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So lets go over this potential story: Maura is the one who breaks the seal. 1) There exist saints who can use their power open the temple door 2) Nash and Flamie were too far away fighting demons 3) Chamot is declared too uncontrolled to leave no trace 4) Demon gunpowder is unable to break the temple's stone, which probably leaves Adlet out. 5) Her wherabouts at the time of the temple activation are unknown. Hans is the one that goes inside to activate the barrier. 1) He is an infiltrator. 2) He has been paid by at least one person. He asks "What, you all are doing this for free?" and talks about a king, but who says that's the only one employer? 3) His whereabouts at the time of temple activation are unknown. 4) He is known to have had time to coordinate a scheme like this with Maura. At least 1 day. 5) Maura is the head of the saints, and probably has money, or at least something equivalent. Nash, Goldov and Flamie all have strong alibis. They were just too far away. Maura, Hans and Flamie are the ones providing basically all the information. Maura and Hans in particular know a lot about the capabilities of this temple, and the saints. Now, as for who is the mastermind if it was the two of them, it would probably have to be Maura. Consider: 1) Maura takes the key and volunteers to activate the temple. This may have even been her main plan for trapping everyone. 2) Hans is a pretty causeless and mercenary individual who implies he wouldn't have even come to perform the duties of a brave if he weren't paid. 3) If he's so mercenary he won't save the world he himself lives in, who's to say he won't also just aid the demons for money. Speculatively: Maura's seal is real, and Hans's is fake. What this is missing though is a proper motivation for Maura. None of them aside from Hans (money) seem to have a motivation hinted at for hindering the braves that I recall.
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Aug 10, 2015 00:46
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darkgray posted:Er, the "unreliable narrator" device is present in some of my favourite mystery novels, so that seems a strange rule. The detective is the audience's window. If that window is dirty, how can we trust what we see through it? There are certainly a few authors capable of flaunting this rule, but the vast majority would do better to adhere to it. Also, the detective isn't necessarily the narrator. Let's say Adlet is the culprit. We've seen what happened at the shrine through his eyes. We've listened to his thoughts and experienced his memories. We've spent more time over his shoulder than anyone else's. For him to be the culprit, he or the show would actively need to withhold information from the audience, which isn't playing fair. NowonSA posted:1. I think given how he appears to have been framed you can assume that Adlet is not the culprit, and will be serving as the detective in this mystery. I hesitate to just come out and say he isn't because I love hearing the crazy ideas that involve him being complicit. NowonSA posted:2. Hmm... we get pretty close to this actually, but I'm sure the audience can have at least some idea on what methods the culprit used. You won't be seeing a magic teleportation Saint or anything that just completely breaks the information/clues you're using to solve the case. NowonSA posted:3. I'm quite confident you'll see every clue, but you may not know a clue when you see it. NowonSA posted:4. This is trickier since Adlet's basically solving a mystery while in the middle of a war zone, and also relying on on-the-fly interrogations to try to figure stuff out. You should get a signal either through Adlet's dialogue or his thoughts that he's pretty drat sure he knows who the seventh is, but in this stressful situation even he is probably not going to be 100% sure. NowonSA posted:What Adlet sees, does, and thinks is the truth as he sees it in that moment. NowonSA posted:Also, you may want to think of this as two separate mysteries:
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Aug 10, 2015 01:05
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I think the seventh is Nash based on a few things. 1. She's fuckin weird and has bunny ears nobody else has bunny ears?? 2. If she were a Brave, then if the myth is that engraved in the show's society, why would the guards be attempting to stop her from leaving in Episode 1? Even though Adlet IS a criminal, they're clearly attempting to stop both of them, and Nash is trampling her own people with wild abandon. 3. The earlier fake-fog theory I outlined. 4. She's fuckin weird and has bunny ears nobody else has bunny ears??
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Aug 10, 2015 01:18
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As far as suspects go, I think Adlet, Flamie, Chamot, and Goldov definitely didn't do anything. If anyone is not the seventh and isn't on the up-and-up, it's Maura. I don't think she's the seventh, but she's obviously not telling the whole truth about something- my read is that she actually does thing Adlet did it but isn't telling everyone everything because there's something that contradicts that that she's ignoring. Hans is suspicious as balls but he owns so I don't suspect him.
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Aug 10, 2015 01:20
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Bad Seafood posted:Yeah, this is what I was most worried about. Rokka explicitly takes place in a world that operates on magic. What I'm looking for is assurance that this Saint of Teleportation doesn't exist, or whatever it might be. You won't see magic that isn't established as a thing used as part of the mystery. With that said, there's already a lot of crazy magic and skills that we've seen or heard about, so there's still a lot of possibilities. I mostly bring up the idea of separating the mysteries because it's entirely possible to come up with a reasonable solution to the barrier mystery, only to realize that anywhere from 2-7 braves could have reasonably pulled it off. The perfect solution should explain everything and only be able to be pulled off by one person. Adlet's trying to find that perfect solution, because if he can't provide a clear method and proof that a specific someone did it he's going to literally be killed. alcharagia posted:I think the seventh is Nash based on a few things. 1. I think she's just wearing them, let a woman accessorize. 2. From what I remember they're just cruising along with her until she busts out Adlet. She controls her swords drat well too, doesn't skewer anyone but cuts out all the supports, so it's not exactly wild abandon. And Brave myth or not, their sworn duty is to protect her, and she's running off on her own isntead of waiting for her not-boyfriend protector or an armed military escort. It would have been interesting, however, to see how things would've played out if she went through conventional channels upon becoming a brave and if Adlet started yelling at the guard bringing his food that he was a brave and showed off his crest. The research team can go back and confirm how it all went down though, I'm just going from memory. 3. I've already taken my pass at this, I won't give it a double skewering :P. I will point out that the only way I see that theory pointing towards Nash is the fact that she sent Adlet ahead towards the temple, which could have been a coincidence. It certainly seemed organic in the moment. 4. FASHION. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Aug 10, 2015 |
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Aug 10, 2015 01:23
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Riura isn't a Brave. 
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Aug 10, 2015 01:26
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alcharagia posted:I think the seventh is Nash based on a few things. Pretty sure the bunny ears is a headband. Some of the Braves just have animal-like features. Hans has his cat thing. Goldov has his helmet with ram's horns. Nash has a bunny ears headband. And Adlet is obviously the most dangerous animal of them all - man. Also the leaving thing is more about ceremonies, I think? Pretty sure they were yelling about how she should meet the king before she leaves. The light novel has a much more subdued escape - Adlet is just in a regular prison cell and Nash just uses frees him using the keys to his cell, if I remember correctly. The old dude and the soldiers don't get dropped into a pit.
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Aug 10, 2015 01:35
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Kylra posted:Also, there is the possibility that an actual brave is also a traitor for either part of this whodunit. I don't think that has been ruled out. Unlikely. Remember the argument that Adlet used to save Flamie from Nash and Goldov when they suspected her of being a traitor: "The goddess of fate chose her, see, Flamie, show them your tattoo. So she has to want to kill the Demon King" (paraphrased as well as I can remember), which was accepted by both of them. As far as an actual Brave having triggered the barrier, either out of a misunderstanding, or curiosity, or as an accident or whatever else, that cannot be ruled out.
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Aug 10, 2015 01:52
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Kytrarewn posted:Unlikely. Remember the argument that Adlet used to save Flamie from Nash and Goldov when they suspected her of being a traitor: "The goddess of fate chose her, see, Flamie, show them your tattoo. So she has to want to kill the Demon King" (paraphrased as well as I can remember), which was accepted by both of them. And there's nothing to say that there is a troublemaker among the group who will still yet try to defeat the demon king after this snafu is resolved. Flamie was killing potential braves and weakening the brave pool when she got her mark, remember. Kytrarewn posted:As far as an actual Brave having triggered the barrier, either out of a misunderstanding, or curiosity, or as an accident or whatever else, that cannot be ruled out. Kylra fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Aug 10, 2015 |
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Aug 10, 2015 02:20
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Possibilities: -The initial fog was Chamot doing her swamp thing (the barrier wasn't up yet). -The info they got from Fort Human was actually from Fort Doppelganger. -The seal had already been broken somewhere other than the door (tunneling like Adlet suggested), but the armor guards were held in check (no match for the intruder) while he/she placed the sword in the dais, and patched up the escape route. When the door opens up, the armor comes running, but not necessarily at Adlet. Then the barrier is established after they've all gathered by say... someone smashing the tablet while shouting about being "Saint of the barrier" or some such... -Hans is probably not a villain. He stepped aside to let Adlet and hostage through. Granted he immediately followed with a knife to the back, it still seems like standing his ground would have been the win-win for him as a villain. And can you tell I've been waiting for this? 
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Aug 10, 2015 03:05
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After watching this episode, something that stood out to me was how Flamie (I think) remarked how that shape shifting fiend should not have that close to the temple because of the seals and barriers. It could lend credence to the temple the braves were at being a fake. I have two theories of my own on how the barrier was activated but not who the fake is. One is that there is a new breed of hybrid fiends that are distinctively different from Flamie (so her declaration that she is the only one of her kind may be technically correct) but are able to bypass most specific anti-fiend measures. The shape shifter tricks Adlet into opening the temple doors and in the ensuing confusion between the attacking temple guards and the shape shifter running off, another hybrid sneaks in and activates the barrier. It's pretty plausible given for everyone is already so surprised at the fiends displaying new behavior (although that may be only because of the talking shape shifter) and Flamie could have been an early experiment to get around anti-fiend measures. It's also possible that Flamie's mother was subject to more experimentation and suffering which could give her a reason to want to kill the demon king. Although that's assuming that Flamie has human values and emotions. My other theory is that shape shifter may not have been a fiend at all and would not be affected by the anti-fiend measures. That got me into thinking about a spoiler that I had read pertaining to a certain character's powers, past, and personality that makes this theory possible. Given that not everyone's powers have been revealed yet, I won't say more other than that whoever or whatever activated the barrier (other than Adlet) may have been still present in the room when everyone else arrived but remained hidden. (This could apply to the former theory.) Also, trapping the braves to stop their advance on the demon king wasn't the assailant's intention. However, I don't know the extent of the character's power and to what degree and precision it can work so this may not hold water. If the latter theory plays out like I think it will, both theories have the narrative effect of not needing to immediately reveal or kill the fake brave at the conclusion of this arc. As to whether either is good story telling I can't say since I'm not really a story writer.
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Aug 12, 2015 02:15
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My theory is that the girl who can telekineticly move knives had something to do with moving the knife in the locked room. Also that the girl who hates her father king of whatsitcalled land is helping the things who are going to go destroy whatsitcalled land. Maybe also that the girl who destroyed the on-off pad wants the pad to stay on. What I'm saying is it's definitely Flamie. PS: Flamie Speeddraw is probably the worst anime name I've ever heard.
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Aug 12, 2015 06:19
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Pavlov posted:PS: Flamie Speeddraw is probably the worst anime name I've ever heard.  ?
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Aug 12, 2015 06:22
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I don't know any of the names from that.
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Aug 12, 2015 06:31
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...The dragon's name is Flamie.
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Aug 12, 2015 06:46
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See what I'm saying is that Flamie should give Adlet, Hans, and Chamot a piggyback ride once this is all over. Edit: Goldov is too dour to have fun with piggyback rides. Maura is the police chief so she'd have to turn in her own badge and gun. Nash will be off in the Evil Cave plotting Nefarious Nash Plots, because she's evil. Kinu Nishimura fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 06:48
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Pavlov posted:PS: Flamie Speeddraw is probably the worst anime name I've ever heard. She's Fremy in the LN translation, though it does sound like Flamie in the anime. Maura is also Mara and Chamot is Chamo in the LN translation I read, for those curious. Also, Speeddraw is a straight-up Trigun name and that automatically makes it cool  .Edward IV posted:After watching this episode, something that stood out to me was how Flamie (I think) remarked how that shape shifting fiend should not have that close to the temple because of the seals and barriers. It could lend credence to the temple the braves were at being a fake. I have two theories of my own on how the barrier was activated but not who the fake is. I won't get into details, but information from later chapters in the LN makes your first theory plausible despite multiple people saying the Salt Pillars are an impenetrable barrier against demons. Everyone's sure that no demon could get past the pillars, but they were also sure there were no hybrids like Flamie and that doppelganger sure seemed to surprise Adlet, who has learned almost everything that humans know about demons. On the other hand, Flamie knows more about demons than Adlet does and she says it's impossible. Your second theory has me curious as hell though, I can't quite pin down who you're talking about, though I think I have a pretty good guess. I'll ask this instead, if the assailant's intention wasn't to trap the braves and stop their advance, what was their intention? To kill the Braves while they are trapped? Anyway, all of this has intrigued me more than usual, so please fill me in on what you were thinking once all the episodes have aired, or just reveal as much as you can without entering spoiler territory. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 07:17
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If you're wondering about the names, the LNs have the English spelling in the character illustrations. The names are Adlet, Nashetania, Fremy, Goldof, Chamo, Hans, and Mora.
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Aug 12, 2015 07:25
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Speeddraw is a totally sweet last name.
Bad Seafood fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 07:30
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I love names that are compound words.
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Aug 12, 2015 07:39
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I love hearing the japanese say FLAYMEE SUPEEDULAA~ Edit: You can edit your posts Seafood, but you can't edit your heartttttttt~~ Pavlov fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 07:49
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NowonSA posted:Your second theory has me curious as hell though, I can't quite pin down who you're talking about, though I think I have a pretty good guess. I'll ask this instead, if the assailant's intention wasn't to trap the braves and stop their advance, what was their intention? To kill the Braves while they are trapped? I'll elaborate more to say that I suspect either Maura or Chamot activated the barrier because their powers have yet to be revealed and demonstrated. This theory works on the assumption that one of them has the ability to activate the barrier without being seen and allow them to re-enter the temple normally after the barrier has been activated to deflect suspicion. Also assuming the barrier activation sequence we're told is correct, a physical presence to place the sword and touch the tablet and being able to speak are necessary to activate the barrier which discounts Nashetania from at least this particular theory. The nature of this power also makes something they said when they were first introduced highly suspect which gives me confidence in this theory. I cannot say what this line was since it directly relates to that power and may not seem suspicious taken on its own. As for their true intention, I'll say revenge against one of the other braves. I can't elaborate further because it's information on their past that yet to be revealed.
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Aug 12, 2015 14:55
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I feel like their is no way to guess the solution to this locked room puzzle as Adlet spends more then a sufficient amount of time fighting, looking the wrong way, and generally being distracted for the majority of our cast to have gotten by him with out his notice, and that's without factoring in any of the magic powers the majority of the cast has access to.
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Aug 12, 2015 15:23
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Edward IV posted:I'll elaborate more to say that I suspect either Maura or Chamot activated the barrier because their powers have yet to be revealed and demonstrated. This theory works on the assumption that one of them has the ability to activate the barrier without being seen and allow them to re-enter the temple normally after the barrier has been activated to deflect suspicion. Also assuming the barrier activation sequence we're told is correct, a physical presence to place the sword and touch the tablet and being able to speak are necessary to activate the barrier which discounts Nashetania from at least this particular theory. The nature of this power also makes something they said when they were first introduced highly suspect which gives me confidence in this theory. I cannot say what this line was since it directly relates to that power and may not seem suspicious taken on its own. Hmm, alright. Give me the full theory once the season's wrapped up  .
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Aug 12, 2015 20:26
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Innocent: Adlet +MC Flamie +Turned against Demons Suspicious: Nash +No known motivation -Freakout / Weirdness -Didn't get shown getting her mark when the sky went for Adlet -Told Adlet to go on ahead cus ??? (Ask for backup?) -Can move blades Goldov +Seems to have no powers/Brute -Hates Adlet -Attacked Adlet out of rage Chamot +Too one tracked/childish -Only one not to travel in a group -Ambiguous power (Swamps are known to be foggy?) -Really wants to kill Flamie -Mark in weird spot (Not upperbody) Chester +Most Established (In Universe) -Didn't know about several things she should've known -Did the most questioning -Replaced Sun Saint who "disappeared" -Mark in weird spot (not on the front of body) / asked to see Hans mark instead of showing him hers when checking on Flamie -Power most related? Hans +"Too Obvious" -Most capable -Really gunned for Adlet being the 7th Kild fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 21:19
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A sensible list, I'll just add in a few minuses. Flamie +Turned against Demons +"Too Obvious" -Half Demon -Raised from birth to aid the demon cause -Has killed multiple human saints Everyone -Could be lying about anything they say that isn't verified by at least one other Brave. This includes their own backstories. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 21:55
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Flamie + Rockin' eyepatch
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Aug 12, 2015 21:57
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Flamie - Doesn't know how shirts work Goldov gets this too
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Aug 12, 2015 22:08
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Goldov has the best shirt.
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Aug 12, 2015 22:10
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Unisex boob strap
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Aug 12, 2015 22:12
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so stylish!
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Aug 12, 2015 22:12
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:The names are Adlet, Nashetania, Fremy, Goldof, Chamo, Hans, and Mora. I wish they had gone with Framey. Just thinking about the past two episodes of dialog with it...  I can't help but wonder if Nash's whole combat-character design is based on some dude (group of dudes) banking on this becoming popular and the subsequent cosplay. Ferretts fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Aug 13, 2015 |
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Aug 13, 2015 00:13
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I've tried to avoid spoilers, but I can't help myself here: All the braves are designed as cosplay bait. I actually like Maura's outfit the most in that respect, since it's basically just clothes and something someone could actually pull off. The hardest to do accurately is Adlet's, because you need dozens of pouches with various gadgets and a monstrously huge hairdo.
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Aug 13, 2015 04:48
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NowonSA posted:I've tried to avoid spoilers, but I can't help myself here: All the braves are designed as cosplay bait.
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Aug 13, 2015 04:51
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Bad Seafood posted:I am having a hard time thinking of any light novel where this was not the case. Seitokai no Ichizon?
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Aug 13, 2015 19:40
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This week's Rokka episode is out, everyone quickly go watch it so I can respond to wild theories and whatnot.
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Aug 15, 2015 21:20
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No. I'm done making theories for you Nowon. I'm turning in my badge and doing this my way from now on. Pure. Gut. Feeling.
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Aug 15, 2015 21:45
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Really enjoying the show so far, I went in expecting standard action stuff but ended up with some sort of closed room mystery thriller. Is there much other anime out there like this? Specifically the mystery with a protagonist and audience trying to figure out which suspect did it.
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Aug 15, 2015 22:09
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Detective Conan. Alternatively, if you're not afraid of visual novels: Umineko no Naku Koro ni.
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Aug 15, 2015 22:13
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Umineko, I guess? The anime adaption wasn't very good though. e: beaten
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Aug 15, 2015 22:16
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