Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
CoolCat
Jun 29, 2015

I've heard a lot of people say that jumpscares are effective horror techniques, even movie critics. Which puzzles me. In my opinion, jumpscares are very cheap. Sure, they scare the hell out of us, but they just take no imagination to create.

The silent build up makes us expect that a jumpscare is coming, and the loud noise is just cheap. I know I'll get crucified for this, but Alien had some really cheap jumpscares, in my opinion. There's silence, so you know that something is coming, and then, suddenly, there's a loud noise. Very effective, but so cheap...

An example of a good jumpscare is the body in the closet, in The Ring (2002 remake). The conversation between the mother and the journalist causes us to lower our guard, and we totally don't expect the sudden image of the disfigured face. There is a noise to accompany this, but it isn't very loud and intrusive, and it's more of the imagery that scares us.

Basically, in my opinion, it doesn't matter if a jumpscare actually signifies something scary. The loud noise and silent build up are just cheap horror techniques. What are your thoughts on this?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Jenny Angel
Oct 24, 2010

Out of Control
Hard to Regulate
Anything Goes!
Lipstick Apathy
James Wan, though

xzoto1
Jan 18, 2010

How's life in a bigger prison, Dae-su?

CoolCat posted:

I've heard a lot of people say that jumpscares are effective horror techniques, even movie critics. Which puzzles me. In my opinion, jumpscares are very cheap. Sure, they scare the hell out of us, but they just take no imagination to create.

The silent build up makes us expect that a jumpscare is coming, and the loud noise is just cheap. I know I'll get crucified for this, but Alien had some really cheap jumpscares, in my opinion. There's silence, so you know that something is coming, and then, suddenly, there's a loud noise. Very effective, but so cheap...

An example of a good jumpscare is the body in the closet, in The Ring (2002 remake). The conversation between the mother and the journalist causes us to lower our guard, and we totally don't expect the sudden image of the disfigured face. There is a noise to accompany this, but it isn't very loud and intrusive, and it's more of the imagery that scares us.

Basically, in my opinion, it doesn't matter if a jumpscare actually signifies something scary. The loud noise and silent build up are just cheap horror techniques. What are your thoughts on this?

They can be effective but for the most part it's just lazy film making. The Ring had a fantastic balance between dread and jump scares. It's probably one of the most effective horror movies, ever.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


The most successful current horror video game series could be renamed Jump Scare: the Game so it's obviously popular and good and right. Stop being wrong please.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP
Silent build up is actually very easy if you understand the process.

Like, jump scares are interesting because they borrow aspects of comedy (timing & being unpredictable) to horror.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe
The key to a good jump scare is making it obvious to the audience that its going to happen, maybe even a little too obvious. Then you string them along for a while. Eventually you reach a point where the audience will naturally relax and start to believe it was a fake-out. Then BAM! you've got them. The perfect jumpscare is a rarer occurrence than most people think.

The template: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NKhJ5D8trI

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011

In 2015 I think it's a bit of a strawman to say that anyone seriously discussing or reviewing contemporary horror is really getting behind jump-scares as a technique. Most critics have turned on them in a major way and see them much like you do and as a genre, the better movies have moved away from them somewhat.

Jump-scares in non-horror is pretty dope though. THAT's where you can really get people. I can't see myself tiring of the 'person is driving along, interior POV of the car, and a car/train/truck T-bones them out of nowhere' in a non-horror anytime soon. Even in a horror like Inside it still works on me.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


Alien came out in 1979, it wasn't like it was a played out technique back then. It's like complaining about bullet-time in the Matrix.

real_slime
Apr 21, 2015

by Lowtax
Good horror movies have jump scares and bad horror movies have jump scares. If you don't like them that's fine, but it's one of the most standard opinions to have. How often do you actually see 'I was thinking about it, and jump scares are good' posts or articles?

I think saying jump scares are inherently bad is like saying slapstick comedy is inherently bad. It depends. If a movie is boring and throws in a few jump scares to getcha then it's still a bad movie, and if a good movie has a few, that doesn't make it a bad movie.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


I dunno people defend the game series I was talkin bout even though the entire thing is jump scares and nothing else.

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011

Groovelord Neato posted:

I dunno people defend the game series I was talkin bout even though the entire thing is jump scares and nothing else.

Jump scares in a game are different and usually effective, plus they can do that gimmick where the controller vibrates when one happens. I'm sure 15 years from now there'll be a thread about how jump scares are ruining games too though. Movie critics soured on jump-scares in horror movies years and possibly decades ago.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


It's just as terrible in games as it is in movies.

Hat Thoughts
Jul 27, 2012

Jenny Angel posted:

James Wan, though

Hat Thoughts
Jul 27, 2012
What do you mean by "Cheap"

Jenny Angel
Oct 24, 2010

Out of Control
Hard to Regulate
Anything Goes!
Lipstick Apathy

Hat Thoughts posted:

What do you mean by "Cheap"

[throws down controller in frustration] I'm not gonna play against you if you're gonna use a fuckin cheap character like that

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


Hat Thoughts posted:

What do you mean by "Cheap"

A jump scare is usually accompanied by a loud discordant sound which will make you flinch even when not "earned" by building up tension.

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011

Groovelord Neato posted:

It's just as terrible in games as it is in movies.

did you read the part about the vibrating controller gimmick I mean what else do videogames have to offer beyond that

KaptainKrunk
Feb 6, 2006


Startling the audience is sometimes a good thing. I don't buy that jump scares or whatever are necessary bad. But there's an obvious difference between startling and scaring. The latter relies on careful use of music, misdirection, a previously built-up atmosphere of dread, and a sense that you aren't quite sure what might pop out. The Exorcist III scene, Alien, and some of the better J-horror films do this well. A good test of suspense in general is how someone reacts who has seen it before. Good suspense can get someone every time, even with a known outcome. The blood test scene from the Thing is still tense as hell, even when you know exactly what's going to happen and when.

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.

flashy_mcflash posted:

Jump-scares in non-horror is pretty dope though. THAT's where you can really get people. I can't see myself tiring of the 'person is driving along, interior POV of the car, and a car/train/truck T-bones them out of nowhere' in a non-horror anytime soon. Even in a horror like Inside it still works on me.

Post 9-11 User
Apr 14, 2010
There's nothing I can add that Red Letter Media hasn't already explained: the average movie-goer is a simpleton that enjoys the carnival ride of a pile of poo poo horror movie. The way they explain it is that cheap Summer horror movies startle you rather than scare you. Unlike It Follows that gradually builds characters, context, and tension, some turd of a movie will have a scary monster face rapidly slam into frame to "scare" you. It's as sophisticated as one of those Flash puzzle games that suddenly has a ghost face image and a loud, low-fidelity screaming noise at 666,666db.

I say this as a person that is really, really stupid yet I am gradually coming to terms with how some people never, ever grow up. Some people want to play Keno all night, jam double-butter popcorn into their face, and fart on their estranged wife. Many people.

Honest Thief
Jan 11, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 24 days!

Post 9-11 User posted:

There's nothing I can add that Red Letter Media hasn't already explained: the average movie-goer is a simpleton that enjoys the carnival ride of a pile of poo poo horror movie. The way they explain it is that cheap Summer horror movies startle you rather than scare you. Unlike It Follows that gradually builds characters, context, and tension, some turd of a movie will have a scary monster face rapidly slam into frame to "scare" you. It's as sophisticated as one of those Flash puzzle games that suddenly has a ghost face image and a loud, low-fidelity screaming noise at 666,666db.

I say this as a person that is really, really stupid yet I am gradually coming to terms with how some people never, ever grow up. Some people want to play Keno all night, jam double-butter popcorn into their face, and fart on their estranged wife. Many people.

puhhhhlease

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

Post 9-11 User posted:

There's nothing I can add that Red Letter Media hasn't already explained
lol

Jenny Angel
Oct 24, 2010

Out of Control
Hard to Regulate
Anything Goes!
Lipstick Apathy
The fact that there can be both well-done and poorly-done jump scares is treated like some big wise truth-in-the-middle revelation when it's actually the shallowest possible analysis to say "Yes, there is a filmic technique that can be executed to varying degrees of success". Nobody feels the need to make that kind of pronouncement about, I dunno, long takes. Or facial close-up shots.

And yet that's still way more tolerable and interesting than Post 9-11 User's understanding that consists entirely of memes and unearned classist condescension. And understandable, too! When the norm is fuckers posting thinkpieces like "Why the Horror Genre Needs to Place a 10 Year Moratorium on Jump Scares", I get why these non-statements can be mistaken for interesting against-the-grain commentary.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Groovelord Neato posted:

It's just as terrible in games as it is in movies.

:agreed:

A lot of movies and games seem to think startling and scary are the same thing and go with nothing but that. Like, those lovely screamers that were on the internet in the 90s weren't scary. They were obnoxious. I guess sometimes jumpscares can be well done and frightening, but mostly it's just annoying.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014



?

Hat Thoughts
Jul 27, 2012

Post 9-11 User posted:

I say this as a person that is really, really stupid yet I am gradually coming to terms with how some people never, ever grow up. Some people want to play Keno all night, jam double-butter popcorn into their face, and fart on their estranged wife. Many people.

What's wrong with double-butter popcorn and keno?

smooth jazz
May 13, 2010

They're for ppl on date night. She is supposed to grab onto you in the movie theatre and that's when you make your move. thread over.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


flashy_mcflash posted:

In 2015 I think it's a bit of a strawman to say that anyone seriously discussing or reviewing contemporary horror is really getting behind jump-scares as a technique. Most critics have turned on them in a major way and see them much like you do and as a genre, the better movies have moved away from them somewhat.

Jump-scares in non-horror is pretty dope though. THAT's where you can really get people. I can't see myself tiring of the 'person is driving along, interior POV of the car, and a car/train/truck T-bones them out of nowhere' in a non-horror anytime soon. Even in a horror like Inside it still works on me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFwGi1A34nk

CrowsNestMutineer
Mar 9, 2009

* Juciano makes the best damned Caesar dressing I've ever tasted in my life.

The best crafted jump scare I've ever seen is in Audition.

Noxville
Dec 7, 2003

Jump scares are an amazing release after a long build of tension, it's just that a lot of horror filmmakers ether don't understand that or are incapable of generating tension.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours
Nobody says this. What's far more common is people accusing horror movies of pointless jumpscares, even in weird situations where there isn't a single one, like Paranormal Activity 1.

Drunkboxer
Jun 30, 2007

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

Nobody says this. What's far more common is people accusing horror movies of pointless jumpscares, even in weird situations where there isn't a single one, like Paranormal Activity 1.

I guess it depends on what you classify as one, but I remember at least a couple in Paranormal Activity.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours

Drunkboxer posted:

I guess it depends on what you classify as one, but I remember at least a couple in Paranormal Activity.

I only really count the stinger at the end because everything I'm thinking of is built up and really, really takes its time. It's astonishing how little happens in the movie.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours
Or like, REC, really has only one jumpscare, but often what happens is that when someone is startled instead of disturbed, they immediately go in the defense and say "heh, I wasn't scared".

Post 9-11 User
Apr 14, 2010

Jenny Angel posted:

The fact that there can be both well-done and poorly-done jump scares is treated like some big wise truth-in-the-middle revelation when it's actually the shallowest possible analysis to say "Yes, there is a filmic technique that can be executed to varying degrees of success". Nobody feels the need to make that kind of pronouncement about, I dunno, long takes. Or facial close-up shots.

And yet that's still way more tolerable and interesting than Post 9-11 User's understanding that consists entirely of memes and unearned classist condescension. And understandable, too! When the norm is fuckers posting thinkpieces like "Why the Horror Genre Needs to Place a 10 Year Moratorium on Jump Scares", I get why these non-statements can be mistaken for interesting against-the-grain commentary.

There is a proper jump scare in It Follows. The character is isolated and afraid, a loud noise happens that scares us because we empathize with her and the situation she is in. We're waiting for something to come after her, we don't know if the threat is real or if she is safe. It turns out to be a basketball hitting her window and the noise isn't obnoxiously loud. That is a proper jump scare, most wet farts from studios just blast a loud noise at 300% of the rest of the average audio level.

"Classist condescension," what planet do you live on? Are you one of those people that thinks calling stupid people, "stupid" is, "ableist"? I came here to discuss movies, not screeds about the injustice of adjectives.

Hat Thoughts
Jul 27, 2012
What's wrong with double butter popcorn and keno

Jenny Angel
Oct 24, 2010

Out of Control
Hard to Regulate
Anything Goes!
Lipstick Apathy
James Wan, though

massive spider
Dec 6, 2006

One of mulholland drives best scenes is a jump scare.

InfiniteZero
Sep 11, 2004

PINK GUITAR FIRE ROBOT

College Slice

CoolCat posted:

The silent build up makes us expect that a jumpscare is coming, and the loud noise is just cheap. I know I'll get crucified for this, but Alien had some really cheap jumpscares, in my opinion. There's silence, so you know that something is coming, and then, suddenly, there's a loud noise. Very effective, but so cheap...

In the original script for Alien, Harry Dean Stanton was the alien so when they changed that they had to work around it so they added in some really cheap jump scares and we got the garbage movie that nobody talks about today.

Giger's original concept art for the xenomorph
:



Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Cacator
Aug 6, 2005

You're quite good at turning me on.


It starts repeating clips after 12 minutes but for those first 12 minutes I will admit I was consistently entertained.

  • Locked thread