China abuses human rights activists. US also abuses human rights activists

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > China abuses human rights activists. US also abuses human rights activists

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Mandy Thompson: Dec 26, 2014; by zen death robot

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/13/china-targets-lawyers-in-new-human-rights-crackdown

quote:

China targets lawyers in new human rights crackdown
More than 100 legal professionals and activists have been questioned or detained with strong attacks in state media against those affected

More than 100 human rights lawyers and activists have been detained or questioned by Chinese police and denounced in state media as a �criminal gang� in recent days, raising fears of an unprecedented crackdown by the Chinese authorities.

According to human rights groups, a total of 106 lawyers, other staff at legal firms and human rights activists have been detained or questioned and at least three law firms have been searched. Six lawyers from the law firm Fengrui, which has handled a number of high-profile human rights cases, have been detained. Another 17 lawyers and rights activists are missing.

The detentions came as a high-profile Tibetan monk serving a 20-year sentence died in prison and as China was urged to end its two-tier passport system, which restricts freedom of movement for religious and ethnic minorities.

The crackdown began on 9 July when Wang Yu, a Fengrui lawyer, disappeared in the early morning after sending friends a text message saying that the internet connection and electricity had been cut off at her home and that people were trying to break in. Wang�s clients include practitioners of the religious group Falun Gong, which is banned in China.

The firm�s director, Zhou Shifeng, who has also been detained, had represented Zhang Miao, a Chinese journalist who worked with a German magazine to report on the Hong Kong pro-democracy protests and was released last week after nine months in detention.

, a well-known rights lawyer who represented the blind lawyer and activist Chen Guangcheng and helped victims of forced evictions, is among those who have not been heard from since being detained.

A large number of the lawyers who have been questioned had signed a public letter condemning Wang�s detention, according to the China Human Rights Lawyers Concern Group, which is based in Hong Kong.

There have been previous government crackdowns on human rights activists and lawyers, including in 2011 during calls for a democratic uprising in the wake of the Arab spring. However, analysts believe this crackdown is unprecedented in terms of its scope. Maya Wang, a researcher with Human Rights Watch, said the detention of activists and lawyers was worrying as it was not in response to �any kind of perceivable threat�.

Articles in state media have denounced the Fengrui lawyers and claimed that they illegally organised paid protests and fabricated rumours online to sway decisions in court. A long article in the People�s Daily newspaper, the mouthpiece of the Communist party, detailed how the lawyers and rights activists gain attention for sensitive cases. It accused them of sensationalising ordinary issues, turning �sensitive issues into political issues�, and not following legal principles.

Wang said this kind of public condemnation by state media was unusual, and that activism itself was being used to justify the detentions. Activism �has basically been deemed illegal by the Chinese government�, she said. �I think it is the most concerning part of the crackdown.�

William Nee, from Amnesty International, said Fengrui�s effectiveness in highlighting cases of injustice worried the government. �We�ve seen cases where public opinion seems to have been mobilised and I think they are worried because they don�t want to lose their grip on public opinion.� Protests outside courts by activists had unnerved the government, he added.

�It is something they have never put up with but especially as it looks like social protests are on the rise, strikes are on the rise, there is the potential for economic uncertainty. I think all these factors have together in the government�s mind made them want to crack down on human rights lawyers.�

The US State Department condemned the detentions and said it was concerned that the new national security law was being used as a �facade to commit human rights abuses�. It called on China to �respect the rights of all its citizens and to release all those who have recently been detained for seeking to protect the rights of Chinese citizens�.

Meanwhile, Human Rights Watch (HRW) has called on China to ends its use of a two-tier passport system. Under the system, residents from areas that have large Tibetan and Muslim populations have to provide more extensive documentation than other Chinese citizens.

According to HRW, there is a fast-track passport application process for residents in areas populated by the majority Han Chinese that is denied to people in areas populated predominately by Tibetans and Muslims. An HRW report identified cases where members of religious minorities faced delays of five years in getting a passport or were refused one.

�The restrictions also violate freedom of belief by denying or limiting religious minorities� ability to participate in pilgrimages outside China,� said Sophie Richardson, the China director at HRW. Extra restrictions in Tibet since 2012 have stopped most residents travelling abroad, while attending any events in other countries, such as teachings by the Dalai Lama, the exiled spiritual leader of the Tibetan people, is considered to be subversive political activity.

A Tibetan lama, Tenzin Delek Rinpoche, has died in prison, 13 years into a 20-year sentence for what human rights groups say were false charges that he was involved in a park bombing. He was 65. The cause of death was not clear, but according to a statement by the group Students for a Free Tibet, he had been suffering from serious health problems and had been refused medical parole.

Tenzin Delek Rinpoche was arrested in 2002 for alleged involvement in a bomb attack in Chengu, the capital of Sichuan province, and was initially sentenced to death. His sentence was later suspended and changed to life imprisonment.

Tenzin Dolkar, the executive director of Students for a Free Tibet, said: �His death is a harsh reminder of the violent and brutal reality of Chinese-occupied Tibet.�

This is appalling. By any standard, if only China could be a free country, like the US who would never ever do something like thi-

quote:

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/07/13/laura-poitras-sues-u-s-government-find-repeatedly-stopped-border/

Laura Poitras Sues U.S. Government to Find Out Why She Was Repeatedly Stopped at the Border

Jenna McLaughlin
July 13 2015, 2:29 p.m.
Over six years, filmmaker Laura Poitras was searched, interrogated and detained more than 50 times at U.S. and foreign airports.

When she asked why, U.S. agencies wouldn�t say.

Now, after receiving no response to her Freedom of Information Act requests for documents pertaining to her systemic targeting, Poitras is suing the U.S. government.

In a complaint filed on Monday afternoon, Poitras demanded that the Department of Justice, the Department of Homeland Security, and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence release any and all documentation pertaining to her tracking, targeting and questioning while traveling between 2006 and 2012.

�I�m filing this lawsuit because the government uses the U.S. border to bypass the rule of law,� Poitras said in a statement. Poitras co-founded The Intercept with Glenn Greenwald and Jeremy Scahill.

She said she hopes to draw attention to how other people, who aren�t as well known, �are also subjected to years of Kafkaesque harassment at the borders.�

Poitras has been the subject of government monitoring since 2006, when she was working on a documentary film, My Country, My Country, that told the story of the Iraq War from the perspective of an Iraqi doctor.

Airport security informed her that the Department of Homeland Security assigned her the highest �threat rating� possible, despite the fact that she has never been charged with a crime. She described the government�s inspection and forceful seizure of her notebooks, laptop, cell phone and other personal items as �shameful� in an interview with Democracy Now in 2012. On one occasion, security officers at the airport refused to allow her to take notes on her interrogation, arguing that her pen could be used as a weapon.

Poitras was only freed from the constant harassment after Glenn Greenwald published an article about her plight in 2012, and a group of filmmakers united to write a petition against the government�s monitoring.

Based on her earlier work, NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden picked Poitras, along with Greenwald, to receive his archive of documents, which revealed massive worldwide surveillance by the U.S. and the U.K. Poitras won an Academy Award in 2014 for her documentary about Snowden, called CITIZENFOUR, and shared the 2014 Pulitzer Prize for public service.

In 2013, Poitras filed a Freedom of Information Act request to access any information about herself that the government used to determine that she was a danger to national security and worthy of intense scrutiny.

There is an immense backlog of unanswered FOIA requests across the government. Just this year, the number of unanswered FOIA requests swelled to over 200,000 � over 50 percent more than last year.

Poitras is being represented by lawyers at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a digital rights advocacy group. �The well-documented difficulties Ms. Poitras experienced while traveling strongly suggest that she was improperly targeted by federal agencies as a result of her journalistic activities,� EFF senior counsel David Sobel told the Intercept. �Those agencies are now attempting to conceal information that would shed light on tactics that appear to have been illegal. We are confident that the court will not condone the government�s attempt to hide its misconduct under a veil of �national security.'�

In addition to Poitras, Glenn Greenwald and his husband have also been repeatedly abused by our government, placed on watch lists and other such things for being aggressive defenders of human rights. The TSA no fly list is often, without any recourse been used against other kinds of activists as well. Lets not forget also how the Obama administration continues to have people detained in Gitmo without trial for years and years where officials have said that even if they were to be acquited after having been illegally detained, abducted, and held without legally obtained evidence by the Bush administration as past major candidates for president have vowed to "double gitmo."

When the United States, a country that purports to be a leader on human rights becomes contemptuous of them while still using that as the basis for sanctions, invasions, and punitive measures, they have no place at all to criticize anyone else, such as China. America has abandoned what moral high ground it had. We gently caress up a lot but we once had world wide good will, helping to liberate Europe from Nazi Germany. Where have we gone? As glamorized as the constitution is by politicians within the beltway consensus come election time, they are not so keen on recognizing the human rights aspects outside of their pet issues.

# ? Jul 17, 2015 23:49

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# ? Apr 18, 2024 10:34

FizFashizzle: Mar 30, 2005

Mandy Thompson posted:

Where have we gone?

Regarding our post ww2 goodwill?

Probably Potsdam.

# ? Jul 17, 2015 23:55

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

On average human beings are 70% good 30% bad. Nixon knew it, Mao knew it.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 00:10

DeusExMachinima: Sep 2, 2012; This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!

Put this loser on ignore immediately!

quote:

the religious group Falun Gong, which is banned in China.

Hrm. Quick question for everyone else: which country would you rather be oppressed in, China or America?

# ? Jul 18, 2015 00:19

Fojar38: Sep 2, 2011; Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia

also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

Someone was put high on a threat list for spurious reasons, greatly inconveniencing them and causing them to sue the US government. This is exactly the same as being locked up indefinitely without trial by an authoritarian regime.

Signed: A. Goon

# ? Jul 18, 2015 00:20

JeffersonClay: Jun 17, 2003; by R. Guyovich

How would Laura, Glenn and his husband have fared in China? I hear they're p. chill IRT stealing and publicizing state secrets.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 00:31

crabcakes66: May 24, 2012; by exmarx

An activist being moderately inconvenienced from ending up on some watch list is exactly the same as systematic oppression.

This reminds of conservative whites in America comparing some moderate inconvenience to actual slavery.

crabcakes66 fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Jul 18, 2015

# ? Jul 18, 2015 00:39

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

DeusExMachinima posted:

Hrm. Quick question for everyone else: which country would you rather be oppressed in, China or America?

Outraged by Planned Parenthood? You won't believe what Communist China does to THIS Religious Minority!

# ? Jul 18, 2015 00:40

Cockmaster: Feb 24, 2002

crabcakes66 posted:

An activist being moderately inconvenienced from ending up on some watch list is exactly the same as systematic oppression.

This reminds of conservative whites in America comparing some moderate inconvenience to actual slavery.

I'd imagine you could find at least some room for improvement in the human rights department pretty much everywhere. All this bickering over "moral high ground" is nothing more than ad hominem bullshit.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 01:04

Fojar38: Sep 2, 2011; Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia

also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

Cockmaster posted:

I'd imagine you could find at least some room for improvement in the human rights department pretty much everywhere. All this bickering over "moral high ground" is nothing more than ad hominem bullshit.

The US has the moral high ground over almost all of its regional rivals, hope that helps.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 01:10

Dilkington: Aug 6, 2010; "Al mio amore Dilkington, Gennaro"

Mandy Thompson posted:

When the United States, a country that purports to be a leader on human rights becomes contemptuous of them while still using that as the basis for sanctions, invasions, and punitive measures, they have no place at all to criticize anyone else, such as China. America has abandoned what moral high ground it had. We gently caress up a lot but we once had world wide good will, helping to liberate Europe from Nazi Germany. Where have we gone? As glamorized as the constitution is by politicians within the beltway consensus come election time, they are not so keen on recognizing the human rights aspects outside of their pet issues.

Are these questions addressed solely to Americans? Could you provide a list of countries whose citizens can criticize the US?

# ? Jul 18, 2015 02:29

Fojar38: Sep 2, 2011; Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia

also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

Honestly there is still a shitload of global goodwill towards the US. The people most critical of the US in my experience are almost always Americans themselves, Europeans/Canadians tend to be, at worst, smug over petty poo poo rather than outright hostile.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 02:31

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

It's not so much that the US is particularly good at human rights or civil liberties but that all other major powers are cartoonishly awful

# ? Jul 18, 2015 02:44

tsa: Feb 3, 2014

Fojar38 posted:

Someone was put high on a threat list for spurious reasons, greatly inconveniencing them and causing them to sue the US government. This is exactly the same as being locked up indefinitely without trial by an authoritarian regime.

Signed: A. Goon

No joke what a loving stupid comparison.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 03:41

Dr. Killjoy: Oct 9, 2012

McDowell posted:

Outraged by Planned Parenthood? You won't believe what Communist China does to THIS Religious Minority!

Haven't like every other anti-government activists that aren't Falun Gong rejected the forcible organ donations thing as bullshit though?

# ? Jul 18, 2015 03:42

tsa: Feb 3, 2014

Mandy Thompson posted:

When the United States, a country that purports to be a leader on human rights becomes contemptuous of them while still using that as the basis for sanctions, invasions, and punitive measures, they have no place at all to criticize anyone else, such as China. America has abandoned what moral high ground it had. We gently caress up a lot but we once had world wide good will, helping to liberate Europe from Nazi Germany. Where have we gone? As glamorized as the constitution is by politicians within the beltway consensus come election time, they are not so keen on recognizing the human rights aspects outside of their pet issues.

It's almost as if degrees matter and viewing the world in black and white is really dumb.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 03:44

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

And you are lynching Negroes: the thread.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 03:57

asdf32: May 15, 2010; I lust for childrens' deaths. Ask me about how I don't care if my kids die.

Yeah where have we gone. We have a black president, healthcare reform and gay marriage too.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 04:15

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

asdf32 posted:

We have a black president, healthcare reform and gay marriage too.

It's basically Nazi Germany up in here.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 04:38

Red and Black: Sep 5, 2011

Fojar38 posted:

The US has the moral high ground over almost all of its regional rivals, hope that helps.

The two stories in the OP aren't comparable, but the US is just as guilty as China of human rights abuses if not more so. The difference is the US commits them internationally through kidnapping, torture, and, irregular warfare (read: terrorism), whilst China commits the vast majority of their crimes domestically.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 04:49

Fojar38: Sep 2, 2011; Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia

also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

Chomskyan posted:

The two stories in the OP aren't comparable, but the US is just as guilty as China of human rights abuses if not more so. The difference is the US commits them internationally through kidnapping, torture, and, irregular warfare (read: terrorism), whilst China commits the vast majority of their crimes domestically.

Your name/avatar/post combo makes me really really really want to ask you about the Khmer Rouge.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 05:01

Rodatose: Jul 8, 2008; corn, corn, corn

I think it says something with vietnam when you can have a country like the us kill and disfigure millions of your citizens through a protracted, unjust war and you still would rather deal with them than china

# ? Jul 18, 2015 05:01

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Chomskyan posted:

The two stories in the OP aren't comparable, but the US is just as guilty as China of human rights abuses if not more so. The difference is the US commits them internationally through kidnapping, torture, and, irregular warfare (read: terrorism), whilst China commits the vast majority of their crimes domestically.

Much like in Business, the U.S. mostly outsources it's abuses while china produces them locally.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 05:01

dkj: Feb 18, 2009

lmao savages

# ? Jul 18, 2015 05:08

HorseLord: Aug 26, 2014

Fojar38 posted:

Someone was put high on a threat list for spurious reasons, greatly inconveniencing them and causing them to sue the US government. This is exactly the same as being locked up indefinitely without trial by an authoritarian regime.

Signed: A. Goon

Gitmo

# ? Jul 18, 2015 05:40

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

DeusExMachinima posted:

Hrm. Quick question for everyone else: which country would you rather be oppressed in, China or America?

China a place that is open about how much it wants to put its foot against your head. Also America is bad because of Iraq.

Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Jul 18, 2015

# ? Jul 18, 2015 05:46

Fojar38: Sep 2, 2011; Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia

also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

HorseLord posted:

Gitmo

- A Stalinist

# ? Jul 18, 2015 05:46

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

HorseLord posted:

Gitmo

You're the one who was defending Uncle Joe right?

# ? Jul 18, 2015 05:51

pentyne: Nov 7, 2012

DeusExMachinima posted:

Hrm. Quick question for everyone else: which country would you rather be oppressed in, China or America?

It's the classic "Well the US had slavery and Indian genocide so they can't criticize the current actions of another country" bs you get from a generation raised on South Park that thinks the most intelligent thing to say in a debate is to pretend both sides are just as bad as the other removing any moral superiority.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 06:20

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Posting in a trollthread

# ? Jul 18, 2015 06:28

Fojar38: Sep 2, 2011; Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia

also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

Omelette du Fromage posted:

Posting in a trollthread

Trolling in a post-thread

# ? Jul 18, 2015 06:33

kapparomeo: Apr 19, 2011; Some say his extreme-right links are clearly known, even in the fascist capitalist imperialist Murdochist press...

Chomskyan posted:

The two stories in the OP aren't comparable, but the US is just as guilty as China of human rights abuses if not more so. The difference is the US commits them internationally through kidnapping, torture, and, irregular warfare (read: terrorism), whilst China commits the vast majority of their crimes domestically.

When you control a sprawling continental empire that still represses colonial vassals (sorry, "autonomous zones") to this day you can also have a very broad interpretation of "domestic".

# ? Jul 18, 2015 09:26

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

kapparomeo posted:

When you control a sprawling continental empire that still represses colonial vassals (sorry, "autonomous zones") to this day you can also have a very broad interpretation of "domestic".

you're getting real close to hurting the chinese feelings, there

# ? Jul 18, 2015 09:31

klen dool: May 7, 2007; Okay well me being wrong in some limited situations doesn't change my overall point.

Fojar38 posted:

Honestly there is still a shitload of global goodwill towards the US. The people most critical of the US in my experience are almost always Americans themselves, Europeans/Canadians tend to be, at worst, smug over petty poo poo rather than outright hostile.

Hahahahahahahahahhaha wtf really? Most people in my experience think you are all aggressive religious war mongering shitheads based in the foreign policy your government practices. I wish my government agreed with me though.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 10:19

Creamed Cormp: Jan 8, 2011; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

klen dool posted:

Hahahahahahahahahhaha wtf really? Most people in my experience think you are all aggressive religious war mongering shitheads based in the foreign policy your government practices. I wish my government agreed with me though.

lol if you think this is an actual opinion held by anyone who isn't a dumb 12 years old leftist with a Che t-shirt, or a legit goat loving terrorist

# ? Jul 18, 2015 10:47

Red and Black: Sep 5, 2011

WitchFetish posted:

lol if you think this is an actual opinion held by anyone who isn't a dumb 12 years old leftist with a Che t-shirt, or a legit goat loving terrorist

On the other hand, polling data

# ? Jul 18, 2015 11:44

crabcakes66: May 24, 2012; by exmarx

Chomskyan posted:

On the other hand, polling data

So basically lingering effects of the dumbshit Iraq war and the date of that poll misses recent Russian and Chinese aggression and the deal with Iran.

Meanwhile in your article:

quote:

While poll respondents seem anxious about the United States� role in world affairs, many of them would have no problems moving to America if they could. The United States topped WIN/Gallup�s list of top countries people would move to with 9 percent of the vote.

Also: polling data!

# ? Jul 18, 2015 12:20

klen dool: May 7, 2007; Okay well me being wrong in some limited situations doesn't change my overall point.

WitchFetish posted:

lol if you think this is an actual opinion held by anyone who isn't a dumb 12 years old leftist with a Che t-shirt, or a legit goat loving terrorist

I hold this opinion and I'm not 12, I don't own a Che t-shirt, and have never hosed a goat. Terrorism, on the other hand....

Anyway, I didn't say the US was the worst.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 13:28

Gum: Mar 9, 2008; _{oho, a rapist

time to try this puppy out}

kapparomeo posted:

When you control a sprawling continental empire that still represses colonial vassals (sorry, "autonomous zones") to this day you can also have a very broad interpretation of "domestic".

you're right, hiding your colonial activity behind a wall of euphemisms is another thing china and the us have in common

# ? Jul 18, 2015 13:39

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# ? Apr 18, 2024 10:34

HorseLord: Aug 26, 2014

kapparomeo posted:

When you control a sprawling continental empire that still represses colonial vassals (sorry, "autonomous zones") to this day you can also have a very broad interpretation of "domestic".

Native reservations, Puerto Rico.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 13:53

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > China abuses human rights activists. US also abuses human rights activists

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