Is it ethical to blacklist workers for bullshit?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Is it ethical to blacklist workers for bullshit?

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

That's not blacklisting, and it's even less blackballing. Besides, how are you going to enforce a ban on this?

# ¿ Jul 10, 2015 14:48

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 01:19

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

wateroverfire posted:

At the very least it's attempting to torpedo someone's future prospects. Are you saying that's ethical? I have a business plan to write.

Is it? If someone's most recent employer informs a friend of theirs in the industry that that guy sexually harassed people and couldn't get anything done on time, does that really "torpedo someone's future prospects"? Maybe you shouldn't be so passive-aggressive and start on the full mosquito whine now.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2015 14:53

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

wateroverfire posted:

Soooooooo you see no ethical problems with it?

Answer my question, my good man. Wouldn't want to be caught being dishonest now.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2015 15:03

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

wateroverfire posted:

*Notes poster name*

Hmmm.

Mmmh.

I see.

*reluctantly shakes head*

No can do.

Okay then. I think you've adequately summed up your intellectual powers here. Thanks for playing.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2015 15:07

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

wateroverfire posted:

In the shitposting with Effectronica game, the only way to win is not to play.

I asked a question that was infinitely more sincere than anything you've smarmed about in this thread. You, of course, dodged it, because your existence is a pestilence and the day of your death will be a joyous one.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2015 15:11

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

The proposition quoted is about unethical behavior, and being a fuckup on the job. If the second thing is defamation and ruins anyone from ever having a chance at a job, that seems to suggest that business owners are universally evil and stupid, which is very telling coming from a professed business owner. If the first is defamation, of course, depends on what is considered unethical. But this is really, "Did those gosh-dang lefties give me an excuse to discriminate?" and we really should stop pretending even if the OP will never do so till his dying day.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2015 15:19

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Adventure Pigeon posted:

Yeah, this is pretty much how I feel about things. I'm surprised people are arguing for blacklists outside of official channels given their history.

What is being described in the OP is not a blacklist. Blacklisting is when everyone agrees not to hire someone.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2015 17:21

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Ytlaya posted:

I think the concern would be that someone could lie about someone else doing bad things. I don't really have a problem with the idea of "blacklisting" people who are bigots or sexually harass their coworkers, but I worry about people falsely accusing others of doing these things (not that this can't already happen to some extent). I can definitely see the similarity to McCarthyism, but it's still worthy of a discussion because of the rather key difference that the thing people are being accused of is actually genuinely bad.

I think I would find this sort of "blacklisting" more acceptable if people had to provide proof of others doing bigoted/harmful things. Like, if you could show a bunch of Facebook posts by some guy where he talks about how terrible black people are, I don't really see a problem with employers being aware of that information. It's just very important for there to be a strong legal framework where people can challenge claims against them and force their employers/potential employers to show cause (which should apply to being fired in general).

Ultimately, I'm inclined to be against an actual organised blacklist of people who have displayed bigotry. I feel that the potential harm and backlash from such a thing would outweigh any of its possible benefits. I do, however, think that peoples' public* online (and offline) activity should be able to be used as grounds for their dismissal or rejection, provided people have the option of cheaply legally challenging this (bolding this just because I would be totally against this sort of thing if this condition isn't met). I believe the courts are more or less able to discern whether something someone said/did is significantly harmful/offensive to justify them being fired(/not hired), and if anything they would probably err on the side of thinking that most forms of speech aren't a good enough justification. I don't really see most courts saying "it's okay to fire this person because they said X" unless X is something really loving racist/whatever.

* I don't think it's okay for someone to take some private conversation and show that to someone else's employer, for example

Sure, but it's much easier to provide a way for people to challenge that than to ban people from talking about people they've employed. Off the top of my head, requiring that companies inform rejected applicants (or people rejected after getting past a certain stage) why they've been rejected would provide grounds for people to challenge false claims or sue for defamation.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2015 17:27

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Adventure Pigeon posted:

They're both working through unofficial channels to prevent someone from being hired. There may be justifiable reasons for this sometimes, but it's pretty open to abuse.

I don't think there's any good way to stop an employer from googling a prospective employee, but I don't think it's a good thing. How easy is it to legally challenge an employer that didn't hire you? Especially if they can come up with a reasonable explanation, even if the real reason was a nasty search result.

A blacklist is a ban everyone agrees to hold to. What is described is, at most, an effort to persuade someone one way or another. People are not actually 100% persuasive. The issue is if someone lies or defames or if it's because of irrelevancies.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2015 17:43

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

SeaWolf posted:

As someone who has personally been the victim of the kind of defamation I can tell you that it can absolutely gently caress up someone's career prospects and that it's better to err on the side of letting someone's history speak for itself rather than allow employers to talk amongst themselves and determine who's worth employing

If you're a chronic fuckup your history is going to follow you, you're going to have a lot of short employment stints and competent HR and interviewing can weed those people out most of the time.

On the other hand if you're starting out in your career, get fired illegally and don't exactly have a ton of references while your former employer harps on to anyone that calls saying ridiculous things that can absolutely destroy your prospects. Oh but it's as easy as getting a lawyer and making them stfu. Well, lawyers cost time and money, and when you don't have a lot of money and certainly don't have any money coming in that's not an easy battle to win.

So how bout we don't let employers share lists about why so and so is terrible at their job and shouldn't be employed.

You can't stop them from talking, realistically. Doing so would create more problems than it would solve. So the question is how to prevent abuses. The long-term answer is, you know, ending the capitalist system etc.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2015 17:49

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 01:19

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

on the left posted:

Blacklists are unnecessary. The future of recruiting for any "good job" is going to be based heavily on "cultural fit" and social networks. People that are far outside of cultural norms will be filtered out by these methods.

Oh, good, culture jamming will be able to create the conditions for revolution all on its own then.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2015 12:50

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Is it ethical to blacklist workers for bullshit?