP strategy then? England has sufficient wealth disparity that any socially-inclined policy would automatically favour the north. The voting split isn't arbitrary, the tories are all in the south because that's here all the rich buggers are.
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Jul 5, 2015 21:35
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marktheando posted:Solve security issues by making MPs sleep in the nuclear bunker beneath
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Jul 5, 2015 21:40
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OwlFancier posted:England has sufficient wealth disparity that any socially-inclined policy would automatically favour the north.
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Jul 5, 2015 21:56
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Gonzo McFee posted:Bizarre that we live in a country where the elected representatives are more out of touch and mental than a group of unelected geriatrics who only turn up for a day out and some pocket money. Here's a list of House of Lords defeats broken out by issue. There's an awful lot of limiting ministerial power, restoring judicial discretion, limiting unforseen consequences and safeguarding the vulnerable in there. That doesn't even cover all the (many more) times when the government modifies legislation for the better in order to avoid a Lords defeat. Some of them may just turn up for a day out and some pocket money, but there's a good number who don't. Even putting aside the fact that you don't have to be debating to be doing useful work, the debates are generally thoughtful and well informed. We could do an awful lot worse.
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Jul 5, 2015 22:23
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Well done Greece, eh?
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Jul 5, 2015 22:37
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Prince John posted:Here's a list of House of Lords defeats broken out by issue. There's an awful lot of limiting ministerial power, restoring judicial discretion, limiting unforseen consequences and safeguarding the vulnerable in there. That doesn't even cover all the (many more) times when the government modifies legislation for the better in order to avoid a Lords defeat. We seem to have this discussion and this point every time the HoL comes up: the HoL is a conservative body, mostly concerned with making sure the government doesn't embark on some insane power grab or legislative change which threatens to majorly disrupt the status quo. In short they are concerned with making sure tomorrow looks very similar to today but due to general ideological and legislative drift have no objection to the fact that we're significantly to the right of where we were twenty or thirty years ago. The issues it has are the stupid rules about how Lords are chosen and if you want radical change you'll have to overthrow the Lords to get it.
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Jul 5, 2015 22:38
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Reveilled posted:They should just build a residential Hall across the road from the Palace of Westminster or something. good idea. there's a lot of undeveloped land around the palace ripe for development
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Jul 5, 2015 22:43
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Cerv posted:good idea. there's a lot of undeveloped land around the palace ripe for development Move the Palace of Westminster to an abandoned mining town in Yorkshire first, of course.
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Jul 5, 2015 22:44
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