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Job prospects are not why you go to college. It's higher education, not trade school. You go to college to learn how (not what) to think and be exposed to more subjects in more depth than you can get elsewhere. The intended end result is that you become a person whose opinions can be taken seriously by grown-ups. Afterwards, or before, possibly during, you pick up some marketable skills like welding, accounting, or so on, possibly including a professional degree such as MD, JD, or ASE-certified mechanic. Most people won't need any of this to function as office-drones, but you do need something beyond high school to function as a citizen in a 21st century civilization. This may sound elitist, but it's the truth. The corollary to this is that attacks on the affordability and accessibility of higher education are a direct attack on the ability of the people to engage in democratic processes without simply being easily manipulated pawns.
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Jul 21, 2015 20:43
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in most big companies, i see way, way more humanities majors than business majors (undergrad, that is, not MBAs). the key is to go to a good school or have good connections, the rest of you are all pretty hosed with just a bachelors degree unless you're in one of the vocational undergrad majors i.e. engineering and nursing
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Jul 21, 2015 20:46
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oh also accounting
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Jul 21, 2015 20:48
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lol if you think you can learn to think from a bunch of beardos that literally couldn't exist outside of a freakin school... like they've been in school since being a toddler and they're the thinking guys now? The smart guys? Sure ok ya fuckin dweeb
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Jul 21, 2015 20:49
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90% of the STEM and business majors I knew in undergrad have good-paying jobs today, and 90% of the humanities majors I knew in undergrad are still living off student loans while they half-assedly go for their PhDs or nth Masters or whatever. Where are these Wall Street companies that are hiring humanities majors?? I'm honestly curious.
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Jul 21, 2015 20:52
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Sheen Sheen posted:Where are these Wall Street companies that are hiring humanities majors?? I'm honestly curious. I'm guessing you have to be coloured
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Jul 21, 2015 20:55
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Sheen Sheen posted:90% of the STEM and business majors I knew in undergrad have good-paying jobs today, and 90% of the humanities majors I knew in undergrad are still living off student loans while they half-assedly go for their PhDs or nth Masters or whatever. Where are these Wall Street companies that are hiring humanities majors?? I'm honestly curious. This mostly applies to ivy leaguers
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Jul 21, 2015 20:58
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turns out where you went to school matters way more than what you actually majored in
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Jul 21, 2015 20:59
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business degrees a real good for being maanager of a best buy
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Jul 21, 2015 20:59
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Moridin920 posted:turns out where you went to school matters way more than what you actually majored in I think it might be more like the kind of person who goes to an ivy league is much more likely to have connections in the family.
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Jul 21, 2015 21:01
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I mean a lot of business school faculty come from local businesses so if you go to some noname school it's a good way to make connections and get internships that lead to jobs. Also meeting bros whose dads can get you a job at the dealership
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Jul 21, 2015 21:04
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ArbitraryC posted:I think it might be more like the kind of person who goes to an ivy league is much more likely to have connections in the family. And also if you're friends with that kid he can put a good word in with his dad
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Jul 21, 2015 21:05
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The Taint Reaper posted:The crash happened in 2007 if the socialist revolution didn't happen then it's never going to happen. I know a bunch of people who lost jobs and went back to school for mba's/law school in 2009ish, just to looks good on resumes when jobs were scarce, who then got out and still work temp hourly jobs without benefits because welcome to teh futar
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Jul 21, 2015 21:07
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never pay for an MBA unless it's hbs or something
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Jul 21, 2015 21:09
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Mange Mite posted:oh also accounting That's a business degree. 100% of the accounting majors I knew in undergrad are employed and making poo poo-tons of money. There are tiers of business school--Accounting and HR people will always have jobs it seems, Finance people have found it harder to get jobs since the economy tanked, and Marketing/General Business is the Communications of the Business world--it's the realm of trophy wives and kids who are going to take over their father's business and run it into the ground 20 years down the line
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Jul 21, 2015 21:10
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naem posted:I know a bunch of people who lost jobs and went back to school for mba's/law school in 2009ish, just to looks good on resumes when jobs were scarce, who then got out and still work temp hourly jobs without benefits because welcome to teh futar *kramer slides into the room* I guess that's life under obamacare!! Jerry: haha
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Jul 21, 2015 21:13
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Sheen Sheen posted:That's a business degree. 100% of the accounting majors I knew in undergrad are employed and making poo poo-tons of money. When I say business degree I mean generic degrees in "business" not evwry major from the business school. Accounting is an actual job skill
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Jul 21, 2015 21:16
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it's hilarious that the USA makes it difficult to have a competitive work force Germany has effectively free education and a highly competitive economy with factories churning out all the iPhone bits that get assembled in China and then sold here and meanwhile if you want to go to college and get a decent career in the USA you have to go into crippling debt assuming you even qualify for loans sufficient to cover the cost of an education in the first place how many intelligent people that could make a contribution do we have languishing in some bullshit dead end job because they can't afford school for whatever reason? I guess it doesn't matter because thanks to our free trade agreements and the short term thinking of executives it's better to just pay Asians a dollar an hour to give you a shittastic end product so either way our workers would have to be competing with literal sweat shop workers that get paid effectively nothing. who cares about Qualcomm losing half its revenue and having to lay off thousands of people; my share holders are happy and I'm getting a fat severance! Goddamn whoever is running this country is loving up. You're not supposed to strangle the golden goose. All the actual smart rich people who created companies and made them giant multinational conglomerates are all dead or dying though and the idiot sons are all in charge. It was inevitable. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Jul 21, 2015 |
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Jul 21, 2015 21:16
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Mange Mite posted:This mostly applies to ivy leaguers Oh that it explains it, I went to a state school 
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Jul 21, 2015 21:19
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I'd rather learn how to make money than learn how everything is actually sexist. Business guy: I can make money buying and selling these bonds. *makes a million dollars* Social scientist: Actually these bonds are sexist. *collects welfare*
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Jul 21, 2015 21:21
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When it finally comes time to hack apart the wealthy with machetes, do we also snuff the accountants or do they count as working class Joes?
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Jul 21, 2015 21:28
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Moridin920 posted:it's hilarious that the USA makes it difficult to have a competitive work force The U.S. has headed aggressively towards an elitist, almost aristocratic society where a few have everything. There's been a non stop assault on the middle class for short term gain with no goal whatsoever for society as a whole. For decades. It's weird. No one cares at all about anything but quarterly profit, gently caress all employees, forget that "employees" are the ones with money to buy the goods and services the company makes and markets. Pump up a stock, dump all expenses, fire all employees, burn, plunder, then all the executives scramble to network into a bigger better location at the next company, repeat. Nothing else. Not part of this elite? gently caress UUU Quite a few billionaires created this way, and a huge number of intelligent capable educated middle class people's lives ruined with no safety net. gently caress em! Heh. The very concept of planning or caring about society as a whole here is laughable and nonexistent. We've gotten away with it because we rode a money bubble hard, for decades; it remains to be seen if we can pull out of this to something more sustainable. There's nothing stopping us, we just don't. naem fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jul 21, 2015 |
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Jul 21, 2015 21:30
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Hardcore phone posting itt
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Jul 21, 2015 21:31
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naem posted:The U.S. has headed aggressively towards an elitist, almost aristocratic society where a few have everything. There's been a non stop assault on the middle class for short term gain with no goal whatsoever for society as a whole. For decades. It's weird. Too much immigration combined with anti-racism campaigns has eroded your white social cohesion leading to the current situation where everyone is fine to let everyone else burn.
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Jul 21, 2015 21:33
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Roy posted:I'd rather learn how to make money than learn how everything is actually sexist. Lol
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Jul 21, 2015 21:34
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Roy posted:Too much immigration combined with anti-racism campaigns has eroded your white social cohesion leading to the current situation where everyone is fine to let everyone else burn. Social cohesion is an issue in the U.S. yes. Murdering everyone who is a different race than you to create social cohesion is kinda two centuries ago, going to go ahead and say DONT, murdering personally um, Everyone getting along in a big happy rainbow and USA #1 freedom eagles would be p great, it remains to be seen if that happens either, would be nice to approximate it
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Jul 21, 2015 21:40
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Been reading a lot about China, and the big hurdle they may not overcome is allowing a big enough middle (consumer) class to come into existence (and therefore power). The communist party, and the existing wealthy elite, would have to p much sacrifice themselves to accomplish that goal and I don't see it happening; they won't allow the threat to themselves that would create to exist. Ironically the U.S. heads in a very similar direction. It was the gi bill and gi housing loan that let every halfway intelligent American post wwii to go to school and learn a skill/trade/ develop their minds a bit, combined with the fact the rest of the world blew itself up, that allowed our formerly strong middle class to exist that propelled us to the wealth and power we've enjoyed
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Jul 21, 2015 21:47
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Frozen Horse posted:Job prospects are not why you go to college. It's higher education, not trade school. You go to college to learn how (not what) to think and be exposed to more subjects in more depth than you can get elsewhere. The intended end result is that you become a person whose opinions can be taken seriously by grown-ups. 
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Jul 21, 2015 21:49
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naem posted:Social cohesion is an issue in the U.S. yes. 2 centuries ago? More like 80, tops. And that's for successful ones, more like 30 or zero otherwise
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Jul 21, 2015 21:55
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Mange Mite posted:2 centuries ago? More like 80, tops. And that's for successful ones, more like 30 or zero otherwise
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Jul 21, 2015 22:02
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naem posted:Been reading a lot about China, and the big hurdle they may not overcome is allowing a big enough middle (consumer) class to come into existence (and therefore power). why would they need to? the world buys all their consumer poo poo they dont need to sell it to locals
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Jul 21, 2015 22:31
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Rutibex posted:why would they need to? the world buys all their consumer poo poo they dont need to sell it to locals It would make their economy self sufficient as they both produce and consume, like the U.S., which is how we become so huge. They'd become like a quadruple size 1980's Japan. Signs are pointing to this not happening for them, in fact they seem headed into a stagnation much like current Japan only with a billion extra super poor people who never escape that poorness. Poor-ing. Not, money-ness.
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Jul 21, 2015 22:40
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a business deegre is p much a 4 year nursery school for rich kids
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Jul 21, 2015 23:28
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agreed
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Jul 21, 2015 23:29
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Liberal arts college used to be finishing schools for rich kids from known families, that's why they exist in the US. Somewhere along the line they became fashionable, just like a big green lawn, and now every yahoo out there is convinced they got an "education" when what they really got is socially acceptable indoctrination into the latest cultural milieus and a random grab bags of facts and a few bonus ideologies with which to sloppily assort them, to display when they can like vanity license plates. People convinced this was an education. Education can only happen on one's own terms, anything else is fashionable indoctrination, repetition and lies by omission. Learn on your own, you can learn a lot from a little. The firehose of knowledge does more damage in this regard because of both its implicit disorganization and its own impartment of a feeling of obviousness about its worth. Liberal arts education is neither structured carefully nor obviously valuable. Im typing like a big fag and I still haven't really said what I am trying to say. For discerning the truth, liberal arts degrees are soulless, and for marketable job skills they're next to worthless. It's all got to go in favor of some newer more careful and cohesive model. Or just fuckit idc
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Jul 22, 2015 00:55
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Tautologicus posted:Liberal arts college used to be finishing schools for rich kids from known families, that's why they exist in the US. Somewhere along the line they became fashionable, just like a big green lawn, and now every yahoo out there is convinced they got an "education" when what they really got is socially acceptable indoctrination into the latest cultural milieus and a random grab bags of facts and a few bonus ideologies with which to sloppily assort them, to display when they can like vanity license plates. People convinced this was an education. Education can only happen on one's own terms, anything else is fashionable indoctrination, repetition and lies by omission. Learn on your own, you can learn a lot from a little. The firehose of knowledge does more damage in this regard because of both its implicit disorganization and its own impartment of a feeling of obviousness about its worth. Liberal arts education is neither structured carefully nor obviously valuable. Im typing like a big fag and I still haven't really said what I am trying to say. The whole point is if you can keep up a good GPA you're probably responsible & driven enough to show up to work on time and not gently caress around too much. Hence its value to employers
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Jul 22, 2015 00:56
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Cool NIN Shirt posted:The whole point is if you can keep up a good GPA you're probably responsible & driven enough to show up to work on time and not gently caress around too much. Hence its value to employers Yes thats what its degenerated into, a glorified checkbox for employers. "Papers please". It was degenerate from the start of the fashion, but with more pomp and circumstance before. I have a liberal arts degree, but I would have been saying the same thing if I had just stuck with my GED. Wish i had, not proud of having a degree (even if debt free from it), but I am proud of having a GED.
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Jul 22, 2015 01:01
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Cool NIN Shirt posted:The whole point is if you can keep up a good GPA you're probably responsible & driven enough to show up to work on time and not gently caress around too much. Hence its value to employers Hahahahahahahaha You've never hired anyone have you?
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Jul 22, 2015 01:04
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Vegetable posted:Yes let's spend four years studying for a trade-school degree that reveals nothing about the human condition. What new insights into humanity will Accounting 101 reap for me today? philosophy human being spotted
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Jul 22, 2015 01:07
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Oh right cool nin is that dope head that snorted russian meth
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Jul 22, 2015 01:08
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