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For some reason, I can't PM Gnoman, so I'l have to post my stuff here. Hey, Coalition Players? Eyes closed! code:code:Conditional: If an enemy unit is detected within 25 hexes, begin Erratic Meanuvers. code:Conditional: If an enemy unit is detected within 25 hexes, begin Erratic Meanuvers.
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Jul 14, 2015 01:32
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 03:14 |
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He doesn't have PMs, you send your orders to sasfblp@gmail.com and post, in bold, the subject of the email in this thread.
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Jul 14, 2015 02:11
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Shoeless posted:He doesn't have PMs, you send your orders to sasfblp@gmail.com and post, in bold, the subject of the email in this thread. Where the hell was that written down? Because it wasn't in the original thread when people started giving their orders to him, and it's not in this thread. Turn 1 Hydran Orders are in.
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Jul 14, 2015 02:18
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berryjon posted:Where the hell was that written down? Because it wasn't in the original thread when people started giving their orders to him, and it's not in this thread. It's in the original thread, this post, : http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3727891&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1#post447128742 Gnoman posted:For this battle, and possibly the next few, I will be running the turns fully open except for orders, which must be emailed to me at sasfblp at gmail, an account which I set up specifically for this thread.
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Jul 14, 2015 02:33
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You can post your orders openly here - this thread is closed to the Alliance players, and theirs is closed to you.
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Jul 14, 2015 03:07
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Gnoman posted:You can post your orders openly here - this thread is closed to the Alliance players, and theirs is closed to you. Redundancy is much appreciated.
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Jul 14, 2015 03:14
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berryjon posted:Redundancy is much appreciated. Certainly. Did you want your ships to be deployed in the same hex as Shoeless? As for the map, it's hexagonal, centered on the FRDs, and each point is 40 hexes from the center. I left the border off to avoid too much clutter, but it will be in all later shots. EDIT: Also, the previous deadline was for deployment, rather than orders. After I post the map (Have to wait for a clarification from berryjon, you'll have the option of amending your orders to fit the observed Romulan deploymment. Gnoman fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Jul 14, 2015 |
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Jul 14, 2015 03:21
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Gnoman posted:Certainly. Did you want your ships to be deployed in the same hex as Shoeless? No, my deployment is in the same hex as Shoeless' forces. What? I told him to use the stack. I'm not about to ignore my own advice!
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Jul 14, 2015 03:42
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berryjon posted:No, my deployment is in the same hex as Shoeless' forces. Just wanted to be sure. I'll update the map now.
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Jul 14, 2015 03:49
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Gnoman posted:Just wanted to be sure. I'll update the map now. Cool beans. Also, just to clarify, we're to keep to this thread only since the main thread will show both side's actions, including things we might not know, right? But we'll get turn updates in this thread for things we do know?
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Jul 14, 2015 04:03
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Shoeless posted:Cool beans. Also, just to clarify, we're to keep to this thread only since the main thread will show both side's actions, including things we might not know, right? But we'll get turn updates in this thread for things we do know? Right.
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Jul 14, 2015 04:05
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As the Hydran fleet drops into Tactical Warp, long range sensors clarify the tactical situation a great deal. There are a ton of ships here, most of which appear to be inactive - due to the huge number of hulls in the area, you can't be sure at this range which are powered and which are not. The hulls appear to be mostly grouped by hull type, with a F5-class frigate and two freighters directly in the center. Here is a closer look at the scan data for the area, with labels.  Orders must be verified within 48 hours.
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Jul 14, 2015 04:21
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That has to be the entirety of the Romulan Fleet. No change in orders. Something is up here.
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Jul 14, 2015 04:27
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berryjon posted:That has to be the entirety of the Romulan Fleet. Well we were told that they were currently refitting a ton of vessels here, which is why we're attacking-to destroy them before they're finished and operational. Capture or burn them in the cradle was the term, I believe.
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Jul 14, 2015 04:48
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Shoeless posted:Well we were told that they were currently refitting a ton of vessels here, which is why we're attacking-to destroy them before they're finished and operational. Capture or burn them in the cradle was the term, I believe. You misunderstand. That's drat near all of them. Like at least 80% of their entire fleet in one place. The only things missing are the Vulture Dreadnoughts. And the things that can't move. Like bases. And if this isn't the whole of the Romulan Fleet, then the numbers that we will see in the future will be truly massive on the strategic scale.
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Jul 14, 2015 05:04
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berryjon posted:You misunderstand. Then it sounds like we better complete our mission and ensure that all these ship turned to scrap or repurposed for the Hydrans. If it is most of the Romulan fleet, then we'll have dealt them a potentially mortal blow. If it's "only" like 20% of their forces, well, that's still gonna hurt them big time.
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Jul 14, 2015 05:13
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Berry, I'm assuming that not raising shields on the Lancer destroyers was a mistake, and that the unallocated energy was intended for that purpose.
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Jul 14, 2015 05:34
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Yes, that was a mistake. I didn't mean for the Lancer to go without, and I did account for it in the total energy allocated.
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Jul 14, 2015 05:36
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berryjon posted:Yes, that was a mistake. I didn't mean for the Lancer to go without, and I did account for it in the total energy allocated. That's what I thought - you had one point unallocated, and full shields is one point.
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Jul 14, 2015 05:37
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No change in orders.
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Jul 15, 2015 04:28
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Movement Orders as they stand
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Jul 15, 2015 05:13
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Hydran Speed 21 Impulse 1 Heavy transporter activity detected Active War Eagle detected! Speed 8. Active War Eagle detected! Speed 8. Active War Eagle detected! Speed 12. Active War Eagle detected! Speed 12. Active War Eagle detected! Speed 8. Active War Eagle detected! Speed 8. Shuttles launching from all active War Eagles.  Impulse 2 Shuttles launching from all active War Eagles. Impulse 3 War Eagle 1 engages Cloak War Eagle 2 engages Cloak War Eagle 4 engages Cloak War Eagle 6 engages Cloak Impulse 16  War Eagle 1 and 2 are in the RF arc of all hydran ships, range 18 War Eagle 3 and 4 are in the RF arc of all hydran ships, range 33 Orders for part 2 are due in 48 hours.
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Jul 15, 2015 17:09
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At this range, there's no way we retained a lock on. Also, there are no hexes in that last image, so I can't plot out a proper course. Can you please provide one?
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Jul 15, 2015 17:21
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berryjon posted:At this range, there's no way we retained a lock on. My apologies, I forgot to show the grid.  As for the other, when using hidden movement, each ship gets told the 60 degree arc and true range on impulses 8 and 24. I forgot to do it at 8, so I did it at 16. With a lock on you would get that information every impulse.
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Jul 15, 2015 17:37
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Shoeless, we're in deep trouble here. Our beloved GM is using the Optional Rule called "Hidden Cloaked Movement". Normally, when a ship cloaks, it is still 'visible' in the hex it is currently in - given that a hex is 10,000km wide and most ships are less than 500m long, it is sufficient for most levels of play. And in the 20+ years that I've played this game, this is the first time I've ever had to use that rule. What does this mean? It means that our primary anti-cloak tactics aren't going to work. I need to review the rules and think about new options. For now, I would like you to plot a course for the remaining movement that makes an immediate right, and uses side slips to keep us toward the bottom of the map. Grab the image in the previous post, and doodle on that to show Gnoman where we are going. At the very least, I'm going to have to write some interesting contingency orders.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:35
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Well crap. And there's transporter activity... I'm guessing they're trying to bring crews from the active ships and the freighters to the un-crewed ships, hence the heavy transporter activity and the shuttles going out. Might we want to just try heading in and taking out the freighters first? If they're cloaked they cannot fire, and currently we outnumber them by a significant margin. So if they do uncloak and try to attack us, we should be alright. Especially if they didn't have plasma torps readied (I doubt they do), which means we don't need to worry about them until next turn.
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Jul 15, 2015 19:41
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Shoeless posted:Well crap. And there's transporter activity... I'm guessing they're trying to bring crews from the active ships and the freighters to the un-crewed ships, hence the heavy transporter activity and the shuttles going out. Might we want to just try heading in and taking out the freighters first? If they're cloaked they cannot fire, and currently we outnumber them by a significant margin. So if they do uncloak and try to attack us, we should be alright. Especially if they didn't have plasma torps readied (I doubt they do), which means we don't need to worry about them until next turn. Possibly. At this range, we should have been able to see which shields were up or down (D17.4, B: COARSE ELECTRONIC SIGNATURE DETECTION) which would allow us to predict where transporters were going to or coming from; and under the same rule, section C: CLASSIFICATION DETECTION, the hex which contains an activated transporter is known to us. If we're using Tactical Intelligence, of course. Info level B is attained at range 50, C at Range 40 for our ships. If we're not using that rule set, then we should have been given this information by default.
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Jul 16, 2015 03:21
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Alright, I'll hold off on sending my orders until we hear from Gnoman about that and decide on what we're gonna do.
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Jul 16, 2015 04:17
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berryjon posted:Possibly. At this range, we should have been able to see which shields were up or down (D17.4, B: COARSE ELECTRONIC SIGNATURE DETECTION) which would allow us to predict where transporters were going to or coming from; and under the same rule, section C: CLASSIFICATION DETECTION, the hex which contains an activated transporter is known to us. Special scenario rule. Until they move or you get close enough, you can't distinguish between the active ships and the inactive ones because low-level energy use on the inactive ships is causing some sensor interference.
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Jul 16, 2015 04:38
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Are there any special targeting rules or conditions for firing on random ships waiting for refit?
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Jul 16, 2015 04:56
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berryjon posted:Are there any special targeting rules or conditions for firing on random ships waiting for refit? Nope. They're easier to hit than normal ships, even. I'm also using the Hidden Placement option for mines (NSM are the only ones you have to worry about in this scenario). Gnoman fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Jul 16, 2015 |
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Jul 16, 2015 05:15
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Gnoman posted:I'm also using the Hidden Placement option for mines (NSM are the only ones you have to worry about in this scenario). F#CK. Shoeless, this is important: There is a type of mine in this game (well, there are more, but as we're not dealing with a pre-placed minefield, we can ignore the really advanced types) that we need to worry about. These are plain, old, explosive mines. Coming in two sizes, these weapons are undetectable under the rules being used unless they are laid by a transporter away from the ship (if such an action occurred, they cannot be hidden. The first size is standard, also called "Transporter Mines". Called that because of the typical method of deployment, T-Bombs (which I asked repeatedly earlier in the thread if we had any), when detonated, deal 10 points of damage to everything in the same hex, and in every adjacent hex. The other size is Large, or more commonly - the Romulan Nuclear Space Mine. Dealing 25 damage, this device is so large that is can only be deployed by dropping it out the shuttle bay of the ship, and outside of dedicated mine layers, only Romulan 1st Generation (in this scenario the War Birds, War Eagles and Snipes) ships can carry them, and only 1. Mines have several activation criteria. First is range. They can be set to detonate if they detect a unit at Range 0 or at Range 1. Please note that regardless of detection range, the explosion range is the same. The second criteria is the size class of the detected unit. Now, something that Gnoman hasn't covered yet is Size Class. Every unit in the game is given a Size ranging from 0 through 7, with the smaller the number being larger. 0 is for stellar bodies - moons, asteroids, planets, stars, etc... It is also used to describe certain space monsters that are truly colossal. SC1 describes the larger bases, like Star Bases. SC2 is the largest mobile units - Dreadnoughts and Battleships. SC3 covers Cruisers - ships with a move cost of between 2/3 and 5/4's inclusive. SC4 covers Destroyers and smaller - my Lancer and Knight, for example. SC5 is for Gunboats and small planetary bases (not in this scenario). SC6 are shuttles and fighters. SC7 are seeking weapons, like drones and plasma. Anyway, mines can be set to detonate when detecting only certain size classes that move within their detection radius. Common tricks include excluding SC7 to allow you to fire drones through mines, or SC6 to allow fighters to pass through safely. The last criteria is the Skip count. The mine can ignore up to 6 otherwise legal targets before blowing up. There are a multitude of tactical considerations where this is concerned, but I think you're smart enough to realize the implications of "ignore the first couple targets, then blow up" can mean. All these criteria have to be set when the mine is placed, and cannot be changed. Once a mine is laid, it is hostile to everything, including the unit that laid it. Hitting ones own mine is a sign of desperation, or folly. Now, mines can be swept. You see, they only activate if, when a unit could trigger them, if their speed is greater than a roll of 1d6. Per impulse. If you manage to get to R1 or R0 of a mine, and your speed is 0 or 1, you can attach a tractor beam to the mine, and then either fire drones or phasers at it to destroy it safely. Mine sweeping is a tedious and extremely dangerous job, and dedicated mine sweepers are fairly specialized to the task. Or you can hit a mine with an active ESG. This detonates the mine, and the ESG absorbs the blast. The Lyrans are the best minesweepers in the entire game due to this, and it's a running joke that Lyran Frigates live only to sweep mines. On the bright side, if a cloaked unit is caught in a mine explosion, there is a "Flashcube" effect/rule, which allows every unit that could achieve lock-on to the unit a chance to do so that impulse. This is why I wanted to know if we had any T-bombs, not for the damage, but to flush out cloakers. ===== Alright, we have a couple options. The first is to play conservatively, and wait for the Romulans to show themselves. GNOMAN: I want a Break Condition for when a Romulan ship decloaks. Not when they are fully decloaked, but for when they drop the system, and are at +5, not x2+5. This does cede initiative to the Romulans, but with hidden cloaking, the usual anti cloaking tactics do not apply. We wait for them to pop up, and try to play whack-a-mole with their ships. Hellbores and Fusions will be our weapon of choice while phasers will be mostly reserved for anti-plasma work. Plan 1.1 is to start firing on the boneyard ships with shipboard weapons. Given these ships aren't moving, and Gnoman has said they would be easier to hit as a Special Scenario rule, our Fusions are pretty much guaranteed to do damage to R10 - or we can push for overload range (R8). We keep the fighters in reserve should the Romulans come knocking. Each ship destroyed is one more that can't be refit, and we can force the Romulans to come to us, lest they lose their ships. Plan 2 is to charge right in. The closer we are to a hidden unit, the more likely we are to find out where they are. This has the advantage of bringing consolidated firepower against Romulan Ships, and against their torpedoes, at the risk of getting bogged down with plasma coming in from all sides. On the bright side, the Romulan ships are actually quite vulnerable while cloaking or decloaking, and being withing R5 of one when it pops up is a great time for us. Which plan would you prefer? I'm in favor of 1.1, but you're an equal partner in this team so I want your input.
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Jul 16, 2015 19:32
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I like a mix of 1.1 and 2. We move in and start firing on the crewless ships, trying to get closer to the center to deal with the pair of freighters and the F5 to deal with them. This is going on the reasoning that the freighters have lots of personnel on board that if left unchecked will beam to more ships and increase our opposition. On the plus side, they have to drop shields to transport, and oh my, our Hellbores automatically do half their damage to the shield facing with the least energy remaining... If they want to transport, then no matter their facing to us we can deal internal damage with hellbores, if they try to send out shuttles we have phasers and (potentially) our fighters. What do you think?
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Jul 16, 2015 22:51
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Shoeless posted:What do you think? GNOMAN: Do the unmanned ships have shields up?
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Jul 17, 2015 03:20
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berryjon posted:GNOMAN: Do the unmanned ships have shields up? No.
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Jul 17, 2015 04:01
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berryjon posted:The other size is Large, or more commonly - the Romulan Nuclear Space Mine. Dealing 25 damage, this device is so large that is can only be deployed by dropping it out the shuttle bay of the ship, and outside of dedicated mine layers, only Romulan 1st Generation (in this scenario the War Birds, War Eagles and Snipes) ships can carry them, and only 1. 1. Large mines do 35 damage according to M2.501. 2. This sounds reasonable enough.
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Jul 17, 2015 04:29
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Gnoman posted:No. Good. Shoeless, we will be able to tell which ships are active by when they activate shields. What I would like you to do is to plot a course that will take us toward the nearest empty ship, using side slips instead of turns. I will be writing contingency orders tomorrow morning for sudden decloaking ships.
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Jul 17, 2015 04:31
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berryjon posted:Good. Shoeless, we will be able to tell which ships are active by when they activate shields. I take it you mean nearest visible enemy ship, ie the (presumably) crewless ones? Though there is a non-cloaked active Romulan vessel in that direction as well. We can continue our current heading and get closer to the core of the shipyard and the nearest active uncloaked romulan vessel. Do you still wish to sideslip to keep distance? Also, what speed? 21 again?
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Jul 17, 2015 06:05
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Shoeless posted:I take it you mean nearest visible enemy ship, ie the (presumably) crewless ones? Though there is a non-cloaked active Romulan vessel in that direction as well. We can continue our current heading and get closer to the core of the shipyard and the nearest active uncloaked romulan vessel. Do you still wish to sideslip to keep distance? Also, what speed? 21 again? Nope, Gnoman isn't allowing Mid-Turn Speed changes. So it's just for the second half of the turn. We have 11 more hexes to move. Now, here's a neat trick. If you Sideslip in one direction, move forward, then Sideslip in the other direction, you have effectively used 3 points of movement to go forward two hexes, essentially 'slowing' us down without actually changing speed.
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Jul 17, 2015 17:08
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Oh derp, I forgot it's still the same turn. So you want me to use that slow-down trick then to keep us moving forward, but effectively slowed a bit? Can do.
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Jul 17, 2015 17:16
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