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Omi-Polari posted:gently caress poo poo kill Yankees burn the South I live in Manassas right now, and I frequently have to spell it out for people on the phone as "M-A-N-A-S-S-A-S, like Man-rear end-as". But for real though, we can't erase the fact that this war happened, and it is entirely to our detriment as a nation to whitewash the whole thing. Take the flags down in state capitals, because it never should have been there in the first place; but leave it alone at memorials and battlefields, because that's exactly where it belongs.
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Jul 15, 2015 06:17
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ANIME IS BLOOD posted:do the memorials have to be sitting right outside the black part of town after getting moved there during the Civil Rights era is a perfectly cogent question, however No, the memorials should be sitting by actually memorial-worthy sites, like battlefields, or graves, or whatever. Come to Northern Virginia, and walk around the Manassas Battlefield Park. Pretty much all of the civil war was fought in VA, with a big chunk of that being fought in Northern Virginia, two major battles of which were fought in and around Manassas (one won by the south, the other technically a union retreat rather than a confederate victory), and we still have a thorough and objective account of the whole war in all of our state and city run parks. Take a cruise down route 11, and you'll find a lot of the less glorious stories of the war on state sponsored placards and markers, and the occasional statue. Hell, I just recently found one within Manassas about a half assed Confederate fort- Hooe Fort. They put a bunch of fake cannons on a hill and hoped nobody would notice, but the Union army totally did (after a while), although it didn't make much difference either way. Stories like that were all over the war- like Fort Macon in North Carolina. It was a seemingly indefensible position that was really ingeniously defended; and then was basically defeated by itself, and also what was at the time some of the biggest artillery ever deployed. It's a very interesting place to visit, and also has beaches, so it's pretty awesome. Nobody wants to talk about that though. It's all about how some loving retard shot up some loving church because they were black or some poo poo. Okay, whatever, that's a lovely reason to shoot up a place, if you're concerned with racism, and not a mass murderer. The battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia didn't force him to shoot anybody, and it's a stupid thing to focus on, and it detracts from the real issues of poverty and race relations in the south. Yeah, we have a ton of roads named after Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee, and Stonewall Jackson, and occasionally James Longstreet, but they were all extremely influential Virginians(with the exception of Davis) before the war. It was a big deal that these West Point educated officers effectively defected to run the Army of Northern Virginia, but to call them traitors and label their battle flag a terrorist symbol seems a bit retarded. Disclaimer- I don't endorse or condone slavery, and my family was either too poor to own slaves, or was too busy being in Europe at the time of the Civil War. BLARGHLE fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Jul 15, 2015 |
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Jul 15, 2015 07:50
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burritolingus posted:I don't get it because you can just say the truth (that the Confederacy fought for slavery) and they're still bad guys. You don't need to resort to name-calling with "traitors" or "terrorists" (which you could also call the colonials who fought for America in the Revolutionary War). It's enough that they fought to enslave other human beings. I never said that the Confederates were the good guys. BLARGHLE fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Jul 15, 2015 |
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Jul 15, 2015 07:57
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The Snark posted:True, but how far do you have to move them before you either see the proposal to remove them, or just accept that as an inert memorial incapable of actually so much as yelling slurs at people- perhaps it's best to just get over their existence and remember history is first and foremost a catalog of human failing short of causing extinction. For us. All of us, anyway. I know a lot of this is sarcasm, but god drat, this strawman argument makes me wish I could give a lecture on American history.
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Jul 15, 2015 08:18
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burritolingus posted:Go for it. Too drunk to do it justice, and blah blah blah, it's 3:30 in the morning, and everything I have typed up has ended up sounding retarded. I am going to bed, but everyone is welcome to read more at this loving page, assholes.
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Jul 15, 2015 08:36
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burritolingus posted:No, when your "heroic deed" is ultimately in service to probably one of the worst causes imaginable, like the enslavement of an entire race of people or genocide, whether you're doing it for those reasons or not, it really underscores your "heroic deed" and makes you sort of not a hero 'cuz you're fighting on the side of the baddies regardless of your personal reasons to do so. Obviously you have never been a soldier, because a soldier jumping on a grenade is heroic in any context, regardless of the politics of the greater conflict. Those saved soldiers didn't stop being people just because they were nazis, or french resistance members, or Swedish commandos, or anything else. Although grenading the nazis wasn't a bad thing, so, you know...it's all subjective BLARGHLE fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 05:13
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