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Hot drat, a couple lucky breaks in research can lead to some outright broken designs early on. I have a 36kt BB under construction with four centerline triple 14-inch turrets and 14-inch belt armor under construction in 1909. With no torpedo protection  Also I just realized I could play this game while listening to the Sunless Sea soundtrack. This weekend is gonna be awesome.
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Jul 17, 2015 17:27
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Lets Rule the Waves goons!
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Jul 17, 2015 17:44
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I'm not entirely sure that the superstructure has no effect. I've definitely gotten hits on my ships that hit the superstructure and kill the command crew.
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Jul 17, 2015 18:03
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Ok, I should clarify, (I'm pretty sure) the cosmetic design of your superstructure has no effect. Even if you don't draw it, all ships still have superstructures that can, and will, get blown to bits by enemy shelling.
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Jul 17, 2015 18:08
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Obstacle2 posted:I'm not entirely sure that the superstructure has no effect. That's your superstructure armor, the drawings you make have no effect as far as I can tell.
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Jul 17, 2015 18:11
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I assume when a ship has a little o next to it's date, that means it's obsolete? Should I scrap them all at once, or keep them around for coastal patrol, or what?
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Jul 17, 2015 19:44
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warhammer651 posted:I assume when a ship has a little o next to it's date, that means it's obsolete?
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Jul 17, 2015 19:46
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I mean in general, not specifics. In my current game there's a couple B's, half a dozen CA's and CL's and a significant quantity of DDs
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Jul 17, 2015 19:49
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warhammer651 posted:I mean in general, not specifics. In my current game there's a couple B's, half a dozen CA's and CL's and a significant quantity of DDs
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Jul 17, 2015 19:54
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I feel like at a certain point your obsolete dreadnoughts are more of a vp liability than an asset unless your destroyer screen is on point.
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Jul 17, 2015 20:01
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warhammer651 posted:I assume when a ship has a little o next to it's date, that means it's obsolete? Scrapping them is an option, it'd get you a bit of money back. Alternatively you could mothball them or put them in a reserve fleet if they're still somewhat useful. A third option is to see what kind of potential they have for a modernization rebuild. Right click the ship's name in the list and select "Open Ship Design for rebuild". You can't modify a ship's armor or displacement, but you can replace the machinery with more modern engines (reducing weight or improving speed), improve fire control systems, add anti-torpedo bulges (though this will reduce speed), rebuild the secondary/tertiary armament significantly if the guns are 6" or less (but larger ones you can still remove guns to free up weight), and modify the main turrets within certain heavy restrictions (generally swapping double or triple turrets of a smaller caliber for less guns of a higher caliber) quote:Guns can be changed to more modern versions of the same calibre. Triple turrets can be changed to double turrets with larger guns. Double turrets can be changed to single turrets or vice versa if the calibres are compatible. Compatible calibres are It may not work, but if your technology has advanced far enough there is a chance you might be able to rebuild those outdated ships into something more useful. It may not be worth the (potentially significant) cost of the rebuild however. But in games where restriction treaties are present, rebuilds can be vitally important for modernizing an overweight grandfathered Battleship or Dreadnought that is important because of its sheer size. Maybe you can take those older Armored Cruisers, drop in some faster engines, reduce the secondary/tertiary armament, maybe swap those older main guns for new ones and see if you can produce some kind of successful raider cruiser. Rebuilds are faster than building something from scratch too (the majority of the ship is already finished afterall) so that is a point in its favor. It definitely gets expensive though, after my war with Austria I considered updating my five surviving Garibaldi class cruisers with modern fire control, as well as the two original battleships I had left (  Napoli), but the cruisers alone would cost 850k each to upgrade from Central Rangefinders to full Central Firing Control. And that is just a minor rebuild of fire control only, not worth it on five year old ships.
Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jul 17, 2015 |
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Jul 17, 2015 20:03
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My main mistakes in RTW are scrapping ships. Don't scrap ever. Mothball!
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Jul 17, 2015 20:07
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warhammer651 posted:I mean in general, not specifics. In my current game there's a couple B's, half a dozen CA's and CL's and a significant quantity of DDs If they're valuable (your original line of dreadnoughts come 1910-14) you should probably rebuild them. This lets you upgrade the guns, engines and fire control. The main disadvantage to being obsolete is your hardware is falling apart so you'll get Obsolete BB's Obsolete engines are malfunctioning and such messages during combat. If they're useless garbage like B or old CAs they'd be way too expensive to rebuild I would just mothball them and send them to the colonies during a war.
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Jul 17, 2015 20:20
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I think I've been in 1 alliance ever in 4 games, got into a war but I never saw the allied ships, just an event box that gave som VP for them doing stuff. Bigger alliances with actual fleets appearing for the battles and AI vs AI wars would be a pretty sweet addition. Especially if you could jump in or sell ships to either side.
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Jul 17, 2015 20:26
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Grey Hunter posted:Stealing for the LP banner Really like this image, so I dug up a higher-quality version from the Library of Congress site. 
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Jul 17, 2015 20:44
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Baloogan posted:I've had a pile of fun with this; I'd highly recommend it! Hey thanks a bunch for the patch, really neat.
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Jul 17, 2015 21:46
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Well. I don't know if the game bugged out, or if I wasted lottery luck on a video game. Playing as the CSA during a coastal raid defense mission, we just sunk a British BC, BB, and CL all with flash fires from striking a turret. I'd never even seen that happen until this battle. Combined with the rest of the war, the poor British have 0 BB or BCs left. This game is absurdly addictive.
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Jul 17, 2015 22:44
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If I'm interested in tactics in the North Sea in historical WW1, which game should get? Rule the Waves is tempting, but it sounds like it doesn't have any scenarios, just the campaign. And if I get Steam and Iron, and want to try out scouting tactics rather than start already in contact with the enemy, do I need the expansion?
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Jul 17, 2015 22:47
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So what are the belt extended and deck extended armors for?
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Jul 17, 2015 22:49
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ganthony posted:Well. I don't know if the game bugged out, or if I wasted lottery luck on a video game. Playing as the CSA during a coastal raid defense mission, we just sunk a British BC, BB, and CL all with flash fires from striking a turret. I'd never even seen that happen until this battle. Combined with the rest of the war, the poor British have 0 BB or BCs left. This game is absurdly addictive. The Brits have the national characteristic of hidden flaws in their shipbuilding, so if it happens to anyone it's them. jb7 posted:So what are the belt extended and deck extended armors for? Eventually, people figured out they did precisely gently caress all, hence the all-or-nothing concept. You can kind of cheat before you research AON by just setting BE and DE to zero and reaping the benefits.
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Jul 17, 2015 23:07
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gently caress I'm bad at this game. I may as well just not put torpedo tubes on my destroyers because they just die before they get to shoot them.
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Jul 17, 2015 23:24
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jb7 posted:So what are the belt extended and deck extended armors for? The main belt and deck armor of your ship only covers the central part of the vessel, where the most important and vulnerable things are, the ship's steam boilers, engines, and ammo magazines. The extension areas cover less vital (but potentially still important) areas such as the driver shafts to the propellers or the rudders. However eventually many navies realized the benefits of extended armor protection didn't justify the significant weight increases and adopted an "All or nothing" armor approach, America was especially fond of it while other nations took a while to warm up to it, IIRC. At first I was just gonna answer this, but then I ended up overthinking and wrote all this  to go further into designing armor protection in RtW. However, I am no expert at Rule the Waves, nor Naval Warship design in general. I would not be surprised if I'm wrong about some of this, if I am, please, someone correct me. The Belt armor is vitally important because it protects your ship's hole from getting holes put in it at the water line, this is a very bad thing for obvious reasons. It lets water in, and those shells might break something important like your engines, or hit your ammo magazines and KABOOM. Deck armor becomes increasingly important as the ranges involved in naval warfare increase. As big guns begin shooting further and further, they start producing what is called "plunging fire" where the shells are hitting you from "above" more than the sides. Weak deck armor means they could just punch right through the top of the ship and break something important, like your engines, or hit your ammo magazines and KABOOM. Turret Armor is important because it prevents your turrets from breaking. Having turrets destroyed sucks for the obvious reason of losing a lot of firepower, however in addition there is a chance a penetrating turret hit might cause a flash fire that reaches your ammo magazines and KABOOM. Turret top armor is imoprtant for the same reason deck armor is important, with long range gunfire you'll be taking hits more from above than the side. Conning Tower armor is important because that is where most of the important people, like the Captain, are on the ship and a hit there could slaughter most of the command crew, drastically reducing your ship's ability to coordinate effectively within itself and with other vessels. Secondary/Tertiary armor is important for the same reason as main turrets, however it is less important than that regard, especially when you switch to Dreadnought/Battlecruiser ships with more uniform gun schemes. I don't think a hit to secondary/tertiary guns can result in an ammo magazine explosion. As for the three armor schemes. A Protected Cruiser Armor scheme is like this:  Its just a layer of armor covering the core of the ship, the most important parts (engines, boilers, ammo magazines). I presume the "belt" in this case is the sides/thickest part of the armor. Anyways, its advantage is it is the lightest of the thee armor schemes, but it provides the least amount of protection, especially against flotation damage since the sides of the ship are not protected. The Sloped Deck Armor scheme looks something like this:   This has a thick armor belt on the side of the hull and layered decks of top armor covering the vital areas. As you can see this means shots penetrating the side belt will also probably strike the deck armor covering vital areas. This scheme provides the greatest amount of protection, but also weighs the most. Finally there is Flat Deck on Top of Belt  Note this cutaway also includes an anti-torpedo bulge, which are separate sealed areas containing water and air meant to absorb most of the damage of torpedoes. This is a simpler version of the sloped deck technique, combing a armored belt along the ship and deck armor protecting against plunging fire while eliminating the layering aspect of the sloped deck armor. It provides a reasonable amount of protection while being lighter than the sloped deck method. This style of armor was especially popular on Battlecruisers, as they sought to minimize weight wherever possible. Of course, Battlecruisers ended up having a nasty tendency to suffer ammo magazines KABOOMS because of it. Just ask Beatty post-Jutland and the HMS Hood in WW2. Gerblederp posted:gently caress I'm bad at this game. You actually can't build destroyers without at least one torpedo tube.  Alikchi posted:Really like this image, so I dug up a higher-quality version from the Library of Congress site. Awesome, I actually google image searched for a bigger version of this and came away disappointed. I didn't even think to try the Library of Congress!. Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 18, 2015 00:04
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The way technologies are discovered can make certain quirks massively exploitable. I just made a 1903 BC with 4-12 inch main guns and 12 (!) 10 inch "secondaries" in twin wings. Can't wait to take it out for a spin.
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Jul 18, 2015 01:26
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sparkmaster posted:The way technologies are discovered can make certain quirks massively exploitable. I just made a 1903 BC with 4-12 inch main guns and 12 (!) 10 inch "secondaries" in twin wings. Can't wait to take it out for a spin. You mean something like this?  A few years ahead of schedule, but not as far fetched as you might think. [edit] Wait, an even better example, you've built a faster (presumably, since yours has been labeled a BC) Satsuma.  [edit] Wait, twin wings? You mean yours are triple turret 10"ers? Ok, that is neat. Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Jul 18, 2015 |
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Jul 18, 2015 01:31
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Sorry, mistyped. Triple double wings. As in 6 twin 10 inch turrets. My bad. I had no idea that the Satsuma was even a thing. It looks awfully close to my boat. Considering how expensive it is, I hope mine have a better career than the Japanese ship did.
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Jul 18, 2015 01:51
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How do I get my ships to use torpedoes? Two squadrons of my shiny new destroyers sailed right into the French battle line at night, but all they did was hit everything with ineffective 4" gunfire. When the French did the same thing they hit one of my legacy fleet cruisers with a torpedo and blew it up.
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Jul 18, 2015 02:44
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Two ways, and frustratingly I don't have the opportunity to grab a screenshot of them (since I'm not at war). For all ships the AI will sometimes fire torpedoes when it feels it has a good chance to hit. There is a way to order your AI controlled destroyers to make a torpedo run. First, select a division that has destroyer escorts, open up its status menu (where you can see all the ships) and there should be a little button in the lower-mid right that has three(?) little ship icons, the tool tip should read "Flotilla Attack". Click that. Your division will then signal its escorts to move out of support position and make an attack run on the enemy. This can take a few minutes for the signal to be sent, so be patient. Hopefully the AI will move in and launch torpedoes, but destroyers are often driven off by heavy firepower. However the AI is pretty spotty about launching torpedoes, especially, I'm told, early on when torpedo technology is lovely. They're also unlikely to fire torpedoes or even make a flotilla attack if friendly ships are too close to the target, so when you order a flotilla attack, move your other ships away from the target and especially make sure their are none behind the target (where the destroyers will consider them a friendly fire risk). There is a way to manually fire torpedoes though. Bring up the division status screen containing the ship(s) you wish to fire torpedoes. Next click on the name of a ship your want to use torpedoes so it is highlighted, next go down and press the "Fire torpedoes" button. This will open a window that lets you select which tube and a target. If the message says "Out of Arc" the tube can't make a shot, if it says "No Solution" that means your crew hasn't figured out the math required to aim and/or you basically have no chance of hitting. If you DO have a firing solution it'll say "LOW" or "HIGH" indicating how likely a shot is to hit. Then its just a matter of pushing the button. Be warned however, its really loving hard to hit poo poo with torpedoes, especially early ones. I fired plenty of torpedoes in my Italy game's 1904-1905 war with Austria-Hungary and never scored a single hit, even against slow mostly immobile targets. That said, getting close can improve your odds of hitting, as torpedoes (at least early on) have two settings (chosen automatically). With a long range launch, the torpedo moves slowly to maximize the distance its power source can provide. With a short range launch the torpedo moves faster since it doesn't need to travel as far. Faster torpedoes obviously are easier to hit with. Note that a ship can only fire one torpedo mount/launcher per turn (minute or so). This is the advantage of having multi-tube torpedo launchers. If the target is maneuvering at all, and the AI almost always turns away from torpedo-armed ships closing at short range, you'll have almost no chance of hitting. The advantage of this though is you can always use a torpedo run by more expendable ships to force the enemy to turn away, covering the retreat of something valuable. Rough seas (cause by high winds) also reduce a torpedoes odds of hitting significantly. Does this make sense at all? I know Baloogan's videos featured him doing manual torpedo launches plenty, let me look up and link the process. [edit] Example of manually launching a torpedo (and the AI automatically firing one). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdxldXopDSU&t=896s Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Jul 18, 2015 |
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Jul 18, 2015 02:59
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James Garfield posted:How do I get my ships to use torpedoes? Two squadrons of my shiny new destroyers sailed right into the French battle line at night, but all they did was hit everything with ineffective 4" gunfire. When the French did the same thing they hit one of my legacy fleet cruisers with a torpedo and blew it up. I've found if the AI isn't launching torpedoes I wouldn't hit with torpedoes either. Either your tech is poo poo or the seas are too rough or they can't get a solution but if they had a chance at hitting they would take it.
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Jul 18, 2015 03:09
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Speaking of controlling ships and AI actions, what mode is everyone playing on? So far I've been playing on Captain's mode, but I'm starting to wonder if maybe Rear-Admiral mode would be easier to handle. I noticed the modes weren't mentioned in the RtW manual, but they were in the Steam and Iron manual, so here is the excerpt from that: quote:Admiral's mode: The ultimate in realism. The player can only give orders to the lead divisions of each force. Other divisions can be controlled only by selecting their role. No manual targeting is allowed. If you want to experience the limitations of WW1 fleet command, this is how you should play Jutland!
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Jul 18, 2015 03:16
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Admirals mode is a lot of fun, I absolutely wouldn't want to play a fleet engagement in captain's mode.
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Jul 18, 2015 03:22
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Well, in my 1904-1905 Italy-AustroHungarian war, I typically only left the Armored Cruisers and Battleships on player control, keeping the destroyers and sometimes the light cruisers on AI mode (especially when the CLs were screening or scouting). So honestly it almost sounds like I'm nearly playing Rear Admiral mode anyways.
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Jul 18, 2015 03:25
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Thanks for the  on torpedoes, it's probably my poo poo tech since it's 1907. I guess I'll have to wait a few more years to start building torpedo dreadnoughts.
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Jul 18, 2015 03:40
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Holy crap, I just tried to buy this game. Someone need to bust into this guys house and physically drag him out of the 90's. Then maybe start a green light campaign for him, or send an email to GOG or something.
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Jul 18, 2015 03:49
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Alright, finally had a decent challenge to my 50kt fleet and, well... To be fair, it wasn't exactly an even matchup in terms of tonnage. 
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Jul 18, 2015 04:23
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So, what exactly are the requirements for each ship type? I just got ordered to make a Battleship, but I can't figure out how to design one. It either gets re-designated as a dreadnought or a heavy cruiser, even when I select Battleship-class and ask the AI to make the ship for me. I know light cruisers have to have a displacement of 8,000 or less, but I can't figure out if the same thing is happening when I'm designing my Battleship.
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Jul 18, 2015 05:08
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Astus posted:So, what exactly are the requirements for each ship type? I just got ordered to make a Battleship, but I can't figure out how to design one. It either gets re-designated as a dreadnought or a heavy cruiser, even when I select Battleship-class and ask the AI to make the ship for me. BBs are battleships, there's no reason to make a B after 1900.
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Jul 18, 2015 05:18
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uPen posted:BBs are battleships, there's no reason to make a B after 1900. BBs are dreadnoughts until like 1920 or so, aren't they? Also, I was just given 50 million to make a battleship, and I don't know if a dreadnought will still count.
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Jul 18, 2015 05:23
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uPen posted:BBs are battleships, there's no reason to make a B after 1900. Aren't you limited to B until you research three main turrets? Or is there some way to make dreadnoughts with the 1900 technology?
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Jul 18, 2015 05:27
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Astus posted:BBs are dreadnoughts until like 1920 or so, aren't they? Also, I was just given 50 million to make a battleship, and I don't know if a dreadnought will still count. When the game says battleship it means BB, BC or B as far as I can tell. James Garfield posted:Aren't you limited to B until you research three main turrets? Or is there some way to make dreadnoughts with the 1900 technology? You need to research 3 centerline, 4 centerline, 5 centerline or primary wing turrets to build BBs. I didn't say you could build BBs in 1900 just that you shouldn't build B's since it's a waste of money. Stick the money in your treasury so you have a few hundred million in 1903-6 when you hit one of those techs and then do a run of 4-6 BB's all at once.
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Jul 18, 2015 05:34
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Astus posted:So, what exactly are the requirements for each ship type? I just got ordered to make a Battleship, but I can't figure out how to design one. It either gets re-designated as a dreadnought or a heavy cruiser, even when I select Battleship-class and ask the AI to make the ship for me. The design requirements for a ship to be classified a certain thing actually change as the game proceeds and technology advances. And sometimes it can be a little odd. Here is an interesting post from the official forums. ccip posted:And by the way, the distinction between BB vs. BC vs. CA really blurs - the designation can change even if your basic design doesn't! It's basically by the tradeoff between speed vs. armament vs. armor that determines it. uPen posted:I didn't say you could build BBs in 1900 just that you shouldn't build B's since it's a waste of money. Stick the money in your treasury so you have a few hundred million in 1903-6 when you hit one of those techs and then do a run of 4-6 BB's all at once. 
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Jul 18, 2015 05:51
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