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Apparently they had some poor girl officially dress up as Nashetania at Comiket.
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Aug 15, 2015 22:23
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Tamba posted:Umineko, I guess? The anime adaption wasn't very good though. Do not watch the anime.
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Aug 15, 2015 22:30
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Kylra posted:No. I'm done making theories for you Nowon. I'm turning in my badge and doing this my way from now on. Pure. Gut. Feeling. Alright, who does your gut say is the seventh then?
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Aug 15, 2015 22:31
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I suppose it's too much to wish that Hans gets a sword pommel to the voice box. You know... hard enough to keep him from speaking for the rest of the show. Mixed feelings about that fiend flashback. It speaking was a surprise, which is always welcome, but I was hoping Adlet's idiot friend would die horribly. "I'm going to fight him!"... Really Mora? Splitting them up? This might have been cool if Chamot pushed back hard. I like the idea of her being such a dangerously powerful child that Mora would bend to her whims out of fear. But instead it comes off as dumb. Here's a run through of character sketch levels: Nash isn't convinced by the "rock solid" proof against Adlet, which makes sense. Flamie is mostly sold, but is holding out for certainty. This also makes sense. Chamot is acting like the warped kid she probably would be. So it's hard to pick out anything suspicious from her in general. She's acting... normally abnormal. Goldov is a twit who would kill on a personal grudge justified through mob logic veiled as honor and reason. It's not particularly bright or admirable, but nor out of character. Adlet seems like he's done everything an innocent person would do, except maybe testifying about his back being turned for as long as it was. Hans is quick to condemn Adlet, but he's an assassin whose trade and eccentricities make him sketchy in general. Nothing suspicious about him wanting to be alone and stand guard. Mora... she's the only one (along with Flamie and Nash) who should not be utterly sold on Adlet being a traitor. Her letting Hans and Chamot split up is odd as hell (unless motivated by fear like I mentioned before). So as far as first impressions of the episode go... Mora is the only one I noticed acting sketchy.
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Aug 15, 2015 22:31
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I mean it makes sense that Mora is not worried about Chamot's personal safety. But she's quick to trust Hans has what it takes to beat Adlet. In other news, the way Nash spoke to Goldov was sketchy as hell imo. She's testing how unconditional his loyalty is- and to his slight credit, she finds he won't just do anything for her without good reason.
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Aug 15, 2015 22:42
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Valkrye posted:Is there much other anime out there like this? Specifically the mystery with a protagonist and audience trying to figure out which suspect did it. Haven't actually watched it, because I eventually plan on reading the books, but Gosick should be this kind of thing. Then there's the classic Kindaichi, where people die gruesome deaths all over the place, while we're trying to figure out who's the culprit. October should have similar stuff with Subete ga F ni Naru, if you want newer shows. What I saw of the terrible jdrama adaptation was very whodunit, at least.
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Aug 15, 2015 22:45
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Gosick is definitely a mystery show, although it goes for a lot of cute factor with its genius little girl character. Its mysteries and character histories can get pretty dark, and the whole thing is set in a fictional country right before WW1 or WW2, I can't quite remember (my gut says 1). I liked it quite a bit, I'd certainly rank it above your average Detective Conan episode.
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Aug 15, 2015 22:53
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Lestaki posted:In other news, the way Nash spoke to Goldov was sketchy as hell imo. She's testing how unconditional his loyalty is- and to his slight credit, she finds he won't just do anything for her without good reason. Not sketchy. The mob is calling for Adlet's head. Nash thinks he's innocent. Probing to see if Goldov could be relied on to help clear his name seems reasonable given their background. It's what I would do in her place.
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Aug 15, 2015 22:54
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It's also exactly what you'd do if you were Princess Bunny the Seventh Brave. The mob is after Adlet regardless of her words, so there's nothing to lose by testing the degree of Goldov's loyalty to her now. Hard to say which one it is but I didn't like her tone. Also Adlet is really pushing 'the guy who activated the temple =! the traitor brave', which I guess is a reasonable possibility.
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Aug 15, 2015 23:01
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Also, Hans is rapidly proving himself to be one of the smartest, sneakiest guys on the team. In other words, a pretty big problem if you do happen to be the rogue Brave. Adlet, by contrast, is way more tractable, has incredibly obvious levers, and is a hilariously bad detective. I know which one I'd want to get rid of first.
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Aug 15, 2015 23:13
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On another note, the monstrous demonic ambassador with an unhealthy fondness for ripping out hearts introduces himself to the village he's about to blackmail by tipping his fedora. This loving show.
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Aug 15, 2015 23:39
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When it panned up on him I was like...wait, what is it wearing?
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Aug 15, 2015 23:40
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Lestaki posted:Also Adlet is really pushing 'the guy who activated the temple =! the traitor brave', which I guess is a reasonable possibility. Which is getting more likely now that they've made a big point that there are a bunch of humans loyal to the demon god who supposedly live nearby. The obvious point of this whole scenario is to get the braves to kill each other because the demons don't think they can do it themselves. The 7th might not even have been involved in activating the barrier. They just need to be present so that the other braves have a reason to suspect/kill their own. If there were the correct number of braves, they would probably suspect an outside agent first, and spend their time looking for one. Actually I'm surprised Flamie didn't bring up all the human followers of the demon god when they were wondering if a fiend could activate the barrier. She is pretty dense though. PS: I'm glad it looks like Hans is going to be the first to be bumped nyaaaaaaaaan because he is super annoying to listen to nyahahaha.
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Aug 15, 2015 23:44
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Ferretts posted:Not sketchy. The mob is calling for Adlet's head. Nash thinks he's innocent. Probing to see if Goldov could be relied on to help clear his name seems reasonable given their background. It's what I would do in her place. Darth Walrus posted:Also, Hans is rapidly proving himself to be one of the smartest, sneakiest guys on the team. In other words, a pretty big problem if you do happen to be the rogue Brave. Adlet, by contrast, is way more tractable, has incredibly obvious levers, and is a hilariously bad detective. I know which one I'd want to get rid of first. Lestaki posted:It's also exactly what you'd do if you were Princess Bunny the Seventh Brave. The mob is after Adlet regardless of her words, so there's nothing to lose by testing the degree of Goldov's loyalty to her now. Hard to say which one it is but I didn't like her tone. I'll also go ahead and point out that Princess bunny ears said she didn't hear the commotion at the temple. Those ears must be able to hear for miles, Nash is confirmed as the seventh  .Darth Walrus posted:On another note, the monstrous demonic ambassador with an unhealthy fondness for ripping out hearts introduces himself to the village he's about to blackmail by tipping his fedora. This loving show. Pavlov posted:Which is getting more likely now that they've made a big point that there are a bunch of humans loyal to the demon god who supposedly live nearby. The obvious point of this whole scenario is to get the braves to kill each other because the demons don't think they can do it themselves. The 7th might not even have been involved in activating the barrier. They just need to be present so that the other braves have a reason to suspect/kill their own. If there were the correct number of braves, they would probably suspect an outside agent first, and spend their time looking for one. Hans will Nyaaaaaver die  .
NowonSA fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Aug 15, 2015 |
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Aug 15, 2015 23:48
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Everything Burrito posted:When it panned up on him I was like...wait, what is it wearing? "Human rights? No, no, I'm an equalist. All the rape, murder, and slavery is bad, yes, and maybe going on about 'filthy humans' is a little indelicate, but we really need to talk about the disadvantages fiends have in a pan-species society. Would you care to hear about my collection of rage comics on the subject while we're heading to the Land of Howling Demons, m'lady?"
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Aug 15, 2015 23:51
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PPS: It was still totally Nash though.
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Aug 15, 2015 23:53
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darkgray posted:Haven't actually watched it, because I eventually plan on reading the books, but Gosick should be this kind of thing. Thanks for this and the other suggestions! I remember watching a few episodes of Gosick when it first came out but got put off by how mind blowingly obvious the solutions were for the first few episodes. I'm guessing it picks up later on? My money is on Nash for seventh. It seemed like she heard the fight going on the same as Goldov but chose to ignore, maybe to let Hans kill Adlet?
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Aug 16, 2015 00:06
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I think Gosick has a geck-ending problem of where the plot doesn't make sense about half way through. As for Rokka I'm really not sure what's going on. 
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Aug 16, 2015 00:22
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I liked Gosick but more as a romance than for any of the mystery aspects. I'd kinda hoped for more...progress with this episode. It was nice to get some more backstory on Adlet and Flamie but I was hoping this would be the episode that gave something definitive re: who the seventh is. I can't really say that I'm leaning toward any of the characters being the traitor now more than I was last week.
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Aug 16, 2015 00:25
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Everything Burrito posted:I liked Gosick but more as a romance than for any of the mystery aspects. Well, we've had lots of talking for the past several episodes, so expect things to get much more action-packed from here on out. Don't expect too many more clues, but do expect suspects to be narrowed down. Not a whole lot of notable differences from the LN this week, by the way. I expect to have a lot to say about next week's episode though. Edit: Adlet's teacher is a more extreme version of All-Star Batman, in case that wasn't obvious. Basically Batman if he was a complete rear end in a top hat. Adlet is still able to smile and seems well-adjusted after losing his closest family and being beaten daily by a psychopath for years. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 00:29
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My idea of what demon land is like is getting more and more warped. They're introduced as mindless murderous insert enemies in unpleasantly jarring CG. Then they talk and transform. Then they abduct and sustain human populations and give birth to half-breeds so they can have their own saint. Now they have negotiating leaders/ambassadors, disappointed parents and play games as children with friends and puppies apparently? I'd be curious as hell to see a day in the life of Camp Demon aside from the awful CG. I'm trying to think of ways this scenario could work as a cooperative espionage effort among allied braves. Mostly because I'm a sucker for developments like that, but I can't remember an opportunity for Nash and Adlet to foresee an issue and prep for it... And now I'm doomed to brainstorm all the possible brave combos that may have conspired well before the temple if they expected something might go wrong on arrival.
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Aug 16, 2015 00:49
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the LN is better at showing that depth to the Fiends from the start. several of the basic ones they fight have the ability to speak, and even before Adlet meets the shapeshifting one it's mentioned that humanoid/transforming Fiends exist
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Aug 16, 2015 00:57
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NowonSA posted:Well, you'd need a human follower able to sneak in and out of the temple in the brief window where Adlet isn't looking. They also need to know how to perform the ritual, and complete it during that same small window. Oh, and they need to be completely converted to your cause and the utter betrayal of humanity, though if you're threatening their family that would probably get the job done. The fog appears at almost the same time the temple opens, so unless they have a slave who's faster than Hans it's unlikely. If the demons do have a way around those issues though, it'd be juicy as hell if the human they got to do it is Adlet's adoptive sister. I assumed loyalty is what the "Bring me the hearts of your dissenters!" bit was for. Also I was thinking, why didn't they guys at the fort tell the braves how to turn the barrier off? It seems so obvious if they're preparing them to turn it on. I guess that's a point for 'mass doppelganger' theory.
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Aug 16, 2015 01:05
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Ferretts posted:My idea of what demon land is like is getting more and more warped. They're introduced as mindless murderous insert enemies in unpleasantly jarring CG. Then they talk and transform. Then they abduct and sustain human populations and give birth to half-breeds so they can have their own saint. Now they have negotiating leaders/ambassadors, disappointed parents and play games as children with friends and puppies apparently? I'd be curious as hell to see a day in the life of Camp Demon aside from the awful CG. I don't know how you'd really foresee and plan for a seventh brave scenario. It's literally never happened until now, and it's not like you can set up a passphrase or something like you could if someone was imitating an existing brave (Two Adlets show up at the temple). The closest scenario to that I could see is Adlet dropping off a message for Nash before he took off, but if he did that we haven't seen it. Pavlov posted:I assumed loyalty is what the "Bring me the hearts of your dissenters!" bit was for. I thought they told them how to turn off the barrier, but I may be remembering wrong. Something for my crack research team to confirm I guess. According to Maura whoever turned the barrier on can turn it off at will, so it might just be a mental command once you've done it. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 01:11
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Ok here's my crack theory: Nash is converted to the demon side during/after her father tries to kill her (probs by fedora demon). Uses the hate of her father to convince her demons are the good guys, will make a better world. Nash becomes real/fake brave. All according to keikaku. Demons kill all the people in the border fort, replace them with doppelgangers. Doppelgangers tell everyone the wrong way to activate the barrier, but tell Nash the right one. That way it can only get activated in a way advantageous to the demons. During fighting near the temple, Nash sees an opportunity and sends off Adlet. Tricking him into opening the temple. Nash activates the barrier remotely using knife telekinesis. She doesn't need to touch the tablet because that was a doppelganger lie. Adlet somehow still knows the correct way to turn off the barrier though, so Nash throws a tantrum to destroy the tablet. If she hadn't then she would have been discovered if Adlet tried having everyone do the same. Maybe she replaced the instructions after she knocked them off too idk. Destroying the tablet means Nash can't deactivate the barrier through normal means, so even if she lives she is trapped there. This is ok to her though because she is fine 'sleeping on the ground' for the rest of her life if it means making a better world. PS: I hope you have all enjoyed my spending too much time thinking about an anime.
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Aug 16, 2015 01:36
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You aren't even in the top 3 people thinking too much about this show Pavlov, don't worry. As for the theory, I've already given my arguments against most of its parts, and I won't repeat myself. If you were Adlet telling this to the group though, I don't think I'd side with sparing your life.
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Aug 16, 2015 01:44
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NowonSA posted:You aren't even in the top 3 people thinking too much about this show Pavlov, don't worry. IRL I wouldn't side with it either because it is dumb and needlessly complex. This is an anime though so the answer is probably going to be both of those things.
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Aug 16, 2015 01:47
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Do the doors only stay open if they've been opened improperly? That's what someone said, right?
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Aug 16, 2015 02:19
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Parallax posted:Do the doors only stay open if they've been opened improperly? That's what someone said, right? they stay open when opened, regardless.
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Aug 16, 2015 03:40
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Is there actually a fake one or is it gonna be haha we fooled you there's now 7 because reasons even though it was stated it's always 6 and can only be 6? With Nash naming Hans he's cleared cus its anime. Chamot is probably clear since she's basically got the mind of a toddler. Goldov is probably clear unless they break his character which only and entirely revolves around Nash away from her. Flamie clear ofc. Nash clear cus she wouldn't try to save Adlet. Better play would be Adlet dying a petal is gone and Goldov gets sicced on someone else or whatever. Though I guess that banks on me thinking she'd earnestly try to save him and not just spread doubt but it wouldn't really matter either way since Goldov would protect her/follow her pretty much regardless. So its not like she'd need "credibility" with a "See I told you so" when she already told us so before Adlet left. That leaves Chester I guess but that seems too easy idk. She actually hasn't given any info about herself other than she works with saints and took over from the sun saint. She seems to be the least in control of the situation. Think Flamie was some last moment +1 from the Flower Goddess or whatever. The Brand was to show her loyalty and doesn't actually have any real powers/protection like the rest since she's a half breed she doesn't need it. Also if you HAVE to do it exactly like the guards said I feel like there's actually not enough information to solve this without a gotcha as well. Though with the Demon scene I think the remaining guards could've been bought/persuaded by one of the Fiends. Kild fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 05:22
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there are only six Braves. i still feel Hans, Nash, and Maura are all pretty suspicious in their own ways, and Flamie could believably 180.
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Aug 16, 2015 05:31
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dogsicle posted:there are only six Braves. i still feel Hans, Nash, and Maura are all pretty suspicious in their own ways, and Flamie could believably 180. That'd be a gotcha with Flamie, Hans is so obvious that even Nash went for him so I extremely doubt its him. Nash acts strange but I don't think thats enough to say she's a fake/traitor. Other than her saying go on ahead, her freakout which could be understandable since she's a complete novice to this stuff, and people thinking her hair being fashioned to look like bunny ears means she should have super hearing she hasn't done anything to indicate it. Maura is plausible but again they've given us too little info on her past and it requires Chamot being in on it. Anyway I think the Guards were bought by the demons and Adlet was the one who actually did do the 'ritual' and somehow the stand at that temple is linked to the one they're currently stuck at somehow. Kild fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 05:36
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the seventh brave isn't necessarily whoever activated the barrier. it's possible there are seven braves but one of the actual braves is the traitor. this is probably only the case though if adlet is the seventh brave (with the whole strangely demonic way he was made one and all)
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Aug 16, 2015 05:39
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anyways, it won't be chamot, hans, adlet or flammie just because none of them feel right. especially not adlet and flammie at this point. it's probably maura. that's my gut
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Aug 16, 2015 05:40
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Cake Attack posted:anyways, it won't be chamot, hans, adlet or flammie just because none of them feel right. especially not adlet and flammie at this point. If there HAS to be a fake/traitor it's her. My gut feelings going into this was all 7 are real or that Chester is the fake and that has been holding up.
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Aug 16, 2015 05:43
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Kild posted:Anyway I think the Guards were bought by the demons and Adlet was the one who actually did do the 'ritual' and somehow the stand at that temple is linked to the one they're currently stuck at somehow.  that totally makes sense
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Aug 16, 2015 05:43
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So Adlet 'fake' did the ritual and no one else from what we've saw. Why exactly is there even a replica to demonstrate something as simple as put the sword in the hole and say the word. Nash tells Adlet to go on ahead? Why? The Guards probably told her that Adlet had to go on ahead/be first? She freaked out because she hosed up and caused this by listening to the guards? Though Adlet did try to undo it but that doesn't mean he tried to undo it proper. It'd also explain why it opened up for him. Also why are they waiting at the that temple and not at this temple. The guards also all direct them there. If the guards were the ones to activate it why are either the Guards not waiting at that temple or sitting with the braves preferably at this guarded temple. e: Rewatching that part its so they're already in the land of howling demons then locking the exit + entrance. Though I don't know why they'd not all wait at the first temple then they all move out together? Kild fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 05:47
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Kild posted:Nash clear cus she wouldn't try to save Adlet. Better play would be Adlet dying a petal is gone and Goldov gets sicced on someone else or whatever. Though I guess that banks on me thinking she'd earnestly try to save him and not just spread doubt but it wouldn't really matter either way since Goldov would protect her/follow her pretty much regardless. So its not like she'd need "credibility" with a "See I told you so" when she already told us so before Adlet left. I dunno, since everyone already thinks Adlet is the fake, it'd probably benefit the actual fake to keep him alive to keep everyone's attention on him. They could probably even go around killing people and saying he did it, like Adlet mentioned in the episode.
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Aug 16, 2015 05:58
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TWIST FIST posted:I dunno, since everyone already thinks Adlet is the fake, it'd probably benefit the actual fake to keep him alive to keep everyone's attention on him. They could probably even go around killing people and saying he did it, like Adlet mentioned in the episode. If Adlet dies and a petal is lost Chamot is probably going to murder Flamie no matter what Chester says. And if not Flamie probably Hans or even both. Then when she dies and a petal is lost they're going after Chamot. I think thats a stronger plan that maybe catching someone off guard cus you got a chance. Then its a number advantage for Nash since Goldov is basically going to do whatever she says. Though that also assumes killing them is better than delaying them which would make sense unless we're missing something. Since she was kind of allied with Goldov Flamie and Adlet and no one in that group would be likely to suspect each other outside of Goldov maybe suspecting Flamie. Her best play for her to cast either Chamot, Chester or Flamie as the 7th instead of Adlet. Though that assumes they had some say/sway in who actually got framed and they're trying to make the best move. Chamot being the strongest would be the best to take out first. Chester being framed would mean you can probably take out Chamot too. Flamie would mean you'd take out Adlet with her and probably Nash + Goldov too. Also Chamot would probably be the one who killed Flamie and she'd be next for consideration. Kild fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 06:28
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I like the remote activation theory, the people at the fort said other braves had been there but we didn't see it, so we can't be sure. You'd need a reason for it to take a long time for the fog to start up though, the temple isn't that powerful if you can trigger it and the enemy has hours to move into the area or out of the area. If I can throw a guess out there at you, the remote ritual could "prime" the temple and then as soon as the seal is breached the fog triggers. This needs the people in the fort to be doppelgangers/traitors, but that's about it, so less effort than most other theories. Of course, it's an even shorter path if fort guys are liars and the temple is actually automatically activated by whoever breaks the seal. The problem with Adlet being an unwitting dupe is that he tries to dispel the barrier immediately, even going so far as to use his own blood. He certainly seemed to know what he was doing there. But if he's in on it that could be a false effort. As far as the seven braves all being legitimate braves, the braves are chosen by the goddess of fate, that's been solidly established. So even if the goddess decided that 7 were needed this time around, she opted to go with the one planning to trap them in the barrier. I guess it could be the most intense teambuilding exercise ever? On the other hand, if there are 7 legit braves then tricking one of them into triggering the barrier without their knowledge is an optimal play by the demons. In this case, they would have been planning to use the temple as a trap independent of how many braves there are. Trapping all the braves in there with no way for them to dispel it is basically a game over, they only have to defeat the Demon God within a certain number of days or it will fully revive. And one last 7 real braves thought, if there are seven then why not make the insignia different with 7 petals instead of 6? The forces of good gain nothing by not making the number of braves explicit, especially if you're changing up that number for the first time ever.
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Aug 16, 2015 06:52
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