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I thought the narrative point of sidelining Hope was that she as a character was actually entirely more competent then Scott and would've caused less drama? I know that could've been written around, but I like the idea that Hope was in every way more suited for the job, but Scott got picked because he's expendable.
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Jul 17, 2015 16:06
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Dexo posted:Curious, is it possible to kill any female character in a movie/series without it being considered fridging. Didn't you get the memo? Everything is #problematic
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Jul 17, 2015 16:11
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Baron Bifford posted:I kinda groaned at the scene where Cross kills one of his execs for some business reason that I forget, which struck me as a cheap way to mark him out as the villain. Aside from this, it is only Cross' attempt to sell the tech to Hydra that truly makes him the bad guy. Otherwise he is just an arms manufacturer trying to sell a new weapon. I was actually rooting against Hank and Scott up to that point, because Hank just comes across as a big Luddite. By destroying Pym Technologies he ruins a lot of people's livelihoods, all to suppress a technology that might get rediscovered anyway at some point in the future. ...did you miss him TRYING TO KILL A CHILD?
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Jul 17, 2015 17:30
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weekly font posted:Didn't you get the memo? Everything is #problematic Whoever coined the modern usage of that term needs to die in a grease fire because it's such weasel-y bullshit. If you think something is racist or sexist or whatever, which plenty of stuff is, just loving say it. And get those kids off my loving lawn! 
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Jul 17, 2015 18:22
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Well, the movie establishes that Hank was sent all over the world to fight the soviets/commies. He lost his wife to a nuclear weapon. So of course he would be against proliferation of a new, more destructive type of science. I agree that Cross seems a bit forced as the villain, but the actor did make it seem that he always had this kind of sinister undercurrent to him.
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Jul 17, 2015 21:01
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Nobody ever questioned why that one exec went into the bathroom and never returned?
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Jul 17, 2015 21:10
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This movie was a lot of fun. It had good humor for a Marvel film. The bits where they let it have it's own style really did a good job capturing some elements of 60s Marvel. Specifically the Antman shrinking effect and when he went subatomic. Easily one of my favorite Marvel movies.
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Jul 17, 2015 21:33
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What the gently caress is "fridging"? I have never heard of it before this thread.
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Jul 17, 2015 21:35
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Ramadu posted:What the gently caress is "fridging"? I have never heard of it before this thread. Killing a female supporting character so as to effect the main (usually male) lead. It derives from: 
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Jul 17, 2015 21:43
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Ramadu posted:What the gently caress is "fridging"? I have never heard of it before this thread. It's a term that came about by a woman comics author(forget her name), where she talks about how unceremoniously women are treated in comics(heroes and normals alike) . Fridging is a reference to a Green Lantern story where the Villian killed Kyle Rainer's Girlfriend and literally put her in a freezer. It's a very useful thought experiment that writers should very much think about when writing, killing, maiming or having female characters getting raped. But that doesn't mean that you should never ever kill off a female or have a character die as a motivating factor. Dexo fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Jul 17, 2015 |
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Jul 17, 2015 21:50
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Ant-Man also does not have a case of fridging in it. It's a term people misuse all the time now.
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Jul 17, 2015 21:55
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duz posted:What was it, I'm only willing to wait for mid credits scenes. The post credit scene is Cap and Wing Guy standing around in some abandoned factory while Bucky (I think) has his metal arm in a vice. The two kvetch about something or other (I've forgotten), and then Wing Guy says 'I know a guy', smash to black, and the words ANT MAN WILL RETURN. Completely immemorial.
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Jul 17, 2015 23:02
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Baron Bifford posted:I was actually sympathizing with the villain at first, because he had a point that Pym was trying to thwart the inevitability of human scientific progress. If Pym refuses to share his discovery, somebody else will discover it (and take the credit). Then we see Cross trying to sell his weapon to Hydra, which makes little sense when he could make tons of money selling his invention through legitimate channels. The 'legitimate channels' are always going to be HYDRA eventually because capitalism. I honestly thought that was almost text not subtext. Broad thoughts is that the movie is fine, it's a competent entry but not quite as fun as Cap 2 or Guardians.
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Jul 17, 2015 23:17
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Saw this this morning and loved it. There was some rough spots though specifically the whole Michael Douglas and his daughter scenes, and some of the humour just didn't hit it was to expected. Serious Serious Serious JOKE. Overall excellent small scale Marvel Film and come the gently caress on The huge final fight took place in a little girls bedroom and they made it awesome. Paul Rudd fell a little flat otherwise excellent excellent film.
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Jul 17, 2015 23:20
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Out of all the superhero heist movies we've had, this is clearly the best. And does this count as the first appearance of Spider-Man in the Marvel-verse? "we've got ones who jump, ones who swing, ones who climb..."
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Jul 18, 2015 00:42
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Bruceski posted:Out of all the superhero heist movies we've had, this is clearly the best. If you consider an oblique reference that may or may not even actually be about that character, without any sort of psychical presence to be an "appearance"...then sure.
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Jul 18, 2015 00:47
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It seems to imply that the MCU Spiderman is already actively Spidermanning which would mean that the next Spiderman movie will not be yet another origin story.
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Jul 18, 2015 01:07
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I like it okay. Felt it worked better in writing than in motion, it's not the most interestingly directed of the Marvel films. Some of the action scenes are fun because the concept is fun, but it's pretty stock standard as far as filming action goes. Pretty sure a third of this movie is "Evangeline Lilly reacts to people telling her things." There's one small scene I really liked, where the building is rigged to explode, and Michael Peņa is trying to escape, but he remembers a guard he knocked unconscious earlier and turns back for him. It's a nice "human life matters" moment that automatically makes this movie better than Man of Steel.
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Jul 18, 2015 01:08
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poparena posted:There's one small scene I really liked, where the building is rigged to explode, and Michael Peņa is trying to escape, but he remembers a guard he knocked unconscious earlier and turns back for him. It's a nice "human life matters" moment that automatically makes this movie better than Man of Steel. Shame about the other guy, really.
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Jul 18, 2015 01:09
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Bruceski posted:Shame about the other guy, really. As established in Age of Ultron, as long as you show some people being saved it doesn't matter if you cause certain death and destruction elsewhere.
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Jul 18, 2015 01:15
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To be fair Cross had been driven insane by that point , I mean I thought Cross was very well played and the actor who's name I forget just did a excellent job on one hand showing crazy and then longing to be accepted and then the scene where has literal tears in his eyes in the vault. He was insane by the point Scott had to kill him because he knew that was the only way to stop him in the suit he wasn't going to stop until he killed his daughter. At least this films villian had at least motivation.
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Jul 18, 2015 01:30
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This movie was cute and funny hth. There's one really bizarre exchange that makes me wonder if the creators have some intimate knowledge on the difference between mice and lambs or if they assume small = stupid or something anyway that was weird. edit: I guess lambs are cuter.
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Jul 18, 2015 01:33
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There's all kinds of messed up biblical connotations to the Lamb, because Scott Lang is a sacrificial lamb that may be sacrificed for the greater good. White Lambs are associated with purity and innocence, he's symbolically sacrificing his innocence and purity .. yada yada yada. Strangely this film felt more like a Fantastic Four movie than the last couple of Fantastic Four movies, dunno why I got that vibe but I did.
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Jul 18, 2015 01:35
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Hollismason posted:To be fair Cross had been driven insane by that point , I mean I thought Cross was very well played and the actor who's name I forget just did a excellent job on one hand showing crazy and then longing to be accepted and then the scene where has literal tears in his eyes in the vault. He was insane by the point Scott had to kill him because he knew that was the only way to stop him in the suit he wasn't going to stop until he killed his daughter.
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Jul 18, 2015 01:40
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BrianWilly posted:Can someone actually explain his motivation to me? It seems like he was just mad at Daddy Pym (who, again I stress, was his boss and not his father in any meaningful way depicted) for some vague betrayal (that was also never actually shown) and then Evil Midichlorians finished the job by just making him a full blown lunatic. Yeah, I must be among the minority of people who felt that Cross is one of the weakest Marvel villains thus far along with Sam Rockwell (and you have no idea how much it kills me to say that Sam Rockwell has a weak performance in something). Seriously, his motivation seems to waffle between "ME WANT MONEY!" and "MY MENTOR IS A BIG STUPID POOPY HEAD AND I HATE HIM!!" And maybe this is a dumb gripe but the whole timing of him putting on the Yellowjacket suit felt really off. He was out of sight for maybe 10 seconds and then BOOM!
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Jul 18, 2015 02:01
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Ensign_Ricky posted:And maybe this is a dumb gripe but the whole timing of him putting on the Yellowjacket suit felt really off. He was out of sight for maybe 10 seconds and then BOOM! Earlier in the movie it was established that it only takes 10 seconds. Somehow.
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Jul 18, 2015 02:26
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Ensign_Ricky posted:And maybe this is a dumb gripe but the whole timing of him putting on the Yellowjacket suit felt really off. He was out of sight for maybe 10 seconds and then BOOM! I'm not sure if its still A Thing, but I have a stack of circa-80s/90s comics (when my parents got me one of those "Big Stack Of Random Comics for 25 bucks" things for my birthday) that literally has Our Hero in normal clothes in panel A, but decked out in his outfit in panel B, which is supposedly seconds between each other.
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Jul 18, 2015 02:39
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While I don't disagree, I'm really getting tired of this criticism.
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Jul 18, 2015 02:41
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BrianWilly posted:Can someone actually explain his motivation to me? It seems like he was just mad at Daddy Pym (who, again I stress, was his boss and not his father in any meaningful way depicted) for some vague betrayal (that was also never actually shown) and then Evil Midichlorians finished the job by just making him a full blown lunatic. Cross is the mad scientist protege of mad scientist Dr. Pym. Cross takes the mentorship far too seriously and wants to both gain Pym's approval and surpass him. Pym realizes that Cross is a narcissist obsessed with being a success and hides Pym particles/Antman from him, causing further resentment and obsession. loving with shrinking tech chemically pushes him over the edge and he begins to take extreme relish in trolling the poo poo out of Dr. Pym in order to get any sort of affirmation out of the guy, right up to selling the tech to HYDRA out of pure spite.
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Jul 18, 2015 02:46
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MajorB posted:Cross is the mad scientist protege of mad scientist Dr. Pym. Cross takes the mentorship far too seriously and wants to both gain Pym's approval and surpass him. Pym realizes that Cross is a narcissist obsessed with being a success and hides Pym particles/Antman from him, causing further resentment and obsession. loving with shrinking tech chemically pushes him over the edge and he begins to take extreme relish in trolling the poo poo out of Dr. Pym in order to get any sort of affirmation out of the guy, right up to selling the tech to HYDRA out of pure spite. Basically this. He started as Hanks protege someone Hank turned to obviously after the death of his wife, he finds out that oh poo poo his mentor has been lying to him the whole time, he starts messing around with the Particles which begin to make him mentally unstable which by the way it's pretty heavily implied that Hank suffered some sort of issue with the particles as well. Seriously he learned that shrinking without the helmet drove you insane , so wonder who saved him? Duh, Janet. So Cross starts experimenting with the particles, but it starts messing with his head to push anger into hatred , then he finally invents it and the has completely slipped into madness. Also the first time we see the Yellowjacket suit it's shrinked down, the first time we see the Ant Man suit its full sized. Which implies you shrink then put on the Yellowjacket suit but sense unshield exposure to the Pym PArticles drives you insane it drives you mad because Cross isn't as smart as Hank.
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Jul 18, 2015 03:01
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Just got back from the theater and I loved the movie. It' was funny (to a surprising degree), the action was great and given that there are probably only a very small few ways to do an Ant-Man movie, this did the trick. I liked Paul Rudd as Lang. I thought Michael Douglas fit the role of Pym very well as how I imagine a real life Hank Pym would be. I really can't think of anything I disliked about it, and I'd put it in my top 3-4 MCU films to date. Plus, I love heist movies, and that combined with the fact that I've always actually liked the Ant-Man as a character was a good marriage of ideas for me. Although I am definitely going to get back to the theater to see it again just because I enjoyed the way they played with scale so much.
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Jul 18, 2015 03:10
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I liked the movie a lot but Michael Peņa absolutely stole the show for me. Every scene he was in was loving great.
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Jul 18, 2015 03:20
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Doronin posted:I really can't think of anything I disliked about it, and I'd put it in my top 3-4 MCU films to date. Plus, I love heist movies, and that combined with the fact that I've always actually liked the Ant-Man as a character was a good marriage of ideas for me. I love heist movies, the analogy I've decided to go with is "you know how the modern Italian Job is half heist half Mini Cooper commercial? This one's half heist half super-powered punching." It's not a repeat viewing movie for me though. I liked it well enough, but something didn't quite click for me.
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Jul 18, 2015 03:35
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Acquilae posted:The action scenes to me were the highlight of the film; the back and forth transitions between perspectives during a fight scene and change in scale with the audio (especially in the final fight scene) was done tremendously well.
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Jul 18, 2015 03:37
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I felt like the Darren Cross character was made to be played by John Malkovich.
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Jul 18, 2015 03:45
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The one movie that is totally going to be completely awful and bomb hard, bankrupt Marvel, end superhero movies forever, and single-handedly return us to the golden age of mature and complicated films that was the 70s: - - - -??? Sorry, writers of lovely clickbait articles and bitter internet film snobs, Ant-Man ruled and everybody I saw it with loved it. If anything a movie like Ant-Man being so good in spite of the behind-the-scenes drama and rushed production is proof that superheroes as a concept are so flexible and audiences are so open-minded and willing that it's going to stick around for a long, long time.
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Jul 18, 2015 04:06
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therealjon_ posted:I felt like the Darren Cross character was made to be played by John Malkovich. Holy poo poo Malkovitch would've been loving amazing. Also, I have to give credit where credit is due. Ant-Man made me feel bad for an insect in a way I haven't since Honey I Shrunk the Kids.
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Jul 18, 2015 04:23
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This movie was great. Luis is the best. Anthony is the best. Cassie is one of the few kids in movies I haven't actively despised the whole time. So many great moments: "It's not a keychain", Thomas the Tank Engine, giant ant pet, FALCON!!!!  , we're backin' up. we're backin it up. Luis going back for the poor bullet-ant'd guard. Actually everything with Luis.
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Jul 18, 2015 04:27
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"It's really important to me that Cap doesn't find out about this"  Overall, I found that the movie was fantastic and would definitely watch it again
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Jul 18, 2015 04:34
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Kerrrrrrr posted:"It's not a keychain", You know, with the emphasis on the keychain in multiple scenes, showing it off, I had a feeling what was gonna happen, but it was still loving awesome.
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Jul 18, 2015 04:36
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