|
This thread is for Hydrans, Federation, Gorn, or Kzinti This thread is CLOSED to Romulans, Klingons, or Lyrans Senario 3 - Shipyard attack  Long range scans have revealed the rough layout of the sector. The hazy black areas are where inactive ships were detected - you couldn't get any more precise data at this range. You may deploy in any formation you desire, at any speed you desire, and are entering from the South edge of this map. Your phasers are armed, your fighters are armed, and the capacitors on your fighter ready racks are armed. Ship assignments and deployments are due in 48 hours. Gnoman fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Jul 14, 2015 |
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 02:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 03:51 |
|
|
Do our Hellbores have an initial charge? And can we get a higher resolution version of the map, I'm having trouble making out what's on it. Unless that's meant to simulate the fuzzy scans in which case nevermind. Also, what are the capacitors for our fighter ready racks?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 02:41
|
|
|
Shoeless posted:Do our Hellbores have an initial charge? And can we get a higher resolution version of the map, I'm having trouble making out what's on it. Unless that's meant to simulate the fuzzy scans in which case nevermind. Also, what are the capacitors for our fighter ready racks? Right-click and open image in new tab. Hellbores have no inital charge, as they can't be held. As for your other question: Each FIGHTER box on your ship has a "ready rack" to service that fighter and is used to arm the non-phaser weapons (in this case, fusion beams). For fusion-armed fighters, the ready rack has a capacitor that hold 8 points of energy, each of which can provide a "charge" for a fighter's fusion beam. Each fighter has two beams, and each beam can hold two charges, so a full capacitor will rearm a fighter twice. It takes one deck crew action (you have 1 deck crew per fighter and a deck crew action takes 32 impulses) to load two charges onto a fighter. Questions like this are one of the reasons I switched the thread format - it's a lot easier to respond to questions this way, and other players can weigh in on it. Gnoman fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jul 13, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 02:48
|
|
|
Ah, okay. For the ready racks, at full charge they can reload a fighter twice. Now, once they're depleted, is that it or can they be given more charges from the ship's energy? Conversely, can the ship draw energy from the fighter racks, as if they were makeshift batteries?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 02:51
|
|
|
Shoeless posted:Ah, okay. For the ready racks, at full charge they can reload a fighter twice. Now, once they're depleted, is that it or can they be given more charges from the ship's energy? Conversely, can the ship draw energy from the fighter racks, as if they were makeshift batteries? You can recharge them. You cannot use them as a battery.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 03:04
|
|
|
Gnoman posted:You can recharge them. You cannot use them as a battery. Alright, makes sense. Is there any bonus to the exchange rate of power from the ship to the fighter racks or is it just a 1:1 ratio? Also, when you get here Berryjon, how do you want to distribute our forces?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 03:05
|
|
|
Shoeless posted:Alright, makes sense. Is there any bonus to the exchange rate of power from the ship to the fighter racks or is it just a 1:1 ratio? It's 1:1 - note that this makes fighter fusions potentially cheaper to fire than ship-mounted ones if you only shoot at range <5.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 03:07
|
|
|
Gnoman posted:It's 1:1 - note that this makes fighter fusions potentially cheaper to fire than ship-mounted ones if you only shoot at range <5. Oh, I hadn't even thought of that. Of course to re-arm them takes a turn, right, 32 impulses? And while I could assign 2 crews to a single fighter, that would just mean that it got all 4 charges in 32 impulses rather than 2, it wouldn't speed up the charging any? But that is definitely something to consider. And heck, as the fighers are already charges and the racks are as well, they're effectively free for now, with energy already allocated. So woohoo, effectively 12 "free" Fusion Beam shots per fighter assuming none of the racks or fighters get destroyed before having exhausted all those charges! And you mentioned that fighters get 2 points of free ECM past 10 hexes, and 4 past 20, right? I take it that overlaps with any added ECM given by the carrier? IE, if the carrier gives 2 points of ECM, that won't help the fighters unless they're being targeted by something at 9 hexes or less? Also, how does what Berryjon fit in with that, saying that fighters automatically get 2 points of free ECM and ECCM? I hope all these questions aren't getting annoying.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 03:15
|
|
|
Shoeless posted:And you mentioned that fighters get 2 points of free ECM past 10 hexes, and 4 past 20, right? I take it that overlaps with any added ECM given by the carrier? IE, if the carrier gives 2 points of ECM, that won't help the fighters unless they're being targeted by something at 9 hexes or less? Also, how does what Berryjon fit in with that, saying that fighters automatically get 2 points of free ECM and ECCM? I hope all these questions aren't getting annoying. As I understand it: Fighters have points of "natural" ECM for being a small target - this applies only to direct-fire weapons at the listed ranges. This is always active. Fighters can generate 2 points each of ECM and ECCM by themselves. This is seperate from (and stacks with) the "natural" ECM for being a small target. Carriers (and there is some confusion under which ships count as carriers for this scenario) can lend a total of 6 points to their fighters divided between ECM and ECCM (this is seperate from that generated for the carrier's own use. Fighters have a maximum of 6 points each in non-natural (in other words, the small target bonus doesn't count) ECM and ECCM.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 03:21
|
|
|
Gnoman posted:Carriers (and there is some confusion under which ships count as carriers for this scenario) can lend a total of 6 points to their fighters divided between ECM and ECCM (this is seperate from that generated for the carrier's own use. Okay. Does the ECM/ECCM provided by the carrier stack with the fighter's innate ability to create 2 points of ECM and ECCM? If it doesn't, then it seems that you should only bother to give carrier-based ECM/ECCM if you're gonna pump 4 or 6 points into it, right?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 03:27
|
|
|
Shoeless posted:Okay. Does the ECM/ECCM provided by the carrier stack with the fighter's innate ability to create 2 points of ECM and ECCM? If it doesn't, then it seems that you should only bother to give carrier-based ECM/ECCM if you're gonna pump 4 or 6 points into it, right? It does.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 03:46
|
|
|
Sorry guys, my weekend is gonna be pretty busy - I won't have much time to talk until tomorrow evening. So, here's something to note: First, Speed 15 Stingers can move *16* hexes in a turn through creative use of speed changes - fast-slow-fast. Also, who gets which ships and associated fighters?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 05:18
|
|
|
berryjon posted:Sorry guys, my weekend is gonna be pretty busy - I won't have much time to talk until tomorrow evening. Given that Gnoman hasn't said, I'm guessing we're allowed to split them however we like. I don't mind waiting until tomorrow evening to pow-wow and kludge together a plan. Just looking over things, I like the look of the D7H, Dragoon and Command Cruiser if I had to choose which ships I'd like to captain. Also, grabbed our OOB from the main thread so we have it on hand: Gnoman posted:Hydran Order Of Battle Looking at it, the Knight, Lancer, Dragoon and Ranger all have their Phaser-Gs listed as RA. Is that a typo or do the Hydras just take rear-arc defense very seriously?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 07:06
|
|
|
Shoeless posted:Looking at it, the Knight, Lancer, Dragoon and Ranger all have their Phaser-Gs listed as RA. Is that a typo or do the Hydras just take rear-arc defense very seriously? It's accurate. Refits would expand this to RS and LS arcs like on the Lord Marshal (which is one of the latest Hydran designs and has the refit built-in), but none of these ships have it. berryjon posted:So, here's something to note: First, Speed 15 Stingers can move *16* hexes in a turn through creative use of speed changes - fast-slow-fast. 1. Due to a number of factors, I'm not using the mid-turn speed change rules. 2. You may divide the ships however you like, and the fighters go with the ship.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 12:48
|
|
|
Gnoman posted:It's accurate. Refits would expand this to RS and LS arcs like on the Lord Marshal (which is one of the latest Hydran designs and has the refit built-in), but none of these ships have it. Well crap. So if torps come our way, turn to the rear, got it. Edit: Can the Romulan torpedo bombers use enveloping torps with their Plasma Fs? Shoeless fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jul 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 17:49
|
|
|
Shoeless posted:Well crap. So if torps come our way, turn to the rear, got it. Fighter weapons cannot be overloaded.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 01:37
|
|
|
Important information (cross-posted from the Coalition thread): I made an error when laying out the scenario. The weapons for the Romulan Auxiliary Carrier are Phasers 1 Phaser-1 360 2 Phaser-1 360 3 Plasma-D LS 4 Plasma-D RS The Plasma-D is a cross between a drone and a plasma torpedo. It requires ammunition (four rounds per launcher, one set of reloads) as well as energy (1/2 point per round, may be spent all at once, and will last for 25 turns), has a base warhead of 10 (which lasts until range 5 before degrading starts). The advantage is that is is very rapid-fire in defensive mode, and can be fired once per impulse (limited, of course, by ammunition supply) against fighters or drones. This information will be cross-posted to the Alliance thread.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 03:40
|
|
|
Gnoman posted:1. Due to a number of factors, I'm not using the mid-turn speed change rules. Why? And can we fill out our own EAFs and movement plots?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 04:38
|
|
|
berryjon posted:Why? 1. I do not like them. 2. It is a complex system that I don't want to bother fairly new players with 3. This format puts all the work on me, and I don't want to add the extra work 4. I do not like them. You can fill out an EAF and movement chart (both are the best method for ensuring I do exactly what you want me to do, any vagueness and I have to use my best judgement.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 04:48
|
|
|
Are you also going to ban ship-to-ship tractor beams as well? Here's fun stuff for everyone on all sides of the Game! code:code:
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 05:26
|
|
|
Oh, nice, those looks great! What's ATU1 and ATU2?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 05:32
|
|
|
Shoeless posted:Oh, nice, those looks great! What's ATU1 and ATU2? ATrition Unit - Fighters and Gunboats. C/P those line as many times as you need to for each fighter associated with the ship in question.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 05:41
|
|
|
Awesome. So, shall we discuss our division of ships?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 06:40
|
|
|
berryjon posted:Are you also going to ban ship-to-ship tractor beams as well? No. The only subsystem I am not using is Mid-turn speed changes and optional rules such as the positron flywheel.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 13:24
|
|
|
Shoeless posted:Awesome. So, shall we discuss our division of ships? If you want the cruisers and affiliated fighters, go for it. You're newer than I, so giving you the heavier and more survivable ships is a given. So, that gives you the LM+6ST-1, the RN+9ST-1, DG+3ST-1, the D7H+2ST-1 and I get the LN+4ST-1 and KN. If you don't think that's fair, I can take the Ranger (less fighters for you to deal with) or the D7H (A surprisingly poor ship in fleet combat - it's historical use by the Hydrans was due to a desperate need for heavy hulls and as a slap-in-the-face to the Klingon invaders.) Now, here are two pieces of advice for you to run with - first, stack your ships. Have all your ships using the same speed, and turning with the worst turn mode in the ships you are using. The "Stack" allows you to focus your fire as well as give all your ships mutual coverage against enemy seekers and ships. This is especially vital with the amount of Plasma that can be thrown our way. #2 - Don't arm the fusions on your ships. I am serious with this. You only arm the fusions on the turn you expect to fire them - and not before. Yes, they are armed for two points of power, and hold for 1, but that'll be 4 power you are spending on off turns that could be used for movement or reinforcement. And for the Hydrans, who want to get close, that four power translates to four extra hexes of movement for your cruisers. The most basic plan for the Hydrans in this situation would be the R10 battle-pass. Effectively we would select a target ship and advance on them, aiming to get to R10 near the end of the turn. Keep the Turn Mode Filled during this approach. At Range 10 (Or 8 if you're feeling stupidly lucky and want to push for overloads), fire everything at the single enemy. Fusions and Phaser-2/1's as normal, and Hellbores during the Second Hellbore Firing Option*. Once we've fired, TURN AWAY. This allows us to open up the range on the next turn to run out Plasma Torps (and with the amount of R-torps in the enemy fleet, this is a given), and will also bring our RA Gatlings to bear on any of said torpedoes as they come up our rear. And it will be vital to start landing our surviving fighters ASAP and to begin reloading them**. On the next turn, go to high speed and fall back, letting distance and our gatlings deal with plasma. *The Hellbore is unique in that it can fire before or after all other weapons in the same impulse. Because it also deals its damage to the weakest shield, firing everything to weaken one shield, then letting the Hellbores exploit the down/weak shield is standard and viable, especially at the squadron and fleet scale. *ST-1's have 4 Fusion Charges for their weapons, and we will be using all of them each time we fire at R10. Each ship that carries fighters also carries "Ready Racks" for all their fighters - and because all our ships have the same fighter type, it doesn't matter if fighters wind up on the wrong ship. Anyway, these Ready Racks hold 8 'charges' for the Fusion beams - two full loads. The ships can add more charges by spending 1 point of power each (no, don't try to reload everything all at once). What will happen is that the fighters will land on the ships (remember that they cannot land under their own power if the ship is moving faster than they are - which is speed 15), and begin to reload. It will take two full turns to reload every fighter with the full 4 charges, so we will spend those turns reloading the Hellbores as well and keeping the distance open. Once everything is reloaded, we repeat the process. If/when they cloak, I will run you through anti-cloak tactics. Depending on the situation, they may have just handed us the game if they cloak out. GNOMAN: Do we have any Transporter Mines? Do the Romulan Warbirds/War Eagles have their Nuclear Space Mine?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 20:11
|
|
|
That sounds solid all around. Why is the D7H not so great? On paper at least it seems good- decent power generation and turn modes, plus Hellbores and Fusion Beams, plus the phasers. Also, Gnoman mentioned a while back in the first post for this scenario that the Hydrans haven't gotten to where they can hold Fusion Beams yet, so that's a moot issue. When do we want to release the Stingers? I was assuming on the turn we get into R10 from what you said, so that they can zoom in and exploit weakened shields the next turn with Close Combat Maneuvering (2 fusion beams times however many fighters at range 0 against the weakest shield =  )Where should we start our ships, and at what speed/facing?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 20:31
|
|
|
Shoeless posted:That sounds solid all around. Why is the D7H not so great? On paper at least it seems good- decent power generation and turn modes, plus Hellbores and Fusion Beams, plus the phasers. Also, Gnoman mentioned a while back in the first post for this scenario that the Hydrans haven't gotten to where they can hold Fusion Beams yet, so that's a moot issue. The D7H has too many weapons and not enough power. 4 Hellbores, 2 Fusions and 7 phasers with only 39 power? Remember, 12 of that is going into the Hellbores, leaving 27 left. I've used that ship in campaigns before, and I regretted the purchase. Stingers, like all fighters, require 8 impulses from launch before they can fire their weapons - depending on the starting speed and location, we should launch them near the end of the first turn. And you just made a very common mistake with the Stingers - sending them in alone while unsupported by the ships. Yes, we have quite a few of them - no, they won't survive to make their hits. Once they take 7 damage (2 P1's at R5 can pretty much guarantee that) they become crippled, and lose the ability to fire their Fusions. Yes, Fusion beams do amazing amounts of damage at range 0, but they also deal damage on a 1-5 out of 6 at range 10. What we want is to cripple or kill a couple ships, one at a time before moving in for the kill. Range 0 becomes an option if they cloak out in response to us, but I can only make that call once/if they go under. GNOMAN: Is this a 84x60 map? I tried counting hexes, but it blurred together after a while. We should start at 0160B, the lower-left corner. Everyone in the same hex, facing toward the center. Turn 1 will be loading our fighters and reloading the ready racks while moving at speed~20ish for the first turn. Minimal ECM, no ECCM to work against long range sniping from the Romulans with any spare power being fed into the #1 shield at reinforcement. Fighters stay on the ship until the turn we make our battle pass. The necessity of the Stack will lock us at speed 15 (14 if the Stigners use Erratic Maneuvers on the way in) for the turn (cursed no Mid Turn Speed Changes) for the turn, so we want to do that starting at Range 25 from the selected target at the most. After that, I want to see what the Romulans do before making further decisions.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 21:02
|
|
|
Okay, can do. Our fighters are already charged as are the ready racks, so we don't need to load them. They can launch whenever we want, which sounds like it's gonna be the turn we go in at range 10. So, to confirm: Start at lower left hex, facing B. What speed do we want to do? It seems like since our phasers and fighters are already loaded, we only have to power basic systems (not even fire control I guess since we're not firing weapons or tractors), speed, ECM and shield reinforcement. Do we want to begin charging some Wild Weasels in case of "Oh god so many plasma torpedoes", or are we going to try and deal with them by running as far as we can to wear down the warhead and then shoot them with rear gatling phasers? Shoeless fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Jul 13, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 21:32
|
|
|
In this scenario, weasels are a desperation maneuver. Charge them by all means, but don't launch them. Pseudo Torpedos are now a thing - which are fake normal torps. You can't Pseudo an enveloper, thank goodness. Torpedoes will be dealt with using speed and gatlings; that is correct. Is there any ship you want to hand over to me, or do you wish to retain the full Cruiser squadron?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 21:45
|
|
|
berryjon posted:In this scenario, weasels are a desperation maneuver. Charge them by all means, but don't launch them. Why don't you take the D7H, since it's probably got a closer maneuver profile to the lighter Knight and Lancers? Doesn't matter as much since we're gonna stack up, but...
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 21:57
|
|
|
It will be less effort for you to work with, given that you only have to deal with three ships now, instead of four. Did you want help filling out the EAF for Gnoman?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 22:36
|
|
|
berryjon posted:It will be less effort for you to work with, given that you only have to deal with three ships now, instead of four. I think I can do it, but I'll let you know if I run into trouble. What speed do we want to go for this turn? Since we want to keep in the same hex, making sure we're all going the same speed would be good.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 22:40
|
|
|
Shoeless posted:I think I can do it, but I'll let you know if I run into trouble. What speed do we want to go for this turn? Since we want to keep in the same hex, making sure we're all going the same speed would be good. As my destroyers have a 2/3 move, I think speed 21 or 18 would be best for the turn. It's a long, straight approach and I will defer to the guy with the Command Cruiser for the exact choice there.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 22:42
|
|
|
berryjon posted:As my destroyers have a 2/3 move, I think speed 21 or 18 would be best for the turn. It's a long, straight approach and I will defer to the guy with the Command Cruiser for the exact choice there. Well, all my stuff's Turn Mode C. But since we're just moving forward at max speed, it shouldn't matter too much so speed 21 works for me. Then just head forward B for the half-turn, and we can figure out what to do with fighter launches and stuff once we get a clearer picture of what the enemy's disposition is at the half-turn.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 22:48
|
|
|
That will work. Once I get home this evening, I'll drop stuff into SFBOL and check out various potential EAFs for all our ships, and start energy tracking* for the enemy ships. *Reverse-Engineering the enemy EAFs by the actions they perform during the turn. It can be useful to figure out how much power they have unaccounted for with regards to weapon arming.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 23:00
|
|
|
Hydrans Turn 1 Part 1 orders sent.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 23:15
|
|
|
For my reference, can you post them here?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 00:09
|
|
|
berryjon posted:For my reference, can you post them here? Oh, sure! Hydrans Turn 1 Part 1 Lord Marshal, Chivalry, Tranquility: Deploy in the bottom-leftmost hex, facing B. Lord Marshal: Speed 21 ---Prep 1 Wild Weasel ---Set ECM to 2 ---Remaining power to Specific Reinforce #1 shield Chivalry: Speed 21 ---Prep 1 Wild Weasel ---Set ECM to 2 ---Remaining power to Specific Reinforce #1 Shield Tranquility: Speed 21 ---Prep 1 Wild Weasel ---Set ECM to 2 ---Remaining power to Specific Reinforce #1 Shield All Ships: Move B.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 00:28
|
|
|
The Lord Marshal and Dragoon should have power allocated to Hellbores as well. Edit - I made an error as well. My destroyers are MC 0.5, not 2/3. This turns out well as Life Support in 0.5 power, so I am utilizing a whole number there. berryjon fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Jul 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 01:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 03:51 |
|
|
berryjon posted:The Lord Marshal and Dragoon should have power allocated to Hellbores as well. Ah shoot, I'd forgotten that. Thanks, I hope Gnoman's okay with a last minute change. Also, our orders are due in like, 40 minutes are so so if you haven't sent yours in you may want to hurry. Edit: revised turn orders Hydran Turn 1 Fixed sent. Sorry about that Gnoman. Shoeless fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Jul 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 01:20
|
|