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Okay, we all know mummies are real. Are they vampiric in nature? Do they share a common ancestor?
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Jul 27, 2015 01:37
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:http://www.csicop.org/si/show/cinema_fiction_vs._physics_reality/ Sorry but this isn't convincing: quote:After one has stuck his fangs into your neck and sucked you dry, you turn into a vampire yourself and carry on the blood-sucking legacy... First, they need to show their sources. I'm a bit, um, skeptical of an inquiry that makes claims like this without citing their sources. If it were a first year term paper, it would fail for this reason alone. We don't know that all humans bitten by vampires die. And the monthly feeding, like clockwork, is a number they pulled out of the aether. Reductio ad absurdum, indeed. Also, they mention that non-vampire related human deaths would decrease the human population even more quickly, yet they ignore the deaths of vampires. Finally, while Dracula's existence depends on the prima facie existence of vampires, the existence of other vampires does not necessarily follow from the existence of a single Dracula unless you accept their first premise, and then contend that none of these 2nd generation vampires were slain. All in all this is not what I call science, so my point in the OP still stands. Sharkie fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 01:38
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site posted:Is it hard to wrap your head around? This seems more like a question for AT rather than Dd.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:38
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:I'm not current in the field of Draculaology, my focus is on Mummy Critical Theory. Don't tell me you're one of those Frankfurtstein School nihilists.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:40
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Sharkie posted:Fair enough. Would you agree though that science, or at least the scientific community, presumes they are recognizable to science and open to scientific analysis? I'd agree with that on the understanding that anything that isn't recognizable by science probably isn't a big problem for anybody living on this planet.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:41
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Do they share a common ancestor? This is problematic racist stereotype, not all mummies are Egyptian. Sharkie posted:Also, they mention that non-vampire related human deaths would decrease the human population even more quickly, yet they ignore the deaths of vampires. Vampires are deathless, by definition one can ignore vampire deaths.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:42
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reignofevil posted:I'd agree with that on the understanding that anything that isn't recognizable by science probably isn't a big problem for anybody living on this planet. Science can't recognize man's inhumanity to man and it's a pretty big problem.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:43
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reignofevil posted:I'd agree with that on the understanding that anything that isn't recognizable by science probably isn't a big problem for anybody living on this planet. Is "how to live a good life" or "how should society be ordered" recognizable by science? I would say no given that they require a certain degree of subjectivity to be answered. Perhaps Dracula functions in a similar way, though I'm not sure how this would be so.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:43
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:This is problematic racist stereotype, not all mummies are Egyptian. Yeah fine, I guess some people consider those freeze-dried human popsicles "mummies" but you know what I'm talking about.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:45
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:Vampires are deathless, by definition one can ignore vampire deaths. Right, but what of their slaying? If they can't die again, which I'm ready to accept, what do we make of vampire slayers? Maybe we should accept the operant definition of "slaying" in this thread as "the ending of a vampire's existence as a vampire, in a manner that does not return it to a living human state," until we're ready to grapple with the weightier problems of defining life, unlife, and the termination of both.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:45
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Sharkie posted:Is "how to live a good life" or "how should society be ordered" recognizable by science? Yes. This scientific field is called Marxism-Leninism.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:46
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Yeah fine, I guess some people consider those freeze-dried human popsicles "mummies" but you know what I'm talking about. That's some mighty fine cultural exceptional ism you're sporting there. Please stop being racist.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:48
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HorseLord posted:Yes. This scientific field is called Marxism-Leninism. Unless Lenin rises from his tomb on Red Square then this point doesn't really belong in this thread. He can't though since he is taxidermist rather than mummified the proper way which would be more relevant here. So I'm not sure what you're arguing.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:49
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Gravel Gravy posted:That's some mighty fine cultural exceptional ism you're sporting there. Please stop being racist. I'm just being a realist here, I don't know why people get so drat sensitive about bandage heads.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:50
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If I may return to my previous source, IwtV, vampires clearly are shown to be able to be killed a second, and final, time given the proper treatment.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:50
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:I'm just being a realist here, I don't know why people get so drat sensitive about bandage heads. Uh wow. Did you actually go there?
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Jul 27, 2015 01:52
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Gravel Gravy posted:Uh wow. Did you actually go there? Look, I don't agree with his use of the slur, but please don't try to shut down debate in this thread.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:52
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Sharkie posted:Look, I don't agree with his use of the slur, but please don't try to shut down debate in this thread. Lumberjack Bonanza posted:I'm just being a realist here, I don't know why people get so drat sensitive about bandage heads. OK I am sorry LB, I didn't want to make you feel that your opinion was less valid than the guy that posted actual evidence relevant to the discussion.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:55
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Gravel Gravy posted:Uh wow. Did you actually go there? You explain to me why mummies can get away with poo poo like this, but when I don't respect them, suddenly I'm the racist! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELl3TTeGwek&t=130s
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Jul 27, 2015 02:00
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Well, let's consider that there are actual historical records of the living man who became Dracula. That's pretty powerful evidence, especially when coupled with the belief that many who lived during his transition believed he had become Dracula. We know he existed, the question is about the extent of his supernatural nature, and whether "Vampires", a group of which he is merely a part, are what the stories claim. But I'd like to diverge a moment and talk about why we should believe vampires exist in practical terms. 1. They help us install proper moral values in children, by serving as a convenient threat should the child behave inappropriately by staying out too late at night. 2. They allow us to reflect on what it means to truly be human. 3. They provide a higher authority, one that is superior to humanity, instilling within us a needed sense of humility. Anyone who tries to claim Dracula does not exist is threatening to rob of us of these incredibly important social reinforcers, and obviously care little about the health and well-being of our society as a moral entity.
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Jul 27, 2015 02:00
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guys did dracula really come from transylvania? how do we know he wasn't in lake titicaca when atlantis sank?
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Jul 27, 2015 02:01
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:You explain to me why mummies can get away with poo poo like this, but when I don't respect them, suddenly I'm the racist! HULK Hogan was an actual threat though so the rules of engagement were well open. Same with Abbot and Costello when they invaded the mummy's private property
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Jul 27, 2015 02:04
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GlyphGryph posted:3. They provide a higher authority, one that is superior to humanity, instilling within us a needed sense of humility. Is this true though? What higher authority does Dracula have over humanity? In fact, it would appear that vampires are sub human because they lack characteristics that would instill empathy, sympathy, and ultimately authority. Jerry Manderbilt posted:guys did dracula really come from transylvania? how do we know he wasn't in lake titicaca when atlantis sank? Reported
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Jul 27, 2015 02:04
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GlyphGryph posted:Well, let's consider that there are actual historical records of the living man who became Dracula. That's pretty powerful evidence, especially when coupled with the belief that many who lived during his transition believed he had become Dracula. You are being pretty insensitive to any Draculas in the thread. Jerry Manderbilt posted:guys did dracula really come from transylvania? how do we know he wasn't in lake titicaca when atlantis sank? Uh do you have any backing for this question or are you just spitballing ?
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Jul 27, 2015 02:05
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Gravel Gravy posted:HULK Hogan was an actual threat though so the rules of engagement were well open. Yeah, sure. That's why he and a giant ganged up on an American Hero. Those monsters want us all dead, and this attitude is going to let them take over. What are you, some kind of skeleton warrior?
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Jul 27, 2015 02:07
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GlyphGryph posted:Well, let's consider that there are actual historical records of the living man who became Dracula. That's pretty powerful evidence, especially when coupled with the belief that many who lived during his transition believed he had become Dracula. This is pretty interesting, thanks. Would you say that if Dracula did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him? site posted:Reported Prove them wrong, if you think they're wrong. As a vampire questioner I'm sensitive to issues being shut down without a proper hashing out of claims and counterclaims.
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Jul 27, 2015 02:08
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Yeah, sure. That's why he and a giant ganged up on an American Hero. Those monsters want us all dead, and this attitude is going to let them take over. What are you, some kind of skeleton warrior? With Hogan's record he probably provoked the mummy by way of a racial slur. But that's just speculation, which you should take as equally valid despite any future evidence to the contrary.
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Jul 27, 2015 02:09
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Sharkie posted:First, they need to show their sources. I'm a bit, um, skeptical of an inquiry that makes claims like this without citing their sources. If it were a first year term paper, it would fail for this reason alone. We don't know that all humans bitten by vampires die. And the monthly feeding, like clockwork, is a number they pulled out of the aether. Reductio ad absurdum, indeed. The prior plausibility of the claim should also be taken into account: namely, that a predator species not only can but must, merely by the act of feeding on its prey, transform that prey into another predator of its kind. This is not to deny the existence of parasitoid predators, mind you; it is the argument that such reproduction occurs regardless of the predator's desire that I find questionable. This would not be an evolutionary dead end so much as a murder-suicide pact. The argument that such behavior would disprove the existence of Dracula is not inherently wrong, but it does ignore the far more obvious conclusion: that such behavior does not actually occur in the vampiric species.
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Jul 27, 2015 02:11
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Technogeek posted:The prior plausibility of the claim should also be taken into account: namely, that a predator species not only can but must, merely by the act of feeding on its prey, transform that prey into another predator of its kind. This is not to deny the existence of parasitoid predators, mind you; it is the argument that such reproduction occurs regardless of the predator's desire that I find questionable. This would not be an evolutionary dead end so much as a murder-suicide pact. The argument that such behavior would disprove the existence of Dracula is not inherently wrong, but it does ignore the far more obvious conclusion: that such behavior does not actually occur in the vampiric species. I think this is a sensible criticism. However, I would caution everyone against assuming Dracula lies open to the penetrating gaze of science. Perhaps science has so far been too timid to approach him. But perhaps death is a veil beyond which the light of reason does not shine.
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Jul 27, 2015 02:25
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site posted:Is this true though? What higher authority does Dracula have over humanity? In fact, it would appear that vampires are sub human because they lack characteristics that would instill empathy, sympathy, and ultimately authority. Why, the most fundamental authority of all, natural authority. Dracula is higher on the food chain - he is predator, and the humans prey. It firmly establishes us as below that peak to which we often think of ourselves. Also, they have all sorts of superhuman powers, obviously. One does not need to sympathize with or empathize with authority in order to respect it and fear it and know one's own place. Sharkie posted:This is pretty interesting, thanks. Would you say that if Dracula did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him? Maybe not Dracula himself in all the details, but surely something like him. Demons, sea monsters, even witches - Many things could fill the role.
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Jul 27, 2015 02:31
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:guys did dracula really come from transylvania? how do we know he wasn't in lake titicaca when atlantis sank? He was from Wallachia, idiot. Don't bring your subpar intellect into this perfectly reasonable discussion of the nature of something that could totally exist just because we can't prove it doesn't! We can't prove the nonexistance of magic, wizards, any deities, any monsters, the fact that video game realities aren't real somewhere, etc, so that means they are all equally as scientifically plausible.
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Jul 27, 2015 02:35
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GlyphGryph posted:Why, the most fundamental authority of all, natural authority. Dracula is higher on the food chain - he is predator, and the humans prey. It firmly establishes us as below that peak to which we often think of ourselves. Also, they have all sorts of superhuman powers, obviously. While I don't agree with your fascistic take wet Dracula I suppose you are entitled to feeling as though your opinion is correct. Where would one go to sign up for cattle duty?
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Jul 27, 2015 02:35
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Midnight Voyager posted:He was from Wallachia, idiot. Don't bring your subpar intellect into this perfectly reasonable discussion of the nature of something that could totally exist just because we can't prove it doesn't! Please don't resort to personal attacks. If you feel someone is wrong then you can provide arguments to that effect.
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Jul 27, 2015 02:40
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Gravel Gravy posted:While I don't agree with your fascistic take wet Dracula I suppose you are entitled to feeling as though your opinion is correct. It's not a duty, for there is nothing for you to do. It's not something most would seek out (though I would guess there are fringe believers who do, I know nothing of them), it is merely an incentive to recognize that there are being more powerful than onself, who can only be kept at bay by ritual and prayers that they do not seek you out. Does the deer sign up for cattle duty for the wolf? Of course not. But the mere existence of the wolf colours the deer's life, keeps it sharp, keeps it aware of it's place on the food chain and it's status as prey. The wolf doesn't require or request the deer do anything.
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Jul 27, 2015 02:40
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GlyphGryph posted:It's not a duty, for there is nothing for you to do. It's not something most would seek out (though I would guess there are fringe believers who do, I know nothing of them), it is merely an incentive to recognize that there are being more powerful than onself, who can only be kept at bay by ritual and prayers that they do not seek you out. Yeah but isn't it telling that the vampires have to keep up the Masquerade of being human so as to not be hunted into extinction? Even they know they can't fight all of us humans.
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Jul 27, 2015 02:44
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Not only is Dracula real but he also believes in his natural right to dominate and rule the human race therefore he will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes and full communism is implemented. Pardons will, however be given to Frankenstein's monster who was just reacting to societal prejudices against him and couldn't help it.
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Jul 27, 2015 02:47
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site posted:loving lol loving  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 27, 2015 02:48
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site posted:Yeah but isn't it telling that the vampires have to keep up the Masquerade of being human so as to not be hunted into extinction? Even they know they can't fight all of us humans. Are you seriously bringing lore from a table top game to a debate? 
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Jul 27, 2015 02:49
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Sharkie posted:3. Common biases and preconceptions hold that vampires do not exist as real, probably malevolent, bloodsucking immortal entities. I've integrated anthropology and political science, to transcend common bias To comprehend the necromancer, master of the highest forms of telekinesis, hypnosis, parallel projection of the astral self, perverse gnosis and telepathy, the power to control wolves, to transform, to live infinitely 
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Jul 27, 2015 03:16
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:My experience with the internet at large suggests crippling loneliness as a motivator. If Stoker were driven by loneliness he would just write tons of fanfiction like
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Jul 27, 2015 03:29
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