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spud posted:Not that I really wish this was the case, but it would be funny to see some of the Tv Licence ones enforced like the US Police enforce refusing to hand over your driving licence, i.e. smashing your poo poo up. Didn't they have trucks that listen in on what TVs are turned on and could call bullshit on them? poo poo, it might be even easier these days with internet-connected TVs. happyhippy posted:Still waiting for the day for a Judge in a Sovereign Citizen case to just ask: The better way would be to codify and restrict rights to American citizens instead of granting everyone them the moment they enter the country. The only reason the "sovereign citizen" bullshit has power is because the Constitution declares unalienable rights, not rights granted by the government (nevermind that everyone surrenders some of the rights to provide enforcement of the laws to protect them). It would be real easy to just turn SovCits into second-class citizens like Mexican immigrants if we could do that. Young Freud fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Jul 17, 2015 |
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Jul 17, 2015 06:39
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acejackson42 posted:Funny how all this ridiculous poo poo really seemed to take off right around early 2009. Like, that's when it got reaaalll popular in some circles. No idea why. If you think that Obama was the reason this happened, I got news for you, this poo poo has been around since the Clintons, with Vince Foster and the "Clinton death list", Ruby Ridge (although that was under Papa Bush) and the Waco siege. Alex Jones pretty much got his start with the fallout from Waco. And then, maybe even before that, with the John Birch Society being the radical right fringe thinking fluoride in the water supply was a Communist plot.
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Jul 17, 2015 08:15
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CJacobs posted:Also, sovereign citizens are a worldwide epidemic of people. There's an Australian guy in like the first video posted in this thread. It's got very little to do with government and politics and very much to do with a human being's innate want to live outside the system. The vast, overwhelming majority of people ignore that want because they feel on the inside that they are better off living under the rules that are imposed on them. it's not my place to judge whether they actually are or not. Sovereign citizens are broken people who are unable to ignore that want. They can rave and rant about how it's really about exercising their freedoms all they want, it will get them nowhere because it's not true. Even if your rights are impeded upon in America by police or other people of authority, other countries may have laws preventing such impediment and sovereign citizens still exist there, not because they want to live a life of awareness for the law, but because they don't think they should be bound by it because they're loving stupid. I think the best and easiest way to describe the motivation is that they want all the benefits and advantages of living in a society without having the responsibilities or wanting to make the sacrifices that keep things running. It's like what someone brought up about the guy claiming "civil disobedience" without realizing that it means you can be arrested for disobedience.
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Jul 17, 2015 08:36
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Flesh Forge posted:With every single case I have ever seen of these dudes, there is always a core of venal pragmatism: The big one now is collecting water. I'm not even talking about Tom Selleck's recent hassle with his farm, but there was a case that was banded about social media where a guy was sentenced to a month in county jail for "collecting rainwater". But, if you read more into it, he wasn't just collecting rainwater, he was damming up public streams and creating tanks that would fill 20 Olympic-sized swimming pools. Reservoirs, mind you, that had boat docks and were seeded with trout for his personal fishing. That's essentially what I was brought up in my last post, it's basic Rousseau's Social Contract: you have might these unalienable rights, but laws and organizations must be put in place to protect you and others from individuals who would use their rights to step all over your own. Of course, Sov Cits have a large misunderstanding of this, especially the idea of rejecting the laws and government to become free men again, that the people have to consent to governed (hence the "I do not consent" whenever the police enforces those laws). However, living in the United States or an industrialized democratic country, you give your tacit consent by living here and staying within it's boundaries. IronClaymore posted:I would love to see that applied to someone trying to wander into a B-2 bomber base or something. Actually I bet the guards would be super polite. And gentle. Polite and gentle and firm. Ehh, that's probably the most fun they have. Guarding some boondoggle base in the middle of the desert, you'd be glad to have a chat with some nut who just wanders up in the middle of the night wanting to get in and look at poo poo. The Venn diagram of Area 51 campers and Freeman of the Land is pretty much a circle.
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Jul 17, 2015 19:58
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LeoMarr posted:"Look i get it you have the right to remain silent, can I just see your ID and Reg so I can go home" Of course, a sovereign citizen would probably give wrong address, which means they're never notified of the ticket, which goes warrant and now they're truly, truly hosed.
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Jul 18, 2015 06:45
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Onkel Hedwig posted:There's a bunch of people like that in Germany too, but it is mostly disgruntled older people. America really has the best sovcits. Are you talking about autonoms? I remember that they were huge during the '80s. They were pretty much anti-authoritarian Marxists who squatted whole blocks, pretty much invented the term "Black Bloc" and took over a couple neighborhoods in Berlin after throwing out the police. I can see why they're disgruntled now, because Kreuzberg has become somewhat gentrified.
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Jul 18, 2015 17:25
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Tupperwarez posted:A lot of sovereign citizens sound like cargo-cult lawyers to me. It really is. If you hear them talk about lawyers, usually derisively, they view them as if they were some sort of nobility. Darkhold posted:By separating their corporate self from their flesh and blood self. Flesh and blood me just happens to be living here. Go bug the corporate me for payment. Oh and corporate me is owed some money by the government because they took out a savings bond on my life when I was 'berthed' so you can collect against that. The thing is that you can incorporate yourself or put all your financial dealings through a corporation so when the tax man comes, you technically don't have assets for them to collect, it's all the corporations. Or the corporation was operating at a loss, so no taxes this year from both me and my paper me. This was the gist behind John Kerry bringing up that George W. Bush was a timber concern during the 2004 election debates. The difference is that it takes money and lawyers to do this. It doesn't matter if you're a Moor or a Freeman of the Land, you don't have the proper notorized filing and paid fees to claim your a corporation or the legal acumen of James Bakker behind you.
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Jul 18, 2015 21:41
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