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gutterdaughter
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl
I'll offer a few, then.

Pros:
  • Pulse and Cancel, and their stupid rules interactions, get buried in a shallow grave outside town.
  • Force Pulse is a much, much cleaner option.
  • Being able to swap your finisher mid-game is nice.
  • "Feels" more Video Game-y than the SAC. This is actually important for teaching new players--the more a newbie can file new rules under a preexisting mental box, the faster they'll grasp the concepts
  • Seriously, Pulse and Cancel make no goddamn sense half the time.

Cons:
  • Force Gauge games have even more tracking, adding to the burden of comprehension and calculation, particularly for newer players. You already have to track your life, their life, their available styles/bases, their pool of Widget Tokens, your pile of Doodad Markers, and now the Force Gauge. Congrats, you've added another wall of fiddliness to alienate newbies.
  • Still couldn't figure out how to not put a dumb extra card in the players' hands, eh Brad?
  • The Force Special can start in a discard instead of a Style? That's loving ludicrous. You'll always choose it for Discard 1. :psyduck:
  • Marmelee is very sad without Pulse/Cancel. Voco is probably also sad, but Voco is always sad.

My opinion? I don't like either Force Gauge or Special Actions as a tournament format. We should just go back to ante finishers, like god intended. It's cleaner, it snaps nicely into the basic rules architecture of the game, and Baenvoir can loving suck on it (no you can't Spellbreak my Laser Lattice you prick).

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S.J.
May 19, 2008

Just who the hell do you think we are?

Gutter Owl posted:

I'll offer a few, then.

Pros:
  • Pulse and Cancel, and their stupid rules interactions, get buried in a shallow grave outside town.
  • Force Pulse is a much, much cleaner option.
  • Being able to swap your finisher mid-game is nice.
  • "Feels" more Video Game-y than the SAC. This is actually important for teaching new players--the more a newbie can file new rules under a preexisting mental box, the faster they'll grasp the concepts
  • Seriously, Pulse and Cancel make no goddamn sense half the time.

Cons:
  • Force Gauge games have even more tracking, adding to the burden of comprehension and calculation, particularly for newer players. You already have to track your life, their life, their available styles/bases, their pool of Widget Tokens, your pile of Doodad Markers, and now the Force Gauge. Congrats, you've added another wall of fiddliness to alienate newbies.
  • Still couldn't figure out how to not put a dumb extra card in the players' hands, eh Brad?
  • The Force Special can start in a discard instead of a Style? That's loving ludicrous. You'll always choose it for Discard 1. :psyduck:
  • Marmelee is very sad without Pulse/Cancel. Voco is probably also sad, but Voco is always sad.

My opinion? I don't like either Force Gauge or Special Actions as a tournament format. We should just go back to ante finishers, like god intended. It's cleaner, it snaps nicely into the basic rules architecture of the game, and Baenvoir can loving suck on it (no you can't Spellbreak my Laser Lattice you prick).

I would prefer special actions and ante finishers, honestly.

OmegaGoo
Nov 25, 2011

Mediocrity: the standard of survival!

S.J. posted:

I would prefer special actions and ante finishers, honestly.

I really like the Special Action cards, and I feel the characters work much better with all three options (once) than with either both options... or whatever else the Force Gauge gets you. Doesn't Force Gauge allow you to spend for Stun Guard? I'm not ok with that.

S.J.
May 19, 2008

Just who the hell do you think we are?

OmegaGoo posted:

I really like the Special Action cards, and I feel the characters work much better with all three options (once) than with either both options... or whatever else the Force Gauge gets you. Doesn't Force Gauge allow you to spend for Stun Guard? I'm not ok with that.

I'm not sure. But allowing characters to use pulse/cancel/finisher on the card while still having their finishers available as an ante makes finishers way, way more significant.

ActingPower
Jun 4, 2013

IIRC, the Force Gauge allows you to spend 2 Force for either: 2 Stun Guard, 1 Soak, +1 Power, or +2 Priority. If you have 7 Force, you can "Pulse". And if you have more Force than Life, you can do the whole "Activate Your Finisher" deal.

ActingPower fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Jul 21, 2015

Mad Fnorder
Apr 22, 2008
Now I want to brainstorm a series of different but equivalent modes that you can interchangably select at the start of a match with some semblance of balance- Like Capcom vs SNK-style Grooves.

gutterdaughter
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl

OmegaGoo posted:

I really like the Special Action cards, and I feel the characters work much better with all three options (once) than with either both options... or whatever else the Force Gauge gets you. Doesn't Force Gauge allow you to spend for Stun Guard? I'm not ok with that.

ActingPower posted:

IIRC, the Force Gauge allows you to spend 2 Force for either: 2 Stun Guard, 1 Soak, +1 Power, or +2 Priority. If you have 7 Force, you can "Pulse". And if you have more Force than Life, you can do the whole "Activate Your Finisher" deal.

This is correct.

  • With Force Gauge, you start with 2 Force, and gain 1 Force every recycle step, or 2 Force if you're at 7 or less life. Force Maxes out at 10.
  • As an Ante, you may spend 2 Force for an "Overcharge," which gives the above effects. You can Overcharge multiple times, but must choose a different effect each time (so no +4 initiative or Stun Guard 6 or whatever).
  • As an End of Beat Effect, you may spend 7 force for a "Pulse" - either Move 3, or Move an adjacent opponent 3.
  • You also have the "Force Special Action" style, which is played like the old SAC. If played when your Life < Force, it replaces your pair with your finisher. If Life > Force, you gain 1 Force on reveal and may flip your Finisher over, then you execute the attack (which is just the unmodified base).

So yeah, you can get Stun Guard, although it's below the magic number (3) by itself, and you have to ante it blind. It does boost Shot a bit, since SG4 shot is almost as reliable as Strike.

My big problem with Force Gauge is the inclusion of the Force Special Action card, which is inelegant as hell. You could have easily just made the Finisher an Ante effect, and make flipping the finisher an Overcharge option. But no, we have to have this extra wasted card. Which, may I remind you, can sub for a style in your opening discards, what the actual gently caress Brad.

Saguaro PI
Mar 11, 2013

Totally legit tree

Gutter Owl posted:

But no, we have to have this extra wasted card. Which, may I remind you, can sub for a style in your opening discards, what the actual gently caress Brad.

Man, I was looking forward to force gauge purely because I hate feeling like I'm playing poorly when I use my awesome finisher instead of cancel or maybe a pulse, but loving lol.

Mad Fnorder
Apr 22, 2008

Gutter Owl posted:

My big problem with Force Gauge is the inclusion of the Force Special Action card, which is inelegant as hell. You could have easily just made the Finisher an Ante effect, and make flipping the finisher an Overcharge option. But no, we have to have this extra wasted card. Which, may I remind you, can sub for a style in your opening discards, what the actual gently caress Brad.

Yeah, that's dumb as rocks. Gonna see a lot of Card+Dash pairs all day. Plus Overcharge Priority can be met by Overcharge Priority right back.

Dire Wombat
Oct 29, 2011

In this world, there is no truth. The truth is made later on and overwrites what comes before it. Real truth doesn't exist anywhere.

Mad Fnorder posted:

Yeah, that's dumb as rocks. Gonna see a lot of Card+Dash pairs all day. Plus Overcharge Priority can be met by Overcharge Priority right back.

This is exactly what happened in my Thessala vs. Welsie game.

On another note Alumis vs. Jager has ended. It was one-sided from the start, but Cerepol held out for 10 beats after being knocked to 8 life in beat 3. Also Alumis is really cool.

Shadow225
Jan 2, 2007




How does Alumis's finisher ever miss, since the shadow always follows the person moving to it? Does the opponent have to literally stand on it when he/she anticipates the finish?

OmegaGoo
Nov 25, 2011

Mediocrity: the standard of survival!

Shadow225 posted:

How does Alumis's finisher ever miss, since the shadow always follows the person moving to it? Does the opponent have to literally stand on it when he/she anticipates the finish?

Pretty much. A lot of finishers can do silly things like that, though.

Dire Wombat
Oct 29, 2011

In this world, there is no truth. The truth is made later on and overwrites what comes before it. Real truth doesn't exist anywhere.

Shadow225 posted:

How does Alumis's finisher ever miss, since the shadow always follows the person moving to it? Does the opponent have to literally stand on it when he/she anticipates the finish?

Yep. Standing on your own shadow is actually the best place to be when fighting Alumis, since many of her styles reward her for standing on the shadow.

S.J.
May 19, 2008

Just who the hell do you think we are?

Gutter Owl posted:

This is correct.

  • With Force Gauge, you start with 2 Force, and gain 1 Force every recycle step, or 2 Force if you're at 7 or less life. Force Maxes out at 10.
  • As an Ante, you may spend 2 Force for an "Overcharge," which gives the above effects. You can Overcharge multiple times, but must choose a different effect each time (so no +4 initiative or Stun Guard 6 or whatever).
  • As an End of Beat Effect, you may spend 7 force for a "Pulse" - either Move 3, or Move an adjacent opponent 3.
  • You also have the "Force Special Action" style, which is played like the old SAC. If played when your Life < Force, it replaces your pair with your finisher. If Life > Force, you gain 1 Force on reveal and may flip your Finisher over, then you execute the attack (which is just the unmodified base).

So yeah, you can get Stun Guard, although it's below the magic number (3) by itself, and you have to ante it blind. It does boost Shot a bit, since SG4 shot is almost as reliable as Strike.

My big problem with Force Gauge is the inclusion of the Force Special Action card, which is inelegant as hell. You could have easily just made the Finisher an Ante effect, and make flipping the finisher an Overcharge option. But no, we have to have this extra wasted card. Which, may I remind you, can sub for a style in your opening discards, what the actual gently caress Brad.

Guess I'll just try out Force Gauge + Ante Finishers then and see how that works :shrug:. You're absolutely right about the card inclusion though. The meter is supposed to be a separate resource, :ughh:

I really feel like the game isn't quite complete without ante finishers on the table, regardless of what other rules you're using.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Gutter Owl posted:

My big problem with Force Gauge is the inclusion of the Force Special Action card, which is inelegant as hell. You could have easily just made the Finisher an Ante effect, and make flipping the finisher an Overcharge option. But no, we have to have this extra wasted card. Which, may I remind you, can sub for a style in your opening discards, what the actual gently caress Brad.

The Overcharge option being "spend 1 Force to take a style back into your hand and only use the base"? Or...?

Mad Fnorder
Apr 22, 2008
I think like, " Ante Overcharge: spend Force equal to your life total, place your finisher in pay in place of your current attack pair. "

gutterdaughter
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl

Glazius posted:

The Overcharge option being "spend 1 Force to take a style back into your hand and only use the base"? Or...?

"Overcharge" is when you ante 2 force for (+2 Pri/+1 Pow/2 Stun Guard/1 Soak). I was saying, you could add a fifth option of "flip your Finisher card to the other side."

ForgedIron
Oct 15, 2013

Deez Nutz
I still think that the Force special action card should have some downsides when it's not active. I've mentioned before, but if you remove the ability to spend force while the Force Special Action Card (FSAC) is in a discard pile, you now are making playing the card a serious trade off. Now your opponent knows you can't A) do your finisher, B) Pulse, C) Add Soak to cancel your strength boost or do any other overcharge action. Using that card as a style should come with COSTS.

Azran
Sep 3, 2012

And what should one do to be remembered?
Out of curiosity (because I can't seem to parse the online store), can you get all game components as a paid PnPs? I'm starving for non-Monopoly board games and PnP is kind of my only option thanks to my country's import policy.

Cerepol
Dec 2, 2011


Azran posted:

Out of curiosity (because I can't seem to parse the online store), can you get all game components as a paid PnPs? I'm starving for non-Monopoly board games and PnP is kind of my only option thanks to my country's import policy.

I haven't bought any off their online store but it does offer each flight for $4 USD or something.

Wol
Dec 15, 2012

See you in the
UNDERDARK
I have bought those and they're very comprehensive. The Devastation ones even include stuff like arenas and bosses.

AMooseDoesStuff
Dec 20, 2012
Anyone going to Gencon should try and play Millenium Blades, and then write about it here.

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!

AMooseDoesStuff posted:

Anyone going to Gencon should try and play Millenium Blades, and then write about it here.

Is it available in some form?

AMooseDoesStuff
Dec 20, 2012

Countblanc posted:

Is it available in some form?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/level99games/millennium-blades-the-ccg-simulator-board-game/posts/1302176

"Millennium Blades at GenCon

In addition to showing Millennium Blades at our booth and to media guests all throughout GenCon, we have opportunities for backers to play a scheduled, private game with me (D. Brad Talton Jr, the game’s creator) at GenCon! Just come by our booth and see if we have any available slots. I look forward to playing Millennium Blades with you!"

I'm not sure if there was a backer tier with 'Play at Gencon' as a reward or anything, but this sounds like anyone can play it. Provided they're lucky enough to get a space I suppose.

djfooboo
Oct 16, 2004




I plan on running to Lvl 99 pretty early to get a slot.

djfooboo
Oct 16, 2004




Played Milleniun Blades with Brad Talton

Trip report after Gencon.

Spoiler: Insta-buy

gutterdaughter
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl

djfooboo posted:

Played Milleniun Blades with Brad Talton

Trip report after Gencon.

Spoiler: Insta-buy

Last night around 9PM-11PM? I was the blonde gal playing the Shur Wen Na clashing deck.

taser rates
Mar 30, 2010
I'm so jealous right now.

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

But I don't have money/room/time for another gigantic Level99 game :( :( :(

djfooboo
Oct 16, 2004




Gutter Owl posted:

Last night around 9PM-11PM? I was the blonde gal playing the Shur Wen Na clashing deck.

Are you Shur? ;) I was the ginger directly to your right.

OmegaGoo
Nov 25, 2011

Mediocrity: the standard of survival!
Question: Does Talton know they need a technical writer? Please tell me they know this.

S.J.
May 19, 2008

Just who the hell do you think we are?

If anyone gets to check out BattleCON online it is your duty to report here immediately.

gutterdaughter
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl
Pulled top four at BattleCON Worlds at Gen Con, with a draft team of Lixis, Mikhail, and Vannah. Lost first round, then swept the losers' bracket up until losers' finals, where I fell to Shektur.

Mad Fnorder
Apr 22, 2008
Made top 4 as well but went out right before. Awesome to meet folks, sorry Final Boss could not boss all the way. Drafted Malandrax, Joal, and Lixis, had enormous success with two of them but a Joal mirror was the beginning of the end for me. More when I get home.

S.J.
May 19, 2008

Just who the hell do you think we are?

Gutter Owl posted:

Pulled top four at BattleCON Worlds at Gen Con, with a draft team of Lixis, Mikhail, and Vannah. Lost first round, then swept the losers' bracket up until losers' finals, where I fell to Shektur.

What'd you play in the finals?

fozzy fosbourne
Apr 21, 2010

Anyone play Millenium Blades at the con? I'm interested in impressions when the feeding frenzy is over

S.J.
May 19, 2008

Just who the hell do you think we are?

fozzy fosbourne posted:

Anyone play Millenium Blades at the con? I'm interested in impressions when the feeding frenzy is over

A goon earlier up the thread called it an instant buy.

Saguaro PI
Mar 11, 2013

Totally legit tree
Another indication backing was a great idea. Congrats GO and Fnorder on your placings.

Any of you lucky Gencon folk get to check out Exceed? Any other exciting news?

Volfogg
Dec 19, 2010

Some say she was raised by sentient birds, and that test subjects replicating her equipment were horribly broken.

All we know is she's called
The Hunter


Saguaro PI posted:

Another indication backing was a great idea. Congrats GO and Fnorder on your placings.

Any of you lucky Gencon folk get to check out Exceed? Any other exciting news?

Seconding both of these. Congrats on your high placements guys. Hope you got something cool for doing so well. Curious about any potential early looks at Exceed.

Also wondering if those Red Horizon Promos for BattleCon ever materialized. Been curious about those for quite a while.

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ForgedIron
Oct 15, 2013

Deez Nutz
So a buddy went, I haven't converted him to the cause but he picked up an Evil Hikaru promo for me!

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