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etalian posted:well the EU was based around the hilarious concept of different sovereign states with the same currency and also the same central bank. Maybe it was designed this way so different sovereign countries would realise that they were all interconnected and that harm to one would be harm to all, then once enlightened they would engage in works of mutual benefit and public good? I mean, they at least seem to have realised the "interconnected" part, but so far they're reacting to it by furiously sawing off their own legs.
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Jul 5, 2015 22:43
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Fargo Fukes posted:Maybe it was designed this way so different sovereign countries realised they were all interconnected and that harm to one would be harm to all, then once enlightened they would engage in works of mutual benefit and public good? I mean, they at least seem to have realised the "interconnected" part, but so far they're reacting to it by furiously sawing off their own legs. This is enlightened perspective which doesn't work when you have Ferengi involved as the most influential state.
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Jul 5, 2015 22:45
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Fargo Fukes posted:Maybe it was designed this way so different sovereign countries would realise that they were all interconnected and that harm to one would be harm to all, then once enlightened they would engage in works of mutual benefit and public good? I mean, they at least seem to have realised the "interconnected" part, but so far they're reacting to it by furiously sawing off their own legs. Kicking Greece out is not sawing of one's own legs, it's more akin to clipping ones nails in the grand scheme of things. This is generally viewed as a good thing to do fyi.
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Jul 5, 2015 22:45
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unpacked robinhood posted:guys should we have turkey in the EU, it's important i think this is a good idea because the eu is poo poo and that'd make things way funnier
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Jul 5, 2015 22:46
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Maybe Greece could leave and join Putin's slav EU knockoff?
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Jul 5, 2015 22:48
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 This photo is from negotiations in London in 1953, where Greece and ~20 other nations renegotiated the terms of West Germany's debts. They forgave about half of their debt, lowered the interest charged, and extended repayment time. It's now a case study in debt relief and economic recovery, and was in fact referred to as the German economic miracle. But of course it's impossible now because Greece is too lazy / unimportant / whatever, just make something up and get a talking head to repeat it often enough, doesn't matter
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Jul 5, 2015 22:55
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etalian posted:Maybe Greece could leave and join Putin's slav EU knockoff? that's what is probably going to happen. the kremlin would do anything to undermine the eu and nato, I wouldn't be surprised if they used greece as a poster boy for what benefits other troubled nations if they decide to follow suit. the real question is if this does happen, how much support is russia able to give Lufiron fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 22:58
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Broken Machine posted:
This was due to how the US saw a strong West Germany as a economic and military hedge against the Soviet Union. In this case the Greeks really don't have any outside power to encourage similar haircuit relief among the creditor nations. Lufiron posted:that's what is probably going to happen. the kremlin would do anything to undermine the eu and nato, I wouldn't be surprised if they used greece as an poster boy for what benefits other troubled nations if they decide to follow suit. Putin already sent out feelers saying he could provide the greeks with aid such as cheaper energy import rates, mainly a gently caress you the richer eurozone countries.
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Jul 5, 2015 22:59
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greece will stay in the eu AND euro zone and just stop paying their debt. noone can kick them out and the government has stated over and over that they have no intention of leaving.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:00
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spud posted:They aint buying food either. Eh food isn't the problem. If it's produced in the country, they can pay for it with Drachmas. But they aren't getting any iPhones for a long time.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:01
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etalian posted:This was due to how the US saw a strong West Germany as a economic and military hedge against the Soviet Union. So as the rest of the world doesn't need Greece to thrive, gently caress 'em? I though Europe was supposed to be a land of enlightened farts
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Jul 5, 2015 23:03
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Broken Machine posted:So as the rest of the world doesn't need Greece to thrive, gently caress 'em? I though Europe was supposed to be a land of enlightened farts lmao
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Jul 5, 2015 23:04
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Broken Machine posted:So as the rest of the world doesn't need Greece to thrive, gently caress 'em? I though Europe was supposed to be a land of enlightened farts It's more because Ferengi want to get paid at any cost even though in the long run it would damage their interests.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:05
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Broken Machine posted:So as the rest of the world doesn't need Greece to thrive, gently caress 'em? I though Europe was supposed to be a land of enlightened farts
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Jul 5, 2015 23:07
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:greece will stay in the eu AND euro zone and just stop paying their debt. noone can kick them out and the government has stated over and over that they have no intention of leaving. that owns. they should print the gently caress out of euros
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Jul 5, 2015 23:08
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:greece will stay in the eu AND euro zone and just stop paying their debt. noone can kick them out and the government has stated over and over that they have no intention of leaving. It'll be kind of an automatic thing. If the EU doesn't send the Greeks any more Euros for the banks to pay out they can either keep closed forever, or switch to another currency. Then you have a country that technically is still in the Eurozone but doesn't have any Euros apart from the bills and coins that are already in the country.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:09
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Jul 5, 2015 23:11
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adamarama posted:The EU have worked with them for 7 years trying to introduce reforms that are designed to help Greece thrive. Crazy things like collecting taxes. Greece hasn't played its part. People keep saying this, but even with a low collection rate, the Greeks in 2007 still had only a 3 percent spread between spending and receipts. The problem they had is that global finance poo poo itself, and credit became a lot tighter. Were it not for that crisis and subsequent lack of credit, they would have been fine. Not that there aren't structural reforms that could help Greece, but if creditors had taken the same attitude towards Germany in the 50s, they would have been hosed and you would have read all these articles about lazy Germans and tax dodging and so on
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Jul 5, 2015 23:13
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that maps ends with 2011 you got something a bit more updated?
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Jul 5, 2015 23:13
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Lufiron posted:that maps ends with 2011 you got something a bit more updated? nah just yoinked it from this thing, which was a p good read: http://www.interfluidity.com/v2/5965.html
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Jul 5, 2015 23:17
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbZe1dR2gZc
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Jul 5, 2015 23:19
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is there an anime of this i can watch to get up to speed here
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Jul 5, 2015 23:20
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Michael lewis on Greece, http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010
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Jul 5, 2015 23:22
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What's really funny is how there are now released documents from the US spying on Merkel that show she knew Greece would never be able to repay the debts
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Jul 5, 2015 23:23
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Lufiron posted:that maps ends with 2011 you got something a bit more updated?  This is growth rate, so even when the curve went up it meant that things were still getting worse. It gets back up to zero at the end because at this point the Greek economy has had pretty much the maximum amount of damage inflicted possible and still be called an economy.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:25
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So when "Golden Dawn" takes over rhe capital, will we finally stop accepting sweaty greek food workers into society?
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Jul 5, 2015 23:43
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Now that austerity has been proven to not ever work for around 35 years now, how much longer are people that insist on it going to be taken seriously? Another 35 years or so?
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Jul 5, 2015 23:55
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Id like to be more informed that I am, but the way I understood it the EU is pretty grumpy because while everyone agrees that the austerity measures for greece are generally poo poo, there are reforms that they basically have to do in order to be long term viable, like cutting ridiculous spendings and actually paying their taxes, but greece is mostly "hm, no" and this causes the EU to not implementing solutions that are actually viable, since they believe that it still wont make a difference. Is this correct? Am I dumb as gently caress?
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Jul 6, 2015 00:03
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GAYS FOR DAYS posted:What's really funny is how there are now released documents from the US spying on Merkel that show she knew Greece would never be able to repay the debts It's basically the same reasoning US banks used to give poor people high risk loans.
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Jul 6, 2015 00:07
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Son of Rodney posted:Id like to be more informed that I am, but the way I understood it the EU is pretty grumpy because while everyone agrees that the austerity measures for greece are generally poo poo, there are reforms that they basically have to do in order to be long term viable, like cutting ridiculous spendings and actually paying their taxes, but greece is mostly "hm, no" and this causes the EU to not implementing solutions that are actually viable, since they believe that it still wont make a difference. Is this correct? Am I dumb as gently caress? to put it quite simply: The dog poo poo on the rug and Angela Merkel thinks the more reasonable path forward is to repeatedly kick the dog in the stomach for the next few decades.
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Jul 6, 2015 00:15
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Germany's grumpy because they haven't fought a land war in 70 years. Maybe they should invade Belgium or something to get it out of their system.
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Jul 6, 2015 00:25
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Slaughterhouse-Ive posted:Germany's grumpy because they haven't fought a land war in 70 years. Maybe they should invade Belgium or something to get it out of their system. lol
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Jul 6, 2015 00:26
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Slaughterhouse-Ive posted:Greece is what would happen if you let D&D run a country
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Jul 6, 2015 00:31
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Nobody in Greece pays taxes. This is what happens if the entire country collectively decides not to pay taxes
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Jul 6, 2015 00:32
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when is greece going to anschluss albania
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Jul 6, 2015 00:44
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EXTREME INSERTION posted:Nobody in Greece pays taxes. This is what happens if the entire country collectively decides not to pay taxes this is not true, and every time you or anyone else in the thread posts it you mark yourself as a complete loving idiot incapable of understanding complex systems such as international finance and lending HOPE. THIS. HELPS.
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Jul 6, 2015 00:47
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rabble rabble posted:this is not true, and every time you or anyone else in the thread posts it you mark yourself as a complete loving idiot incapable of understanding complex systems such as international finance and lending Greece has a serious tax evasion problem, and now it is broke and will probably end up as putins bitch HOPE. THIS. HELPS
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Jul 6, 2015 00:51
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rabble rabble posted:this is not true, and every time you or anyone else in the thread posts it you mark yourself as a complete loving idiot incapable of understanding complex systems such as international finance and lending people see things like quote:Comparing bank data with government data, the authors found that the true income of the average Greek person is about 1.92 times larger than what's actually reported to the government. and say '92% OF GREEKS DONT PAY THEYRE TAXES OMG' because they're dumb as poo poo
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Jul 6, 2015 00:53
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Blue Train posted:people see things like Not reporting your income, or having a system that misreports people's incomes = not enough taxes. Taxes are required for a government to function 
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Jul 6, 2015 00:55
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EXTREME INSERTION posted:Not reporting your income, or having a system that misreports people's incomes = not enough taxes. Taxes are required for a government to function underreporting != nonpayment
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Jul 6, 2015 00:58
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