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The Snark posted:The leaders didn't really bother to lie to each other, but I continue to doubt they were inclined to be completely honest with Johnny Confederate grunts. Er, the cornerstone speech wasn't some kind of secret back-room agreement. It was a speech. It was directed at the masses and intended to move them into action and it succeeded. The Snark posted:I don't know, maybe some problems can't be solved with wholesale slaughter. I wonder, how do you feel about the Middle East? Glass it or no? nuclear weapons lack utility and I would prefer that they all be decommissioned. to answer the first question, the question of how to "solve" the middle east is largely one of logistics, I don't think you can really argue that wholesale slaughter won't be necessary.
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Jul 15, 2015 16:13
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I'm not trying to soft pedal slavery being the reason for secession, it was 100%. I am arguing that when irreconcilable differences arise, whether they be about slavery, tarrifs, gas tax or whatever, it should be the right of states to withdraw from the union that they entered of their own free will if its citizens vote to do so.
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Jul 15, 2015 16:23
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vols bitch
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Jul 15, 2015 16:26
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Dead Gay Romans posted:Guy living in Gettysburg flying the Confederate flag outside his trailer spotted. Last time i went there you'd almost think the south won the battle. there were confederate flags every goddamned where compared to union flags.
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Jul 15, 2015 16:30
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Frackie Robinson posted:I'm not trying to soft pedal slavery being the reason for secession, it was 100%. I am arguing that when irreconcilable differences arise, whether they be about slavery, tarrifs, gas tax or whatever, it should be the right of states to withdraw from the union that they entered of their own free will if its citizens vote to do so. that is so loving stupid. take a minute to think about the future of a representative republic whose constituent jurisdictions have the right to dissolve it if they don't get their way on any particular issue they deem important enough. I'm not going to explain to you why it's a bad idea, if you can't figure it out then just kill yourself tia.
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Jul 15, 2015 16:34
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Seems like a forum full of people who hate America would have more respect for the guys that came closest to taking it down.
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Jul 15, 2015 16:37
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while America is extremely ftl I'm a law student and an American soldier and neither of those parts of me are inclined to respect people who think murdering me is a legitimate way to make a political statement
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Jul 15, 2015 16:38
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Frackie Robinson posted:I'm not trying to soft pedal slavery being the reason for secession, it was 100%. I am arguing that when irreconcilable differences arise, whether they be about slavery, tarrifs, gas tax or whatever, it should be the right of states to withdraw from the union that they entered of their own free will if its citizens vote to do so. Should Billy Joe McMeth and his large extended family of the Sunny Views Trailer Park be able to secede from the state of Kentucky because they all care so deeply about their sacred institution of child marriage that it causes irreconcilable differences between them and the society they live in? Also, TacticalUrbanHomo posted:that is so loving stupid. take a minute to think about the future of a representative republic whose constituent jurisdictions have the right to dissolve it if they don't get their way on any particular issue they deem important enough. I'm not going to explain to you why it's a bad idea, if you can't figure it out then just kill yourself tia.
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Jul 15, 2015 16:41
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Ramsus posted:It was a long time ago and none of you were there. Remember, history is written by the winners
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Jul 15, 2015 16:58
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Scalding Coffee posted:History can be rewritten by those with an agenda. lol at the conspiracy theorist who doesn't think we've always been at war with Eurasia. 
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Jul 15, 2015 17:03
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The American Civil War is one of those rare cases where, because of the failure of Reconstruction, history was written by the losers
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Jul 15, 2015 17:09
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"history is written by the victors" is something only people who haven't done any serious study of history say
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Jul 15, 2015 17:17
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Frackie Robinson posted:it should be the right of states to withdraw from the union that they entered of their own free will if its citizens vote to do so Hindsight being 20/20 we really should have just let the south secede. It's not like the former confederate states really contribute anything and have been nothing but a net drag on society.
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Jul 15, 2015 17:30
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Geoj posted:Hindsight being 20/20 we really should have just let the south secede. It's not like the former confederate states really contribute anything and have been nothing but a net drag on society. Natural resources, electricity, agriculture, soldiers.
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Jul 15, 2015 17:44
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Dead Gay Romans posted:What is with all the loving morons who were born and raised in a Union state flying loving Confederate flags and pretending it has something to do with their "heritage"? They let people born in the south move into northern states, now. Just FYI.
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Jul 15, 2015 17:47
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burritolingus posted:Natural resources, electricity, agriculture, soldiers. All of which can be obtained elsewhere. gently caress the south.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:33
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Geoj posted:All of which can be obtained elsewhere. gently caress the south. Yeah I mean if you're down with invading other countries sure.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:37
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Knight posted:The American Civil War is one of those rare cases where, because of the failure of Reconstruction, history was written by the losers nah it was still written by the winners the military campaign was only the first phase
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Jul 15, 2015 18:50
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burritolingus posted:Yeah I mean if you're down with invading other countries sure. Hasn't this effectively been our foreign policy since the post war era anyways?
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Jul 15, 2015 19:05
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burritolingus posted:Anyone flying the Confederate flag is a loving idiot.
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Jul 15, 2015 19:34
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I'm in WI and I saw a guy in a huge pickup with a confederate flag on the left rear, and an US flag on the right rear roar on past me. So which country are you for, I don't get it.
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Jul 15, 2015 19:58
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comes along bort posted:nah it was still written by the winners Don't forget about revisionist, white guilt ridden academics. They write a lot of books and poo poo no one will ever read.
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Jul 15, 2015 21:04
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burritolingus posted:Anyone flying the Confederate flag is a loving idiot.
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Jul 15, 2015 21:15
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:the worst thing about jackson's presidency was richard lawrence's weapon maintenance Jackson still would have beaten him half to death with his cane, you piece of poo poo.
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Jul 15, 2015 21:25
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rakovsky maybe posted:Posters Who Capitalize Every Word are loving Idiots genius!
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Jul 15, 2015 21:28
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some people really like the dukes of hazard 
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Jul 15, 2015 21:30
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GORDON posted:They let people born in the south move into northern states, now. Just FYI. Dead Gay Romans posted:What is with all the loving morons who were born and raised in a Union state flying loving Confederate flags and pretending it has something to do with their "heritage"? What's it like being illiterate?
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Jul 15, 2015 22:22
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:"history is written by the victors" is something only people who haven't done any serious study of history say It's also what every Nazi apologists say.
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Jul 15, 2015 23:24
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:because slavery was not the issue in the revolutionary war. if the american colonies had rebelled against the british specifically because they were afraid they'd have to give up slavery otherwise, then I would probably feel the same way about the founding fathers as I do, say, andrew jackson. True but does it not make a mockery of the causus belli of the Americans? Frackie Robinson posted:I'm not trying to soft pedal slavery being the reason for secession, it was 100%. I am arguing that when irreconcilable differences arise, whether they be about slavery, tarrifs, gas tax or whatever, it should be the right of states to withdraw from the union that they entered of their own free will if its citizens vote to do so. gently caress that poo poo. Human rights trump states rights and abuses of human rights are always a legitimate reason to start a war whether with a secessionist state or another sovereign government (at least in principal, most of the time the ensuing snafu makes it not worth it). TacticalUrbanHomo posted:"history is written by the victors" is something only people who haven't done any serious study of history say I haven't done any serious study of history but is there not some truth to it?
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Jul 16, 2015 00:35
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OP is a flag.
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Jul 17, 2015 09:51
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Surprisingly haven't seen any more than the normal amount of confederate flags here in Vermont. I live in the lovely, heroin-addled, redneck part of Vermont, too, not the nice liberal part.
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Jul 17, 2015 10:03
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Benny Harvey posted:True but does it not make a mockery of the causus belli of the Americans? It does not, not unless you're fond of presentism. In the late 1700's the enlightenment was not a foregone conclusion, it was a current event. A hundred years later, most developed countries had already banned slavery. It seemed inevitable that the United States would as well. The confederacy was created specifically as a backlash against this change. Benny Harvey posted:I haven't done any serious study of history but is there not some truth to it? Some, particularly in antiquity when decisively losing a war sometimes meant being literally eradicated, having your libraries burned, your leaders executed, and your people enslaved, EG Carthage. Even moreso with regard to societies that lacked or did not value literacy. There are still lots of exceptions, but antiquity is not my area of expertise. The Jews would be a good example, though. As would be the losers of a lot, but not all of, Rome's civil wars. Napoleon wrote his memoirs from exile. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf while serving a prison sentence for his first coup attempt. Lots of other Nazi leaders wrote their accounts of the war from prison. The Italian Wars, the Austrian Wars, the Wars of the Roses, the Hundred Years' War, the Thirty Years' War, the Great Northern War, the the Franco-Prussian War, and, hurr, the American Civil War, it is trivial to find accounts written by both sides of all of these conflicts.
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Jul 17, 2015 12:58
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Luvcow posted:some people really like the dukes of hazard I liked the Dukes of Hazzard when I was 6 I also liked The A-Team but I don't drive a van
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Jul 17, 2015 14:30
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FuturePastNow posted:I liked the Dukes of Hazzard when I was 6 Pinche gueros was actually how we referred to that show in my house growing up.
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Jul 17, 2015 14:48
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Frackie Robinson posted:I'm not trying to soft pedal slavery being the reason for secession, it was 100%. I am arguing that when irreconcilable differences arise, whether they be about slavery, tarrifs, gas tax or whatever, it should be the right of states to withdraw from the union that they entered of their own free will if its citizens vote to do so. This is why it is excellent to execute traitors and Andrew Johnson was one of the worst presidents in history. Also you should be imprisoned unironically
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Jul 17, 2015 14:59
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Irradiation posted:What's it like being illiterate? Your mother never cared that I couldn't read, nether should you son.
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Jul 25, 2015 02:11
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burritolingus posted:No, when your "heroic deed" is ultimately in service to probably one of the worst causes imaginable, like the enslavement of an entire race of people or genocide, whether you're doing it for those reasons or not, it really underscores your "heroic deed" and makes you sort of not a hero 'cuz you're fighting on the side of the baddies regardless of your personal reasons to do so. Obviously you have never been a soldier, because a soldier jumping on a grenade is heroic in any context, regardless of the politics of the greater conflict. Those saved soldiers didn't stop being people just because they were nazis, or french resistance members, or Swedish commandos, or anything else. Although grenading the nazis wasn't a bad thing, so, you know...it's all subjective BLARGHLE fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 05:13
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